why we didn't let anyone sleep in street before ( revolution )

Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#1
well, before the revolution of 1979 we had pretty much an area ( of all whore houses all together) .it was likea mini city in south part of tehran called share nu ( new city ) .as a matter of fact it was filty houses .each house inculded like 4,5,6 prostitues, one madam and about 3,4 guys working there .
that city had some music shopes .sandvich shopes, a restarunts and some other shopes .but the most important of all were the tea houses, which usually was bigger than normal .at end of day,or nite the timethe business was dying then all the homeless, the ones who sleeped in street had place to sleep .so the owner charged sitting sleeping like 50 cents and standing a quarter . any time some ofthem had no money if there were still place left then they could slept there .but they all had to sleep theirwith their back to the wall . in the morning th guy treated them with a hot tea before they leave .
it is just a memory .
 

LDPC

Bench Warmer
Dec 23, 2003
502
0
#2
I don't believe the situation was different before and after revolution. Not that what you are saying is incorrect but it is only part of the situation. The revolution didn't happen out of nowhere and because everyone was free and happy! In general in my opinion the totalitarian regimes are all similar in how they treat people and there is no difference when Shah was in power or Khomeini. Street beggers and sleepers were as many as it is now with the difference that the country was not that far behind as it is now and the distribution of world wide wealth had a balance towards oil rich nations like ours.
Now days with tripple number of people and staggering growth of technology based economies like US, EUROPE in general and South east asia the value of oil has declined in overall budget of the nations.

To compare in 1977 the GDP per capita of US was 7000$ and Iran few thousand and now it is 45K or more. We got poorer by neglecting technology and commerce after revolution and by not having normal contact with the world. May be a much smarter and word savvy person can put it in correct terms and explain more. Overall I hated to live under Shah and hate to live under Khomeini regime but living free in politically uneducated middle east is a chicken and egg problem. Whatever revolution happen in this country the overall tendency would be towards totalitarian regimes though our society is not ready for continuous check and balances that a democratic system requires.
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#3
I don't believe the situation was different before and after revolution. Not that what you are saying is incorrect but it is only part of the situation. The revolution didn't happen out of nowhere and because everyone was free and happy! In general in my opinion the totalitarian regimes are all similar in how they treat people and there is no difference when Shah was in power or Khomeini. Street beggers and sleepers were as many as it is now with the difference that the country was not that far behind as it is now and the distribution of world wide wealth had a balance towards oil rich nations like ours.
Now days with tripple number of people and staggering growth of technology based economies like US, EUROPE in general and South east asia the value of oil has declined in overall budget of the nations.

To compare in 1977 the GDP per capita of US was 7000$ and Iran few thousand and now it is 45K or more. We got poorer by neglecting technology and commerce after revolution and by not having normal contact with the world. May be a much smarter and word savvy person can put it in correct terms and explain more. Overall I hated to live under Shah and hate to live under Khomeini regime but living free in politically uneducated middle east is a chicken and egg problem. Whatever revolution happen in this country the overall tendency would be towards totalitarian regimes though our society is not ready for continuous check and balances that a democratic system requires.
If one looks at the picture globally, I hate to live under a religion or any other authority that blocks my thinking.

You were able to think and express yourself more and you had more freedom under shah's regime than the muslim PIGS regime so I preferred shah.
Plus i have this habit of not being an UNGRATEFUL SON OF A BITCH and also to open my eyes to the environment around me and when one sees their country is way ahead of where "it is supposed to be" in the world one feels pride.

people HAVE NOT BECOME A WORD SAVVY PERSON (whatever the fuck that is) because of this revolution, they have become that because of the telecommunication and the digital global village revolution.
please don't pretend that everyone in this forum is an idiot because we are not
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#4
The gov of Shah was dictator but a one that was willing to bend when pressure was applied. In another words, Shah was willing to do what it took to stay in power (after all, most do), but when time came, he was unwilling to kill masses to stay in power, like that of the Islam gov. The Islam gov in Iran mass killing of 1980s and killings after each protest, and during the protest is a good example. Islam gov will kill anyone or everyone to keep the Islam gov alive.

Islam gov took all social freedoms away. Under Shah they existed as in all civilized western countries.

The biggest diff is under shah, education and competence wee one of the most important things, and an educated had a good chance of moving up and working. Under Islam gov, it is Islam credentials and other things that matters. The most competent and educated are a threat and end up driving taxis.

Shah had created institutions to deal with corruptions and had been purging the corrupt and thiefs out of the system as much as possible. Under Islam gov, these inspections dissapeared and corruption is at the highest level. Add to that the power that each akhoond in their own areas have.

Shah's gov was moving with technology and advancement. If Shah was in poower, Iran would have been a hub of technology, like that of Israel, and Iran one of the most advanced in the world. Islam gov has put that to stop. Islam gov controls everything, even the speed of Internet, sites allowed, etc.. Islam gov stopped all interactions with other civilized western countries, so our educated tech guys have to drive taxes instead of building advance apps being used around the world.

The damage to Iran for the last 30 years have been tragic. This happend during the worst time to iran it could have happend. Not long before tech boom. I guess the choice of Islam in every country seem to set them back.
 

LDPC

Bench Warmer
Dec 23, 2003
502
0
#5
If one looks at the picture globally, I hate to live under a religion or any other authority that blocks my thinking.

people HAVE NOT BECOME A WORD SAVVY PERSON (whatever the fuck that is)
==> The phrase means: " some one who can put words together better than I do" and had nothing to do with revolution! or the text in general, your deduction on this phrase is completely wrong.

please don't pretend that everyone in this forum is an idiot because we are not
= There was nothing in the text to judge on anyone's intelligence and was solely one simple opinion

You were able to think and express yourself more and you had more freedom under shah's regime than the muslim PIGS regime so I preferred shah
==> I personally disagree, ask this from those who had prisoners in Shah regime as well including my own family.

UNGRATEFUL SON OF A BITCH
==> you can express your opinion in more civilized manner than above! if you want your opinion matter! If you had learned to speak in a free society then you wouldn't have needed to respond like what you have unless you are having a bad day! Calm down and give examples and express your opinion politely and I am ready to listen f you care. If you are under pressure and want to have a fight with someone you don't see or hear or has any influence on your life and would feel better doing so then go ahead and post more insult!

I expected more from you! I have seen you behave better before! Was it a bad day? or did you not read my post or understand its concept thoroughly?
 
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Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#6
the whole intention of that thread was ,one thing, people had hearts before .
there are poor or drug addicts everywhere in the world, had nothing to do with well-off a country it is about thereare people who can't handle the constant pressure of their lives ,looking for the reason to escape from themselves and society and realities .it is up to rest of a society no matter what to provide them a little affection even if it is not much .
don't let the member of a society to be detached .
however iran's revolution trully had least with poverty or anything like that .
 

LDPC

Bench Warmer
Dec 23, 2003
502
0
#7
however iran's revolution trully had least with poverty or anything like that .
I didn't get the last sentence, can you elaborate? Do you mean economy had nothing to do with revolution? If so then what in your opinion had the most impact and was the starter?

I believe economy was a major factor. During Shah's white revolution and the speed of the process. The inflation rose to 15% in very short time. This shocked the country as nobody was used to it. I believe Shah couldn't sell the hardship and the benefits to the people and the opposition including Khomeini grabbed the momentum and the opportunity. It spiraled to something that was not controllable.

I agree the theme of the first post had peoples affection in mind but the title was the thing I was addressing. If only Socialism in all sense was economical and implementable then I would have had no worries!
 
Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#8
since i had had witnessed from day one of people's protest then i came up with above statement .
in the begining, the crowd ( built up ) of movement were the midlle classes the people who mostley in fashionable dressing in street indicated that they are not begging for food or shelter .later on when because of uprising they had to open the prisons then the different groups of activists who opposed the shah for many years took over .the group of religious, lefty ,jebehe meli .the whole show turned to a different ball game . the banner it says the first freedom and democracy then after awhile the khomaine came to picture .they moved him from iraq to france and same time the banners changed freedom,democracy and ISLAMIC GOVERENMENT .
when that had happned many who started the peaceful movement left the crowd .the viloences had begun .then the regime had to confronted them .
however iran' revolution was not any similer to french or russian ( the pessant movement) revolution.
shah'illness definitely was a big factor aswell .the army and monrchist had no idea who should had taken over .prince reza pahalvi was young .the people didn't care too much for shour ra ye saltanat .
well ,this is best i am trying to give you an idea .
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#9
==> The phrase means: " some one who can put words together better than I do" and had nothing to do with revolution! or the text in general, your deduction on this phrase is completely wrong.


= There was nothing in the text to judge on anyone's intelligence and was solely one simple opinion


==> I personally disagree, ask this from those who had prisoners in Shah regime as well including my own family.


==> you can express your opinion in more civilized manner than above! if you want your opinion matter! If you had learned to speak in a free society then you wouldn't have needed to respond like what you have unless you are having a bad day! Calm down and give examples and express your opinion politely and I am ready to listen f you care. If you are under pressure and want to have a fight with someone you don't see or hear or has any influence on your life and would feel better doing so then go ahead and post more insult!

I expected more from you! I have seen you behave better before! Was it a bad day? or did you not read my post or understand its concept thoroughly?
I am sorry to say this but traitors should be segregated from society, i know prison is not the best solution... but what can you do with them....put them in an isolated island ... kill them like muslims do...?

One think is for sure that a lot more people NEEDED TO BE IN PRISON during shah's regime otherwise we would not be where we are right now (by we i mean Iran)
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#10
==> The phrase means: " some one who can put words together better than I do" and had nothing to do with revolution! or the text in general, your deduction on this phrase is completely wrong.


= There was nothing in the text to judge on anyone's intelligence and was solely one simple opinion


==> I personally disagree, ask this from those who had prisoners in Shah regime as well including my own family.


==> you can express your opinion in more civilized manner than above! if you want your opinion matter! If you had learned to speak in a free society then you wouldn't have needed to respond like what you have unless you are having a bad day! Calm down and give examples and express your opinion politely and I am ready to listen f you care. If you are under pressure and want to have a fight with someone you don't see or hear or has any influence on your life and would feel better doing so then go ahead and post more insult!

I expected more from you! I have seen you behave better before! Was it a bad day? or did you not read my post or understand its concept thoroughly?
count your lucky stars that shah was civilized enough to put your family members in prison.

mine and many million other family members were assassinated by your revolutionary forces, tortured, and left to die simply because they loved Iran. mind you, not loved COMMUNIST RUSSIA or HAJ KHOMREH MECCA, they died because they loved iran and iranian people.

so you should be thankful of shah and be loving his memory.
 

LDPC

Bench Warmer
Dec 23, 2003
502
0
#11
count your lucky stars that shah was civilized enough to put your family members in prison.

mine and many million other family members were assassinated by your revolutionary forces, tortured, and left to die simply because they loved Iran. mind you, not loved COMMUNIST RUSSIA or HAJ KHOMREH MECCA, they died because they loved iran and iranian people.

so you should be thankful of shah and be loving his memory.
I believe, Well Shah did put in jail thinkers and the most smart people as did this regime! I believe, Because of what Shah did that we ended up with this regime. He had phobia (rightfully so) of the leftist and he ignored the influence of Mullahs. Basically till the end he looked down at Akhoonds as a major force of change.
At the time most of good thinkers and smartest people were either a part of the Communist movement or a part of Jebhe Melli. For instance Kianoori, Tabari, Farrokh Negahdar ... from leftist groups were genius people in their own field. On the other hand Bazargan,... as far as I know was one of teh most talented people. There were people in Communist parties that had been affiliated to USSR at the time which I think was wrong but the nature

I believe Leftist did a lot of wrong things which siding with the regime till 1361-2 was one (Except Fadayi Aksariat) but one thing was for sure that they were not traitors and they did love this country as many others did. I think the changes happend after they demonstrated in Azadi square and were brutally suppressed and leaders poisoned afterwards.

What is with the phrase "your revolutionary forces" mean? My revolutionary forces are at work hopefully filing for patent today :)
Thanks to Payan for his view on the revolution. I came back to country as a kid when war had just started Winter 1359 and did not see the revolution. Just remember going to London by train and demonstrating against the Shah regime embassy till revolution won every other day. Those were fun days for a small kid.
 
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parham79

Bench Warmer
Dec 5, 2009
1,767
0
#12
There was 3 times more masjeds and madarese ulama built all over iran all over from 1956 to 1975 then what IR a so called religiouse entity has built. That tells you enough about shah's mentality and beliefs regarding religion.
 
Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#13
you know what realy strange is that for 32 years so many people have been trying hard to analyzing a revolution which actually it had nothing worthy to talk about it . absolutely nothing to analyze about .only bunch of thugs who got themselves loaded with guns then stealing money from nation and bullying everyone by prisoning them,torturing,rapping and killing .a
the real scary thing is so many well respected foreign press fall into that trap as well put time and energy just repeating the qoutes ;like ,america hich ghalati nemitavanad bekonad, america sheytan bozorg ast , or 2500 sale har che ma meekeshim az dast america ast ..
get real .
 
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Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
3
#14
well, before the revolution of 1979 we had pretty much an area ( of all whore houses all together) .it was likea mini city in south part of tehran called share nu ( new city ) .as a matter of fact it was filty houses .each house inculded like 4,5,6 prostitues, one madam and about 3,4 guys working there .
that city had some music shopes .sandvich shopes, a restarunts and some other shopes .but the most important of all were the tea houses, which usually was bigger than normal .at end of day,or nite the timethe business was dying then all the homeless, the ones who sleeped in street had place to sleep .so the owner charged sitting sleeping like 50 cents and standing a quarter . any time some ofthem had no money if there were still place left then they could slept there .but they all had to sleep theirwith their back to the wall . in the morning th guy treated them with a hot tea before they leave .
it is just a memory .
wtf!! why are you so weird and random?
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#15
I believe, Well Shah did put in jail thinkers and the most smart people as did this regime! I believe, Because of what Shah did that we ended up with this regime.
I believe that you are wrong. I believe some of the actions that were completed during the Shah's era (not regime: need i remind the forum that the country has a house of representative and senates when at times passed laws that werer not in line with shah's thinking as opposed to now that the islamic gathering of donkeys is a complete toilet and non entity), delayed the islamic revolution from happening in the 60s and even in the late 50s.
He had phobia (rightfully so) of the leftist and he ignored the influence of Mullahs. Basically till the end he looked down at Akhoonds as a major force of change.
Agreed on the first part because, as i said a million times before, our left be it fadayee, peykaaar, tude, ranjbaraan were all satellites of soviet union which automatically made them traitors to Iran and Iranian people and unfortunately Shah's secret police were too soft on them (maybe on purpose). You can have socialist parties and even communist parties (such as in France and Sweden) that work towards their own country, unfortunately our left's sole purpose was to sell information to the soviets and their elements within the iranian borders.

Agreed with you on the second part too. Shah's deficiency on entertaining the MAFOOL akhounds which were the direct manifestation of a festering culture of barbaric arabs greatly helped undermine his rule on iran. He did it to please the people but sometimes you have to make policy that in the short term might cause disruptions but in long term will bring prosperity and posterity to the nation and the country and he failed to realize this.

and the expression of black and red barbarism joining hands is to the point of this but unfortunately it was too late for him to reverse his policies and decisions he was already in exile.


At the time most of good thinkers and smartest people were either a part of the Communist movement or a part of Jebhe Melli. For instance Kianoori, Tabari, Farrokh Negahdar ... from leftist groups were genius people in their own field. On the other hand Bazargan,... as far as I know was one of teh most talented people. There were people in Communist parties that had been affiliated to USSR at the time which I think was wrong but the nature
I need to emphasize an opinion here; the word "thinker" might be a bit misleading here.
One might take two or three doctorates in how to betray and destroy a country. I would classify them as an intellectual and a thinker but should he be treated as a thinker or as a traitor ???
you can bet your bollocks to a barn dance that he should be STOPPED by any means necessary, ideally with peaceful means such as house arrest and exile and on repeat offences by long term prison sentence and possible execution.

Kianoori, tabari, bani sadr, beheshti, soroosh were (and some still are) traitors and mostly got what they deserved for what they did to Iranians and iranian culture.

I believe Leftist did a lot of wrong things which siding with the regime till 1361-2 was one (Except Fadayi Aksariat) but one thing was for sure that they were not traitors and they did love this country as many others did. I think the changes happend after they demonstrated in Azadi square and were brutally suppressed and leaders poisoned afterwards.
this organization used to rub banks and shoot security guards, kill army personnel to achieve their goals. When you raise arms against the army of your nation (legitimate army that defends your borders against ANIMALS SUCH AS SADDAM HOSSEIN) you deserve whatever you get.
you deserve to be shot in the hills of evin (jazani) or executed (hanif nezhad) but I am opposed by all means to torture. absolutely opposed. Trial, conviction and execution (or stripping the citizenship and deportation)

What is with the phrase "your revolutionary forces" mean? My revolutionary forces are at work hopefully filing for patent today :)
my friend the patent was registered during those treacherous days of 1978-9, don't file for it you ll be turned down

Thanks to Payan for his view on the revolution. I came back to country as a kid when war had just started Winter 1359 and did not see the revolution. Just remember going to London by train and demonstrating against the Shah regime embassy till revolution won every other day. Those were fun days for a small kid.
yes well you can go visit the country now and see the results of your fun with 20 percent unemployment, drug abuse, repression, breakdown of social services not to mention hundreds of thousands of executions and tortured. I guess you had your fun and they are paying for it.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#16
I think it is more interesting to look at this at another angle. Twice, we had democracy for a short period or moving towards it.
1) mossadegh time
2) Bakhtiar time

Both times we destroyed it. Both times we ended up in a dictatorship. Shah who loved his country and made much progress and advancement, other khominie who loved Islam more than Iran and thought everything including laughs, social freedoms, gaames (even chess and football) should be sacrificed to follow true Islam. He took the country decades to centuries back.

Question is
1) Why is it that Iranians come close to democracy but destroy it each time
2) Iranian history is so not well documented. Ex. Islamic takeover and details of thereafter. Islamists hurt to the country during Mossadegh, and before. Even history of Iran. Perhaps because Islam made sure that Muhamad and Koran cannot be criticized and placing Kaffar. In another words, nothing in Iranian history keeps it from happening again as the history is not well documented and broadcasted. So, it keeps on repeating itself.
 

LDPC

Bench Warmer
Dec 23, 2003
502
0
#18
@ Keyvan_pars: Obviously we have differences in our views on those you consider traitors, on Bijan Jazani, Shah ... and we share common view on this regime. Specially about the brutality of this regime's prisons compared to Shah time. My father (God bless his soul) experienced both in equal terms and said he had better time in pre-revolution. They even blind folded him and did a mock execution in his post-revolution jail time ...

Anyway thanks for taking time to share your views.
 

parham79

Bench Warmer
Dec 5, 2009
1,767
0
#20
Shah summed up our problems in his speech^^^^^. Az mast ke bar mast. Some idiots decided it was fun to protest in england till in khodabiamorz was gone because it was fun.