Where are all those articles praising the US for invading Afghanistan, toppling the Taliban and freeing women? There are none. Afraid that George Bush might get some credit, all women organizations shut up and never said a word in support of the Afghan women. Now God forbid if the rights of two lesbians are in anyway trampled upon.
Flint - America has to accept the blame - after all America voted Obama in the White House. What pisses me off is the fact that those who are truely responsible for handing the country over to Talinab are the Brits who have been in Opium business with them for generations........They implement their plans when people like Obama and Carter are in the WH - hence all the blame goes to America.
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Na ghorboonet beram, this goes way back to early 70s. Brezezinski, Carters advisor, explained it himself how they supported the mujahedin that were put together from taliban that god their qurans thrown down to them from US planes. Taliban is not a party or organization. Taliban is the plural of "Talabeh". Yani inaa ye mosht talabeh hastan ke amrikaa beheshoon ghoraan midaad, aslahe midaad, ke beran moghaabele komonistaa bejangan. Az hamoon avalesh inaa zire baal o pare amrikaa bozorg shodan. They are among the first protagonists in Carters "green belt" plan of islamization of the region.
Arming the Taliban to defeat the Soviets was a sound policy because those who were willing and able to fight. How else would you kick the Russians out? The problem was to leave the country in their hands afterward. If Carter was reelected you can be sure the Russians would still be there because him and those around him were too conflicted, especially after the hostage rescue disaster. The so called green belt or whatever never made sense to me because of what has happened since then.
the problem was and always is with the US that they assume Iraq and Afghanistan are like Japan and West Germany after the second World war. They don't realize that the majority of muslims hate American policy and the Army for their support of Israel (which i find strange because jews and muslims are supposed to be sharing the same father Abraham, if the myth of that incestuous semitic garbage is true), but nevertheless, they do.
so to wait for the sovient union to withdraw and then completely leave a vacuum in that country is like bringing a 16 year old virgin to a Rapist convention.
What did they do in Ey-rack, they came in toppled the sunnis and put the power in the hands of Shiites whom the sunnis have been screwing since the 1920s, and here is the result.
they never learn.
so to wait for the sovient union to withdraw and then completely leave a vacuum in that country is like bringing a 16 year old virgin to a Rapist convention.
What did they do in Ey-rack, they came in toppled the sunnis and put the power in the hands of Shiites whom the sunnis have been screwing since the 1920s, and here is the result.
they never learn.
How else to kick the russians out? lol.. migam ke harfe moft kontor nemindaazeh...according to Brzezinski himself, those poor russians were just fooled by the amricans. They didnt want to go to afghinastan, it was more like the americans put there a trap to get the russians involved in Afghanistan to kick start the islamization plan and have an alibi for it.
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Brzezinski Interview
The Brzezinski Interview with Le Nouvel Observateur (1998)
Translated from the French by William Blum and David N. Gibbs. This translation appeared in Gibbs, "Afghanistan: The Soviet Invasion in Retrospect," International Politics 37, no. 2, 2000. For article full text, click here.
Original French version appeared in "Les Révélations d'un Ancien Conseilleur de Carter: ‘Oui, la CIA est Entrée en Afghanistan avant les Russes...’" Le Nouvel Observateur [Paris], January 15-21, 1998.
Note that all ellipses appeared in the original transcript, as published in Le Nouvel Observateur.
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs that the American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahiddin in Afghanistan six months before the Soviet intervention. Is this period, you were the national securty advisor to President Carter. You therefore played a key role in this affair. Is this correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahiddin began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention [emphasis added throughout].
Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into the war and looked for a way to provoke it?
B: It wasn’t quite like that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q : When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against secret US involvement in Afghanistan , nobody believed them . However, there was an element of truth in this. You don’t regret any of this today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: “We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war." Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable for the regime , a conflict that bought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported Islamic fundamentalism, which has given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B : What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Q : “Some agitated Moslems”? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today...
B: Nonsense! It is said that the West has a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid: There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner, without demagoguery or emotionalism. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is t h ere in com m on among fundamentalist Saudi Arabia , moderate Morocco, militarist Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt, or secularist Central Asia? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries...
Additional Sources:
The memoirs referred to in the interview are Robert M. Gates, From the Shadows: The Ultimate Insider's Story of Five Presidents and How They Won the Cold War (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1996), pp. 143-49. Written by a former CIA director, this book first revealed the covert support for the Mujahiddin, prior to the invasion.
Washington Post correspondent Steve Coll downplays the significance of the CIA operation. He presents declassified documents from Brzezinski that express deep concern about the Soviet invasion. According to Coll, the documents "show no hint of satisfaction" from Brzezinski, regarding the invasion. These facts leave two possibilities: The first is that Brzezinski was simply falsifying or distorting in his 1998 interview, in which he implies that he did express satisfaction at the Soviet invasion and the prospect of giving the Soviets their own Vietnam. The second possibility is that the documents referred to by Coll are only part of the story and that other documents, awaiting declassification, corroborate Brzezinski's 1998 statements.
See Steve Coll, Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (New York: Penguin, 2004), pp. 50-51, 581, footnote 17.
Page created by David N. Gibbs
http://dgibbs.faculty.arizona.edu/brzezinski_interview
Home
Brzezinski Interview
The Brzezinski Interview with Le Nouvel Observateur (1998)
Translated from the French by William Blum and David N. Gibbs. This translation appeared in Gibbs, "Afghanistan: The Soviet Invasion in Retrospect," International Politics 37, no. 2, 2000. For article full text, click here.
Original French version appeared in "Les Révélations d'un Ancien Conseilleur de Carter: ‘Oui, la CIA est Entrée en Afghanistan avant les Russes...’" Le Nouvel Observateur [Paris], January 15-21, 1998.
Note that all ellipses appeared in the original transcript, as published in Le Nouvel Observateur.
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs that the American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahiddin in Afghanistan six months before the Soviet intervention. Is this period, you were the national securty advisor to President Carter. You therefore played a key role in this affair. Is this correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahiddin began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention [emphasis added throughout].
Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into the war and looked for a way to provoke it?
B: It wasn’t quite like that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q : When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against secret US involvement in Afghanistan , nobody believed them . However, there was an element of truth in this. You don’t regret any of this today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: “We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war." Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable for the regime , a conflict that bought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported Islamic fundamentalism, which has given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B : What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Q : “Some agitated Moslems”? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today...
B: Nonsense! It is said that the West has a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid: There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner, without demagoguery or emotionalism. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is t h ere in com m on among fundamentalist Saudi Arabia , moderate Morocco, militarist Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt, or secularist Central Asia? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries...
Additional Sources:
The memoirs referred to in the interview are Robert M. Gates, From the Shadows: The Ultimate Insider's Story of Five Presidents and How They Won the Cold War (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1996), pp. 143-49. Written by a former CIA director, this book first revealed the covert support for the Mujahiddin, prior to the invasion.
Washington Post correspondent Steve Coll downplays the significance of the CIA operation. He presents declassified documents from Brzezinski that express deep concern about the Soviet invasion. According to Coll, the documents "show no hint of satisfaction" from Brzezinski, regarding the invasion. These facts leave two possibilities: The first is that Brzezinski was simply falsifying or distorting in his 1998 interview, in which he implies that he did express satisfaction at the Soviet invasion and the prospect of giving the Soviets their own Vietnam. The second possibility is that the documents referred to by Coll are only part of the story and that other documents, awaiting declassification, corroborate Brzezinski's 1998 statements.
See Steve Coll, Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (New York: Penguin, 2004), pp. 50-51, 581, footnote 17.
Page created by David N. Gibbs
http://dgibbs.faculty.arizona.edu/brzezinski_interview
Na aziz jan, its our pure naivity that makes us believe that "they never lern". Such a statement sugar coats their deadly intentions, it makes them look like some naiv people who just make mistake after mistake without knowing what they are doing. NOT AT ALL. They know exactly what they are doing. They do it intentionally. They plan these things and they even say it themselves only we iranians and sepcially mamal emrikaais are the ones who are making a fool of themselves trying to lie the sky down to earth just to defend someone who is not even interessted to lie to defend himself. lol. Migam ke irooni jamaa at hamishe kaaseye daagh tar az aash boode o hast. These guys are planning a big thing for more than 40 years and the results of islamization of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Tunisia, Caucasus....and still counting.
Well I really wouldn't know what kind of a creature is a 'mamal americayee' and speaking for myself i hope that I don't make a fool of myself more than any other poster in this forum.
The issue is not defending or attacking anyone here. As you said yourself us iranians should avoid being kaase ye daagh tar az aash on both fronts.
A question that is raised in my mind is that, PRESENTLY, not in the 1980s, what do the US government have to gain by islamization of Iraq and Afghanistan, i mean both financially and policy wise?
The issue is not defending or attacking anyone here. As you said yourself us iranians should avoid being kaase ye daagh tar az aash on both fronts.
A question that is raised in my mind is that, PRESENTLY, not in the 1980s, what do the US government have to gain by islamization of Iraq and Afghanistan, i mean both financially and policy wise?
In jaryaan dar asl fahmidanesh raahate vali gaahi oghaat baayad tozihesh daad chon mardom nemifahman. mibinan, mikhoonan ke chetor amrika mantagharo eslaami karde o daare mikone, vali baaz nemitoonan baavar konan. kheyli phenomene jaalebiye. Hame midoonan ke amrikaa be khomeini komak kard ke biaad, hame midoonan ke shah ro az posht zad, injaa mibinim ke aslan taliban ro dorost kardan o beheshoon komak kardan ke paaye roosaaro bekeshoonan be afghanestan, mibinim poshte jahaadi haaye sooriyeh aslahe o komak haaye siaasi o maaliye amrikaast, mibinim ke too mesr amrika poshte morsi bood o mobarak ro enghadr tahdid kard ke baba gozaasht raft. vali baaz miporsim cheraa?...
In dar asl dalilesh moshakhase. va oon vojoode eslaam dar in mantaghast. Vojoode eslaam faghat be mantagheye maa khatm nemishe, balke be hameye donyaa rabt daare. In yek asle ghadimi boodeh ke hich abar ghodrati az rom gerefte taa amrikaa bedoone jang va ijaade ehsaase khatar miyoone mardome khod va mardome donyaa kaaresh pish nemire. chon dar jang pool hast va dar ehsaase khatar miyoone mardom, ghodrat. Hich mazhabi, hich hezbi, hich ahadi, be raahatiye eslaam nemitoone baaese ijaade tashanoj, kharaabi, jang o harj o marj beshe va in khodesh yek donyaa miarze. Bertrand Russell ham midoonest va dar moredesh ham neveshte bood. Vaghti mardom dar tars baashan, mishe be bahaane haaye mokhtalef kontroleshoon kard va kessi ke dar tars be sar mibare, haazere kolli az hoghooghe shakhsiye khodesho azash begzare, vaase inke behesh in ehsaase amniat ro bar gardoonan. khodesho mispaare daste regime khodesh va inkaar ro europa o amrikaa daaran mikonan. Mardomeshoon dar tars az eslaam o jang, haazeran az hagh o hoghooghe ejtamaai shoon begzaran. Yani gool khordan. In harfaai ro ke man mizanam, yek jaryaane besyaaaar bozorgtari hast az bahse afghanestan o eraagh. oonaa faghat dotaa protagonistan. Az har kodoomeshoon ye joor estefaadeh mikonan. Az tarse mellate khodeshoon ye joor, az afghaanestan ye joor, az eraagh ye joor, az iran ye joor, az sooryeh ye joor...
afghanestan ro ke kardanesh tofaaleh. faghat azash estefaadeh kardan vaase keshoondane roosaa paaye jang, badesham hamoon talebeh haai ro ke talim daadeh boodan o ghoraan roo sareshoon mirikhtan, shodan Al Qaida o Taliban o felaano besaar o shodan yek abzaare jadid vaase be vojood aavordane rob o vahshate bishtar. Inaa be "disintegration" ehtiaaj daaran va harjaa eslaam taghviat she "disintegration" ham taghviat mishe. Masalan az khomeini o IR estefaadeh mishe vaase be onvaane matarsak o loolookhorkhoreye araabe khalije fars. Khob, in araab neshastan roo trilliard haa dollar va alaan saal haaye saale ke daaran 100 milliard, 100 milliard az amrikaa aslahe mikharan o jam mikonan vaase rooze mabaadaa. cheraa? chon az irane shiee mitarsan. Naavgaane amrikaa ro daaran too mantaghe majaani migardoonan. Khob inaa hamash poolo sarmaaye hast ke amrikaa daare az in tarigh be dast miaare. too in mantaghe shah o saddam be dard nemikhordan. jofteshoon eslaamist naboodan balke bishtar nationalist boodan va nationalist haa hamishe mooye damaaghe amrika o igilis boodan chon ye aadame nationalist dir yaa zood be fekre motaghel kardane keshvaresh miofte, be fekre estehkaam va esteghlaale eghtesaadi, siaasi o nezaami migardeh...ke inaa hamash zede oon chiziye ke amrikaa dar in mantaghe mikhaad chon in esteghlaal haa o estehkaam haa aakharesh be aaraamesh o hamzisti too mantaghe khatm mishe va aaraamesh o hamzisti dar in mantaghe doshmane ahdaafe amrikaast ke daare az jang, khaak , khoon, tars o rob o vahshat pool dar miaare, niroo haaye nezaamisho dar mantaghe mostahkam mikone. vaase yeki looloo misaaze bad khodesh miaad behesh mige, bebin in looloo kheyli khatarnaake, age haghe hesaabe maaro bedi man azat moghaabele in looloo defaa mikonam.
Eraagh ro inaa serfan be khaatere esraail az beyn bordan. 3 tikash kardan ke shomaalesh alanan daste kordaast o vaase khodeshoon naft ham mifrooshan bedoone inke be dolate markazi kaari daashte baashan, jonoobesh shode ye lajanzaare shiee, vasatesh sonniye va hamashoonam shodan teshne be khoone hamdige. khob az in tarigh ham bozorgtarin doshmane esraail dar mantaghe ro khonsaa kardan, ham be regime iran komak kardan chon khatare eraagh ro az bikhe goosheshoon vardaashtan, vaase sherkat haaye amrikaai gharaar daad haaye khoob o bozorg be vojood aavordan, va dar eyne haal, kaari kardan ke "disintegration" be vojood oomade tori ke dolate eraagh alaan dige nemitoone marzaasho kontroll kone va az in tarigh be eslaamist haaye sooriyeh ham komak mishe....bebin in jaryaan ro age man bekhaam edaameh bedam mitoonam 15 safeh vaasat benevisam vali faghat taa in had migam ke inaa az eslaam daaran pool dar miaaran, in tarsi ke mardome gharb az eslaam o eslaamism (eslamismi ke khodeshoon behesh baal o par daadan lol) daaran, ye kaari karde ke khode mardom baa daste khodeshoon az hoghoogheshoon gozashtan, kessi dige cheraa nemige vaghti migan felaan jaa baayad doorbin bezaarim, felaan jaato baayad begardim, felaan shomaare ID ro baayad bezanim too memory, felaan telefono baayad goosh bedim, felaan email ro baayad bekhoonim, felaan fax ro baayad bebinim...inaa hamash roo ham mishe the new world order ke age bekhaaim behesh ye maniye mokhtasar o kootaah bedim mishe: Dar zanjir andaakhtane mellat haaye donyaa va azashoon zedde khodehsoon estefaadeh kardan.
In dar asl dalilesh moshakhase. va oon vojoode eslaam dar in mantaghast. Vojoode eslaam faghat be mantagheye maa khatm nemishe, balke be hameye donyaa rabt daare. In yek asle ghadimi boodeh ke hich abar ghodrati az rom gerefte taa amrikaa bedoone jang va ijaade ehsaase khatar miyoone mardome khod va mardome donyaa kaaresh pish nemire. chon dar jang pool hast va dar ehsaase khatar miyoone mardom, ghodrat. Hich mazhabi, hich hezbi, hich ahadi, be raahatiye eslaam nemitoone baaese ijaade tashanoj, kharaabi, jang o harj o marj beshe va in khodesh yek donyaa miarze. Bertrand Russell ham midoonest va dar moredesh ham neveshte bood. Vaghti mardom dar tars baashan, mishe be bahaane haaye mokhtalef kontroleshoon kard va kessi ke dar tars be sar mibare, haazere kolli az hoghooghe shakhsiye khodesho azash begzare, vaase inke behesh in ehsaase amniat ro bar gardoonan. khodesho mispaare daste regime khodesh va inkaar ro europa o amrikaa daaran mikonan. Mardomeshoon dar tars az eslaam o jang, haazeran az hagh o hoghooghe ejtamaai shoon begzaran. Yani gool khordan. In harfaai ro ke man mizanam, yek jaryaane besyaaaar bozorgtari hast az bahse afghanestan o eraagh. oonaa faghat dotaa protagonistan. Az har kodoomeshoon ye joor estefaadeh mikonan. Az tarse mellate khodeshoon ye joor, az afghaanestan ye joor, az eraagh ye joor, az iran ye joor, az sooryeh ye joor...
afghanestan ro ke kardanesh tofaaleh. faghat azash estefaadeh kardan vaase keshoondane roosaa paaye jang, badesham hamoon talebeh haai ro ke talim daadeh boodan o ghoraan roo sareshoon mirikhtan, shodan Al Qaida o Taliban o felaano besaar o shodan yek abzaare jadid vaase be vojood aavordane rob o vahshate bishtar. Inaa be "disintegration" ehtiaaj daaran va harjaa eslaam taghviat she "disintegration" ham taghviat mishe. Masalan az khomeini o IR estefaadeh mishe vaase be onvaane matarsak o loolookhorkhoreye araabe khalije fars. Khob, in araab neshastan roo trilliard haa dollar va alaan saal haaye saale ke daaran 100 milliard, 100 milliard az amrikaa aslahe mikharan o jam mikonan vaase rooze mabaadaa. cheraa? chon az irane shiee mitarsan. Naavgaane amrikaa ro daaran too mantaghe majaani migardoonan. Khob inaa hamash poolo sarmaaye hast ke amrikaa daare az in tarigh be dast miaare. too in mantaghe shah o saddam be dard nemikhordan. jofteshoon eslaamist naboodan balke bishtar nationalist boodan va nationalist haa hamishe mooye damaaghe amrika o igilis boodan chon ye aadame nationalist dir yaa zood be fekre motaghel kardane keshvaresh miofte, be fekre estehkaam va esteghlaale eghtesaadi, siaasi o nezaami migardeh...ke inaa hamash zede oon chiziye ke amrikaa dar in mantaghe mikhaad chon in esteghlaal haa o estehkaam haa aakharesh be aaraamesh o hamzisti too mantaghe khatm mishe va aaraamesh o hamzisti dar in mantaghe doshmane ahdaafe amrikaast ke daare az jang, khaak , khoon, tars o rob o vahshat pool dar miaare, niroo haaye nezaamisho dar mantaghe mostahkam mikone. vaase yeki looloo misaaze bad khodesh miaad behesh mige, bebin in looloo kheyli khatarnaake, age haghe hesaabe maaro bedi man azat moghaabele in looloo defaa mikonam.
Eraagh ro inaa serfan be khaatere esraail az beyn bordan. 3 tikash kardan ke shomaalesh alanan daste kordaast o vaase khodeshoon naft ham mifrooshan bedoone inke be dolate markazi kaari daashte baashan, jonoobesh shode ye lajanzaare shiee, vasatesh sonniye va hamashoonam shodan teshne be khoone hamdige. khob az in tarigh ham bozorgtarin doshmane esraail dar mantaghe ro khonsaa kardan, ham be regime iran komak kardan chon khatare eraagh ro az bikhe goosheshoon vardaashtan, vaase sherkat haaye amrikaai gharaar daad haaye khoob o bozorg be vojood aavordan, va dar eyne haal, kaari kardan ke "disintegration" be vojood oomade tori ke dolate eraagh alaan dige nemitoone marzaasho kontroll kone va az in tarigh be eslaamist haaye sooriyeh ham komak mishe....bebin in jaryaan ro age man bekhaam edaameh bedam mitoonam 15 safeh vaasat benevisam vali faghat taa in had migam ke inaa az eslaam daaran pool dar miaaran, in tarsi ke mardome gharb az eslaam o eslaamism (eslamismi ke khodeshoon behesh baal o par daadan lol) daaran, ye kaari karde ke khode mardom baa daste khodeshoon az hoghoogheshoon gozashtan, kessi dige cheraa nemige vaghti migan felaan jaa baayad doorbin bezaarim, felaan jaato baayad begardim, felaan shomaare ID ro baayad bezanim too memory, felaan telefono baayad goosh bedim, felaan email ro baayad bekhoonim, felaan fax ro baayad bebinim...inaa hamash roo ham mishe the new world order ke age bekhaaim behesh ye maniye mokhtasar o kootaah bedim mishe: Dar zanjir andaakhtane mellat haaye donyaa va azashoon zedde khodehsoon estefaadeh kardan.
Everything that you wrote here makes sense with only one question that keeps being raised in my head.
Wouldn't this eventually come back to bite them on the ass, lets say there is a belt of kos mashang islamists all the way from pakistan to morocco?
Would this not cause security problems for Europe and the US ?
more security spending means more money channelled away from social spending and standard of life to fund random groups and terrorist activities, wouldn't this eventually destroy their economy?
Wouldn't this eventually come back to bite them on the ass, lets say there is a belt of kos mashang islamists all the way from pakistan to morocco?
Would this not cause security problems for Europe and the US ?
more security spending means more money channelled away from social spending and standard of life to fund random groups and terrorist activities, wouldn't this eventually destroy their economy?
Answer me this. Does the US benefit if all the countries of the middle east were molded after places like Kuwait, Jordan, Emirates, Saudis, Israel and alike or if they were all converted to the likes of Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Gaza, Yemen and the rest? I don't think there is any sane person to say the latter.
This is great keyvaan jaan. I like your thoughts in this regard but your answer is actually clearly stated in my post above. You say security issues? Khob inaa daghighan hamino mikhaan!! They need these security issues. Thats all they want. Those thinktank organizations that organized shahs downfall and khomeinis return, called the IR " controlled disintegration". And this is exactly what the whole thing has turned to become. To be honest, all these islamic country are no threat to the west military wise. They are just superb tools. Look why do you think the israelies support the jiihadist in syria? Because of the controlled disintegration that those boo gandoos will bring to that country. Its actually already done. Islamists bring disintegration to their own societies and kill nationalism, progressivism, secularism and plurasim but they are no threat to a secular and technologically superior force like israel. Assad in the long run would have been the by far bigger threat because he simply was and couldnt be disintegrative. He kept his country together was secular and a syrian nationalist. such atributes always bring you kind of estehkaam and continuity. be it military wise, cultural, economical...but now the disintegration is absolutely ruling that country. disintegration is ruling iran and libya and disintegration is ruling iraq.
This kind of islamist backward disintegration can very well be controlled and those few bombs in europe or america every now and then are even welcome and if they dont happen, you can be sure the americans make sure they happen. because fear is a major factor in this world. they need the fear factor to keep their own western people at bay ke betoonan beheshoon began: didid? didid, maa hagh daarim? didid baayad hanooz milliard haa dollar kharje artesh konim? didid age maa nabaashim che balaai saretoon miaad?
Another thing that we really need to understand keyvann jaan is: There is no such thing like "their economy" or "their society" anymore. Really, the world is not thinking like that anymore. they dont give a fuck about the US economy or US people as a whole. they care about certain groups and lobbies within that society, within that economic system and i tell you this is actually the reason why all western countries are complaining of loss of budget while the big companies are actually breaking their own records on yearly basis. The money is still getting generated, its just not getting down to society anymore. society and peope are more and more degraded to just voters and workers who are getting left alone with their own problems in an alarming way.
This kind of islamist backward disintegration can very well be controlled and those few bombs in europe or america every now and then are even welcome and if they dont happen, you can be sure the americans make sure they happen. because fear is a major factor in this world. they need the fear factor to keep their own western people at bay ke betoonan beheshoon began: didid? didid, maa hagh daarim? didid baayad hanooz milliard haa dollar kharje artesh konim? didid age maa nabaashim che balaai saretoon miaad?
Another thing that we really need to understand keyvann jaan is: There is no such thing like "their economy" or "their society" anymore. Really, the world is not thinking like that anymore. they dont give a fuck about the US economy or US people as a whole. they care about certain groups and lobbies within that society, within that economic system and i tell you this is actually the reason why all western countries are complaining of loss of budget while the big companies are actually breaking their own records on yearly basis. The money is still getting generated, its just not getting down to society anymore. society and peope are more and more degraded to just voters and workers who are getting left alone with their own problems in an alarming way.
Chinaski has it nailed for those who still wonder "what's going on".
Chaos is the biggest asset for the military industrial complex and of course banks. Without chaos, the US economy will be no more (in its current form anyway).
Islam provides chaos at incredibly cheap rates. Think Chinese labor is cheap? Think again. Islamic chaos is a much more attractive business venture than any natural resource or cheap labor.
None of these wars or conflicts are about oil. They're about Islamic chaos. The best and cheapest kind of it too.
Chaos is the biggest asset for the military industrial complex and of course banks. Without chaos, the US economy will be no more (in its current form anyway).
Islam provides chaos at incredibly cheap rates. Think Chinese labor is cheap? Think again. Islamic chaos is a much more attractive business venture than any natural resource or cheap labor.
None of these wars or conflicts are about oil. They're about Islamic chaos. The best and cheapest kind of it too.
Simple, because if there are factors that create fear, there need to be factors who get afraid. All those lazy arabs at persian gulf are just paying BIG TIME for their security. There is a certain atmosphere that no one in that region trusts the other one. I remember shah planned a regional union of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey to create stability. That must have been like a nightmare plan for the americans and ofcourse it never happened. That self constructed atmosphere of fear and instability, makes the arabs pay whatever price needed, just to secure their comfort level. They all are forced to play roles and they dont even realize it. IR doesnt want to be looloo khor khore but they simply are because they cant get out of their own skin. they are shiite clerics who rule that country and any big shiite country ruled by shiite clerics puts fear in the heart of those little sunni-wahabi arabs at persian gulf. If this region would have been ruled mostly by educated secular rulers, things would become more stable, nations could start building their own identity based on what they are and what they afford and produce and not solely based on what branch of islam they follow. their possible confrontations and competition would have been more logical, based on technological or political ground and not based on fatwas of some sheikh o molllah o mofti. At the end of the day, Islam makes countries lose their identity as progressive and independent nations and drags them down into disintegration, backwardness, fatwas and direct and indirect wars that just makes them lose time, substance and resources to a degree that for many countries it would be close to impossible to recover.
There is no question there is some of that but I still believe the US would far prefer Iran to be another Kuwait than what it is today. World commerce has grown so much that military sales are a speck. Defense companies are dwarfed by soda and potato chips makers. McDonald's can sell far more burgers in Iran than Kuwait can possibly buy F-16. 2/3 of McDonald's revenues come from overseas and is about $16 B. How much of it comes from Iran? If US sold as much goods to Iran as it does to Kuwait on a per capita basis, its exports would have been $51B a year. What is it now?