soal eshtebaah porsideh shodeh. Keshvari ke taarikh o nejad o mazhabesh chand baar be tore koll avaz shodeh, ye taarikhe homogen nadaare ke bekhaaim begim felaan shakhs 2700 saal pish tasiri gozaasht ke emrooz ham mishe ehsaasesh kard. Emrooz in keshvar faghat esmesh irane. Maa dige hich rabti be nejade ariaai o zartosht o koorosh nadaarim. Moghol haa 90% jamiate iran ro koshtan, va taaze hamoon 250 000 nafari ke az hamleye moghol joone saalem be dar bordan, baa arab haa ghaati shode boodan. Iran emrooz yeki az tork tarin keshvar haaye mantaghast. Az asiaye markazi ghabile haaye tork taa sistan, khoozestan, kerman, yazd, khorasan ke sahle, azarbaijan, gilan, hamedan, mazandaran...oomadan o jaaye khaaliye in mamlekat ro por kardan. Yani hataa ye kermani o sistani ham nemitoone bege ke tork nist. Khob, iraadi nadaare, vali mellate emrooze iran na az nazare mazhabi na az nazare nejaadi va na az nazare zabaani, rabti bee irane baastaan nadaare. Pas Kourosh o zartosht agar tasir gozaar boodan, taa avaayele doreye bani ommaye too iran boodan o bad yavaash yavaash farhange mamlekat saami shod, zabaan saami shod. Maa vel moatalim age hanoozam fekr mikonim rabti be kourosh o zartosht daarim. Nadaarim choon aslan maa baaghi moondeh haaye irane baastaan nistim. Moghol haa az nejaade irane baastaan chizi baaghi nazaashtan.
Agar donbaale shakhsi hastim ke yek tasire vaazeh roo in mamlekat o mellat gozaasht oonam bad az hamleye arab be iran, oon shakhs Yaghoob Leiss Saffari bood.
Agar donbaale shakhsi hastim ke yek tasire vaazeh roo in mamlekat o mellat gozaasht oonam bad az hamleye arab be iran, oon shakhs Yaghoob Leiss Saffari bood.
so, whats the grade of his positive influence on todays iran and iranians ha? Doroogh kam migim? saadeghim? ensaaniat o ensaan doosti daare too iran bidaad mikone? dozdi kam mikonim? Khiaanat kam mikonim? baraadar koshi nemikonim?
well i think the answers of these questions are very obvious hence the influence of kourosh on todays iran is close to ZERO. Faghat khodemoono michasboonim behesh oonam faghat bekhaatere tazaahor.
well i think the answers of these questions are very obvious hence the influence of kourosh on todays iran is close to ZERO. Faghat khodemoono michasboonim behesh oonam faghat bekhaatere tazaahor.
In a way you are right about the situation today , I look at it as a wonderful garden of Iranian culture and heritage being infested with weeds that somehow tarnish this beautiful garden but they cant destroy it , there are still many gardners that try and look after it and in time there will be more and more that will get rid of thr weeds for good , maybe not in our time but it will .
We are still talking about INFLUENCE and not about glory. Your kouroshe kabir obviously doesnt have the slightest influence on todays iran and the mentality and character of iranians. Dont miss the point.
Iranians are fed with made up bullshit about almost everything regarding their history. Most iranians dont even know Yaghoob Leiss while they praise some real irrelevant morons or fucked up gholdors.
Iranians are fed with made up bullshit about almost everything regarding their history. Most iranians dont even know Yaghoob Leiss while they praise some real irrelevant morons or fucked up gholdors.
Well this is romanticizing things. This garden you are talking about doesnt exist. Iran today is a mixture of turks, arabs and a few iranian genes. its people are shia moslems and the few who are still giving a damn to old iranian culture are not having an impact on the majority of the population. This is the reality of this country. What you talk about is just a sweet dream.
With that, I don't agree with you. What makes you think Iranians today are the same people or race as the Iranians after the Arab invasion? Hamleye moghol came long after the Arab invasion and since then a lot of wars happened between Iran and other nations like the Osman empire. We have been mixed a lot, not just racially but also culturally during a long period of time. If we are to compare today's Iran with anything historic than probably Qajar's era is the oldest era which is closest.
yeah yeah, but during this period of time, i dont see anyone standing out positively unless we lower the bar of expectations. After Ghajars, our best men were not found among rulers but among writers and poets and those poor guys were unfortunately always muted by rulers who were not even worth the dirt under their finger nails. This is the dillema of this country. Their best, finest and most delsooz minds have been its writers and poets who never had the power to defend themselves against bunch of moronic and opportunist rulers.
^^ You were just explaining to Oghab about the point that this is about influence, not necessarily positivity. However, if you cut down Cyrus the Great from the options above, I think you'll see some leaders with both good and bad influences who stand out from Qaja era till now?!
For me, Khomeini had the most influence of them all. Noboy turned Iran's reputation in the world with 180 degrees overnight like he did!!! Reza Shah comes in a close second in my book.
For me, Khomeini had the most influence of them all. Noboy turned Iran's reputation in the world with 180 degrees overnight like he did!!! Reza Shah comes in a close second in my book.
One doesn't have to change the inherent nature of mankind to be considered influential bud. I think it's extremely unkind to say Cyrus had zero influence on today's Iran. If it wasn't for him, there wouldn't have been any Persian/Iranian identity at all and we would have been like Afghanistan or Pakistan, if Iran was even a country still, through all those invasions and upheavals.
All Iranians are not liars, thieves or murderers and those people exist everywhere and in every country. Granted, the current social structure under the IR is promoting that, but IR is nothing more than a small insignificant blip in a longer historical perspective. The belief that Cyrus hacked into the Iranian psyche, that we can once again rise from the ashes and that justice and righteousness can and will eventually prevail over evil is the greatest gift anyone could have given a group of people and the only reason we're sitting here, and will be here for many hundreds if not thousands of years to come, discussing a nation on the Iranian plateau called Iran. :cheers:
Even more romantic stuff. what the heck did koorosh hacked in to iranian psyche?! What win of good over evil??? which rise from the ashes?
I think you guys really need to read iranian history and once and for all realize that the only thing this country is shareing with Iran, is its name and close to nothing more. Being called iranian, or carrying the iranian passport doesnt mean you follow iranian culture. It doesnt mean you are even of iranian heritage. This countries name was given to it by reza paalaani. After arab invasion and certainly after mongol invasion iran and iranianhood disapeared. Other people came and populated the plateau, they brought up their culutres, their religions, their way of life and their genes. We are not the decendants of kourosh, we are descendents of those arabs and turks who started to populate iran after Samanian and the mongol invasion. We dont have anything in common with ancient iranians. We iranians talk about achievements of Nader Shah o Safavian o ...va mizaarimesh be hesaabe Iran o irani. Iranians dont even know that Nader Shahe Afshar, az bikh o bon tokr bood. Spoke turkish, his whole family were oghuz turks. He did not invade India with Iran in mind. He was the occupier of iran and made it the center of his dynasty. Not more and not less. Until the end, he spoke better turkish than farsi. Safawids were occupiying turks and no iranians. The iranians are counting all of them as iranian dynasties but they werent. The iranian history is full of heavy defeats by the hands of turks, mongols and arabs and the turks not only ruled this country and reshaped it culturally, they even came to stay and the iran you know today, is a country ruled by an arabic religion followed by mostly turkish people who speak a semi persian language and in a lot of placed iranians still speak rather turkish than persian even down to shiraz, kerman, khorasan and khoozestan.
What i am trying to say is: The stuff you guys are coming up with, are just stuff good for tazaahor va khaab o khiaal. vaase soorat o baa silli sorkh negah daashtan. The reality of this country is absolutely different.
No wonder iranians know kourosh only by his name, they wear faravahar and dont even know what it means and what it stand for. Its just a little sign ke mod shodeh. Thats it.
I think you guys really need to read iranian history and once and for all realize that the only thing this country is shareing with Iran, is its name and close to nothing more. Being called iranian, or carrying the iranian passport doesnt mean you follow iranian culture. It doesnt mean you are even of iranian heritage. This countries name was given to it by reza paalaani. After arab invasion and certainly after mongol invasion iran and iranianhood disapeared. Other people came and populated the plateau, they brought up their culutres, their religions, their way of life and their genes. We are not the decendants of kourosh, we are descendents of those arabs and turks who started to populate iran after Samanian and the mongol invasion. We dont have anything in common with ancient iranians. We iranians talk about achievements of Nader Shah o Safavian o ...va mizaarimesh be hesaabe Iran o irani. Iranians dont even know that Nader Shahe Afshar, az bikh o bon tokr bood. Spoke turkish, his whole family were oghuz turks. He did not invade India with Iran in mind. He was the occupier of iran and made it the center of his dynasty. Not more and not less. Until the end, he spoke better turkish than farsi. Safawids were occupiying turks and no iranians. The iranians are counting all of them as iranian dynasties but they werent. The iranian history is full of heavy defeats by the hands of turks, mongols and arabs and the turks not only ruled this country and reshaped it culturally, they even came to stay and the iran you know today, is a country ruled by an arabic religion followed by mostly turkish people who speak a semi persian language and in a lot of placed iranians still speak rather turkish than persian even down to shiraz, kerman, khorasan and khoozestan.
What i am trying to say is: The stuff you guys are coming up with, are just stuff good for tazaahor va khaab o khiaal. vaase soorat o baa silli sorkh negah daashtan. The reality of this country is absolutely different.
No wonder iranians know kourosh only by his name, they wear faravahar and dont even know what it means and what it stand for. Its just a little sign ke mod shodeh. Thats it.
Dude, you always say "we", but what you really mean to say is "I". If you don't identify with your ancestors who lived on the Iranian plateau 2,500 years ago (or before then), that's all fine and dandy , but don't say "we" as a people don't identify with that. Sure, there were invasions, there was interbreeding, etc., but that was part of their struggle . If you're acknowledging and understanding that struggle, then even you are identifying with that, so I don't know where you're going with that.
Surely, you're not suggesting that the Persians of 2500 years ago went extinct, that they don't have any living descendants, are you?!
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Yes i say we and i include YOU because you dont know much about iranian history. you are not any different than the rest. This is why you need to be treated like the rest of us. Inaai ke to minevisi dige hamash mozakhraf o haashiast. Read iranian history and do it properly. There is no rising from the ashes and stuff. Almost all of those struggles you are talking about have infact not been a struggle but clear cut defeats. All those defeats simply changed this country for good. We at best are the shotor-gaav-palang people that ferdosi predicted. Dar vaagheh maa bad az samanian va oftaadane ghodrat be daste ghaznaviane tork, tamaame hoviyate parsi ro az dast daadim. Hataa inke emrooz in keshvar hanooz esmesh iran hast ro maa faghat va faghat be in madyoonim ke rahm kardan. Taa saale 1313 aslan keshvari too donyaa be esme iran vojood nadaasht. Dar zaman ghajar be oon mahdoodei ke emrooz behesh migim iran migoftan "ممالک محروسه قاجار ".
ghabl az oon ham in mahdoodeh be esme tavaayefi boode ke solteh mikardan va oonaa az ghaznavian be bad hame tork boodan. Yani dar irane emrooz faghat ye selseleye Zand bood ke lor/kord boodan vagarna baghiye hame tork boodan va hataa bishtar torki harf mizadan taa farsi. Nader shah aslan chizi va keshvari be esme Iran nemishnaakht. Yek torke oghuz bood ke too khoraasaane emrooz be donyaa oomade bood o vaase taayefeye khodesh yani Afshaarian (ke be torki mishe Oshaar) mijangid, na vaase Iran. arteshesh tork bood, naameh be torki minevesht, shere torki minevesht. Haalaa irooniaa miaan hamchin migan Nader shah o mikonanesh ghahremaane melli ke engaar kooroshe dovom boodeh. Taraf khodesh aslan na fars boodeh na mikhaaste fars baasheh haalaa irooniye oomadeh khodesho michasboone be in baba mikonatesh ghahremaane melliye iran lol.
We need to be frank about our history if we want to understand why we are in this sorry state. With bullshit va tazaahor o doroogh we are not gonna go anywhere as a nation. We need to understand who we are. We are not the iranians you guys think of. Not at all. We are just carrying the name of iran and iranians.
ghabl az oon ham in mahdoodeh be esme tavaayefi boode ke solteh mikardan va oonaa az ghaznavian be bad hame tork boodan. Yani dar irane emrooz faghat ye selseleye Zand bood ke lor/kord boodan vagarna baghiye hame tork boodan va hataa bishtar torki harf mizadan taa farsi. Nader shah aslan chizi va keshvari be esme Iran nemishnaakht. Yek torke oghuz bood ke too khoraasaane emrooz be donyaa oomade bood o vaase taayefeye khodesh yani Afshaarian (ke be torki mishe Oshaar) mijangid, na vaase Iran. arteshesh tork bood, naameh be torki minevesht, shere torki minevesht. Haalaa irooniaa miaan hamchin migan Nader shah o mikonanesh ghahremaane melli ke engaar kooroshe dovom boodeh. Taraf khodesh aslan na fars boodeh na mikhaaste fars baasheh haalaa irooniye oomadeh khodesho michasboone be in baba mikonatesh ghahremaane melliye iran lol.
We need to be frank about our history if we want to understand why we are in this sorry state. With bullshit va tazaahor o doroogh we are not gonna go anywhere as a nation. We need to understand who we are. We are not the iranians you guys think of. Not at all. We are just carrying the name of iran and iranians.