Natural mesleh inke nafaset az jaye garmi boland mishe. Omadi invareh ab neshasti pahato andakhti ro ham va onja to Iran shishe nooshabe ro michopoonan to javoonamon va ba tir minzananeshon to khiaboon bad to migi ma bayad mozakere konim? Bayad beshinim va tarafe moghabelo dark konim. Why spew hate?
Seriously dude, if it was your mom or sister getting beaten up on the streets or were getting assaulted in Kahrizak nemioomadi inja vase ma shoar az goftegoo va darke tarafe moghabel ro bedi.
Change does not come easy. Obviously people like you get to gloat about democracy and non violent ways to achieve your goals while many on the streets have to put their lives on the line and risk everything to make that happen. Labod vaghti Saddam hamleh kard be Iran baz ham bayad mishastim mozakereh mikardim. Akhe chera khoshooonat? You can solve everything through talking even if you are dealing with psychotic cases who are armed and are not shy about using it.
Seriously dude, if it was your mom or sister getting beaten up on the streets or were getting assaulted in Kahrizak nemioomadi inja vase ma shoar az goftegoo va darke tarafe moghabel ro bedi.
Change does not come easy. Obviously people like you get to gloat about democracy and non violent ways to achieve your goals while many on the streets have to put their lives on the line and risk everything to make that happen. Labod vaghti Saddam hamleh kard be Iran baz ham bayad mishastim mozakereh mikardim. Akhe chera khoshooonat? You can solve everything through talking even if you are dealing with psychotic cases who are armed and are not shy about using it.
Good to see simply ken still making an living by pure lies.Ahmadinejad called cyrus the great in 2007 a Iran's past kings like Cyrus the great corroupt immoral ruler. How is he honoring our past lying about the greatest individual in our nations history.In jakesh khar geer ovorde. In jakes ha daran perspolice nabood mekan ba on saade ke keshidan dar on naheyea.They hate every thing about our past kings.
since you guys love this hezbi so much, here is some more of his posts 
pm me for more of his posts
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There were 4 candidates in the election, so he was by no means the only alternative. But most people in Iran prefered Ahmadinejad, that's why he won and and as I said, most people here on this board prefered Ahmadinejad, until like 30-40 Iranians were banned for supporting him.
And if you check Mousavi's political history, Prime Minister in the 80s, than you would see why he is worst than those people who are in power now. He was part of the old, ultra-conservative, fundementalist, trans-nationalist elite which ran the country during Khomeini. After Khamenei cam in power, the regime became so much more moderate and the laws so much less strict + they started becoming more religious nationalist and not anti-Iranian culture, meanwhile all the hard-liners, including Mousavi, were ran out of government. Now he comes back, re-branding himself after 20 years, hoping to attract young voters which don't remember him from back then, he lost and then went on a desperete campaign to get back in power, trying everything to get back in power, riots, propaganda, collaboration with enemies, and all of it was bad for Iran.
But these secular, suburban middle classes do not form a majority in Iran. That's why their candidate lost the elections and their protests failed to gain steam. In a way it's bit like in Turkey, Erdogan Vs. Baykal. Is the regime a bit to strict? Well, yes. Should there be reforms, yes (but remember the country had been slowly becoming more and from free between '89 and '09, the green movement only set this back). But is a revolution good for Iran at this crucial time in history? No it's not. And is Mousavi better than Ahmadinejad, no.
pm me for more of his posts
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There were 4 candidates in the election, so he was by no means the only alternative. But most people in Iran prefered Ahmadinejad, that's why he won and and as I said, most people here on this board prefered Ahmadinejad, until like 30-40 Iranians were banned for supporting him.
And if you check Mousavi's political history, Prime Minister in the 80s, than you would see why he is worst than those people who are in power now. He was part of the old, ultra-conservative, fundementalist, trans-nationalist elite which ran the country during Khomeini. After Khamenei cam in power, the regime became so much more moderate and the laws so much less strict + they started becoming more religious nationalist and not anti-Iranian culture, meanwhile all the hard-liners, including Mousavi, were ran out of government. Now he comes back, re-branding himself after 20 years, hoping to attract young voters which don't remember him from back then, he lost and then went on a desperete campaign to get back in power, trying everything to get back in power, riots, propaganda, collaboration with enemies, and all of it was bad for Iran.
But these secular, suburban middle classes do not form a majority in Iran. That's why their candidate lost the elections and their protests failed to gain steam. In a way it's bit like in Turkey, Erdogan Vs. Baykal. Is the regime a bit to strict? Well, yes. Should there be reforms, yes (but remember the country had been slowly becoming more and from free between '89 and '09, the green movement only set this back). But is a revolution good for Iran at this crucial time in history? No it's not. And is Mousavi better than Ahmadinejad, no.
the only solution is the fight fear with brevity. They have to be identified and shot to death.
its simple either a few thousands of these scumbags who don't even count as mother fucking human beings or a few HUNDRED THOUSANDS real iranians. the choice is simple. put these mother fuckers to death. put their families to death. put their friends to death.
make an example of a few of them and put the footage on internet so the rest of them can see then you see a HUGE REDUCTION IN THE ACTIVIITES OF LEBAS SHAKHSIS AND BASSIDJIS.
a lot of them will return to lebanon to eat fucking shawarmas and trim the pubes on sheykh nasrollahs whore wife.
its simple either a few thousands of these scumbags who don't even count as mother fucking human beings or a few HUNDRED THOUSANDS real iranians. the choice is simple. put these mother fuckers to death. put their families to death. put their friends to death.
make an example of a few of them and put the footage on internet so the rest of them can see then you see a HUGE REDUCTION IN THE ACTIVIITES OF LEBAS SHAKHSIS AND BASSIDJIS.
a lot of them will return to lebanon to eat fucking shawarmas and trim the pubes on sheykh nasrollahs whore wife.
Keyvanjan,
I don't sympathize with straight-up "pussy" attitude of those in favor of handing roses to these thugs in exchange for beatings and shootings, but I also don't find the idea of seeing them shot to death all that appealing. History has proven that blood draws more blood even as generations come and go.
I don't mind these thugs living in fear for the rest of their lives, and if it takes a few of them getting harmed for this to get achieved, then so be it, but we have to draw the line somewhere. A mass killing of Basijis (or any group) will have a traumatizing effect on the country and will only help bring about another Islamic Republic-like regime. Ideally, we want the most civilized, peaceful and intelligent factions of the society to be involved in the highest possible affairs of the country. That's how a country can prosper. These factions rarely step forward if violence is the name of the game and armed militia owns the night. The armed militia might be engaging in violent acts in favor of the people, but at the same time they're preventing the emergence of prosperity and peace.
The matter is more complicated than the few paragraphs that we type here, but I just want to invite you to rethink your proposed approach. I could be wrong by the way.
I don't sympathize with straight-up "pussy" attitude of those in favor of handing roses to these thugs in exchange for beatings and shootings, but I also don't find the idea of seeing them shot to death all that appealing. History has proven that blood draws more blood even as generations come and go.
I don't mind these thugs living in fear for the rest of their lives, and if it takes a few of them getting harmed for this to get achieved, then so be it, but we have to draw the line somewhere. A mass killing of Basijis (or any group) will have a traumatizing effect on the country and will only help bring about another Islamic Republic-like regime. Ideally, we want the most civilized, peaceful and intelligent factions of the society to be involved in the highest possible affairs of the country. That's how a country can prosper. These factions rarely step forward if violence is the name of the game and armed militia owns the night. The armed militia might be engaging in violent acts in favor of the people, but at the same time they're preventing the emergence of prosperity and peace.
The matter is more complicated than the few paragraphs that we type here, but I just want to invite you to rethink your proposed approach. I could be wrong by the way.
a few points here:
1- what have you accomplished by stating your hatred between like minded individuals towards these thugs day in and day out for the last 32 years? do you think you expressing your hate has done anything constructive in the lives of the iranian people?
2- when you dont have the means to fight someone who is armed to the teeth, the worst and stupidest way is to become violent. because you will be fighting in their turf, they are way better than you, and you will be crushed and put out of your existence before you know it
3- Saddam represented a country with a military. When your country is attacked by another country's military, you use YOUR OWN military to defend yourself. Because your country is also armed just like the one who is attacking you. the difference here is that the regime is armed and we are not. when you are not armed and you decide to become violent against a thug with deadly weapons WHO IS NOT SHY ABOUT USING THEM (as you very well put it) then you are just asking to be defeated.
use your brain.
and get off your high horses, I hate them as much as you do, but the question is how do we overcome this in a practical way, not a fantasy way as keyvan and you always preach.
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B.T,
That is the frightening part which concerns me a lot and will definitely be the outcome of a violent revolution and so far no one has expressed even a semi-practical solution for it.
It really doesn't matter if the opposition has a well mechanized and advanced army with 1/2 million trained personnel, it will still be a prolonged urban warfare. That is the most dangerous event which can jeopardize the integrity of the nation b/c it can open the doors for foreign forces to intervene.
Iran is not Darfur or Rwanda and if bloodshed continues UNSC will be passing resolutions faster than an old man passing gas and NATO is coming in. Yugoslavians didn't invite the NATO, they just went in there and settled the matter pretty quick by dividing the whole nation in 5 pieces.
That is the frightening part which concerns me a lot and will definitely be the outcome of a violent revolution and so far no one has expressed even a semi-practical solution for it.
It really doesn't matter if the opposition has a well mechanized and advanced army with 1/2 million trained personnel, it will still be a prolonged urban warfare. That is the most dangerous event which can jeopardize the integrity of the nation b/c it can open the doors for foreign forces to intervene.
Iran is not Darfur or Rwanda and if bloodshed continues UNSC will be passing resolutions faster than an old man passing gas and NATO is coming in. Yugoslavians didn't invite the NATO, they just went in there and settled the matter pretty quick by dividing the whole nation in 5 pieces.
Rasouljan,
I have always maintained my long term prediction of Iran decomposing into multiple nations and continue to do so. Not that I believe such an event will take place overnight or as a result of revolting against Islamic Republic. My belief is purely based on patterns I have come to recognize in social affairs of humans specially those from the Middle East region. It's a natural destination on our path. A path that is heavily influenced by the society's curiosity and a currently strong regional desire to try different things. It will come. Maybe not in the form of complete separation of borders but definitely in the form of strong ethnic contrasts and PAN-ethnicity movements. Thanks to many factors including the oppressive nature of Islam, many ethnic factions will seek to glorify their local culture in the form of revolutionary and separatist ambitions once the central governments in Iran, Iraq and possibly Turkey lose a bit of grip and it's not hard to predict that these governments will indeed lose their grip at some point in the future one way or another.
Your fear of NATO presence is a fairly valid one. It's a very strong possibility and not a satisfying one either. A period of passive chaos (هرج و مرج گذرا) is probably the least we can expect out of all these changes that are taking place and will be taking place in the middle east. Looking at history, we've had quite a few of them in our own 7000 year old country.
Having said all that, I still think Iran as a country has too strong of an identity to be rattled by these short-term events. Despite all the destruction and digressions that foreign forces including the foreign religion(Islam) have caused, people of Iran remain fairly Iranian and surprisingly loyal to their ancient roots. We might think the loyalty is all slogans and nothing else, but a short unbiased look inside the social affairs of Iranians proves the contrary. Beneath all the superstitious religious bullshit that has polluted the culture for centuries, there's a strong current of national, regional and Iranian pride running through the streams. I'm not trying to be poetic or emotional about this. I'm actually a known pessimist but I can't deny the obvious!
Iran will again become a super-nation or super-power (whatever they call it) at some point in the future because it's one of the few nations in the world that has a very strong urgency to do so. This country was born big and will always retain a big presence no matter how low it goes at some periods in history.
I have always maintained my long term prediction of Iran decomposing into multiple nations and continue to do so. Not that I believe such an event will take place overnight or as a result of revolting against Islamic Republic. My belief is purely based on patterns I have come to recognize in social affairs of humans specially those from the Middle East region. It's a natural destination on our path. A path that is heavily influenced by the society's curiosity and a currently strong regional desire to try different things. It will come. Maybe not in the form of complete separation of borders but definitely in the form of strong ethnic contrasts and PAN-ethnicity movements. Thanks to many factors including the oppressive nature of Islam, many ethnic factions will seek to glorify their local culture in the form of revolutionary and separatist ambitions once the central governments in Iran, Iraq and possibly Turkey lose a bit of grip and it's not hard to predict that these governments will indeed lose their grip at some point in the future one way or another.
Your fear of NATO presence is a fairly valid one. It's a very strong possibility and not a satisfying one either. A period of passive chaos (هرج و مرج گذرا) is probably the least we can expect out of all these changes that are taking place and will be taking place in the middle east. Looking at history, we've had quite a few of them in our own 7000 year old country.
Having said all that, I still think Iran as a country has too strong of an identity to be rattled by these short-term events. Despite all the destruction and digressions that foreign forces including the foreign religion(Islam) have caused, people of Iran remain fairly Iranian and surprisingly loyal to their ancient roots. We might think the loyalty is all slogans and nothing else, but a short unbiased look inside the social affairs of Iranians proves the contrary. Beneath all the superstitious religious bullshit that has polluted the culture for centuries, there's a strong current of national, regional and Iranian pride running through the streams. I'm not trying to be poetic or emotional about this. I'm actually a known pessimist but I can't deny the obvious!
Iran will again become a super-nation or super-power (whatever they call it) at some point in the future because it's one of the few nations in the world that has a very strong urgency to do so. This country was born big and will always retain a big presence no matter how low it goes at some periods in history.
I agree with you and also think BT is a bit harsh on Bahari..At the end of the day he has experienced IR brutalities more than most, if not all on this board so he most definitely is not on lala land.
However about his suggestion on how to deal with Bassijis, sadly the ordinary ideological bassiji will not even listen to the likes of Bahari, you, me, BT etc (They are not even listening to the likes of Sanei, Karroubi, etc..). The only person who could neutralise them from this dangerous ideology is their "agha". However for the last 20 years "agha" has shown that he has no intentions of doing anything of the sort with the final seal of confirmation being 1388 coup and the 29 khordad namaz jomeh.....
But as Deerouz and Zobahan have pointed out a lot of them will chicken out promptly anyway..for those that do remain, I think Artavilles solution is the only viable one!
However about his suggestion on how to deal with Bassijis, sadly the ordinary ideological bassiji will not even listen to the likes of Bahari, you, me, BT etc (They are not even listening to the likes of Sanei, Karroubi, etc..). The only person who could neutralise them from this dangerous ideology is their "agha". However for the last 20 years "agha" has shown that he has no intentions of doing anything of the sort with the final seal of confirmation being 1388 coup and the 29 khordad namaz jomeh.....
But as Deerouz and Zobahan have pointed out a lot of them will chicken out promptly anyway..for those that do remain, I think Artavilles solution is the only viable one!
I don't have a problem with Bahari. He's who he is and I feel bad that he had to be taken hostage by I.R. My beef is with the media putting too much weight on all the totally uncharismatic righoo characters.
We have people like Makhmalbaf who has breathed Islamic fascism since its inception and we have people like Bahari. Which transformation of character do you think people of Iran associate more with as of right now? Certainly not Bahari's.
There's only so much people can mentally take. If they don't seem able to topple the regime in a few hours it doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to. We have to consider what people want too. What Bahari is suggesting is a dream. Revolting against the regime and dying in the process is a reality we are witnessing from the streets of Tehran. People like Bahari need to focus on reality not what they wish for.
We have people like Makhmalbaf who has breathed Islamic fascism since its inception and we have people like Bahari. Which transformation of character do you think people of Iran associate more with as of right now? Certainly not Bahari's.
There's only so much people can mentally take. If they don't seem able to topple the regime in a few hours it doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to. We have to consider what people want too. What Bahari is suggesting is a dream. Revolting against the regime and dying in the process is a reality we are witnessing from the streets of Tehran. People like Bahari need to focus on reality not what they wish for.
Well to be honest I personally like both their approaches and have enjoyed both their views lately-doest mean the approach has to be identical...
As for people of Iran, I think some would associate with makhmalbaf, some with Bahari and some with other schools of though. I really couldnt say which one more - although IR are trying their best to incite radicalism within the green movement.
As for people of Iran, I think some would associate with makhmalbaf, some with Bahari and some with other schools of though. I really couldnt say which one more - although IR are trying their best to incite radicalism within the green movement.
Inciting radicalism within the green movement by I.R is true and implementing counter-measures to prevent them from doing so has been a strategy that although fairly successful, it has also been a total deterrent to the overall success of the movement.
It's impossible to topple I.R without resorting to a minimum level of radicalism. As soon as the movement entered a battle of life and death on 25-Khordad 1388 it became radical. It engaged in a radical war without wanting to be radical. You can't beat illogical, radical Jihadists without becoming radical. The only possible way would be to convince the radical LEADERS to engage in civilized debates. It was tried and miserably failed. What now?
I'm not calling for the execution of all Basij and Sepah thugs. That would be insanity and quite impossible. Just like it's impossible for them to arrest and kill all green supporters. Their effective tactic has been to inflict fear by showing force to a few via random shootings and harsh imprisonment. What is the green movement's counter measure? Civilized debate?! Eltemas? Patience? Until when?
It's impossible to topple I.R without resorting to a minimum level of radicalism. As soon as the movement entered a battle of life and death on 25-Khordad 1388 it became radical. It engaged in a radical war without wanting to be radical. You can't beat illogical, radical Jihadists without becoming radical. The only possible way would be to convince the radical LEADERS to engage in civilized debates. It was tried and miserably failed. What now?
I'm not calling for the execution of all Basij and Sepah thugs. That would be insanity and quite impossible. Just like it's impossible for them to arrest and kill all green supporters. Their effective tactic has been to inflict fear by showing force to a few via random shootings and harsh imprisonment. What is the green movement's counter measure? Civilized debate?! Eltemas? Patience? Until when?
Don't fish in muddy waters. These are emotional replies you're reading. Should the day come when Basiji thugs end up in people's mercy, it's almost guaranteed that their jaws will drop when they realize how easily people forgive them.
The only people with blood on hands is your "Sarbazane Gomname Emam Zaman".
Khodeti
The only people with blood on hands is your "Sarbazane Gomname Emam Zaman".
Khodeti