A different perspective of a so called free society called United States

[Natural]

So because you thought I was "defensive"... you replied to the exact opposite of the point I made!

Sure. Makes perfect sense.

Look dude… I know you’re relatively young and you’re still trying to make sense of the world. That’s why I ignore your copy/past “opinions” most of the time. But you’re not nearly young enough to embarrass yourself like you've done in these two posts! This kind of difficulty with basic reasoning is something one would expect from a 13-year-old, not a young man with a college education.

I repeat my advice: Stick to things you can actually understand. You're WAY out of your depth in serious discussions.

Ok, Lord IZ, aside from your assumption about my age and level of my education, and your unhealthy ego (which I assume comes from lack of self-esteem and knowledge), I'm glad I have people like you around so I can grow up and stop embarrassing myself.

 

[Flint]

well, law or not, it is wrong and unfair, imo. I don't have any capital gains and I pay about 33% on my taxable income. I think the capital gain tax should go up to 40%.. in about 50 or 100 years from now, all that be left of this society is ghettos and gated rich communities.

History is full of disappointed people who thought if the government taxed other people more they will end up with that money. You won't get a cent more unless you go out and earn it. I assure you you can raise that tax to 40% and somebody will say we need more.

 

[Flint]

A middle class taxpayer who makes more than $70,000 will be in 25% tax bracket and will have to pay 5.65% Social Security and Medicare taxes. That taxpayer will pay an effective tax rate of well above 20%. So you are telling me that the richest 400 people are paying less than middle class taxpayers. I thought that was my point.

Not true. The average effective individual Federal income taxes was 9% in 2005. It is probably lower now. Brackets means nothing so far as your AGI goes. The question is what bracket you are in after all deductions. And when you say the rich pay less, be accurate and say they pay lower tax rates. In dollar amounts they pay millions more.

 

[Iranpaak]

Not true. The average effective individual Federal income taxes was 9% in 2005. It is probably lower now. Brackets means nothing so far as your AGI goes. The question is what bracket you are in after all deductions.

What is not true?
The adjusted gross income (AGI) after deduction and exemptions is called TAXABLE INCOME. Someone with $70,000 in taxable income is in 25% bracket plus he/she pays social security and Medicare taxes of 5.65%.

And when you say the rich pay less, be accurate and say they pay lower tax rates.

So you are clinging to semantics? I think anybody can understand what I meant. I am sure you did.

In dollar amounts they pay millions more.

You are explaining the obvious, yes they pay millions in taxes but on billions of income; however 100,000 of them pay taxes at lower tax rate than an average middle class taxpayer. That is the whole point.

 

[shahinc]

Speaking of Bush's tax break on Capital gains, Does anyone know what is the rate of tax on Capital gains in Canada and for that matter in countries like Sweden, Denmark or Norway ?

Are the figures in this link correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

 

[Flint]

What is not true?

That millionaires pay less in tax rates. For the third time, average effective tax rate across all income levels is 9%. Read that chart.

 

[Niloufar]

Speaking of Bush's tax break on Capital gains, Does anyone know what is the rate of tax on Capital gains in Canada and for that matter in countries like Sweden, Denmark or Norway ?

Are the figures in this link correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

There is %50 tax rate for capital gain, here in Canada. and it should be really! it works like they punish u for making extra$ but its necessary I think. but also in the past 2 yrs,a tax relief was introduced in Canada, for everyone that each year every Canadian is entitled to $5000 tax-free saving. u can trade/invest that and u dont pay any capital gain on that if u sell.its a good saving scheme, but not sure many Canadians have that much saving right now, beside their RRSP to save $5000 too!

 

[IranZamin]

Ok, Lord IZ, aside from your assumption about my age and level of my education, and your unhealthy ego (which I assume comes from lack of self-esteem and knowledge), I'm glad I have people like you around so I can grow up and stop embarrassing myself.

You can pretend this is all about ego, but I suggest you take a good look at yourself. If I appear to talk down to you it’s not because of arrogance. It’s because I believe in giving people only as much respect as their mentality deserves. If you look around you’ll see that the way I speak to you and a few others is far different than how I approach members like deerouz, Kaz or FP. You don’t have to agree with me on everything, but if you constantly prove yourself to be irrational, unreasonable, uninformed or biased, I won’t pretend not to notice.

End of threadjack.

 

[Iranpaak]

That millionaires pay less in tax rates. For the third time, average effective tax rate across all income levels is 9%. Read that chart.

Looks like you do not want to hear the truth. It is not my assertion as I said before and I repeat The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service has a report saying there are nearly 100,000 millionaires who pay lower taxes than middle class. We are not talking about all millionaires and we are not talking averages.

 

[BehzadB]

History is full of disappointed people who thought if the government taxed other people more they will end up with that money. You won't get a cent more unless you go out and earn it. I assure you you can raise that tax to 40% and somebody will say we need more.

I didn't mean that the extra taxes should go to me. I meant that if I pay 33% on my hard earned income, then capital gain tax should be at least 40%.
and that money can pay for job-less teachers to go back to work, rebuilding of infraustructure..etc etec..

I understand Economy is not an exact science, but one thing is clear and that is that this system (what ever one wants to call it) has created an ever-increasing distance between the scial classes. and that is not healthy for the society.
with no social balance, It is only matter of time before the whole thing collapses. We may not see that day in our life time but our children may.

 

[Natural]

You can pretend this is all about ego, but I suggest you take a good look at yourself. If I appear to talk down to you it’s not because of arrogance. It’s because I believe in giving people only as much respect as their mentality deserves. If you look around you’ll see that the way I speak to you and a few others is far different than how I approach members like deerouz, Kaz or FP. You don’t have to agree with me on everything, but if you constantly prove yourself to be irrational, unreasonable, uninformed or biased, I won’t pretend not to notice.

End of threadjack.

Lord IZ, I brought up 2012 National Defense Authorization Act. and talked about how that shouldn't happen in a a free society and asked how this can be. but I got nothing from you except for ego, condescension and uninformed assumptions about me. If i were to follow your own rule of respecting ppl based on their mental capacity, I wouldn't even be talking to you right now. but I guess we are different in more than one way

 

[Flint]

I didn't mean that the extra taxes should go to me. I meant that if I pay 33% on my hard earned income, then capital gain tax should be at least 40%.

Problem is you think of tax policy as an instrument for revenge, getting even and sticking to them. All you know is that some guy didn't pay as much as you did. So what? What else do you know about them? What if he has 50 people on his payroll. That is 50 families, husbands, wives, children. So what that he personally did not pay any taxes? The taxes those families pay dwarfs any tax rate you want to impose on him. The most you and I could do is to keep our own heads above water never mind giving someone a paycheck. BTW, there is a reason capital gains is taxed at much lower rate. If democrats wanted to change it they have had ample opportunity.

 

[BehzadB]

Problem is you think of tax policy as an instrument for revenge, getting even and sticking to them. All you know is that some guy didn't pay as much as you did. So what? What else do you know about them? What if he has 50 people on his payroll. That is 50 families, husbands, wives, children. So what that he personally did not pay any taxes? The taxes those families pay dwarfs any tax rate you want to impose on him. The most you and I could do is to keep our own heads above water never mind giving someone a paycheck. BTW, there is a reason capital gains is taxed at much lower rate. If democrats wanted to change it they have had ample opportunity.

you mixing different issues here. So what that there are 50 guys working for the man who pays little tax.. those 50 guys and their families pay their taxes based on their income, which is irrelevant and unrelated to the taxes that their rich boss pays. Similarly, I could claim that for every one who was employed by a rich guy's company, there is another man that was laid off so the rich guy can maximize his profits. Still, this too, is irrelevant to the issue here. there are rich guys in Europe too and they too employ a lot of people. the issue is that every one has to pay their share. Thre is something wrong with the tax laws when GE pays almost zero taxes, even tough they made billions in profits, but their employees all pay around 25% or so in taxes. Point being that the richer you are the more loop holes in the system to avoid taxes. and no I don't think taxes are instrument of revenge, instead I think of taxes as instrument of stability of the social struncrue. Law of jungle is not going to work, no matter how we suger coat it.

 

[Fole_Penalt]

This is the type of video that still has wide ranging appeal to Iranians, especially young Iranians that do not actually live in the US. The same attitude brought us the 1979 revolution.

Absolutely the US falls far, far short of the freedom desired but it has a head and a shoulder more freedom than what those who really like this video are willing to offer others if they were in a position to do so.

 

[Motori]

I didn't mean that the extra taxes should go to me. I meant that if I pay 33% on my hard earned income, then capital gain tax should be at least 40%.
.

Illogicall and totally unfair porposal.

Mind you that the money which has gone in an investment which brings capital gain has already been taxed 33%, your sugestion implies 73% on earned income.

BTW: IMV Teachers are the laziest and overpaid underachiver bunch of this nation. They are officialy "OFF" for 128 days a year excluding their official 14 days annual vacton and still they keep whining.

 

[daei24]

This is the type of video that still has wide ranging appeal to Iranians, especially young Iranians that do not actually live in the US. The same attitude brought us the 1979 revolution.

Absolutely the US falls far, far short of the freedom desired but it has a head and a shoulder more freedom than what those who really like this video are willing to offer others if they were in a position to do so.

it is not about the like perspective. it is to see a different view and be critical when judging about other nations. Nobody is perfect but at least I dont point to others when i have my own mess and send all those innocients around to world to embargos and taking a plate of rice away from children and those innocients

So please just think about it

 

[Mahdi]

it is not about the like perspective. it is to see a different view and be critical when judging about other nations. Nobody is perfect but at least I dont point to others when i have my own mess and send all those innocients around to world to embargos and taking a plate of rice away from children and those innocients

So please just think about it

ok..thought about it...


still rubbish video

 

[Flint]

you mixing different issues here. So what that there are 50 guys working for the man who pays little tax..

All I can say is that next time you are out of a job and interviewing, ask the boss how much he pays in taxes and tell him that you won't take the job if he does not pay more than you do. Make sure to report back to us.

 

[IranZamin]

Lord IZ, I brought up 2012 National Defense Authorization Act. and talked about how that shouldn't happen in a a free society and asked how this can be. but I got nothing from you except for ego, condescension and uninformed assumptions about me.

Not quite.

You brought up the NDAA after you told me that I shouldn't pay taxes if I like the US system! And as if that wasn't silly enough, you then explained that you said that because "I was defensive". The fact that you couldn't even realize how mindless your first post and your subsequent explanation for it were, has reaffirmed all my previous impressions of you and proved yet again that arguing with you is a waste of time.

As for NDAA that you, as usual, have copy/pasted something about from those sites that tell you what to think, I see nothing wrong with discussing unreasonable laws or questioning overreaching legislation. But that's not what the point of this thread was. What I object to is the sensationalist, over-the-top and agenda-driven premise of threads and videos like this which often sound like verbatim parroting of IR talking points. In fact so much so that it immediately brought the resident IR supporters out of their holes giddy with excitement.

This "no freedom in the West" type of nonsense is only spewed by simpletons without perspective or propagandists with obvious agendas. You and the OP don't fall in the second category, but what I hate about the first type is that they often play right into the hands of the second group.

If anyone here wants to talk about issues without howchi-gari or ulterior motives, they'll see no opposition from me. But lay off the silly rhetoric about "so-called free countries", and spare me the videos produced by the type of dipshits who think America is a police state while they jerk off to any murderous dictator as long as he hates the West. Plain and simple.