A great step forward (fiber optic network)

Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#41
Deerouz, over the years I have heard about the "Sahmiyeh", could you please tell me what percentage of people admitted in Iranian higher education institutions are people with Sahmiyeh? Who qualifies for Sahmiyeh and are people who are admitted this way, must meet cetain criteria to be able to finish their education in more challanging institutions such as Sharif? Are the percentages of Sahmiyeh different from different schools?
I find it hard to believe that 40% are admitted thru Sahmiyeh, but as I said, I simply do not know.I am curious to know.
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#42
I only know the situation back in 80s:

Between 1982-1988, the following procedure was in order:

- There were three main groups (Sahmyeihs): open, veterans (Razmandegan), and family of the martyrs (Shohada).

- The open group was further divided based on the regions. Region 1 included the big cities (Tehran, Esfahan, Mahshad etc). The rest of the country were divided into several more regions (3 to 5) based on the status of the region. The idea was to give a more fair chance to students from small cities.

- Until 1988 the chance of admission in each group was equal, based on the number of applicants. In other words, if the admission rate was 1/5, it was the same for everybody. The difference was that the veterans would compete among themselves, region 1 among themselves, region 2 among themselves etc. So at the end, the number of admissions depended on the number of applicants in each group. If 10% of applicants were veterans, 10% of the admitted would be veterans too. The advantage for them was that they did not have to compete with top students from region 1.

- In early-mid 80s, the break up of the admissions in Enegineering were something similar to this: between 45% to 50% of the admitted students were typically from region 1 (truly open competition), around 10% veterans, between 5% to 10% from martyrs families, and the rest (30% to 40%) the regional applicants. Mind you, the regional applicants were sometimes as good as or even better than the open (region 1) students.

- In 1988 a new law was passed that changed it all. 40% of the capacity was reserved for war veterans regardless of how many veteran applicants were there. Another 5% was added for martyrs families. The rest were divided up between other applicants (open and regional). If there was not enough applicants in the veterans sahmiyeh, it would be allocated to the rest. I'd say less than 30% of the students in this scheme were from the so-called region 1.

- The rule for veteran applicants was to have served six months at least in the war fronts. There was no official help after they got in, so many had to drop out later. The government basically took an easy turn: instead of spending resources to train the veterans and get them ready, just put them in the university and left them to fight for survival.


- The above rates were for undergraduate studies. For graduate studies the percentage of veterans were limited to 20% for masters and 10% for PhDs. A veteran could only use the Sahmyieh once.

- As the number of veteran applicants diminished, the above rules were changed too. I don't know how it is working now that there are probably no war veteran applicant left.
 
Oct 22, 2003
133
0
#43
deerouz said:
....(2nd rate, comparing to Stanford, MIT, Harvard, UCLA and other places where Sharif graduates mostly go)...
You mentioned UCLA and Harvard and not Cal? :)

I am not really sure what is the current situation in Iran, but from seeing the Sharif kids in both Cal and Stanford grad programs I am certain there are some really qualified and talented individuals back in Iran. It's simply impossible that every single simply picked up and left.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
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#44
Deerouz thanks for the information. I graduated from University of Tehran (I am not an engineer) before the revolution. There was real competition between Daneshkadeh Fani and Aryamehr engineering schools before the revolution. I know that Sharif has remained an excellent school still, I do not know about Daneshkadeh Fani. Is it still as good as it was before the revolution?
 

PouyaFatemi

Bench Warmer
Oct 19, 2002
901
0
Dallas, Tx
#45
I was at Stanford's pre-orientation program for undergrads a few months ago and after walking around campus for a couple of hours, I saw at least 8-10 engineering grad students who did undergraduate studies at Sharif.

I read somewhere that Iran suffers from the worst case of brain drain in modern history.
 
Oct 1, 2004
8,122
205
#46
OK let me say this, yes it is true, there are many talented capable Iranian engineers who are leaving the country every day for great jobs or continued studies.
On the other hand though, believe it or not, there are Engineers who are very patriotic and are working in Iran's engineering sector to help the country, despite limited resources and people with less education and experience then them managing everything. There are also a lot of older Iranians who have Ph.D's and decide to move back to Iran and see if they can live there again. They also do some great work.
As for electrical engineering, specifically in Telecommunications, Sazmane Mokhaberat has all the money. If a engineer is making more the 400,000 Toman that's where he is getting it from or he has his own business.
The problem with Sazmane Mokhaberat is that like almost all government organizations it has very bad management and people running the place who have no clue what's going on.
They expect engineers to present them with 3-4 projects, the projects become property of Sazmane Mokhaberat and they can use them anytime they want even if they reject your first proposal, with different engineers. You might get lucky and they will accept your proposal. The money can be very good, ranging from a few million toman to nearly a billion toman. You and your associates don't get all the money though. Mokhaberat takes a chunk of the money out for itself.
Also Mokhaberat is absolutely against competition, and if they say the want competition what they really mean is they want another sazmane mokhaberat just with a different name.
 

eshghi

News Team
Oct 18, 2002
8,302
0
San Diego, CA
#47
On brain-drain:
No one can deny that there is brain-drain from Iran. To what extent, no
one really knows. There are no statistics available, and numbers that get
thrown out there usually tell more about one's political inclinations than
reality.

Certainly, jobs are scarce. Good jobs appealing to the more inquisitive
minds even more so. On top of that, you have the interference of politics
in people's everyday lives (including jobs) that drives many away. However,
it would be both naive and unreasonable to assume that the majorty of
top-notch graduates leave Iran. Some are unwilling, and others simply
unable to do so for various reasons. Jobs may be scarce, but still available.
I work with one Sharif graduate and another from Amir Kabir. Both worked
in Iran before coming here, and made close to a million there which is pretty
decent living in Iran in financial terms. Both tell me there are enough jobs
available at decent pay in Iran, particularly for the better graduates. I
myself went to Sharif. I left. Many in my class stayed, and are working in
Iran in various capacities. I have friends who left US for Iran, work there,
and make as good a living there (again in financial terms) as they did here
(not in dollar terms, but in terms of standard of living).

So why wouldn't it possible for Iran to develope a decent nationwide
fiber-optics network? No matter what numbers you come up with for
that "brain-drain", there are certainly enough brains still left in Iran to
do this. Projects do not finish on time? Well, that's a shocker!! In over
20 years of working in a competetive market in US, I am yet to work on
a single project that finished on time. So it may be even worse in Iran.
Maybe this work was supposed to complete five years ago and it's five
years late, but now it's done. I don't understand why this is so difficult
to digest!! I don't doubt that there is terrible mismanagement and lack
of organization in Iran. At the same time, life has not come to a full stop
either. Things are still getting done, however mismanaged, slowly, or
painfully. If anything, those who managed to finish a project like this
despite all the hardships, mismanagements, lack of organization, and
being told what to do by those unqualified, deserve a lot of praise.
Let's give credit where credit is due.

On "Sahmieh":
It seems very hard to swallow at first glance, but this is hardly limited
to the Islamic Republic. In US, they don't call it "sahmieh". Instead, it
is called "affirmative action". The concept is to give a chance to the
"underprivileged". Granted! Doing so takes away the chance that someone
more deserving should get, but the purpose is for the society to pay
something back to those it feels it owes something to. Here in US, too,
the veterans of armed forces enjoy certain privileges not available to
the public at large. So that concept is not an Iranian invention by any
means either.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#48
Eshgi Khan, regarding Sahmieh, I agree with your comparison to "affimative action", with regard to the vetern's sahmieh, I think, a good comparison would be the GI bill after the WWII here in the U.S. A large number of U.S. veterans returning from the WWII were admitted to various colleges and universities which proved to be very helpful to the economic boom of 1950s.
I fully agree that our nation owes a great deal it to the people who defended our country. I am not convinced yet that the Sahmeih is that high (i.e. 40%), almost 17 years after the war ended.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#49
Eshghi Jan
I am quite shocked that your firends calim there lots of job in Iran. None of thse guys that I talk to here told me that and they are all top students.

I also wonder if there are that many jobs, why university students in Iran were complaning about lack of jobs and ...

Anyway, different people different stories I guess.
 

eshghi

News Team
Oct 18, 2002
8,302
0
San Diego, CA
#50
Iranpaak jAn, this practice of giving certain privileges to certain underprivileged
groups in the society is not at all that uncommon. Of course, granting such
privileges also opens the door to abuse by some. This is also not that
uncommon even in more advanced nations. Just ask those living in Sweden,
for example, how much the welfare system there gets abused. In a place
like Iran where there is a lot of corruption, these sorts of privileges lead to
extensive abuse as well. Still, the concept in itself is not necessarily bad
because the intentions are good. It's the abuse that must be dealt with,
and that is unfortunately much easier said than done even in Western societies.

From what I am told by my friends who attended Sharif and Amir Kabir in Iran,
the "sahmieh" situation in Iran has changed considerably since its early days.
Many years have gone by since the end of the war, automatically reducing
the number of such cases. In addition, the fact that most such students
couldn't stand the rigor and left school unfinished has led to many changes.
Cases of abuse still do exist, but the number of such cases has decreased
a lot since the early days.
 

eshghi

News Team
Oct 18, 2002
8,302
0
San Diego, CA
#52
Shahin jAn, I didn't say there are lots of jobs available. I said that according
to them, jobs are available to those who graduate from better schools,
and in fields that have higher demand. Even then, it's safe to assume that
the caliber of jobs is not comparable to the kinds of jobs they could find
in more industrial countries (such as US). I am sure that many many
graduates in less desirable fields either can't find jobs or end up in places
that have little to do with their education. Incidentally, the same can be
said about US to a lesser degree.

I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of the employment situation in Iran.
I am only trying to be factual rather than emotional. I know full well that
the overall unemployment numbers in Iran is quite high. However, suggesting
that employment has ceased altogether (or even for the most part) would be
just as non-factual as claiming that unemployment in Iran is low. Bottom line,
I see no reason why Iranian engineers (whatever percentage of them are
still in Iran ) wouldn't be able to achieve certain things on their own (or with
a little help in terms of raw material they would need). I think such
suggestion are, if I may say so, rather arrogant on the part of those
who make some suggestions.
 

mashtnaghi

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
4,526
77
#54
We don’t need no stinking fiber optics!

Fiber optic facilitates transmission of all the stuff we like to ban and block. We need something that transmits nothing. Yes, absolutely nothing. We need Bisim, yes that is what we need.

What is with all these cravings to copy the West? So, that you can look at nudie pictures and follow the corrupt Western culture? No, we don’t need to connect to these things. We need to connect to Allah and Aemeh athar. And that connection is not made out of fiber; it is invisible and is called prayer. That is what our omat needs, not fiber stuff. (Allah o Akbar, Allah o Akbar, Allah o Akbar)
 
Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#56
mashtnaghi said:
We don’t need no stinking fiber optics!

Fiber optic facilitates transmission of all the stuff we like to ban and block. We need something that transmits nothing. Yes, absolutely nothing. We need Bisim, yes that is what we need.

What is with all these cravings to copy the West? So, that you can look at nudie pictures and follow the corrupt Western culture? No, we don’t need to connect to these things. We need to connect to Allah and Aemeh athar. And that connection is not made out of fiber; it is invisible and is called prayer. That is what our omat needs, not fiber stuff. (Allah o Akbar, Allah o Akbar, Allah o Akbar)
I fully agree.

Ya Sameno'l A'emmeh
 

mashtnaghi

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
4,526
77
#60
Bache Tehroon(ISP) said:
Ya=Ya(hamoon EY)
Samen(actually it's Thamen)=Eighth
A'emmeh=the 12 Imams.

Ya Sameno'l A'emmeh = Ey Emame Hashtom(Emam Reza(as))

May peace be upon the 8th Immam. Thank you brother Bache Tehroon, and the ever present in the stage omat.