A question for everyone !

[Zed e' Engelab]

As an Iranian (was born in Tehran and lived there till I was 16, now, I'm 45 ...., however, as they all say in Iran, its not the age its the mileage), even though both my mother and father were not Iranian, I've always been so interested in Iran and have been proud to call myself Iranian (Irani).

Now, here is my question to ya'll, with all this going on in Iran (which I still think that its just a show my mullah's), all of the suden every oposition group starting from "shahi" all the way to "mojahed" they all are claming that they not only support this, but also have something to do with it !!!!!!

Every single Irani TV is talking about this and supporting this craziness !!!! So, here you go ya'll (my question) !!!

Is this really about Mosavi, or is it about Iranian people being done with F. IRI and want them gone, cause I'm thinking even if Mosavi gets to win this whole thing, isn't he part of IRI, like khatami was and still is?

Ya'll, please take it easy on me !

 

[mashtnaghi]

If Mousavi wins, all opposition groups will claim they are Mousavi. You left Iran a bit too early to learn about Iranians mastery in exaggeration.

On a serious note, yes he is part of this system. If and if he gains power, he will either reform Iran to a secular republic, which I believe many still prefer, or he will not and opposition groups will then try to topple him. This is exactly what happened after 1979. I hope Iran finds a democratic path to a change, one that respects the will of the people.

 

[The_Referee]

If Mousavi wins, all opposition groups will claim they are Mousavi. You left Iran a bit too early to learn about Iranians mastery in exaggeration.

On a serious note, yes he is part of this system. If and if he gains power, he will either reform Iran to a secular republic, which I believe many still prefer, or he will not and opposition groups will then try to topple him. This is exactly what happened after 1979. I hope Iran find a democratic path to a change, one that respects the will of the people.

How could I have said any better!

Thanks mashtnaghi!

 

[RoozbehAzadi]

Thank you for considering yourself as Iranian, and thank you for caring about what's going on. Just out of curiosity, where are your parents from?

I see this as part-revolution and part-evolution. I think the people want a serious change and those like Burrito(khamenei) and Poop(ahmadinejad) gone from power, along with all their hardline unelected friends who have ruined Iran for a very long time.

The people also want a much bigger say in the country's affairs and for more freedoms and a better economy. I'd say they're willing to accept an Islamic Republic, but one in which the Republican aspects take a greater priority, and in which reform is possible, perhaps even to a non-religious type of government in the future.

But at the same time, the longer this goes on and the more that Burrito and his fellow coup plotters don't accept the demands of the people, the more likely it is that a revolution happens again and a totally new system of government is in place. In such a scenario, I could still envisage those like Mousavi and Karbaschi being elected to office, maybe even President. But there will also be much more competition and more groups, including those now banned from politics in Iran, being included in the process.

 

[zoozanagheh]

On a serious note, yes he is part of this system. If and if he gains power, he will either reform Iran to a secular republic, .

I wonder what indications you have seen from him to support the thought he might be open to a secular republic? As far as I recall he has always and constantly praised, supported, and insisted in having beleive in Islamic Republic, it's values, Imam Khomeini and the idea of Velayat Faghih.

I do appreciate if you can point me to some indiction that he might be open to a secular republic and seperation of religion and state.

 

[mashtnaghi]

I wonder what indications you have seen from him to support the thought he might be open to a secular republic? As far as I recall he has always and constantly praised, supported, and insisted in having beleive in Islamic Republic, it's values, Imam Khomeini and the idea of Velayat Faghih.

I do appreciate if you can point me to some indiction that he might be open to a secular republic and seperation of religion and state.

Look at some of the think tanks in his camp, such as Khatimi's brother and his wife and their stance on Hejab. Also, Mousavi's wife and her stance. I think they realize mixing politics and religion as a problem. Of course one can not be sure, and this is more my gut feeling.

 

[The_Referee]

Look at some of the think tanks in his camp, such as Khatimi's brother and his wife and their stance on Hejab. Also, Mousavi's wife and her stance. I think they realize mixing politics and religion as a problem. Of course one can not be sure, and this is more my gut feeling.

Might add one thing and that is if they succeed they know that they owe it to those who helped them succeed, many of whom are secular. Also the openness that follows will make the secular voice heard much louder. Similar to that in 1979.
That time, it was actually two things that helped mullas crack down on all opposition and establish their tyrany: hard core radical Mojaheds and Iraqi invasion (Western support did things worse too) .

This time round, West, our people and whoever take the reigns are far more experienced and logical. Remember, it was cold era in 1979 with cold era mentality. Very different mindsets.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

"I wonder what indications you have seen from him to support the thought he might be open to a secular republic? As far as I recall he has always and constantly praised, supported, and insisted in having believe in Islamic Republic, it's values, Imam Khomeini and the idea of Velayat Faghih.

I do appreciate if you can point me to some indication that he might be open to a secular republic and separation of religion and state."

Thank you "zoozanagheh" ...... here it is ya'll, one thing that is hard to believe is that most people think, mosavi will bring change!!!!!..... Okay .... With all due respect to all his followers but what change, ya'll?

He is has been constantly praising and supporting "khat e emam", a true believer of IRI and believer of velayat e faghih ...... tell me, ya'll, how could he be any different than the rest of bastard akhoonds? ....., I'm so sorry, ya'll, but I do not buy this ....... (ya'll know what I was going to say !!!)

RoozbehAzadi jon, FYI, my parents were both from Mobile, AL. Unfortunately I have lost them both, however my father was a F4 instructor for Iran Air force, and thats why we were in Iran.

 

[mashtnaghi]

"I wonder what indications you have seen from him to support the thought he might be open to a secular republic? As far as I recall he has always and constantly praised, supported, and insisted in having believe in Islamic Republic, it's values, Imam Khomeini and the idea of Velayat Faghih.

I do appreciate if you can point me to some indication that he might be open to a secular republic and separation of religion and state."

If you want proof that is 100% behind it, then I do not have that. I told you that my assessment was more of a gut feeling. I think you understand what that means. I also gave you a few researchable clues as to the source of this gut feeling. I encourage you to look them up.

Btw, what is your solution? I am interested to know.

 

[SirAlex]

RoozbehAzadi jon, FYI, my parents were both from Mobile, AL. Unfortunately I have lost them both, however my father was a F4 instructor for Iran Air force, and thats why we were in Iran.

Agha damet garm, kudos to you for considering yourself Iranian and caring as much as any of us about Iran. RIP you parents, seems they were great people.

It's also a bit funny to see a caucasian guy with that usename who is so much informed about "khat e emam" and velayat faghih.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

Thank you, mashtnaghi, and I hope ya'll know that I do respect you and your opinion.

"Btw, what is your solution? I am interested to know" ... you asked !

Well, based on what I learn thru revolution and what I know about my people in Iran, my solution is to ignore IRI all together and anyone that come out of this evil regime, we need to have a modern leader (or leaders) whom is willing to teach Iranian people reality, "separation of religion and state" (like you said), get them educated, teach them to understand and willing to face reality, think before making an emotional decision, ........ (just to name a few) ...... ya'll must be saying that I'm crazy, it will never happen in Iran ...... but I tell ya'll, try to read the history of Iran before islam and learn who we really are and what are capabilities are. I say there is always a first for everything, ya'll, why can we be the first to have leaders like and build our IRAN all over again.

As a friend, I highly recommend ya'll to read Iran history and read "Shah nameh" (What an unbelievable book, that teaches you the right way of life).

 

[SirAlex]

As a friend, I highly recommend ya'll to read Iran history and read "Shah nameh" (What an unbelievable book, that teaches you the right way of life).

hedyeh be tu ey hamvatan:

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[ame="http://forums.iransportspress.com/showthread.php?t=58401"]WOWWWWWW صوت کامل شش دفتر مثنوی معنوی - Mp3 - Community - IranSportsPress.com[/ame][ame][/ame]

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

SirAlex Jon, ...... "Agha baba, my khayli chakerim" ........ like my father's best friend always told my father and still tells me when I go to "dast boos" him ...... !!!! Man......, I'm just about to cry here ......... !!!!!!

SirAlex Jon, I must know that ...... I'm from that land, yes, my parent were not from Iran, but every part of me is ........ and proud of it........ Love ya'll !

 

[SirAlex]

SirAlex Jon, ...... "Agha baba, my khayli chakerim" ........ like my father's best friend always told my father and still tells me when I go to "dast boos" him ...... !!!! Man......, I'm just about to cry here ......... !!!!!!

SirAlex Jon, I must know that ...... I'm from that land, yes, my parent were not from Iran, but every part of me is ........ and proud of it........ Love ya'll !

Afarin bar tu. I'm proud of you bro.

BTW, I just posted some good stuff for you in the above post.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

ya'll are awesome ! Thank you.

 

[persian-parsa]

You have to stop saying ya'll!

 

[MohammadLin]

Well, I'd say big part of it, is that people are worried about what will to Iran, If Ahmadinejad continues ... and that's one main reason Mousavi came back in first place, if you have seen his debates, especially when he gets mad at SheerBerenj, he says (and I believe him) that he has no desire/intention to get back to politics, but he saw danger, otherwise he'd continue he artistic/cultural work. I don't think he is ultimately going towards secular democracy, and I don't think MOST of people supporting him in the streets of Tehran (not here in ISP) even care if he believes in secular system. For now, they want basic rights, proper management of country's interior issues and foreign policies, freedom of speech, lowering inflation and fixing economy problems, etc ...

 

[zoozanagheh]

Look at some of the think tanks in his camp, such as Khatimi's brother and his wife and their stance on Hejab. Also, Mousavi's wife and her stance. I think they realize mixing politics and religion as a problem. Of course one can not be sure, and this is more my gut feeling.

Thank you MashNaghi jan for clarifying that.
While I respect your opinion, and I am not here to comment on it, I have to say something that has been bothering me, and this is not aimed at you, but is aimed as a general tendecy among us who one way or another support the uprising.
Despite all the differences in our opinion and approaches we all share the same exitement and at the same time same concerens about the fate of our country and its people, would like to see a better day, wish for a free and developed country.
Now sometimes these excitements could lead one to overlook facts or replace facts with assumption raised based on one's view or analyis of the situation.
Let me give you an example, during revolution of 1357, many people assumed a lot of things about khomeini and what he meant about islamic republic, and over looked his writings about Velayat Faghih and his stance on women's right or freedom and got blinded by their own view (assuming he shares and means the same thing) and wishful thinking.

Another example is during the election for Khatami. he kept saying I follow Imam's path, I am for "mardom-salari dini" and many assumed he is okay with separation of church and state and is against velayate faghih. One should distinguish between wanting ease off some restrains and real reform, or between being against the total rule of Khamenei and being against Velayat faghih as a system.

Again, Mash Naghi, this is not aimed at you but all of us. Ever since the election fever started I have encountered several posts by people claiming lots of progressive and demacratic values and viewes about this or that eslah-talab candidate and his camp, from substational reforms to secular state, from being against superession and corruption to freedom of speech and true free election and civil and human rights, from being open to west to being against hezbollah.... A lot of people here tend to ignore or forget about these eslah-talab's past, but instead depict a picture of them that is not based on facts and what they keep repeating in their writings and say in their speeches and interviews, but rather based on their own calculation and assumption.

It's one thing to argue that the path for reform and change goes through this o that faction of the system, but - ignoring their actions aside - to represnt them as someone they are not and do not claim to be themselves is huge unjustice to oursleves and will results in giving them a free ride on our back (kooli) and disappointment for us.

With regards to you and all.

 

[mashtnaghi]

Thank you, mashtnaghi, and I hope ya'll know that I do respect you and your opinion.

"Btw, what is your solution? I am interested to know" ... you asked !

Well, based on what I learn thru revolution and what I know about my people in Iran, my solution is to ignore IRI all together and anyone that come out of this evil regime, we need to have a modern leader (or leaders) whom is willing to teach Iranian people reality, "separation of religion and state" (like you said), get them educated, teach them to understand and willing to face reality, think before making an emotional decision, ........ (just to name a few) ...... ya'll must be saying that I'm crazy, it will never happen in Iran ...... but I tell ya'll, try to read the history of Iran before islam and learn who we really are and what are capabilities are. I say there is always a first for everything, ya'll, why can we be the first to have leaders like and build our IRAN all over again.

As a friend, I highly recommend ya'll to read Iran history and read "Shah nameh" (What an unbelievable book, that teaches you the right way of life).

Thank you for the reply and the kind sentiments. At the moment we do not have a modern leader who has been able to start a movement.

I could not agree more that the separation of the church and the state should be the ultimate goal. The two most immediate issues are religious impositions in economic and social affairs. However, even the hardliners have given some concessions.

Interest on savings which is "Haram" is at 18% and labeled as profit earned on your behalf on your investment. Khatami unsuccessfully pushed to remove the obstacles in the way of foreign investments. But, he did push.

Reza Khatami (Khatami's brother and leading reformist) is married to Zahra Eshraghi (Ayatollah Khomeini's granddaughter) who is a human rights activists pushing for hijab a to become a choice.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Eshraghi[/ame]

A government respectful of people's religious beliefs, Islam in particular, that does not impose religious driven economical and social obstacles is on the right path. Of course, there will be many issues that they have to resolve, such as discrimination against other religious groups, particularly the Bahai's.

We can not force the people to meet us at every point and immediately. We can only ask to be given the freedom to express our voices. Progress comes incrementally.

I am not worried about the campaign slogans. They will need to give concessions and I have a gut feeling that they believe they should. And, I don't think the protests are really about Mousavi as they are a hope for an opening for that modern leader to step forward.

 

[mashtnaghi]

Thank you MashNaghi jan for clarifying that.
While I respect your opinion, and I am not here to comment on it, I have to say something that has been bothering me, and this is not aimed at you, but is aimed as a general tendecy among us who one way or another support the uprising.
Despite all the differences in our opinion and approaches we all share the same exitement and at the same time same concerens about the fate of our country and its people, would like to see a better day, wish for a free and developed country.
Now sometimes these excitements could lead one to overlook facts or replace facts with assumption raised based on one's view or analyis of the situation.
Let me give you an example, during revolution of 1357, many people assumed a lot of things about khomeini and what he meant about islamic republic, and over looked his writings about Velayat Faghih and his stance on women's right or freedom and got blinded by their own view (assuming he shares and means the same thing) and wishful thinking.

Another example is during the election for Khatami. he kept saying I follow Imam's path, I am for "mardom-salari dini" and many assumed he is okay with separation of church and state and is against velayate faghih. One should distinguish between wanting ease off some restrains and real reform, or between being against the total rule of Khamenei and being against Velayat faghih as a system.

Again, Mash Naghi, this is not aimed at you but all of us. Ever since the election fever started I have encountered several posts by people claiming lots of progressive and demacratic values and viewes about this or that eslah-talab candidate and his camp, from substational reforms to secular state, from being against superession and corruption to freedom of speech and true free election and civil and human rights, from being open to west to being against hezbollah.... A lot of people here tend to ignore or forget about these eslah-talab's past, but instead depict a picture of them that is not based on facts and what they keep repeating in their writings and say in their speeches and interviews, but rather based on their own calculation and assumption.

It's one thing to argue that the path for reform and change goes through this o that faction of the system, but - ignoring their actions aside - to represnt them as someone they are not and do not claim to be themselves is huge unjustice to oursleves and will results in giving them a free ride on our back (kooli) and disappointment for us.

With regards to you and all.

You are absolutely correct. What good are we if we don't learn from our mistakes? I am sure some of our members here, once held radical ideas. I think some reformists have learned as we have.

I believe even the protesters see the reformists foremost as a conduit through whom they can vent their pent up frustrations, a group with potential to create an arena where the far more capable but silenced leaders could emerge.