Article by Robert Fisk: Those Danish Cartoons

Old-Faraz

Bench Warmer
Mar 19, 2004
1,118
0
#1
Those Danish Cartoons

Don't Be Fooled This Isn't an Issue of Islam versus Secularism

By ROBERT FISK
So now it's cartoons of the Prophet Mohamed with a bomb-shaped turban. Ambassadors are withdrawn from Denmark, Gulf nations clear their shelves of Danish produce, Gaza gunmen threaten the European Union. In Denmark, Fleming Rose, the "culture" editor of the pip-squeak newspaper which published these silly cartoons--last September, for heaven's sake--announces that we are witnessing a "clash of civilisations" between secular Western democracies and Islamic societies. This does prove, I suppose, that Danish journalists follow in the tradition of Hans Christian Anderson. Oh lordy, lordy. What we're witnessing is the childishness of civilisations.

So let's start off with the Department of Home Truths. This is not an issue of secularism versus Islam. For Muslims, the Prophet is the man who received divine words directly from God. We see our prophets as faintly historical figures, at odds with our high-tech human rights, almost cariacatures of themselves. The fact is that Muslims live their religion. We do not. They have kept their faith through innumerable historical vicissitudes. We have lost our faith ever since Matthew Arnold wrote
about the sea's "long, withdrawing roar". That's why we talk about "the West versus Islam" rather than "Christians versus Islam"--because there aren't an awful lot of Christians left in Europe. There is no way we can get round this by setting up all the other world religions and asking why we are not allowed to make fun of Mohamed.

Besides, we can exercise our own hypocrisy over religious feelings. I happen to remember how, more than a decade ago, a film called The Last Temptation of Christ showed Jesus making love to a woman. In
Paris, someone set fire to the cinema showing the movie, killing a young man. I also happen to remember a US university which invited me to give a lecture three years ago. I did. It was entitled "September 11, 2001
: ask who did it but, for God's sake, don't ask why". When I arrived, I found that the university had deleted the phrase "for God's sake" because "we didn't want to offend certain sensibilities". Ah-ha, so we have "sensibilities" too.

In other words, while we claim that Muslims must be good secularists when it comes to free speech--or cheap cartoons--we can worry about adherents to our own precious religion just as much. I also enjoyed the pompous claims of European statesmen that they cannot control free speech or newspapers. This is also nonsense. Had that cartoon of the Prophet shown instead a chief rabbi with a bomb-shaped hat, we would have had "anti-Semitism" screamed into our ears--and rightly so--just as we often hear the Israelis complain about anti-Semitic cartoons in Egyptian newspapers.

Furthermore, in some European nations--
France is one, Germany and Austria are among the others--it is forbidden by law to deny acts of genocide. In France
, for example, it is illegal to say that the Jewish Holocaust or the Armenian Holocaust did not happen. So it is, in fact, impermissable to make certain statements in European nations. I'm still uncertain whether these laws attain their objectives; however much you may prescribe Holocaust denial, anti-Semites will always try to find a way round. We can hardly exercise our political restraints to prevent Holocaust deniers and then start screaming about secularism when we find that Muslims object to our provocative and insulting image of the Prophet.

For many Muslims, the "Islamic" reaction to this affair is an embarrassment. There is good reason to believe that Muslims would like to see some element of reform introduced to their religion. If this cartoon had advanced the cause of those who want to debate this issue, no-one would have minded. But it was clearly intended to be provocative. It was so outrageous that it only caused reaction.

And this is not a great time to heat up the old Samuel Huntingdon garbage about a "clash of civilisations".
Iran now has a clerical government again. So, to all intents and purposes, does Iraq (which was not supposed to end up with a democratically elected clerical administration, but that's what happens when you topple dictators). In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood won 20 per cent of the seats in the recent parliamentary elections. Now we have Hamas in charge of "Palestine". There's a message here, isn't there? That America's policies--"regime change" in the Middle East
--are not achieving their ends. These millions of voters were preferring Islam to the corrupt regimes which we imposed on them.

For the Danish cartoon to be dumped on top of this fire is dangerous indeed.

In any event, it's not about whether the Prophet should be pictured. The Koran does not forbid images of the Prophet even though millions of Muslims do. The problem is that these cartoons portrayed Mohamed as a bin Laden-type image of violence. They portrayed Islam as a violent religion. It is not. Or do we want to make it so?
 

arashinho

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,194
1
Berkeleyish
#2
Thanks OF, great article. Despite the hypocrisy of the west, moderate muslims need to rein in the extremists who justify their violence in the name of islam. That is as big a threat to the religion as the west.
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#3
Faraz jan,
Fisk's analysis is based on the assumption that the protests and riots in muslim countries are based on a genuine disgust and hurt feelings about the cartoons. I am not quite sure as he is.

Five months after the cartoons were published, more than one week after several other muslim countries have been in protest, all of a sudden within a few hours the blood of a group of Iranian students start boiling so fast that they set fire ti two embassiesin one night? That looks quite phony to me. Or shall I say staged?

This whole new wave of protests actually looks staged to me.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#4
Dear Deerouz, I disagree. I do not think that the cartoons got the publicity when they were published five months ago. Now that it has gotten the media's attention and it is spreading like a wildfire all over. Whether there was a political motive behind the students burning the embassy in Iran, I do not know, but the rage is widespread and to me they do not seem to be staged.
I liked Grand Ayatollah Sistani's reaction I heard. While condemning the cartoons, he has said the terrorists beheadings in Iraq has done more harm to the image of Islam than these cartoons.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#6
Not that it is very different from what I posted before, but in the interest of accuracy, a correction to my earlier post. Grand Ayatollah Sistani while condemning the Danish Cartoons, has said that the militant islamist are partly to blame for distoring the image of Islam.
 

mowj

National Team Player
May 14, 2005
4,739
0
#8
deerouz said:
Faraz jan,
Fisk's analysis is based on the assumption that the protests and riots in muslim countries are based on a genuine disgust and hurt feelings about the cartoons. I am not quite sure as he is.

Five months after the cartoons were published, more than one week after several other muslim countries have been in protest, all of a sudden within a few hours the blood of a group of Iranian students start boiling so fast that they set fire ti two embassiesin one night? That looks quite phony to me. Or shall I say staged?

This whole new wave of protests actually looks staged to me.
deerouz, remember Rushdi's saga, months after Pakistani used the book to stir anti Indian feelings, suddenly militarist religious fascists reminded Khomeiini, by the way there is this novel!... the rest is well,..... another manufactured crisis by people who abused Prophet Mohammad, Koran and Allah more than anybody in history and....
As the great Hafez says, Hafez rendi kono, mey khoro,... daam-e tazvir makon chon degraan ghoraan raa (I amy have missed a word or two)
As I said even God has a sense of humor, after all he created AN, and Hasani, and Khazali, or angry MesbahYazdi
 
Nov 13, 2005
1,885
0
#9
wat i think is that its all a plan, the writters of those newspapers were paid to do that so all muslims wake up and bond up again so islam keeps rulin in middle eastern countries and they dont turn democtactic to become economically strong.
 

Pahlevoon Nayeb

National Team Player
Oct 17, 2002
4,138
0
Poshteh Kooh
#10
Iranpaak said:
Dear Deerouz, I disagree. I do not think that the cartoons got the publicity when they were published five months ago. Now that it has gotten the media's attention and it is spreading like a wildfire all over. Whether there was a political motive behind the students burning the embassy in Iran, I do not know, but the rage is widespread and to me they do not seem to be staged.
I liked Grand Ayatollah Sistani's reaction I heard. While condemning the cartoons, he has said the terrorists beheadings in Iraq has done more harm to the image of Islam than these cartoons.
Spot on Iranpaak jon!

Great article Agha Faraz! Thanks for posting! I particularly like what he says here:

For many Muslims, the "Islamic" reaction to this affair is an embarrassment. There is good reason to believe that Muslims would like to see some element of reform introduced to their religion. If this cartoon had advanced the cause of those who want to debate this issue, no-one would have minded. But it was clearly intended to be provocative. It was so outrageous that it only caused reaction.

And this is not a great time to heat up the old Samuel Huntingdon garbage about a "clash of civilisations". Iran now has a clerical government again. So, to all intents and purposes, does Iraq (which was not supposed to end up with a democratically elected clerical administration, but that's what happens when you topple dictators). In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood won 20 per cent of the seats in the recent parliamentary elections. Now we have Hamas in charge of "Palestine". There's a message here, isn't there? That America's policies--"regime change" in the Middle East--are not achieving their ends. These millions of voters were preferring Islam to the corrupt regimes which we imposed on them.


Hypocrisy only begets hypocrisy. We already know that there’s a lot of that in the Moslem world, what is the excuse of the bastions of modern ethical standards of all that humans achieved in the 20th century?!
 

arashinho

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,194
1
Berkeleyish
#11
it is a self-fulfilling prophesy for the extemists. bush gives the muslim extermists credibility. the muslim extremists give idiots like bush legitimacy.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#12
well written, like always! thanx for sharing it!

I wished he would also discuss the different ways civilized nations protest to a matter vs what thousands of extremists around the world are doing right now.
If they r offended by that journalist's cartoon, why dont they take the journalist to court and make their complaint there?! what does it have to do with Denmark govt and its embassies that they r burning the hell out of them around the world?!!

For God's sake, why muslims still live in 1400 yrs ago fighting with porch and fire?!!!:confused:
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#13
Iranpaak said:
Dear Deerouz, I disagree. I do not think that the cartoons got the publicity when they were published five months ago. Now that it has gotten the media's attention and it is spreading like a wildfire all over.
Dear Iranpak,
I may be wrong, but I think the other newspapers in Europe started publishing the cartoons only after protests and riots became widespread.

For a few months, there were not really any significant mentioning of the issue. Then Islamic governments started filing formal protests against Denmark after a few Danish muslim leaders go on tour of Arab-muslim countries to get the support of officials of those countries.

When the formal protests continued for a few weeks and Denmark refused to apologize, then the arab street erupted in rage. As if the government is telling the people: hey, get up, time for a riot!

In my humble view, a natural popular reaction starts from the mass (bottom), not from the top. I am not saying some feelings are not genuinely hurt; just that there are some hands working behind the scene.

BTW I agree that Sistani's response so far has been the wisest that I could expect from a cleric.
 

Saeedb

Bench Warmer
Jul 7, 2003
2,397
36
#14
If you remember the way Iranian revelution happened it just started with an article
which humilated khomeini and then the riots started Finally shah was removed.
If you ask people most of people even did not know who khomeini was. But since
khomeini was a aymbol of Islam humilating him cause people to be angry!
That is what we are witnessing her. I mean all those pic's from Iraq's prison all
those killings all Iwat Israel did did not cause so much attention than these cartoons.
The pheomena is moselms go crazy by Islam's humiation. And yes Danes are racist, French are not very different. But muslems are overreacting too.
 

Zaagros

Bench Warmer
Nov 14, 2002
800
1
#15
Robert Fisk is way ahead of his counter parts in U.S. I was lucky to have met him few years ago and he predicted all the mess we are in right now.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#19
I have to agree with Deerouz totally, and add the following:

Lets face it, it was a great cartoon. It showed today's Islam in one sentence.

As For Danes and France being racist, no one is more racist than Iranians. Lets take responsiblity here.

The article was interesting, but lets not fool ourselves that Koran is not a violent religon. Am I watching a different picture of the world? Attacking and wanting to destory and kill others over a cartoon is violent, violent, violent. Demonstrating in a peaceful way and not animalistic way against a cartoon (cartoon my friends) is peaceful.

Where are the demonstrations against their dictatorship governments?

And Sistani is another Khomenie. He knows what to say to fool the people. This is exactly the best thing he could have said for his own good.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#20
lordofmordor said:
And Sistani is another Khomenie. He knows what to say to fool the people. This is exactly the best thing he could have said for his own good.
I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on what basis you make such a statement? Are you familiar with Ayatollah Sisitani's stance on various issues? Why would he want to fool people when he has the ultimate say in south Iraq? And what would he gain that he does not already have by making such a statment?