Attention: "Ashtar"

beystr · Mar 9, 2006

Alimr, ...what the heck does this mean?

61:11] Believe in GOD and His messenger and strive in the cause of GOD with your money and your lives. This is the best deal for you, if you only knew.

this is just the tip of the blood berg and just one soore in the total profound nonesense that quran is filled up.
the problem is that Islamic republic does indeed tries to be Islamic...however most of us would love to think that true Islam is some other real nice and humane idelology....its all part of the Denial that perhaps makes our pain a little less painfull.

AliMR · Mar 9, 2006

beystr said:

where does it say attack your neighbor??
it says BELIEVE IN GOD, and his messenger...put ur lives and your money for gods cause. that doesnt mean go kill the guy who doesnt agree with you.

Quran does grant permission to use force if you are thrown out of your homes and towns, but it says, "once they stop buggin you, relent, god doesnt like the aggressors"... i dont see anything wrong here either...

Quran does grand permission to take up arms, ONLY IF YOU ARE ATTACKED. but we dont read the whole thing, and when we do, we read it in arabic and we cant get it... i myself have only read 25% of it...my mom finished the entire book in farsi and i can ask her stuff.

i try to remember god everyday, and be nice and pay (money) to charity...this is what it means. i dont see anything wrong here.

if you think that means "go kill the guy who doesnt agree with you" then the EXTEREMISTS will use the same logic and do just that... but it doesnt say that.

you know, i would love it, if iran wasnt ruled by fake "pious" (yea right!) men....but i like to be free to practice my religion, and i wouldnt force anythin on any other person...this is what its all about.

ne ways, lets stay on the real subject which is WHY ASHTAR KEEPS SUPPORTING IRI. I THINK ME AND PB are the best persons to argue with him here on this one.

keyvan_pars · Mar 9, 2006

R_E_Z_A said:

That will happen in time too. Just look to your west assholes like Saddam and chemical ali and that Fucker Tariq Aziz who were proud of killing thousands of persian NAJES...they used to fire their guns in the air and "GOH KHORDAN E ZIADEE"...

what happened to those "koon taalaagh toolooghs"...

the turn of your bodies will come too, one at a time.

tajrish · Mar 10, 2006

I have one more question for you:

Could you tell us if this regime has been better to us Iranians than the previous one?

Just keep it honest.

AMirza · Mar 10, 2006

Here is my question:

Can one believe in basic Human Rights - i.e. All humans are EQUAL regardless of gender, or faith - and still believe in the ISlamic Repulic ??

The answer is NO

AliMR · Mar 10, 2006

AMirza said:

dont ask him questions that stands against his version of "islam"...i bet he has answers for these already.

ask him something that mullahs do that is against his own book, where he cant refute it.

adam · Mar 10, 2006

PLease speak for yourself.

Mehman · Mar 10, 2006

Ashtar has become quite a celebrity here. LOL

While the "Attention" is on Ashtar, can I give a shout out?

All the best on your endeavors.

ME · Mar 10, 2006

R_E_Z_A said:

Can you please elaborate the % and your source? Because I was old enough to be in "jebheh"!
I also agree with you that some considerable number of talabeh were also killed defending Iran. But how many of the high ranking mullahs or their sons were really in the battlefield? We all know about Rafsanjanis kids in Belgium, Karroubis kids managing Boniad Shahid's football team,....

Persian_Beauty · Mar 10, 2006

beystr said:

Very interesting! If you actually study Quran and "True Islam" you would know in Islam there is NO FORCE to be a believer!!!! Islamic “LAWS” that governs a country is 100% opposite of the teaching of Islam!!....
The so called Islamic Republic of Iran is FORCING people to “dress” and act as if they are Muslims...Imam Ali in “Nahjolbalagheh” says:

شجاع ترين مردم آن است كه حرف حق را بزند

* هرگز كسي‌ را به‌ مبارزه‌ و جنگجويي‌ دعوت‌ نكن.
* روز دادستاني‌ و عدالت‌ از ظ‌الم‌، سختتر از روز ستم‌ بر ستمديده‌ است.
* حكومت‌ خود را با ريختن‌ خون‌ حرام‌، استوار نكن‌.
* هرگز ياور ستمكار نباش‌.
* حكمت‌ را با نااهل‌ نگوييد كه‌ به‌ حكمت‌ ستم‌ كرده‌ايد.

http://www.imamali.com/fa/f-hadis.html

This is farmayeshateh Imam Ali!!!! Tell me which one of these are followed by Rafsanjani and his Mullah Gang!!! Mullah bazi is just a making money in the name of "allah"..Dokoon baz kardan be nameh khoda!!!

By the way since you mentioned a lot of Talabeh's died in Iran-Iraq war, I like to know out of ONE MILLION Iranians who died how many of them were Mullahs??? There are Jews, Armenians and Bahais who also died in Iran-Iraq war...What do you think of that??? Mullahs take credit fir that too???

Come on! Try giving me something better than that...
Love and PEACE for all...Muslims, Christians, Jews and the rest! We are all created "Equally"....No religion should be FORCED on anyone!!! I am a Muslim by choice not by force!!!

Ya Ali...
PB...:Iran1:

Persian_Beauty · Mar 10, 2006

ME said:

These Talabehs died for "Islam" not "Iran". ask any mullah and they will tell you...They call them "Shaheed" of Islam not Iran!!!
Iran is the place they are using as their "Sangar" for causing trouble around the World...

Love & Peace!!!
PB..

ME · Mar 10, 2006

Persian_Beauty said:

You are right, in general they were brainwashed kids those days. There were exceptions though.

AliMR · Mar 10, 2006

Persian_Beauty said:

AGREE 800%

shahinc · Mar 10, 2006

PB khanom, were u satisfied with R_E_Z_A 's answers

keyvan_pars · Mar 10, 2006

Persian_Beauty said:

no matter what these kesaafat akhounds call it, they died for our country and for us and our families.

otherwise now tehran would be called Al-Tehran and our people would be speaking their CHADOR NESHIN UGLY LANGUAGE.

Persian_Beauty · Mar 10, 2006

keyvan_pars said:

What's the difference now!? People in Iran dont wear chador and are not Arab Parast???

Shah should have done what Atta Turk did to the Mullahs in Turkey!!!!!

PB..

Persian_Beauty · Mar 10, 2006

R_E_Z_A said:

Persian Beauty jan,

I try to explain your questions? I hope ashtar does'nt mind.

First of all, if me or any other individual defends actions of the Islamic government and what they "stand for" this is what we defend, we defend "what they stand for". Along the line there is no dubt there are mistakes and mis-interpretations by scholars, but generally the Islamic Republic is a representation of Islamic government, not a perfect one, but one which tries and along the way corrects its ways to be closer to what Islam actually is.

Sorry, what part of the IRI laws is equal to Islam’s??? In Islam, they throw pebbles as a sign of embarrassment for a punishment, in Iran; they throw huge rocks where the person DIES from it…Barbarian laws do not apply to Islam …At least not the real Islamic rules!

This is true according to Islam suicide is harAm. That is why the Islamic govermnet has never encouraged suicide bombing. Unlike Al-Qaeda, Taliban and Mujahedin Khalgh whom all consider themselves Islamic and the Islamic Republic of Iran a big enemy of them. As far as I know Iranian government officially does'nt condemn the suicide bombing by Palestinians against the Zionist occupiers. However, I have heard on many occasions Shiaat and Sunni scholars say suicide bombing is harAm. Why Iran does'nt condemn the suicide bombing by Palsetinian laudly and officially? I can say that Iran sympathizies with Palestinian people. Palestinians have no other means of defending their occupied land. What would Americans/Iranians/Europeans/Japanese would do if their land was occupied and the biggest superpower was against them? Just put yourself in place of those young palestinians boys whose father was beaten infront of him, his house destroyed and his land was taken, his brother/sister was killed? would you then listen to peaceful solution to your cause??

Education! Education! Education! Two wrongs don't make it right! I have NO Support for any government that has harsh intentions for innocent people. However, Zionist...IRI are all hurting their own people first before harming other countries,,,Frankly, my heart goes out to Palestinians but my main concern at this point is IRAN and Iranians. Suicide is only an uneducated decision with no positive solution! Suicide=Punishing others!

I dont know how old you are. But when I was in Jebheh, I came across a few Mullas/talabeh who were fighting alongside us. For your information Mullas/talabehs have the highest percentage of Shaheeds of Iran-Iraq war per population amongst all other groups.

1 million Iranians died during Iraq-Iran war..How many Mullahs (%wise)died? "Highest percentage means more than 50% to me"...unless you prove it to me Statistically I won't buy it...Sorry!

This is indeed a stupid philosophy. Shahadat is a very nobel thing and is not earned so easily. I also think its wrong to call them shaheed, but hey probably this is to give their family some support. I agree its wrong to call them shaheed, but I dont condemn a whole system because they call their innocently killed people shaheed.

Great! We do agree on this point!!!!

I see you love Iran, just like me and all others here on this discussion borad. I also belive if some day "zaboonam lAl" Iran was occupied and planned to be wiped out of the world's map, me, you and anyone else would defend our land using any means we have in our hand, and some of us may even do suicide bombing, just like palestinians.

I will only defend Iran if it's being attacked...I do not attack nor will I ever kill innocent people as a Suicide bomber!!!!!!

Peace and love for all..:Iran1:
PB..

Toofan · Mar 10, 2006

hmm...

I wonder where ashtar is..

ashtar · Mar 10, 2006

Persian_Beauty said:

1st of all, just because you offered me to ask you any question I had don’t assume the same from me. I never offered you that luxury. As I said before, I come here mostly to read and share news (sports, politics, or otherwise). I could care less if you like or don’t like IR.

2nd, Just because I question and point out baseless claims, false accusations, misinformation by certain members here, and try to show the other side of the coin as well, it doesn’t mean I’m supporting the other side. It merely means I support seeing the full picture and that I don’t support accepting whatever half-baked idea, baseless claims or lies that others try to feed me because of their own political bias. Just because someone doesn’t support the way Neo-cons attacked Iraq it doesn’t mean that they automatically supported Saddam, does it? This philosophy of "you’re either with us or against us" is a moronic philosophy.

3rd, I really neither have the time nor the inclination to get in to personal beliefs. What I personally believe has and will have no bearing on the truth, facts, and what is happening in the world. If you want to question or criticize the news, facts, or pictures that I post that’s one thing but questioning my own personal beliefs is a waste of your and more importantly my time.

4th, right off the bat let me tell you that I don’t believe that everything that IR does (and even more especially many of the things that many Akhoonds say and do) are Islamic, correct, ethical, or necessarily defendable. But just because I don’t think some of the things they do are right doesn’t automatically mean that I think everything they say or do is wrong. As I’ve said many times before, unlike you guys I don’t see things as purely black OR white.

Now to your questions:

This is a loaded question. You’re asking me to tell you what goes on in the minds of all the different Mullahs? I’m afraid I don’t have the psychic ability your looking for. But if you were asking me about the rational behind a certain official policy then I might be able to give you a reasonably acceptable personal deduction, understanding or rational. IMO as far as I know IR has never officially discouraged "suicide bombers" because this phenomena has never been either an Iranian problem nor a Shiite problem (where one may argue the Shiite Mullahs have some sort of religious authority). Other than in the field of battle where Iranian soldiers may have sacrificed their own lives to save the lives of others I CHALLENGE YOU to name me one other place where Iranians in anyway affiliated with IR have EVER undertaken such act. There are bunch of "k.. khols" who now a days may go around and signup volunteers for possible suicide missions in case Iran is attacked or occupied but as far as I know that is not an official IR policy and any reasonable person can deduce that is more for showmanship values rather than any real threat. The Shiites in Lebanon or Iraq have never undertaken any such actions either (at least in any significant number or as a group policy). So why would anyone go out of their way to officially discourage an act that is a none-issue for them? It’s like asking why doesn’t US officially condemn the printing of Prophet’s cartoons in EU? Well, because that is a non-issue for US and why should they go out of their way and talk about something that is not their problem?

That is a long answer to avoid getting in to an even longer answer about the philosophical and ethical difference between a person who has given up hope committing suicide and a hopeful soldier/fighter/person going on what might be tantamount to a suicide mission.

What 16, 17 year-old kids are you talking about? I have to assume you’re going back to the Iran-Iraq war. In that instance, as Reza already pointed out to you there were many Mullahs and Talabehs who fought and died on the frontlines along with others. There were hundreds and thousands of them who were assassinated in the early days of the revolution. The main officials may not themselves have gone to the frontline of the battlefields for the same reason that a military general doesn’t pickup a rifle and risk his life in the very frontline. Because times and styles of war have changed from 1500 years ago. Different people have different responsibilities in war. They even discouraged doctors from going to the frontlines and encouraged them to stay back and treat the wounded where they were more effective. But I wont deny that some of them were just scared punks who told others to fight but didn’t believe in what they preached. Those kinds of people exist everywhere in the world and are neither unique to IR or Iran or any other place or people in the world.

Yes I can. It has to do with what a person’s definition of Shahid. I’m not a religious expert so I couldn’t tell you what is the correct interpretation of Shahid. But from my lay understanding Shahid means martyr, which is a person who dies for their convictions or religious faith. In Islam it is typically referred to a person who dies (not necessarily killed by enemy's sword) in a Jihad (holly war). Thus a person who dies in the battlefield from a grenade accidentally exploding will equally be considered a Shahid as a person who is shot in the head by the enemy’s bullet.

Now if you accept that any act for the sake of promoting or defending your religion is considered a form of Jihad (jihad e akbar vs jihad e asghar and all that stuff) then logically one can see that t a person whose mission was promoting the faith and religion but is killed in that path be it from an enemy’s bullet or a plane crash or electrocution may also be considered a Sahid.

Of course, to the real believers what is important is whether GOD will consider them a Shahid or not. The labels given by any official or government is only good for making their living families feel a little better and perhaps enjoy some financial benefits that comes with their dead loved one carrying that title.

adam · Mar 10, 2006

Asahtar,

Can you please tell me what do you like about IR and what you don't like about IR? This is a very simple question. Isn't it?

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