How is this shameful? TILTH here is giving us the understanding not to have anal sex! Quran is not going to tell you "dont fu*k her a$$, break her back and make her humble old country style!!!!"
the TILTH here is given for us as a metaphor to understand that when you plow a field, you put seeds in it, for something to grow. same here. and if you were a farmer you would take care of your fields, its something valuable to you. so i dont know what you see as shameful here!!!
this is in the context of what is forbidden. see previous ayah 4:23
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:23 Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin [by marrying their daughters]; and [forbidden to you are] the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and [you are forbidden] to have two sisters [as your wives] at one and the same time - but what is past is past: [25] for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:24 And [forbidden to you are] all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess [through wedlock]: [26] this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all [women] beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, [27] taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after [having agreed upon] this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything [else]: [28] behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.[/FONT]
[/quote]
Whats so shameful here?
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]33:50 O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, [57] as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. [58] And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; [59] and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: [60] [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [61] [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace –[/FONT]
57-As pointed out in several places (see, in particular, note 32 on 4:25), Islam does not countenance any form of concubinage, and categorically prohibits sexual relations between a man and a woman unless they are lawfully married to one another. In this respect, the only difference between a "free" woman and a slave is that whereas the former must receive a dower from her husband, no such obligation is imposed on a man who marries his rightfully owned slave (lit., "one whom his right hand possesses") - that is, a woman taken captive in a "war" (jihad) waged in defense of the Faith or of liberty (note 167 on 2:190 and note 72 on 8:67) -: for, in such a case, the freedom conferred upon the bride by the very act of marriage is considered to be equivalent to a dower.(Quran Ref: 33:50 )
whats shameful? being with the same old woman (khadija) in a free society for 28 years? in a society that men could have had unlimited number of wives?
and i have explained the 6yr 9 year old a million times. only if you had an ounce of honesty in you, you would have read what i said in the same thread!
* According to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married. Sira, Ibn Hisham, Vol. 1, Pg. 227
* Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e *umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Pg 38
* Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, Pg. 50
* According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, Pg. 377
* According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
* According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
and i am sorry, i dont "SUGAR QUOTE" anything... i think you were trying to say SUGARCOAT????
here are some more quotes about women from the Quran:
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]2:231 And so, when you divorce women and they are about to reach the end of their waiting-term, then either retain them in a fair manner or let them go in a fair manner. But do not retain them against their will in order to hurt [them]: for he who does so sins indeed against himself. And do not take [these] messages of God in a frivolous spirit; and remember the blessings with which God has graced you, and all the revelation and the wisdom which He has bestowed on you from on high in order to admonish you thereby; and remain conscious of God, and know that God has full knowledge of everything.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]2:232 And when you divorce women, and they have come to the end of their waiting-term, hinder them not from marrying other men if they have agreed with each other in a fair manner. This is an admonition unto every one of you who believes in God and the Last Day; it is the most virtuous [way] for you, and the cleanest. And God knows, whereas you do not know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:4 And give unto women their marriage portions in the spirit of a gift; [5] but if they, of their own accord, give up unto you aught thereof, then enjoy it with pleasure and good cheer.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:7 MEN SHALL have a share in what parents and kinsfolk leave behind, and women shall have a share in what parents and kinsfolk leave behind, whether it be little or much - a share ordained [by God].
*given in a society where women were as chattel.*
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:19 O YOU who have attained to faith! It is not lawful for you to [try to] become heirs to your wives [by holding onto them] against their will; [17] and neither shall you keep them under constraint with a view to taking away anything of what you may have given them, unless it be that they have become guilty, in an obvious man*ner, of immoral conduct. [18] And consort with your wives [19] in a goodly manner; for if you dislike them, it may well be that you dislike something which God might yet make a source of [20] abundant good.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:32 Hence, do not covet the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on some of you than on others. Men shall have a benefit from what they earn, and women shall have a benefit from what they earn. Ask, therefore, God [to give you] out of His bounty: behold, God has indeed full knowledge of everything.
*women can work and earn, but its not upon them to financially support the family since men are supposed to be maintainers, caretakers of women*
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:34 MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, [42] and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the right*eous women are the truly devout ones (to God), who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guar*ded. [43] And as for those women whose ill-will [44] you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; [45] and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]9:72 God has promised the believers, both men and women, gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and goodly dwellings in gardens of perpetual bliss: [100] but God's goodly acceptance is the greatest [bliss of all] -for this, this is the triumph supreme!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]24:4 And as for those who accuse chaste women [of adultery], [6] and then are unable to produce four witnesses [in support of their accusation], flog them with eighty stripes [7] and ever after refuse to accept from them any testimony - since it is they, they that are truly depraved!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]24:60 AND [83] [know that] women advanced in years, who no longer feel any sexual desire, [84] incur no sin if they discard their [outer] garments, provided they do not aim at a showy display of [their] charms. But [even so,] it is better for them to abstain [from this]: and God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]33:35 VERILY, for all men and women who have sur*rendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves [before God], and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, [38] and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, [39] and all men and women who remember God unceasingly: for [all of] them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward.
*why say man, woman, man, woman, man, woman* ? to show equality. also both MAN and WOMAN are both mentioned the same number of times in the Quran. what does that tell u?
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all [other] believing women, that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments [when in public]: this will be more con*ducive to their being recognized [as decent women] and not annoyed. [74] But [withal,] God is indeed much- forgiving, a dispenser of grace! [75]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]48:5 [and] that He might admit the believers, both men and women, into gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and that He might efface their [past bad] deeds: and that is, in the sight of God, indeed a triumph supreme!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]57:18 Verily, as for the men and women who accept the truth as true [26] and who [thus] offer up unto God a goodly loan, they will be amply repaid, [27] and shall have a noble reward [in the life to come].
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]65:1 O PROPHET! When you [1] [intend to divorce women, divorce them with a view to the waiting period appointed for them, [2] and reckon the period [carefully], and be conscious of God, your Sustainer. Do not expel them from their homes; [3] and neither shall they [be made to] leave [4] unless they become openly guilty of immoral conduct. [5] These, then, are the bounds set by God - and he who transgresses the bounds set by God does indeed sin against himself: [for, O man, although] thou knowest it not, after that [first breach] God may well cause something new to come about. [6]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]65:6 [Hence,] let the women [who are undergoing a waiting-period for divorce] live in the same manner as you live yourselves, [12] In accordance with your means; and do not harass them with a view to making their lives a misery. And if they happen to be with child, spend freely on them until they deliver their burden; and if they nurse your offspring [after the divorce has become final], give them their [due] recompense; and take counsel with one another in a fair manner [about the child's future]. And if both of you find it difficult [that the mother should nurse the child], [13] let another woman nurse it on behalf of him [who has begotten it]. [14]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]85:10 Verily, as for those who persecute believing men and believing women, and thereafter do not repent, hell's suffering awaits them: yea, suffering through fire awaits them
[/FONT]
the TILTH here is given for us as a metaphor to understand that when you plow a field, you put seeds in it, for something to grow. same here. and if you were a farmer you would take care of your fields, its something valuable to you. so i dont know what you see as shameful here!!!
this is in the context of what is forbidden. see previous ayah 4:23
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:23 Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin [by marrying their daughters]; and [forbidden to you are] the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and [you are forbidden] to have two sisters [as your wives] at one and the same time - but what is past is past: [25] for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:24 And [forbidden to you are] all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess [through wedlock]: [26] this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all [women] beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, [27] taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after [having agreed upon] this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything [else]: [28] behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.[/FONT]
[/quote]
Whats so shameful here?
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]33:50 O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, [57] as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. [58] And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; [59] and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: [60] [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [61] [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace –[/FONT]
57-As pointed out in several places (see, in particular, note 32 on 4:25), Islam does not countenance any form of concubinage, and categorically prohibits sexual relations between a man and a woman unless they are lawfully married to one another. In this respect, the only difference between a "free" woman and a slave is that whereas the former must receive a dower from her husband, no such obligation is imposed on a man who marries his rightfully owned slave (lit., "one whom his right hand possesses") - that is, a woman taken captive in a "war" (jihad) waged in defense of the Faith or of liberty (note 167 on 2:190 and note 72 on 8:67) -: for, in such a case, the freedom conferred upon the bride by the very act of marriage is considered to be equivalent to a dower.(Quran Ref: 33:50 )
whats shameful? being with the same old woman (khadija) in a free society for 28 years? in a society that men could have had unlimited number of wives?
and i have explained the 6yr 9 year old a million times. only if you had an ounce of honesty in you, you would have read what i said in the same thread!
* According to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married. Sira, Ibn Hisham, Vol. 1, Pg. 227
* Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e *umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Pg 38
* Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, Pg. 50
* According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, Pg. 377
* According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
* According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
and i am sorry, i dont "SUGAR QUOTE" anything... i think you were trying to say SUGARCOAT????
here are some more quotes about women from the Quran:
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]2:231 And so, when you divorce women and they are about to reach the end of their waiting-term, then either retain them in a fair manner or let them go in a fair manner. But do not retain them against their will in order to hurt [them]: for he who does so sins indeed against himself. And do not take [these] messages of God in a frivolous spirit; and remember the blessings with which God has graced you, and all the revelation and the wisdom which He has bestowed on you from on high in order to admonish you thereby; and remain conscious of God, and know that God has full knowledge of everything.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]2:232 And when you divorce women, and they have come to the end of their waiting-term, hinder them not from marrying other men if they have agreed with each other in a fair manner. This is an admonition unto every one of you who believes in God and the Last Day; it is the most virtuous [way] for you, and the cleanest. And God knows, whereas you do not know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:4 And give unto women their marriage portions in the spirit of a gift; [5] but if they, of their own accord, give up unto you aught thereof, then enjoy it with pleasure and good cheer.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:7 MEN SHALL have a share in what parents and kinsfolk leave behind, and women shall have a share in what parents and kinsfolk leave behind, whether it be little or much - a share ordained [by God].
*given in a society where women were as chattel.*
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:19 O YOU who have attained to faith! It is not lawful for you to [try to] become heirs to your wives [by holding onto them] against their will; [17] and neither shall you keep them under constraint with a view to taking away anything of what you may have given them, unless it be that they have become guilty, in an obvious man*ner, of immoral conduct. [18] And consort with your wives [19] in a goodly manner; for if you dislike them, it may well be that you dislike something which God might yet make a source of [20] abundant good.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:32 Hence, do not covet the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on some of you than on others. Men shall have a benefit from what they earn, and women shall have a benefit from what they earn. Ask, therefore, God [to give you] out of His bounty: behold, God has indeed full knowledge of everything.
*women can work and earn, but its not upon them to financially support the family since men are supposed to be maintainers, caretakers of women*
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:34 MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, [42] and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the right*eous women are the truly devout ones (to God), who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guar*ded. [43] And as for those women whose ill-will [44] you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; [45] and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]9:72 God has promised the believers, both men and women, gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and goodly dwellings in gardens of perpetual bliss: [100] but God's goodly acceptance is the greatest [bliss of all] -for this, this is the triumph supreme!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]24:4 And as for those who accuse chaste women [of adultery], [6] and then are unable to produce four witnesses [in support of their accusation], flog them with eighty stripes [7] and ever after refuse to accept from them any testimony - since it is they, they that are truly depraved!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]24:60 AND [83] [know that] women advanced in years, who no longer feel any sexual desire, [84] incur no sin if they discard their [outer] garments, provided they do not aim at a showy display of [their] charms. But [even so,] it is better for them to abstain [from this]: and God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]33:35 VERILY, for all men and women who have sur*rendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves [before God], and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, [38] and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, [39] and all men and women who remember God unceasingly: for [all of] them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward.
*why say man, woman, man, woman, man, woman* ? to show equality. also both MAN and WOMAN are both mentioned the same number of times in the Quran. what does that tell u?
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all [other] believing women, that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments [when in public]: this will be more con*ducive to their being recognized [as decent women] and not annoyed. [74] But [withal,] God is indeed much- forgiving, a dispenser of grace! [75]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]48:5 [and] that He might admit the believers, both men and women, into gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and that He might efface their [past bad] deeds: and that is, in the sight of God, indeed a triumph supreme!
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]57:18 Verily, as for the men and women who accept the truth as true [26] and who [thus] offer up unto God a goodly loan, they will be amply repaid, [27] and shall have a noble reward [in the life to come].
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]65:1 O PROPHET! When you [1] [intend to divorce women, divorce them with a view to the waiting period appointed for them, [2] and reckon the period [carefully], and be conscious of God, your Sustainer. Do not expel them from their homes; [3] and neither shall they [be made to] leave [4] unless they become openly guilty of immoral conduct. [5] These, then, are the bounds set by God - and he who transgresses the bounds set by God does indeed sin against himself: [for, O man, although] thou knowest it not, after that [first breach] God may well cause something new to come about. [6]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]65:6 [Hence,] let the women [who are undergoing a waiting-period for divorce] live in the same manner as you live yourselves, [12] In accordance with your means; and do not harass them with a view to making their lives a misery. And if they happen to be with child, spend freely on them until they deliver their burden; and if they nurse your offspring [after the divorce has become final], give them their [due] recompense; and take counsel with one another in a fair manner [about the child's future]. And if both of you find it difficult [that the mother should nurse the child], [13] let another woman nurse it on behalf of him [who has begotten it]. [14]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]85:10 Verily, as for those who persecute believing men and believing women, and thereafter do not repent, hell's suffering awaits them: yea, suffering through fire awaits them
[/FONT]
Just by reading the reply to the first Ayeh one can see where you are coming from. If I am to speak to you in your own language I will tell you that a "farmer will only enter the field when its beneficial for both sides and when the crop will actually result, not when he wishes and its not planting season" The quran has low regards for women and it actually saying to men that they can enter their field when ever they want. Meaning its them who decide when to have sex with their wives or not. She has no say in it. Its a male dominated society and muslims can do what ever they want to women. And also the next one that you indicated is the following of a forbidden ayeh also shows islams high regards for women and how much of a womenizer the prophet is. As all women are open to him for having and when ever he wished a new Ayeh would be popping up. Lets not forget the story of zeyd (not sure if my memory serves me right, his step son) and how Muhamad made him divorce his wife and took her for him self. Or the wife of the Bani Quraizeh Chief who Muhamad slept with after murdering her husband and her whole clan. You see Ali, Muhamad and the Quran have low regards to human life and societies and specially women. They use them and abuse them whenever they want. There is no hiding there as the Quran is what it is and you can not hide the truth by trying to show it as something its not. A man who orders the killing of so many in a day and then sleeps with their wives is not a prophet, he is a heartless murderer with no regards to humanity and ethics.
Ps: Muhamad for a simple worker who worked for Khadije for all those years. She was the boss and he followed what ever she said. You see women were actually powerful in Arabia before Islam took over and took all their rights. She was the head of the family and muhamad did what ever she wanted. It doesnt take a genius to figure out his motives since right after she dies he starts sleeping with whoever he can get his hands on.
Ps: Muhamad for a simple worker who worked for Khadije for all those years. She was the boss and he followed what ever she said. You see women were actually powerful in Arabia before Islam took over and took all their rights. She was the head of the family and muhamad did what ever she wanted. It doesnt take a genius to figure out his motives since right after she dies he starts sleeping with whoever he can get his hands on.
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eace:wrong and wrong. you are inserting your own wrong understanding that has no bearing on any moslim ideology. ill explain again, maybe ur not going to ignore ur intelligence this time. "[2:223] Your wives are a tilth for you...." basically means dont have anal sex. Quran is a sober book and is not going to explicitly say it so a metaphor is used.
your understanding is the EXACT opposite of the Quran says.
[2:223] Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.
you cannot force urself on ur wife, i mean you can try if thats your thing, but wife doesnt have to accept ur advances everytime. woman has a say in everything. The prophet (sa) even consulted with Khadija before going to a fight or an expedition. when i say you dont know anything, this is how you prove me right.[/quote]
what the heck are you talking about? i dont know if i should laugh or cry at your understanding... care to explain ur logic?
where does it say all women are open to him? Quran says the exact opposite! man you have no sense! not only your sentences dont make sense, your logic doesnt make sense either. if you are going to throw out allegations, back it up!!! you said "all women are open to him for having" (bad sentence structure, but whatever!!!) SHOW ME THE VERSE, if you can't you prove ur a liar or an imbecile.
regarding Zaid, first of all, again you lied or mispoke or showed you dont know what ur talking about. it was Zaid's wife who wanted to divorce him... the prophet did not force her. you lied.
33:37 "Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: 'Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.' But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then Zayd had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), we joined her in marriage to thee: In order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in (the matter) of marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled."
regarding your "bani Quraizah"... why dont you tell the entire story?
Moslims and jews of BANU QURAIZAH had a treaty that during any fighting with polytheists, they would all defend each other. during the heat of the battle (of khandagh) the jews turned their back on the moslims, committing treason. (whats the punishment for treason in the west? )... after the moslims defeated the polytheists, they turned their attention to the treacherous banu quraizah. moslims attached them for 25 days lead by Ali (ra).
after the moslims over powered the jews, the prophet offered the jews to chose their own arbitrator. jews chose [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sa'ad b Muadh (a jew) who asked his people, if they like to be punished by islamic law, or the jewish law. the jews chose to be judged by their own law..."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sa'ad consulted the Jewish rabbis, and asked of them the question, "If in a battle against the Muslims you would have won, and taken the Muslim men and woman captive, how would you have treated the captives under the Jews law?" They said that in that case they would have killed the men and sold the women and children as slaves. Thereupon Sa'ad gave his verdict that all male adults of the Banu Quraizah should be killed and their women and children should be sold as slaves."
After the jews lost to moslims, they (jews) decided to be punished by their own law.
so why not tell the whole story? why lie and make up ur own history??
[/FONT]
my God! your ignorance of islam is limitless. Quran has no regards for human life? do you know what Quran says about the sanctity of human life? dont try patronize me with ur comments because they are beyond stupid.
there is no sense in lying like you are doing. there is no sense in your maghlate baazi. Quran is open for everyone to read. what you are saying is almost like trying to argue that Quran promotes polytheism!!!
and again you made the idiotic, uneducated statement of prophet murdering the jews!!! you have no idea of the history, or you are just a plain liar.
this is the most laughable thing i have heard. khadija was an anomaly. two minutes ago you were describing arabs as a male dominated society, now all of the sudden you claim pre-islamic arabs were the promoters of feminist values!!!
Khadija was the head of the family? prove it. yes she was rich, but the man of the house was still the head of the household. in any arab culture the male is the head of the family. where is your proof? why would this rich lady marry a "simple worker"? ever asked urself that? and all prophets wives, except for aisha, were all OLD, WIDOWS. why would the prophet marry old widows who bore him no child? tell me why! is it other than the fact that he was helping these women when they had no one to protect them? no its not.
you know what i find funny? first you people say mohammad (sa) was a chauvinistic womanizer, next minute you say she was a wuss and zan zalil. make up your mind already. i mean we know he helped with the chores of the house unlike any other arab, we also know his word was the final in his house hold and for moslim affairs, we also know he consulted his wife in many things.... looks like his exemplary character left you in a dilly of a pickle.
this is hilarious, all of the sudden, the same pre-islamic arabs that burried their new born daughters, the same arabs who could have UNLIMITED number of wives, and who were owners of their wives, have become the beacon of women rights! i dont know man, you have a pretty wild imagination there.
You said "islam took away the womens rights"... again you're hallucinating. all you have to do is read the post i made above about what Quran says about women and how it gives them their full due.
PS.
there is a little something called the "enter" key. you use it to create paragraphs so people can read your nonsense. either you dont know how to write, or you are trying to just post something without any regards for its readability.
your understanding is the EXACT opposite of the Quran says.
[2:223] Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.
you cannot force urself on ur wife, i mean you can try if thats your thing, but wife doesnt have to accept ur advances everytime. woman has a say in everything. The prophet (sa) even consulted with Khadija before going to a fight or an expedition. when i say you dont know anything, this is how you prove me right.[/quote]
what the heck are you talking about? i dont know if i should laugh or cry at your understanding... care to explain ur logic?
where does it say all women are open to him? Quran says the exact opposite! man you have no sense! not only your sentences dont make sense, your logic doesnt make sense either. if you are going to throw out allegations, back it up!!! you said "all women are open to him for having" (bad sentence structure, but whatever!!!) SHOW ME THE VERSE, if you can't you prove ur a liar or an imbecile.
regarding Zaid, first of all, again you lied or mispoke or showed you dont know what ur talking about. it was Zaid's wife who wanted to divorce him... the prophet did not force her. you lied.
33:37 "Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: 'Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.' But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then Zayd had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), we joined her in marriage to thee: In order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in (the matter) of marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled."
regarding your "bani Quraizah"... why dont you tell the entire story?
Moslims and jews of BANU QURAIZAH had a treaty that during any fighting with polytheists, they would all defend each other. during the heat of the battle (of khandagh) the jews turned their back on the moslims, committing treason. (whats the punishment for treason in the west? )... after the moslims defeated the polytheists, they turned their attention to the treacherous banu quraizah. moslims attached them for 25 days lead by Ali (ra).
after the moslims over powered the jews, the prophet offered the jews to chose their own arbitrator. jews chose [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sa'ad b Muadh (a jew) who asked his people, if they like to be punished by islamic law, or the jewish law. the jews chose to be judged by their own law..."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sa'ad consulted the Jewish rabbis, and asked of them the question, "If in a battle against the Muslims you would have won, and taken the Muslim men and woman captive, how would you have treated the captives under the Jews law?" They said that in that case they would have killed the men and sold the women and children as slaves. Thereupon Sa'ad gave his verdict that all male adults of the Banu Quraizah should be killed and their women and children should be sold as slaves."
After the jews lost to moslims, they (jews) decided to be punished by their own law.
so why not tell the whole story? why lie and make up ur own history??
[/FONT]
my God! your ignorance of islam is limitless. Quran has no regards for human life? do you know what Quran says about the sanctity of human life? dont try patronize me with ur comments because they are beyond stupid.
there is no sense in lying like you are doing. there is no sense in your maghlate baazi. Quran is open for everyone to read. what you are saying is almost like trying to argue that Quran promotes polytheism!!!
and again you made the idiotic, uneducated statement of prophet murdering the jews!!! you have no idea of the history, or you are just a plain liar.
this is the most laughable thing i have heard. khadija was an anomaly. two minutes ago you were describing arabs as a male dominated society, now all of the sudden you claim pre-islamic arabs were the promoters of feminist values!!!
Khadija was the head of the family? prove it. yes she was rich, but the man of the house was still the head of the household. in any arab culture the male is the head of the family. where is your proof? why would this rich lady marry a "simple worker"? ever asked urself that? and all prophets wives, except for aisha, were all OLD, WIDOWS. why would the prophet marry old widows who bore him no child? tell me why! is it other than the fact that he was helping these women when they had no one to protect them? no its not.
you know what i find funny? first you people say mohammad (sa) was a chauvinistic womanizer, next minute you say she was a wuss and zan zalil. make up your mind already. i mean we know he helped with the chores of the house unlike any other arab, we also know his word was the final in his house hold and for moslim affairs, we also know he consulted his wife in many things.... looks like his exemplary character left you in a dilly of a pickle.
this is hilarious, all of the sudden, the same pre-islamic arabs that burried their new born daughters, the same arabs who could have UNLIMITED number of wives, and who were owners of their wives, have become the beacon of women rights! i dont know man, you have a pretty wild imagination there.
You said "islam took away the womens rights"... again you're hallucinating. all you have to do is read the post i made above about what Quran says about women and how it gives them their full due.
PS.
there is a little something called the "enter" key. you use it to create paragraphs so people can read your nonsense. either you dont know how to write, or you are trying to just post something without any regards for its readability.
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I see it took you 6 or 7 days ro reply back. good to know what islamist are still around to reply with such "porooyee" and the usual lies that are put together. Unfortunetly I do know how time right now to expose the rest of your islamic lies so I will do so as soon as time permits. Just know that you can not continue on lying and putting together such lies as Muhamad and his gang have been exposed many times. They shall be exposed once again and you will come back with "islamic porooyee" and lie again in regards to this matter...
sorry i am not bikaro bi aar like you ke sob taa shab khodamo baa isp mashghool konam!!! porro toyee ke vaghti dahaneto baa javabam bastamo dandoonaat khoord shod bazam dari harto poort mikoni.
any way... is that all you got? "i dont have time" loool. beshin sare jaat aziz, you're knowledge level is too to debate me. all you people do is talk without anything to back you up.... just a bunch of BLAH BLAH is all hear from u. you got smashed and you know it.
any way... is that all you got? "i dont have time" loool. beshin sare jaat aziz, you're knowledge level is too to debate me. all you people do is talk without anything to back you up.... just a bunch of BLAH BLAH is all hear from u. you got smashed and you know it.