As an Iranian, we should keep this as our biggest secret as they will have to give us billions of dollars for damage, but the truth is a big YES. I remember in around 1980 I was living in a university dorm in the US and almost every day there were provoking statements by Khomeinin against Iraq to the extent that it remained to me no doubts that soon a war will start. I mentioned this to my roommate whose parents were heavily involved in stock market business. The mother took my advice and made few transactions that would generate profit if a war began. After a while when the war started the whole family were praising me and my intelligence (!) because they said "American mentality would have never taken Khomeini's boasting seriously, but you guys ..." well I became an intelligent hero in their eyes after that. I said the above just to let u that how obvious it was, and how stupid Saddam was who fell for the mollahs trick and started the attack first.
In Shah's time, Iraqi's territories were the exam field for the Army Schools, going inside Iraq, fulfilling a small mission, and get promoted, or graduate from the academy, but even then none of the parties officially accepted such relationships but when Khomeini started his Islamic-style threats Saddam fell for it ... may both rot in hell
In Shah's time, Iraqi's territories were the exam field for the Army Schools, going inside Iraq, fulfilling a small mission, and get promoted, or graduate from the academy, but even then none of the parties officially accepted such relationships but when Khomeini started his Islamic-style threats Saddam fell for it ... may both rot in hell
I remember reading that during the Shah's time his Generals wanted to go into Iraq and remove saddam but he told them not to do so. This was at about the time saddam had just gotten power and was fresh in office, before he had consolidated his power base. It makes one think of what would've happened if he had let the generals do this and have somebody in Iraq friendly to Iran from then on.
There's just too many what ifs though. What if the Shah had negotiated with Mossadegh for power sharing and transition to constitutional monarchy instead of trying to cling on to power? What if the mullahs hadn't purged the shah's military and how would this have effected the war? What if khomeini had stepped aside in favor of Bazargan running things and ordered the mullahs to go back to the mosque? What if Iran had kept up 9-10% yearly GDP growth from the shah's time and had kept population control measures as well? What if the revolution didn't happen and the Soviets then didn't decide to attack Afghanistan, would the USSR still be around? Come to think of it, 9/11 wouldn't have happened either since osama wouldn't have gone to Afghanistan.
Ultimately Iran has made so many mistakes over the last 30 years but it's all been a learning experience. Most people in Iran now know that mixing religion and politics doesn't work, and in the middle east, this is truly advanced. Most people in Iran don't really care about the whole Israel Palestine issue anymore, and most don't really hold the same anti-west views of 30 years ago. Yet it took all these pains of the last 30 years and even today to get to this point.
Poop and Burrito of now remind me of a sick person who needs to flush his body out of the illness and throw up and shit in order to get rid of the flu. Iran now needs Poop to show the true face of the revolution of 30 years ago and the ugliness that needs to be thrown up in order to finally get rid of this illness and have the patient get well. This illness is in large part also due to the shah's ineptness in letting his ego swell up to the point of being blinded to peoples' democratic desires. But I'm fairly hopeful that in the next 5-10 years this disease will finally be over with and the Iranian people will finally recover from war, devastation, extreme economic stagnation, misery, depression, isolation, and pure lies such that Iran will finally join the table of the world's nations that are on the path of prosperity and development akin to South Korea, Brazil, or Czech Republic today.
What's funny though is that the mullahs had a custom-made vaccine to this disease, and that was Khatami Presidency. If they had simply worked with him instead of against him the IRI could've stayed and simply been rid of its more evil components. But now it's crossed the point of no return after they didn't respect the peoples' votes, and there's really no turning back even if there's some sort of compromise from Mousavi or Rafsanjani or Karroubi even. This has really gone beyond all them and the more time goes by with Poop and Burrito sticking to their guns the greater the change will ultimately be.
There's just too many what ifs though. What if the Shah had negotiated with Mossadegh for power sharing and transition to constitutional monarchy instead of trying to cling on to power? What if the mullahs hadn't purged the shah's military and how would this have effected the war? What if khomeini had stepped aside in favor of Bazargan running things and ordered the mullahs to go back to the mosque? What if Iran had kept up 9-10% yearly GDP growth from the shah's time and had kept population control measures as well? What if the revolution didn't happen and the Soviets then didn't decide to attack Afghanistan, would the USSR still be around? Come to think of it, 9/11 wouldn't have happened either since osama wouldn't have gone to Afghanistan.
Ultimately Iran has made so many mistakes over the last 30 years but it's all been a learning experience. Most people in Iran now know that mixing religion and politics doesn't work, and in the middle east, this is truly advanced. Most people in Iran don't really care about the whole Israel Palestine issue anymore, and most don't really hold the same anti-west views of 30 years ago. Yet it took all these pains of the last 30 years and even today to get to this point.
Poop and Burrito of now remind me of a sick person who needs to flush his body out of the illness and throw up and shit in order to get rid of the flu. Iran now needs Poop to show the true face of the revolution of 30 years ago and the ugliness that needs to be thrown up in order to finally get rid of this illness and have the patient get well. This illness is in large part also due to the shah's ineptness in letting his ego swell up to the point of being blinded to peoples' democratic desires. But I'm fairly hopeful that in the next 5-10 years this disease will finally be over with and the Iranian people will finally recover from war, devastation, extreme economic stagnation, misery, depression, isolation, and pure lies such that Iran will finally join the table of the world's nations that are on the path of prosperity and development akin to South Korea, Brazil, or Czech Republic today.
What's funny though is that the mullahs had a custom-made vaccine to this disease, and that was Khatami Presidency. If they had simply worked with him instead of against him the IRI could've stayed and simply been rid of its more evil components. But now it's crossed the point of no return after they didn't respect the peoples' votes, and there's really no turning back even if there's some sort of compromise from Mousavi or Rafsanjani or Karroubi even. This has really gone beyond all them and the more time goes by with Poop and Burrito sticking to their guns the greater the change will ultimately be.
Let me say this though, even though Poop shows the true face of ugliness of the IRI the revolution 30 years ago was supposed to be about freedom, democracy, and independence. There was a lot of anger and demand for change, but the atmosphere was positive and about hope. What happened though is that the likes of Poop hijacked this hope and turned it into a moshpit of hate and ugliness, of derailing Iran's economy which was on par with South Korea back then and instead rerouting it on the North Korea track of economic and diplomatic isolation and demonization throughout the world. The word Iran now is known throughout the world as being synonymous with the word terrorism. Iranian passports are worth shit when travelling anywhere, even in the middle east. Clearly this wasn't the desire of those trying to change things 30 years ago in the revolution but became the outcome of the hijackers who tried to impose their own delusional mentalities onto the whole nation and ended up ridiculing Persians the world over with their hypocrisy and insanely extreme incompetence.
Absolutely not. Iran and Iraq had low level tensions and frictions since the sixities over the Arvand Roud. Thru their proxies (Kurds) the two countries were creating trouble for each other until the Algiers Accord was signed by the two countries and Iraq agreed with Iran's reasonable demand that the bordreline should be in the middle of Arvand Roud. Iran was clearly the stronger country in the 1970s so Saddam always thought Iraq was forced into acceptance. Right after the revolution, thru his agents and fifth column Iraq started to cause problem in Khusztan. Teymsar Madani who was the governor of Khueztan dealt them (the fifth column and Saddam's agent) a sever blow in Khuzestan. With this background, Saddam committed his first miscalculation and attacked Iran.
There are speeches by KHomeini as well indicating that he will Import Shiite Islam to their brothers in Iraq. Even though Sadaam always hated Iranians and could not stand Iran it was a two Way Street and Khomeini definitely did provoke Iraq. He made remarks that are seen as an act of aggression and war.
From a very reliable source that was very close to What was taking back then, Shah was given 2 options (And this was way before the situation got to the point of no return):
1. Leave the country and Place his son in power. He refused as he was too young.
2. A war with Iraq. He refused saying they are muslim brothers and he will not go to war with another Muslim country.
Khomeini accepted the offer of war. And quickly, out of nowhere, came to be the leader of the revolution.
The Iran-Iraq war was planned. It served well so many people. Powers selling weapons. Khomeini establishing his absolute power along with other akhoonds. Oppositions and other groups eliminated, on and on.
The only loosers were the Iranian and Iraqi people. The Iraqis having no choice having a madman in power. Iranians not knowing anything about Khamonie (not having read his book, sounds familiar with Iranians?) accepting him as leader and putting this madman in power.
1. Leave the country and Place his son in power. He refused as he was too young.
2. A war with Iraq. He refused saying they are muslim brothers and he will not go to war with another Muslim country.
Khomeini accepted the offer of war. And quickly, out of nowhere, came to be the leader of the revolution.
The Iran-Iraq war was planned. It served well so many people. Powers selling weapons. Khomeini establishing his absolute power along with other akhoonds. Oppositions and other groups eliminated, on and on.
The only loosers were the Iranian and Iraqi people. The Iraqis having no choice having a madman in power. Iranians not knowing anything about Khamonie (not having read his book, sounds familiar with Iranians?) accepting him as leader and putting this madman in power.
Najaf is the central in Shiite Islam and is superior to Qom. Exporting shiite Islam from Iran to عتبات is like زيره به کرمان بردن
Labod Kuwait ham Saddam ru provok kard, the mad dog did not need provocation. True IRI had terrible and one can say non existance foreign policies in those days but non country invade another country for silly remarks, remember Saddam was referring to Khuzestan as Arabstan before the war started which clearly showed his intentions to annex it.
Labod Kuwait ham Saddam ru provok kard, the mad dog did not need provocation. True IRI had terrible and one can say non existance foreign policies in those days but non country invade another country for silly remarks, remember Saddam was referring to Khuzestan as Arabstan before the war started which clearly showed his intentions to annex it.
Iraq started both the provocations and the war. Whoever says otherwise is ignorant. Just a few months after the success of revolution, Arab sepratists who were trained in Iraq and given money and bombs were planting bombs amongst civilians in Khuzestan. I was withness one explosion in Abadan (near a Cinema, dont remember which one), a bomb blew several people into small pieces. Iraqi surveilance Aircrafts were on Abadan every night with Iranian AAA firing everynight, it was a normal sight back then, way back before the war started. Saddam's k00n was burning that he had to sign a deal regarding Arvandrood and he was waiting for revenge for long time.
Iranpak said it, did Kuwait also provoke Saddam into war?
Iranpak said it, did Kuwait also provoke Saddam into war?
By indicating that Khomeini provoking Iraq does not mean that Saddam did not have intentions to attack Iran even from before that. Saddam always hated Iranians and seized the opportunity to attack Iran. There is no question about that. But Khomeini did make a lot of stupid remarks that are seen as signs of aggression and provoking someone into war. The newspaper piece on top of the page is proof of that.
I don`t think anyone here has any sympathy for Sadam and its war against Iran. He was a monster and I , for one, am very happy to see him gone the way he did. As for the war, there are probably some truth to both arguments. However, the fact is Iraq was ready to sign a peace treaty and with the help of KSA and Kuwait pay Iran for damages. After all KSA and Kuwait known to be financing the war on Iraq`s behalf. It is also a fact that Iran refused that offer and when the war where finally ended they got nothing in return.
Today, we are facing another war .. a more dangerous war .. our beloved country and our hamvatans are taken hostage by AN and his illegitimate government.. where rape and murder seem to be the rule of law ...
Today, we are facing another war .. a more dangerous war .. our beloved country and our hamvatans are taken hostage by AN and his illegitimate government.. where rape and murder seem to be the rule of law ...
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صدام می خواست جای جمال عبدالناصر را در بین اعراب پر کند
جمال عبدالناصر با محبوبیتی که در میان اعراب داشت توانست دو سه کشور عربی را متحد کند
چنانکه سوریه و مصر متحد شدن
ولی صدام از این محبوبیت در بین جماهیر عرب بر خوردار نبود
با تنش هایی که در زمان شاه بوجود اورد و جریان شط العرب می خواست پا جای پای عبدالناصر بگذارد
ولی شاه با فشاری که بوسیله کردهای استقلال طلب علیه صدام انجام داد باعث شد که پیمان الجزایر بین ایران و عراق بسته شود
همچنین صدام می دید که اگر بخواهد با ایران وارد جنگ شود نه تنها جهان انروز بلکه اعراب او را پشتیبانی نخواهند کرد
پادشاهان سعودی و برخی از سران عرب میانه خوبی با شاه ایران داشتند
وقتی که رژیم شاه کنار گذاشته شد صدام فرصت طلب دید بهترین وقت برای عبدالناصر بازیش فراهم شده
هم ارتش ایران تضعیف شده بود و هرج و مرج فراوانی در بین نیروهای مسلح وجود داشت
هم با این کار می خواست جای خالی شاه که به ژاندارم منطقه معروف بود را پر کند
در همان اویل از گروهای عرب جدایی طلب در خوزستان مانند خلق عرب پشتیبانی اشکارا می کرد
و موضوع جدایی خوزستان از ایران را پیش کشید
خود بنده شاهد بودم در ابادان این گروه با بمب گذاری های اویل انقلاب عده زیادی از مردم کوچه و بازار را کشتند
در اهواز و خرمشهر سوسنگرد و بقیه شهرستانها هم همینطور
مدتها قبل از جنگ انها یی که سن و سالی دارند می دانند هواپیماهای عراقی شب ها به اسمان مرزهای جنوبی ایران تجاوز می کردند
چند بار رژیم جوان و ناشی جمهوری اسلامی ایران به سازمان ملل شکایت کرد ولی کاری از پیش نبرد
تقصیر خمینی و رژیم نبود که صدام حمله کرد
همین الان هم اینگونه تشنجات را می توان در بین کشورهایی مانند سوریه و عراق
هندو پاکستان
سودان و مصر
و چند کشور دیگر در منطقه دید
ولی هیچکدام
مانند عراق با دوازده لشکر و 400 هواپیما وارد جنگ سراسری و برق اسا نمی شوند
به این سادگی ها نیست که یک جنگ را بخاطر اینکه خمینی گفته صدام ادم خوبی نیست با دوازده لشکر شروع کنی
صدام وقتی که دید از پس ایرانبر نمی اید به نزدیکترین متحد خود یعنی کویت حمله برد
کویتی که سی و شش ملیارد کمک های مالی در طول جنگ به عراق کرده بود
و از امیر کویت گرفته تا روزنامه نگاران و همه و همه صدام را رهبر عرب و بقول خودشان شمشیر عرب می دانستن که ازدروازهای شرقی پاسداری کرده
اگر کمک های کویت و سعودیه نبود صدام دوسه سال بیشتر نمی توانست طاقت بیاورد و حتما زیر بار هزینه های جنگ سقوط می کرد
صدام حتی از داماد خودش هم نگذشت
ودها هزار کرد را با بمب های شیمیائی به قتل رساند
همان زمان شاه هم اگر می توانست به ایران حمله می کرد
شما یا صدام را نمی شناسید یا خیلی ساده هستید
بله جانم
جمال عبدالناصر با محبوبیتی که در میان اعراب داشت توانست دو سه کشور عربی را متحد کند
چنانکه سوریه و مصر متحد شدن
ولی صدام از این محبوبیت در بین جماهیر عرب بر خوردار نبود
با تنش هایی که در زمان شاه بوجود اورد و جریان شط العرب می خواست پا جای پای عبدالناصر بگذارد
ولی شاه با فشاری که بوسیله کردهای استقلال طلب علیه صدام انجام داد باعث شد که پیمان الجزایر بین ایران و عراق بسته شود
همچنین صدام می دید که اگر بخواهد با ایران وارد جنگ شود نه تنها جهان انروز بلکه اعراب او را پشتیبانی نخواهند کرد
پادشاهان سعودی و برخی از سران عرب میانه خوبی با شاه ایران داشتند
وقتی که رژیم شاه کنار گذاشته شد صدام فرصت طلب دید بهترین وقت برای عبدالناصر بازیش فراهم شده
هم ارتش ایران تضعیف شده بود و هرج و مرج فراوانی در بین نیروهای مسلح وجود داشت
هم با این کار می خواست جای خالی شاه که به ژاندارم منطقه معروف بود را پر کند
در همان اویل از گروهای عرب جدایی طلب در خوزستان مانند خلق عرب پشتیبانی اشکارا می کرد
و موضوع جدایی خوزستان از ایران را پیش کشید
خود بنده شاهد بودم در ابادان این گروه با بمب گذاری های اویل انقلاب عده زیادی از مردم کوچه و بازار را کشتند
در اهواز و خرمشهر سوسنگرد و بقیه شهرستانها هم همینطور
مدتها قبل از جنگ انها یی که سن و سالی دارند می دانند هواپیماهای عراقی شب ها به اسمان مرزهای جنوبی ایران تجاوز می کردند
چند بار رژیم جوان و ناشی جمهوری اسلامی ایران به سازمان ملل شکایت کرد ولی کاری از پیش نبرد
تقصیر خمینی و رژیم نبود که صدام حمله کرد
همین الان هم اینگونه تشنجات را می توان در بین کشورهایی مانند سوریه و عراق
هندو پاکستان
سودان و مصر
و چند کشور دیگر در منطقه دید
ولی هیچکدام
مانند عراق با دوازده لشکر و 400 هواپیما وارد جنگ سراسری و برق اسا نمی شوند
به این سادگی ها نیست که یک جنگ را بخاطر اینکه خمینی گفته صدام ادم خوبی نیست با دوازده لشکر شروع کنی
صدام وقتی که دید از پس ایرانبر نمی اید به نزدیکترین متحد خود یعنی کویت حمله برد
کویتی که سی و شش ملیارد کمک های مالی در طول جنگ به عراق کرده بود
و از امیر کویت گرفته تا روزنامه نگاران و همه و همه صدام را رهبر عرب و بقول خودشان شمشیر عرب می دانستن که ازدروازهای شرقی پاسداری کرده
اگر کمک های کویت و سعودیه نبود صدام دوسه سال بیشتر نمی توانست طاقت بیاورد و حتما زیر بار هزینه های جنگ سقوط می کرد
صدام حتی از داماد خودش هم نگذشت
ودها هزار کرد را با بمب های شیمیائی به قتل رساند
همان زمان شاه هم اگر می توانست به ایران حمله می کرد
شما یا صدام را نمی شناسید یا خیلی ساده هستید
بله جانم
Timsar, the reason Iraq attacked Iran was due to OKs, blessing and intellingent help of the US! Mr. Rumsfelt flew to Bagdad and told Sadam to attack Iran and he will have the support of the west. Saddam did!
The reason Sadam Attacked Kuwait was for several reasons. The Amir of Kuwait bankrolled the Palestinans Yasser Arafat and the entifada $1Billion a year! That was a huge danger to the state of Israel! Therefore they had to put a stop to it when the US embassador April Glassbi told Sadam that he has the Blessing and the suport of the US government if he attacks Kuwait! That is why Israel did nothing when it was attack by Sadams missiles!
The reason Sadam Attacked Kuwait was for several reasons. The Amir of Kuwait bankrolled the Palestinans Yasser Arafat and the entifada $1Billion a year! That was a huge danger to the state of Israel! Therefore they had to put a stop to it when the US embassador April Glassbi told Sadam that he has the Blessing and the suport of the US government if he attacks Kuwait! That is why Israel did nothing when it was attack by Sadams missiles!
