Forum Request for everyone.

May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#41
No, I do not believe you.
You will not accept less than bloodbath when that day comes. There will be no reconciliation.
Now, wait a minute..... I say this not because I care if there will be a bloodbath or not, I actually fucking dont care at all, I say this 'cause we all know how the history of that nation goes in similar occasion and how it ends. Sadly its been always like this all the way up to today!
Firstly, this discussion is kind of academic since, probably, there won't be any sort of change of note in the Iranian Government system in our lifetime.

Secondly, if you really don't care i suppose it was a waste of time to even reply to you. I just wish you would say you start with the sentence 'i don't fucking care'. you have to admit it is kind of misleading to write about a topic and halfway through say i don't fucking care ...question comes to mind that if you don't fucking care why are you FUCKING writing ?

anyway, i guess we ll never know.
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#42
Baha'is of the world have paid to gradually buy the lands and build those buildings. As a matter of general practice, Baha'is do not accept donations from Non-Baha'is. Surely you know that Baha'is were forced there in exile into that area by the Islamic rulers of the time...

As for persecution, it is not God that causes persecution rather angry mobs who follow their mullahs blindly with prejudice, as they still do. The thing about prejudice is that it makes the person blind to reason that for instance long after they have stopped following the mullahs, they still seem to be influenced on a sub-conscious level by the same shibboleth and incantations that have been breathed into them by the same clerical cast.

For instance, mullahs for long have fed people about Baha'is being spies of this and that, and now they say the same things about the people that have risen to claim their freedom and dignity, yet some still believe it.

The other sad thing is that if some finally have discovered that mullahs are religious charlatans, then all religions must be bad, even those that for nearly two centuries mullahs have tried to keep a secret from the people. If Baha'is were so bad and their teachings were so bad, wouldn't it make sense to let them speak it so people can see it once and for all, for themselves?

Now, never mind what your mother believed and what happened to her, she made that choice for herself. You clearly are not a Baha'i and do not espouse its beliefs and teachings and use every opportunity to vent your anger at the world and whatever that crosses your path, what has that accomplished? Reflect on that.
don't play with words. are you taking leads from GP or what ?

i didn't say God causes it. i said why doesn't he stop it. like he parted the ocean for moses or he allowed jesus to come back from the dead. or how mohamad went to the sky riding a donkey.
all these 'PROVEN' and 'REGISTERED' miracles.

why doesn't he perform like miracles every day to save starving children, or help a woman right before she is assaulted ... does he have a cap on miracles, they are rationed ?

why does your god (which i guess is the same god as muslims, christians, jews etc) allow his creations (innocent creations) to suffer so much? does he have a mental problem ? psychotic episodes or what ?
 
Jul 5, 2009
3,012
360
South Dakota
#43
Firstly, this discussion is kind of academic since, probably, there won't be any sort of change of note in the Iranian Government system in our lifetime.
Secondly, if you really don't care i suppose it was a waste of time to even reply to you. I just wish you would say you start with the sentence 'i don't fucking care'. you have to admit it is kind of misleading to write about a topic and halfway through say i don't fucking care ...question comes to mind that if you don't fucking care why are you FUCKING writing ?
anyway, i guess we ll never know.
bruw, let's keep it "not personal", you always tend to make it personal, :) it reminds me of fella Chimanski and fella TeaMeli, they both are funny and missing!
I said "I fucking aint no care" if there goes another bloodbath or not 'cuse this is the ordinary life for some fellas down there, this has nothing to do with if I care what it writes here, you see, its sort of different issues.
It was the level of contradiction and lack of self-esteem in the texture of that thread that attracted me to write and ask the question, the rest as I said "I fucking aint no care" I do not!

By the way, you might be right at this one "i guess we ll never know"!
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#44
bruw, let's keep it "not personal", you always tend to make it personal, :) it reminds me of fella Chimanski and fella TeaMeli, they both are funny and missing!
I said "I fucking aint no care" if there goes another bloodbath or not 'cuse this is the ordinary life for some fellas down there, this has nothing to do with if I care what it writes here, you see, its sort of different issues.
It was the level of contradiction and lack of self-esteem in the texture of that thread that attracted me to write and ask the question, the rest as I said "I fucking aint no care" I do not!

By the way, you might be right at this one "i guess we ll never know"!
I am sorry if that came across as something 'personal'. I, 'personally', don't spend any time on a discussing a topic that a person (not you, any person) doesn't care about.

for example if i am at a bar with my buddies from work i would not talk football because they are hockey people. If i am at a Jewish gathering i would not talk about nazis since those guys would probably not want to go down that road.

I don't know how my comments got personal but again i am sorry if they came across that way.

as a footnote i feel that i need to make a short comment about your reference to china and TM, about china all i can say is that I learnt a lot from his posts and PMs and if his tone was offensive to some people (never to me even though we disagreed on multitude of things), you need to savvy yourself in every situation in life to 'take away' whatever you can that adds to your perspective of things (e.g. other people's point of view) ...

well maybe not in every situation, for example in a religious gathering the only takeaway i personally would have is HOW CAN HUMAN BEINGS BE SO MENTALLY IMPOTENT...which is not really a learning experience.

and last but not least TM seems to be to be a good guy. I like him. not strangers that anyone else in this forum.

I mean there are actually people in this forum that think IR is best thing on the table for iranian people. I cannot recall hearing anything more IDIOTIC that this in the last three decades.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#45
don't play with words. are you taking leads from GP or what ?

i didn't say God causes it. i said why doesn't he stop it. like he parted the ocean for moses or he allowed jesus to come back from the dead. or how mohamad went to the sky riding a donkey.
all these 'PROVEN' and 'REGISTERED' miracles.

why doesn't he perform like miracles every day to save starving children, or help a woman right before she is assaulted ... does he have a cap on miracles, they are rationed ?

why does your god (which i guess is the same god as muslims, christians, jews etc) allow his creations (innocent creations) to suffer so much? does he have a mental problem ? psychotic episodes or what ?
Ok I understand your point. Why an All-Loving, Kind God allow anyone to suffer? His true servants, the ones that actually recognized His latest Manifestation and followed His instructions, why would they be left to suffer cruelty and indignity? That is a good question which deserves some reflection. I agree it is difficult not to experience anger and frustration. And I don't pretend to know all the answers. I only offer my thoughts and reflections and hope that that they may be helpful. Ultimately every one has to decide for oneself what makes sense and try to understand one's creator and nurture their relationship.

Those stories of miracles are fantastic, but we have to really weigh them in accordance with reason and logic and the laws of existence. If there is a God and He created this world and others, He naturally put certain orders for them. I believe the fabric of this level of existence is free will and one must decide on one's own free will how to lead one's life.

The other aspect is that this is but the beginning of life, the only level that has a material and physical manifestation, other levels follow which are spiritual. The same way that we develop the necessary faculties for this life in the womb, we develop our spiritul qualities in this level for other spiritual worlds after this. During the nine months in the womb we develop our eyes so we can see in this world, we develop our ears so we can hear in this world, and so on. In the same fashoin we develop our spiritual qualities such as patience, kindliness, tolerance, generosity, thankfulness, love, etc. in this world so we can use them in the spiritual worlds. Just as the world of the womb is short in comparison to this world, this world too is but a fleeting moment compared to the spiritual worlds.

I know it is difficult to see it as such at the time, however it is through these struggles that we develop our spiritual qualities and grow. This is why God does not intervene at every moment to rescue the oppressed and save the innocent, because He would be doing it every moment and that defeats the purpose of this world, which is for us to develop our spiritual qualities out of our own free will and volition. It is for us to recognize the latest manifestation of God out of our own free will and then abide in His laws. It has to be in accordance to our own free will, not force, to have merit and allow spiritual growth.

Now, some cherish this free will to do what is good and seemly, to recognize the Manifestation of God, to follow His teachings, to serve their fello-beings, to be the cause of unity and amity among mankind; on the other hand others relinquish this free will to that of the clergy and become a member of an angry mob which does their biddings, chant angry slogans in the streets, burn homes of defensless people, attack women and children, lie and cheat for material possessions and worldly powers. Alas as is the nature of this world their powers and possessions do not endure and perish, as do the sufferings of the inoccent and their lives in this world will come to an end. However God is All-knowing and All-powerful. Do we think that He will forget the sufferings of His servants and the tyrrany of the opressor in this or the next worlds? I think not.

Interestingly enough, each new Manifestation of God elucidates these spiritual beliefs that with time people and especially the clergy turn into some superstition and dogma for their own gain. Spiritual truths such as heaven and hell, salvation, ressurection, end of days, etc. that had found material meaning by the clergy to secure their position in society were clarified by the Bab which brought the grip of the clergy and autocratic kings to an end and that was the real reason for their violent opposition to His movement and His followers that had swept the nation in a short period.

I hope this wasn't too long and worth the time to read it!
 
Last edited:
May 9, 2004
15,168
179
#46
doost nadaram.

be har haal merci az daav talab shodanet.

agar dalilesho ham mikhahi bedooni man mikham een soal ro az yek kasi bokonam ke taraf dare jomoorhi e eslami ye. shoma farmoodin zed e jomhoori e eslami hastin.

hala playboy:
please tell us when and where shit-e religion started. I am all ears.
ولی من اسلام رو قبول دارم
خیلی از مسلمونهای ایرانی ضد جمهوری اسلامی هستند
 
May 21, 2003
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Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#47
ولی من اسلام رو قبول دارم
خیلی از مسلمونهای ایرانی ضد جمهوری اسلامی هستند
shoma aghide hatoon ro systemtically hezaaran baar neveshtin.

oon play boy ro baram jaleb bood ke bebinam aghidash chiyeh...

hala migeh man doost nadaaram raje be elaahiaat harf bezanam. jomhoori e goozesh elaahi e vali doost nadareh raje be elaahiaat harf bezaneh.
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#48
Ok I understand your point. Why an All-Loving, Kind God allow anyone to suffer? His true servants, the ones that actually recognized His latest Manifestation and followed His instructions, why would they be left to suffer cruelty and indignity? That is a good question which deserves some reflection. I agree it is difficult not to experience anger and frustration. And I don't pretend to know all the answers. I only offer my thoughts and reflections and hope that that they may be helpful. Ultimately every one has to decide for oneself what makes sense and try to understand one's creator and nurture their relationship.
the third word in your second sentence, namely 'SERVANT' puts the conversation on the hold. why does your god (now i am being specific rather than before where i talked about everybody's god) need servants. is he a slaver ? or maybe yourself see a need in yourself to be a servant. if the answer is yes to either please explain.

to clarify:
Q1: if your god needs a servant. why?
Q2: lets assume your god doesn't need servants then why do you feel the urge in yourself to be a Servant ?

since i hate the iranian way of questioning something without a possible solution.

if your answer to Q2 is yes:

then

Q3: why would you rather be a 'servant' to your god (whose existence is drastically under question) than be a 'friend' to your conscience that exists in everyone no matter if they believe in god or not ?
 
May 9, 2004
15,168
179
#49
shoma aghide hatoon ro systemtically hezaaran baar neveshtin.

oon play boy ro baram jaleb bood ke bebinam aghidash chiyeh...

hala migeh man doost nadaaram raje be elaahiaat harf bezanam. jomhoori e goozesh elaahi e vali doost nadareh raje be elaahiaat harf bezaneh.
حالا شرط نیست پلی بوی مسلمون باشه
من دوستانی دارم که خدا و پیغمبر رو قبول ندارن اصلا اتئیست هستند ولی طرفدار رژیم هستند !!ا
شیعه های دو اتشه رو هم می شناسم که سایه جمهوری اسلامی و طرفدارنش رو با تیر میزنند!!ا
این دو گروه کاملا سیاسی به موضوع نگاه میکنند
اینطور فکر نکن که هرکسی طرفدار رژیمه حتما مسلمون و شیعه هست
 
May 21, 2003
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Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#50
حالا شرط نیست پلی بوی مسلمون باشه
من دوستانی دارم که خدا و پیغمبر رو قبول ندارن اصلا اتئیست هستند ولی طرفدار رژیم هستند !!ا
شیعه های دو اتشه رو هم می شناسم که سایه جمهوری اسلامی و طرفدارنش رو با تیر میزنند!!ا
این دو گروه کاملا سیاسی به موضوع نگاه میکنند
اینطور فکر نکن که هرکسی طرفدار رژیمه حتما مسلمون و شیعه هست
intori fekr nemikonam. man mikhaastam bedoonam oon chi fekr mikoneh. midoonam to chi fek mikoni, midoonam khodam ham chi fek mikonam.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#51
the third word in your second sentence, namely 'SERVANT' puts the conversation on the hold. why does your god (now i am being specific rather than before where i talked about everybody's god) need servants. is he a slaver ? or maybe yourself see a need in yourself to be a servant. if the answer is yes to either please explain.

to clarify:
Q1: if your god needs a servant. why?
Q2: lets assume your god doesn't need servants then why do you feel the urge in yourself to be a Servant ?

since i hate the iranian way of questioning something without a possible solution.

if your answer to Q2 is yes:

then

Q3: why would you rather be a 'servant' to your god (whose existence is drastically under question) than be a 'friend' to your conscience that exists in everyone no matter if they believe in god or not ?
It's really none of those things. It is a statement of the spiritual truth of our existence, the relationship between the Creator and His creatures. In it there is the limitations of the language too. For instance the word in Persian is "bandeh" as opposed to servant which could mean "mostakhdem" also. Speaking of which it is interesting how we humans have no problem to be servants of other fellow humans for money, but sometimes find it so difficult to humble ourselves before our creator out of love!

It also conveys a deep devotion, like when we say in Persian "nokaretem, mokhlesam, or chakeram" to another human being, we probably don't mean it in the literal way rather a sign of deep love and devotion for that person. It is a sign of humility and making oneself truly humble before one's creator out of deep love and devotion. And it has an element of service which we should all show not only to our Creator but also to our fellow beings.

The closet example we can see in this material world to our relatioship with our creator is that of children with their parents. Children too humble themselves before their parents out of love and deep devotion and seek to serve them and live within their good pleasure. And love is the ultimate force that attracts us to our friends, family and our creator.
 
May 21, 2003
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Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#52
bandeh means exactly the same as mostakhdem.

with a difference of the master in one case is invisible and in the other visible. The cause and effect are one and the same.

about nokaretam o mokhlesam etc are also remnants of destruction of culture by religion. They absolutely don't show devotion or love in any of the above cases. If you have deep love for your child and you see that they are walking down a wrong path. Would you advice him/her that she/he might be in for some heartache/hurt ...

if you have deep devotion towards your god when you see he/she/it is messing everything up as he has since he was invented, how can you express that to him ? where do you see him to tell him he is goofing everything up?

if a child humble himself or herself before their parent(s) he or she is AN IDIOT. (or raised to be an idiot or moron) i am sorry to use that tone but could not find a better world. Child / parent relationship is not about servitude and humbling. It is one of the best friendships that could exist between two human beings. Not servitude and bowing down (not literally i mean mentally).

this is actually a sign of hate and abuse not deep devotion that you mention. This is old men/women copying their god to water their dry egos by innocent children they brought into the world.

... and sadly everything you mentioned up in your post comes from religion. that is one WHY religion is the root of all evil. It hurts even harder at a personal level. I am sorry but you are mistaking submission for devotion. Two different things.
 
Jul 5, 2009
3,012
360
South Dakota
#53
as a footnote i feel that i need to make a short comment about your reference to china and TM, about china all i can say is that I learnt a lot from his posts and PMs and if his tone was offensive to some people (never to me even though we disagreed on multitude of things), you need to savvy yourself in every situation in life to 'take away' whatever you can that adds to your perspective of things (e.g. other people's point of view) ...
I think we are agreed regarding my question and your response, all good.... thanx for that!

As a small reaction to your footnote, TeaMeli is a hell of a nice fella (character), awesome and actually inspiring sometimes still very funny of course, god bless.

But Chimansky (character) I said funny, but I never figured out how he worked, every time I sneaked over here (the Forum) he was trying to get involve sexualy with the fella counterparty 'cause he was not agree with the same fella! :)
I think it is very cultural and said much about him and where he grew up, maybe it sounds masculine talking like that, but here in this part of the world (I dont think he said things like that in a bar face to face) it calls being "queer" whether you give it or get it when you're trying to become intimate with another fella guy.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#55
bandeh means exactly the same as mostakhdem.

with a difference of the master in one case is invisible and in the other visible. The cause and effect are one and the same.

about nokaretam o mokhlesam etc are also remnants of destruction of culture by religion. They absolutely don't show devotion or love in any of the above cases. If you have deep love for your child and you see that they are walking down a wrong path. Would you advice him/her that she/he might be in for some heartache/hurt ...

if you have deep devotion towards your god when you see he/she/it is messing everything up as he has since he was invented, how can you express that to him ? where do you see him to tell him he is goofing everything up?

if a child humble himself or herself before their parent(s) he or she is AN IDIOT. (or raised to be an idiot or moron) i am sorry to use that tone but could not find a better world. Child / parent relationship is not about servitude and humbling. It is one of the best friendships that could exist between two human beings. Not servitude and bowing down (not literally i mean mentally).

this is actually a sign of hate and abuse not deep devotion that you mention. This is old men/women copying their god to water their dry egos by innocent children they brought into the world.

... and sadly everything you mentioned up in your post comes from religion. that is one WHY religion is the root of all evil. It hurts even harder at a personal level. I am sorry but you are mistaking submission for devotion. Two different things.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am not trying to convince you what kind of relationship to have with God, or even that there is one. That is your journey and choice in life. You had made certain assumptions about Baha'is which I wished to clarify, particularly about some of their teachings that pertain to the current struggles in Iran. Some of them were listed in that video that I posted by a non-Baha'i through his research and how these teachings were new and revolutionary, such as equality of men and women, separating religion from government and secular governance, rule of law, elimination of all forms of prejudice and freedom and equality of all citizens, abolishment of professional clergy, etc. Let's focus on that and bring freedom and justice to Iran by peaceful means that are consistent with those values, free from anger and antagonism...If we can agree on that then this conversation has been fruitful, otherwise as you said another argument with no solutions. Be well.
 
Oct 18, 2010
6,271
849
#56
looks like the 'healing balm' propagandists were called into action by the high house.
save your breath since in the 21st century communication age the old tricks don't work.
'equality of men and women' is the saddest joke within the collection of all the jokes.
watch minute '36:00' in particular to see how sex is used to cover up the absurdity of
this joke.

[video=youtube;db7ZUPhphgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db7ZUPhphgc[/video]
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#57
Baha'is believe in all past dispensations including Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. one not more than the other, in the context of their time and that they all brought guidance relevant to its challenges. Baha'is also believe that all humans have received divine guidance in one shape or form including the aboriginals. At the same time, Baha'is believe that Islam and its teachings have been abrogated by the coming of the Báb and then Baha'u'llah. This is why it is an independent "religion" with its own teachings and principles. Baha'i teachings are the reason for the persecution of its followers in its birthplace more than anywhere else. Those who paint the Baha'i faith with the same brush as they do the clerical cast that has persecuted it for centuries, only do so to their own detriment, detriment of being deprived the truth. This is the tool of the mullahs: fallacies, suspicions, mistrust and prejudice to condition the people against investigating the truth for themselves.
I totally agree with you about the tools of mullahs (which I don't think is unique to them but used by other religions in power before.) With all due respect, you avoided to directly respond to my question. What's your position on Mohammad being a prophet and Quran being a holy book? It is illogical to say that religions must follow each other. Bab could have said he accepted Jesus but not Mohammad. What's the position with respect to Mohammad? A man of God? Let's please have an answer without qualifications and justifications.
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#58
I totally agree with you about the tools of mullahs (which I don't think is unique to them but used by other religions in power before.) With all due respect, you avoided to directly respond to my question. What's your position on Mohammad being a prophet and Quran being a holy book? It is illogical to say that religions must follow each other. Bab could have said he accepted Jesus but not Mohammad. What's the position with respect to Mohammad? A man of God? Let's please have an answer without qualifications and justifications.
do you actually expect a reply ?

the conversation goes on, question reply, question reply and at the end ...
at the top of once you reach the critical point, all people of faith, say well YOU NEED TO HAVE FAITH.

It is like leaving your entrance exam to a university blank and telling the professor, 'have faith that i studied' ...

it is logically and intellectually impotent.
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#59
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am not trying to convince you what kind of relationship to have with God, or even that there is one. That is your journey and choice in life. You had made certain assumptions about Baha'is which I wished to clarify, particularly about some of their teachings that pertain to the current struggles in Iran. Some of them were listed in that video that I posted by a non-Baha'i through his research and how these teachings were new and revolutionary, such as equality of men and women, separating religion from government and secular governance, rule of law, elimination of all forms of prejudice and freedom and equality of all citizens, abolishment of professional clergy, etc. Let's focus on that and bring freedom and justice to Iran by peaceful means that are consistent with those values, free from anger and antagonism...If we can agree on that then this conversation has been fruitful, otherwise as you said another argument with no solutions. Be well.
i know that you were not trying to convince. I never said or implied so.

I asked you a direct question, to which there was no answer.

I find this insulting and hurtful that you people of faith choose to opt out of conversations as you please. Why not be honest and say I DON'T KNOW.
I say i don't know at least 20 times a day. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. (that is if our egos can take the hit)

so again i ask have you ever asked your god why has he messed everything up ? Why has he created a man that kills, gets cancer, burns, is genetically not perfect ???

would you drive a car that has three wheels ? would you, at the grocery store, get a paper bag with no bottom ?
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#60
looks like the 'healing balm' propagandists were called into action by the high house.
save your breath since in the 21st century communication age the old tricks don't work.
'equality of men and women' is the saddest joke within the collection of all the jokes.
watch minute '36:00' in particular to see how sex is used to cover up the absurdity of
this joke.

[video=youtube;db7ZUPhphgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db7ZUPhphgc[/video]
where, when and how your religion got started? by which principles?

till you answer that i am afraid nothing you present here has any sort of authenticity. as i said you need to be honest with yourself before people can believe you are honest with them.