FORZA AZZURRI - Italia will win their 4th World Cup

Foo · Jul 8, 2006

Kaz said:

i agree that France had harder teams, but i disagree that Italy only impressed against Germany. They also played a good game against the Czechs and Ukraine.
Also, i disagree that they 'just didn't screw up to lose'. Against Ghana yes, they didnt start of too well in terms of play. Against the US it wasn't even a game anymore after the red cards. Against the Czechs they showed the most solid football i've seen this tournament; when u can keep a team with Nedved and Rosicky out of your box for the WHOLE game, u have to be solid. Against Australia they were never really threatened, even after getting the (unfair) red card. Australia had lots of possession but didn't create more than a few small chances. Against Ukraine they were only threatened in those few minutes when Ukraine gave everything to attack and had those 3 close chances.
In general, Italy is a very solid team, mainly due to the excellent mentality and great work as a team.

Kaz · Jul 8, 2006

Foo said:

Well that's the whole point, you just said what I said but came out with a different conclusion. Czech and Ukraine? Czech were unfortunate to go a man down and still attacked, they were a good opponent and I would have wagered if they had 11 they would have beaten Italy. Italy just countered well, they didn't dominate or do anything extraordinary. In the same light, Ukraine, was never a challenge. Against Australia, I've posted a crapload of info in regards to that match in IK, however you wish to see it, they were fortunate to have won it and you can't argue "because Australia didn't take advantage they played well". No, in that case both were poor. Against USA, both teams were fortuante that their keepers kept them in the game and they never played especially well. So what does that mean?

Ghana - You said it, not impressive.
USA - Fortunate nothing worse than a draw.
Czech - The Czech's desperation coupled with a red card killed them off for Italy.
Australia - Fortunate to have stole the game in the final minutes, nothing spectacular.
Ukraine - Weak team, good performance.
Germany - Very good performance, deserved win.

I'm not trying to hammer a point here, I just don't think both of these teams have come into it convincingly, but if ANYTHING France faced better opposition, who even at their worst, played better than Italy's opponents bar Germany.

Arian · Jul 8, 2006

So Italy has had it easy?

Beating the only African team that made it to the second round..
Beating #2 in the World..
Winning the Group of Death #2 (After group c)
Beating the only Asian/Oceana team that made it to the second round..
Beating the underdogs of this world cup...

WHILST..

France struggled against the Swiss..
Struggled against South Korea
and had a shakey game against Togo to come through..
Then granted, they beat spain fair and square.. and brazil as well.. portugal too

You cannot say Italia's path was A LOT easier.. you have to be fair..

I think they both had a path close to each other in terms of hard teams..

Kaz · Jul 8, 2006

Arian(PW) said:

To be fair, you're misleading yourself and others Arian jaan.

Beating the only African team that made it to the second round..

Apart from Ivory Coast, who were in the death group, who else did you expect to come up? Togo or Angola? This is a non-issue.

Beating #2 in the World..

Flawed Fifa ranking was exposed this WC. I mean, you could even tout Italy's result against USA (#5 in the World), but Italy didn't beat the 2nd 'best' team in the world.

Winning the Group of Death #2 (After group c)

You just said it, it WASN'T the group of death and as it panned out, wasn't as hard as it sounded. USA? Please. But even in winning it, it's misleading, it went till the final match and as aforementioned, Italy got a bit lucky (again).

Beating the only Asian/Oceana team that made it to the second round..

That's not even an achievement. Did you really expect them to lose? BTW, Italy got lucky to get passed that, makes Italy's performance all the more shakey.

Beating the underdogs of this world cup...

You must be clutching at straws because none of these points are actually worth a peanut.

WHILST....

France struggled against the Swiss..

Yeah, the only team not to concede a goal in WC history and get eliminated.

Struggled against South Korea

They did? I remember them dominating S.Korea and it should have been more. The score-line is what you're alluding to, I'm guessing.

Then granted, they beat spain fair and square.. and brazil as well.. portugal too

Yeah, they had the hardest route to the final. Compared to Italy's cakewalk, it's even more impressive.

You cannot say Italia's path was A LOT easier.. you have to be fair..

I think they both had a path close to each other in terms of hard teams..

To be fair, Italy made the final, well done. To be honest, their route was a lot easier. And NO, their paths aren't even comparable. Italy had it easier, easily.

Arian · Jul 8, 2006

See Kaz.. you are critisizing all the points with a closed eye..

France struggled against South Korea in terms of not scoring, just like how Italy struggled against USA. The difference was that Korea is #22, and USA is #5.

Talking about getting lucky, the penalty against PORTUGAL was the exact same situation when Italy was playing Australia.. but that was in round of 16 while the portugal game was in Semis.

The only 2 games I liked from the French was against Spain and Brazil.

On the other hand, I think beating Germany and Czech is at the same level of the French beating the two.

I'd say the paths pretty equal.

SoccerFre@k · Jul 8, 2006

Both teams are lucky to get into this final. France had to play many hard teams through knockout qf and semies to get where they are. Againts spain no dought they played extremely good. But italy and when they played Australia kmon that dive was a descrase to the game. I dont think italy sux but some games that they play and with all those dives its discrase full to the sport. There to really lucky teams but i hope France kicks those italians ass they certainly do not diserve to win this.

GO FRACE!!!!!!!!

Kaz · Jul 8, 2006

Arian(PW) said:

LOL mate, apart from me being an Australian supporter, I don't have as much invested in this final as you do.

Arian(PW) said:

Yes, Italy had problems scoring because as I mentioned, Keller was saving everything. France also had a myriad of opportunities to score but were unfortunate. The difference is that S.Korea didn't threaten the way USA threatened Italy. And really, S.Korea > USA. For the love of god stop with the Fifa rankings LOL.

Arian(PW) said:

Uh, the difference is that it WAS a penalty for France whereas Grosso/Italy's penalty was a DIVE. It was simulation and without it they would have had to go through 30 minutes under the pump.

Arian(PW) said:

I'm not really arguing whether we liked the games or not, that's subjective. But by the same token, Italy only really played one notable game - against Germany.

Arian(PW) said:

One of those matches was in the group stage and the other was the only notable example Italy has. Spain was touted as favourites along with Brazil (although playing under potential were still considered favourites) and another favourite in Portugal. I don't see how those are equal.

Arian(PW) said:

Maybe it's not as I'm making it out to be, but really, it's not equal. To each their own. :--zaboon:

Arian · Jul 8, 2006

I see Kaz.. I didn't know you live in Australia.. that's why you are so negative about Italia..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TGmaGPLFSU&search=italy australia

Look at the left arm.

I rest my case.

SoccerFre@k · Jul 8, 2006

Are u crasy did u watch that game he had the last australian beat he kicked the ball to the side and ran at the deffender. he could of went around the last one no problem but he probably wouldnt of scored. So to secure it he has to dive. he is one of the most stupidest tackler and bigggest diver

Abedzaadeh · Jul 8, 2006

Kaz jan,

I agree both teams have had flaws in this tournament and all your points (as always) are fair and valid. My point is Italy at their best (in semis) looked awesome and in my opinion it was one of the strongest performances I've seen from any team.

Whereas France never looked strong to me. Even when they outclassed Brazil, it looked more a case of Brazil turning up for a picnic.

Nobody can make a case against France or Italy at this point but IMO (very subjective) if Italy win it a lot of neutrals will consider them as the best team in the world (if not top 3), but if France do, they will most likely be regarded as the weakest team to have ever won a world cup and certainly not feared by anyone.

SoccerFre@k · Jul 8, 2006

Abedzaadeh said:

I Agree with everything u have said but even tho france looks like a weak team to make it through all those teams that have heart everyone of their players so i say once again

GO FRANCE!!!!

Kaz · Jul 8, 2006

Arian(PW) said:

LMAO, please dude. Where's the left arm? Arian jaan, all over the world they're saying that wasn't a penalty. Even Culina - Italian ref - said it wasn't a penalty. My uncle, chairman of all referees in Iran and a former referee himself said it wasn't a penalty.

Abedzaadeh said:

Well Abedzaadeh jaan that is the point I addressed earlier. I disagree as well. How can you consider a team that beat 3 of the top 5 favourites in a world cup 'one of the weakest sides to ever win a World cup'. The Italy V Germany game is fresh in the mind and that is an illusion, in my opinion. To me Italy haven't been domineering and have looked mediocre for most of the WC.

I guess all bets will be settled in the final.

westwienmaskulin · Jul 8, 2006

So far Italy has been the most impressive team. ukraine, Ghana or Manana...doesn't matter! They imposed their game on every team they played and never looked like losers, while you can't say that about France.

However, if these assholes are serious about not sending to Serie C, I'm all the way for France.

Kaz · Jul 8, 2006

westwienmaskulin said:

LOL, If Italy were made to look like losers against Australia and USA but not Ukraine and Ghana, it doesn't make it all that much better. Of course France is going to seem less dominant, they had to face the favourites in all the knockout matches. If France wins that means they beat Spain, Brazil, Portugal, and Italy for the title. Compare that to Australia, Ukraine, Germany and, if they win, France. Even though I disagree with you about them even 'not looking like they were going to lose'(which sounds silly to me because they actually got outclassed a few times by weaker opponents) it's like saying Al Ittihad's Asian championship was more convincing than Liverpool's champions league win while forgetting to mention that Liverpool actually has to face better teams.

AliMR · Jul 8, 2006

FAUK ITALY.
go FRANCE.

AliMR · Jul 8, 2006

LUCKY ITALIANS...they played against ONE quality side in the knockout stage, while France faced the best in all 3 matches.

halftime · Jul 8, 2006

Italy this world cup have grown throughout the tournment and now play an exciting possession and counter attacking game. When they don't have the ball, they defend well and prepare to hit the opposing team with pace and skill on the break. When they have the ball, they play a technical and exspansive passing game, probing for space and using the wing/full backs.

This style of play, balancing rock solid and brave defending with lightening counters, plus an excellent passing game is a delighte to watch.

How on earth can people want France to win, just so teams can emulate their style of play over the Italians?

Italy 2006 or France 2006.....I know which one has played the better football, and which one I'd want Iran to aspire to.

Go Iran

westwienmaskulin · Jul 9, 2006

Kaz said:

Bro...in the Australia game, despite being down to 10, you never really thought that Italy's going to lose. They are just too stable and too much tactically aware and functioning. Their positioning and everything and tactical rigorosity is unmatched. They NEVER looked like losers or like that they going to lose the game. Not against US, certainly not against Australia and they handled everyone else too.
France had two tough games against a Brazil not in motion and a Spain that was blown up by a moron of a coach. Otherwise no team was more a test than Italy's.

Just compare the teams:
France - Switzerland vs. Italy vs. Ghana -> more or less equal
France - Korea vs. Italy vs. USA -> almost equal
France - Togo vs. Italy vs. Czechs -> Italy tougher opponent
France - Spain vs. Italy vs. Australia -> France
France - Brazil vs. Italy vs. Ukraine -> France
France vs. Portugal vs. Italy vs. Germany -> Italy had tougher opponent.

So in regards to their opponents, it's basically equal.

Sith · Jul 9, 2006

Italia? LOL!

View attachment 6620

Abedzaadeh · Jul 9, 2006

Kaz jan,

By saying that this France would be the weakest team to have won a world cup I meant comparing this France 06 team to: Brazil 2002, France 1998, Brazil 1994, Germany 1990, Argentina 1986 etc.....

I know on paper their path was convincing this year but my arguement is that it was only on paper and not in practice. Most teams wouldve beaten the Brazil that played France - more convincingly than 1-0 too.

Anyway, lets put this debate aside, which team do you think is stronger? If Iran had to play one of them in a world cup knock out stage which one would you choose?

FORZA AZZURRI - Italia will win their 4th World Cup

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