Greece's Syriza on cusp of winning outright majority: exit poll

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#1
Can someone explain to me how Syriza can achieve tax cuts and increase in social spending and ... while the country is in debt !!!

ATHENS (Reuters) - Greece's anti-austerity leftist party Syriza stood on the cusp of an outright victory in Sunday's snap election, commanding a 10 point lead over Prime Minister Antonis Samaras' conservatives, an updated exit poll showed.
Syriza was on track to take 36 and 38 percent of the national vote, well ahead of Samaras' center-right New Democracy party which was seen taking 26 to 28 percent, according to the updated poll by Metron Analysis, GPO, Alco, MRB, Marc.
The updated poll showed Syriza securing between 148 to 154 seats in the 300-seat parliament. An absolute majority for Syriza will depend in large part on whether former Prime Minister George Papandreou's new center-left party manages to cross the 3 percent threshold to enter parliament.
The updated poll indicated that seven or eight parties will make it into parliament, with Papandreou's party securing between 2.2 and 3.2 percent of the vote.
The prospect of a Syriza victory has worried financial markets who fear the party's plan to demand a debt writeoff and end austerity measures will trigger a new financial crisis and put Greece on the path to a euro exit.
Centrists To Potami and far-right Golden Dawn were tied for third spot with 6 to 7 percent of the vote, according to the exit poll.
 
Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#2
Can someone explain to me how Syriza can achieve tax cuts and increase in social spending and ... while the country is in debt !!!
By defaulting and leaving EU (which they don't claim they want to). There is no other way. Of course heavy sanctions and bullying are to follow.

I understand Greece and its people like to live beyond their means, but from a nationalistic point of view I totally understand why they would want to give the middle finger to Merkel and her austerity dictation.

I hope Greece bounces and paves the way for more countries to leave this EU monopoly. It will take many years, but it would be a great success story. It's wishful thinking though.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#3
By defaulting and leaving EU (which they don't claim they want to). There is no other way. Of course heavy sanctions and bullying are to follow.

I understand Greece and its people like to live beyond their means, but from a nationalistic point of view I totally understand why they would want to give the middle finger to Merkel and her austerity dictation.

I hope Greece bounces and paves the way for more countries to leave this EU monopoly. It will take many years, but it would be a great success story. It's wishful thinking though.
Wouldn't the heavy sanctions damage their economy and bring the value of their currency even lower !!!

How is their government, despite having mountain of debt , going to be able to increase the public spending and bring the social justice that they are talking about.
Lets even say that they default on the loans and leave EU, how are they now going to pay for the extra spending ?

I am very confused on this :)
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#4
it is really hard to tell whether leaving the EU Currency will help or hurt Greece in the long term.

from one point of view the Greek can easily leave the Euro currency and then devalue the hell out of drachma
and lour in the tourists.

on the other hand commerce with EU will become more expensive because of different currency.

and it is likely that their government bonds will have to pay much higher yields.

in politics you don't really need to listen too much to rhetoric. politicians say one thing to appease the common man in the street.

and say another to the elite and then take actions which is somewhere in the middle.

this is true everywhere in Iran, Germany, ...

I would surprised if in the end Greece Leaves the Euro zone monetary union.. it is a huge Gamble.
 

Behrooz_C

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2005
16,651
1,566
A small island west of Africa
#5
Socialism in practice: cook the books to join the Euro, sponge off other countries to live, then refuse to pick up the tab and let others pay your debts. Parasites.

Yes, nobody likes austerity. I don't like it in my personal life. I'd love to spend spend spend until I get bored. But I have to regulate my expenditure in accordance to my income. Now, where is Tsipras going to get the money if he rejects austerity? Leave Eurozone? Fine. But with all that debt, who is going to lend Greece any money for essential imports like medicines and food?

Bottomline is, Tsipras is a typical demagogue politician and Greeks are fools for thinking he can help them out of austerity, or that he is any less corrupt than the previous governments.
 
Jul 5, 2009
3,012
360
South Dakota
#6
Greece is the most fucked up european country, prepare yourself to compare these muppets with IRI thugs!
So, these so called new-commies cant do a tard!

The Greek shipping industry, the world’s largest (25% of the worlds shipping industry) has always attempted to avoid paying taxes and has warned it will move outside of its own country if it is forced to pay. The industry enjoys a largely tax-free status and is controlled by many of the oligarchs that critics say really control Greece.

Until a couple of years ago you could see unfinished box-shaped concrete homes. The second floors usually didn't even had walls, you could see just columns and they were used for hanging laundry on lines between them, why?
They didn't have to pay property taxes until the construction was finished, so no one ever finished building.
 
Jan 2, 2015
1,308
0
Milanello
#7
You feel like you cant understand whats really going on in greece? You are right. Its intentional, just like it was intentional to make people not understand the reason behind why Argentina had to loan money from IMF. Ask former chief economist of the world bank Joseph Stiglitz he will tell you whats behind all these states that all of a sudden are declared bankrupt. In reallity greece was not more or less bancrupt than cyprus, portugal, south italy or even spain. Thing is once the lobby that runs the world bank and IMF chose you to be the chosen one, you are fucked. In all these cases, they intentionally get states into heavy debt to make them get hopelessly dependent, there is a lot of intimidation involved, a lot of dictating, a lot of humiliating and guess what, in a lot of cases, those countries dont want more credit and they get forced to take it. They need greece for political reasons. they did the same to a lot of other countries because they needed their resources and their dependence on IMF and the loads of rules they force on you once they give you the first million. All these countries also become political vasals of those who give them credit and we all know who runs IMF and World Bank. Its such countries who all of a sudden raise their hands in UN councils to agree with wars because they have to, this is part of the way how they pay back their credits. Stiglitz is a heavy weight and he got fired by the world bank because he talked about the reality as for how countries get exploited and made dependent (politically and economically) on the western lobbies and governments. I suspect they need Greece to become a new total vasal near the essential dardanelles right next to ukraine and near russia.



The Observer, London, 10 October 2001

The Globalizer Who Came In From The Cold
(Joe Stiglitz: Today's winner of the nobel prize in economics)


The World Bank's former Chief Economist's accusations are eye-popping - including how the IMF and US Treasury fixed the Russian elections

"It has condemned people to death," the former apparatchik told me. This was like a scene out of Le Carre. The brilliant old agent comes in from the cold, crosses to our side, and in hours of debriefing, empties his memory of horrors committed in the name of a political ideology he now realizes has gone rotten.

And here before me was a far bigger catch than some used Cold War spy. Joseph Stiglitz was Chief Economist of the World Bank. To a great extent, the new world economic order was his theory come to life.

I "debriefed" Stigltiz over several days, at Cambridge University, in a London hotel and finally in Washington in April 2001 during the big confab of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. But instead of chairing the meetings of ministers and central bankers, Stiglitz was kept exiled safely behind the blue police cordons, the same as the nuns carrying a large wooden cross, the Bolivian union leaders, the parents of AIDS victims and the other 'anti-globalization' protesters. The ultimate insider was now on the outside.

In 1999 the World Bank fired Stiglitz. He was not allowed quiet retirement; US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, I'm told, demanded a public excommunication for Stiglitz' having expressed his first mild dissent from globalization World Bank style.

Here in Washington we completed the last of several hours of exclusive interviews for The Observer and BBC TV's Newsnight about the real, often hidden, workings of the IMF, World Bank, and the bank's 51% owner, the US Treasury. And here, from sources unnamable (not Stiglitz), we obtained a cache of documents marked, "confidential," "restricted," and "not otherwise (to be) disclosed without World Bank authorization."

Stiglitz helped translate one from bureaucratise, a "Country Assistance Strategy." There's an Assistance Strategy for every poorer nation, designed, says the World Bank, after careful in-country investigation. But according to insider Stiglitz, the Bank's staff 'investigation' consists of close inspection of a nation's 5-star hotels. It concludes with the Bank staff meeting some begging, busted finance minister who is handed a 'restructuring agreement' pre-drafted for his 'voluntary' signature (I have a selection of these).

Each nation's economy is individually analyzed, then, says Stiglitz, the Bank hands every minister the same exact four-step program.

Step One is Privatization - which Stiglitz said could more accurately be called, 'Briberization.' Rather than object to the sell-offs of state industries, he said national leaders - using the World Bank's demands to silence local critics - happily flogged their electricity and water companies. "You could see their eyes widen" at the prospect of 10% commissions paid to Swiss bank accounts for simply shaving a few billion off the sale price of national assets.

And the US government knew it, charges Stiglitz, at least in the case of the biggest 'briberization' of all, the 1995 Russian sell-off. "The US Treasury view was this was great as we wanted Yeltsin re-elected. We don't care if it's a corrupt election. We want the money to go to Yeltzin" via kick-backs for his campaign.

Stiglitz is no conspiracy nutter ranting about Black Helicopters. The man was inside the game, a member of Bill Clinton's cabinet as Chairman of the President's council of economic advisors.

Most ill-making for Stiglitz is that the US-backed oligarchs stripped Russia's industrial assets, with the effect that the corruption scheme cut national output nearly in half causing depression and starvation.

After briberization, Step Two of the IMF/World Bank one-size-fits-all rescue-your-economy plan is 'Capital Market Liberalization.' In theory, capital market deregulation allows investment capital to flow in and out. Unfortunately, as in Indonesia and Brazil, the money simply flowed out and out. Stiglitz calls this the "Hot Money" cycle. Cash comes in for speculation in real estate and currency, then flees at the first whiff of trouble. A nation's reserves can drain in days, hours. And when that happens, to seduce speculators into returning a nation's own capital funds, the IMF demands these nations raise interest rates to 30%, 50% and 80%.

"The result was predictable," said Stiglitz of the Hot Money tidal waves in Asia and Latin America. Higher interest rates demolished property values, savaged industrial production and drained national treasuries.

At this point, the IMF drags the gasping nation to Step Three: Market-Based Pricing, a fancy term for raising prices on food, water and cooking gas. This leads, predictably, to Step-Three-and-a-Half: what Stiglitz calls, 'The IMF riot.'

The IMF riot is painfully predictable. When a nation is, "down and out, [the IMF] takes advantage and squeezes the last pound of blood out of them. They turn up the heat until, finally, the whole cauldron blows up," as when the IMF eliminated food and fuel subsidies for the poor in Indonesia in 1998. Indonesia exploded into riots, but there are other examples - the Bolivian riots over water prices last year and this February, the riots in Ecuador over the rise in cooking gas prices imposed by the World Bank. You'd almost get the impression that the riot is written into the plan.

And it is. What Stiglitz did not know is that, while in the States, BBC and The Observer obtained several documents from inside the World Bank, stamped over with those pesky warnings, "confidential," "restricted," "not to be disclosed." Let's get back to one: the "Interim Country Assistance Strategy" for Ecuador, in it the Bank several times states - with cold accuracy - that they expected their plans to spark, "social unrest," to use their bureaucratic term for a nation in flames.

That's not surprising. The secret report notes that the plan to make the US dollar Ecuador's currency has pushed 51% of the population below the poverty line. The World Bank "Assistance" plan simply calls for facing down civil strife and suffering with, "political resolve" - and still higher prices.

The IMF riots (and by riots I mean peaceful demonstrations dispersed by bullets, tanks and teargas) cause new panicked flights of capital and government bankruptcies. This economic arson has it's bright side - for foreign corporations, who can then pick off remaining assets, such as the odd mining concession or port, at fire sale prices.

Stiglitz notes that the IMF and World Bank are not heartless adherents to market economics. At the same time the IMF stopped Indonesia 'subsidizing' food purchases, "when the banks need a bail-out, intervention (in the market) is welcome." The IMF scrounged up tens of billions of dollars to save Indonesia's financiers and, by extension, the US and European banks from which they had borrowed.

A pattern emerges. There are lots of losers in this system but one clear winner: the Western banks and US Treasury, making the big bucks off this crazy new international capital churn. Stiglitz told me about his unhappy meeting, early in his World Bank tenure, with Ethopia's new president in the nation's first democratic election. The World Bank and IMF had ordered Ethiopia to divert aid money to its reserve account at the US Treasury, which pays a pitiful 4% return, while the nation borrowed US dollars at 12% to feed its population. The new president begged Stiglitz to let him use the aid money to rebuild the nation. But no, the loot went straight off to the US Treasury's vault in Washington.

Now we arrive at Step Four of what the IMF and World Bank call their "poverty reduction strategy": Free Trade. This is free trade by the rules of the World Trade Organization and World Bank, Stiglitz the insider likens free trade WTO-style to the Opium Wars. "That too was about opening markets," he said. As in the 19th century, Europeans and Americans today are kicking down the barriers to sales in Asia, Latin American and Africa, while barricading our own markets against Third World agriculture.

In the Opium Wars, the West used military blockades to force open markets for their unbalanced trade. Today, the World Bank can order a financial blockade just as effective - and sometimes just as deadly.

Stiglitz is particularly emotional over the WTO's intellectual property rights treaty (it goes by the acronym TRIPS, more on that in the next chapters). It is here, says the economist, that the new global order has "condemned people to death" by imposing impossible tariffs and tributes to pay to pharmaceutical companies for branded medicines. "They don't care," said the professor of the corporations and bank loans he worked with, "if people live or die."

By the way, don't be confused by the mix in this discussion of the IMF, World Bank and WTO. They are interchangeable masks of a single governance system. They have locked themselves together by what are unpleasantly called, "triggers." Taking a World Bank loan for a school 'triggers' a requirement to accept every 'conditionality' - they average 111 per nation - laid down by both the World Bank and IMF. In fact, said Stiglitz the IMF requires nations to accept trade policies more punitive than the official WTO rules.

Stiglitz greatest concern is that World Bank plans, devised in secrecy and driven by an absolutist ideology, are never open for discourse or dissent. Despite the West's push for elections throughout the developing world, the so-called Poverty Reduction Programs "undermine democracy."

And they don't work. Black Africa's productivity under the guiding hand of IMF structural "assistance" has gone to hell in a handbag. Did any nation avoid this fate? Yes, said Stiglitz, identifying Botswana. Their trick? "They told the IMF to go packing."

So then I turned on Stiglitz. OK, Mr Smart-Guy Professor, how would you help developing nations? Stiglitz proposed radical land reform, an attack at the heart of "landlordism," on the usurious rents charged by the propertied oligarchies worldwide, typically 50% of a tenant's crops. So I had to ask the professor: as you were top economist at the World Bank, why didn't the Bank follow your advice?

"If you challenge [land ownership], that would be a change in the power of the elites. That's not high on their agenda." Apparently not.

Ultimately, what drove him to put his job on the line was the failure of the banks and US Treasury to change course when confronted with the crises - failures and suffering perpetrated by their four-step monetarist mambo. Every time their free market solutions failed, the IMF simply demanded more free market policies.

"It's a little like the Middle Ages," the insider told me, "When the patient died they would say, 'well, he stopped the bloodletting too soon, he still had a little blood in him.'"

I took away from my talks with the professor that the solution to world poverty and crisis is simple: remove the bloodsuckers.

*A version of this was first published as "The IMF's Four Steps to Damnation" in The Observer (London) in April and another version in The Big Issue - that's the magazine that the homeless flog on platforms in the London Underground. Big Issue offered equal space to the IMF, whose "deputy chief media officer" wrote: "... I find it impossible to respond given the depth and breadth of hearsay and misinformation in [Palast's] report."

Of course it was difficult for the Deputy Chief to respond. The information (and documents) came from the unhappy lot inside his agency and the World Bank.
 
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Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
12,269
352
#9
IMF’s Director Batista: Greek bailout was “to save German & French banks” (video)

This was never said officially before! “They gave money to save German and French banks, not Greece,” Paolo Batista, one of the Executive Directors of International Monetary Fund told Greek private Alpha TV on Tuesday. Batista strongly criticized not only the euro zone and the European Central Bank but also the IMF and the Fund’s managing Director Christine Lagarde for defending Europe much too much..

He urged Greece to directly negotiate with the IMF and favored the restructuring of the Greek debt that is been hold by the European partners.

[video=youtube;mIgPcFSe7RE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIgPcFSe7RE[/video]