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oghabealborz

Elite Member
Feb 18, 2005
15,124
2,604
Strawberry field
We all want sovereignty, but the question is how you would ensure it in a country as diverse as Iran.







How would the Kurds feel sovereign in a country where their kids are not allowed to learn their mother's language at school? You can't just ignore decades of discrimination in the name of sovereignty. The way to ensure sovereignty is to make sure all minorities feel secure, wanted, and equal. Otherwise you have to hold the country together by force, which is effectively what the last two regimes have done. And given the historical context, a promise for better times won't suffice, we all need to work for it.







These people felt Iranian enough to take part in a demonstration about Iran, whether they brought Kurdish flags or not. That is something to build on, not to further alienate them by calling them traitors. If we truly consider them Iranian, we should care about their legitimate grievances.[/

QUOTE]
This country as diverse as you mentioned has existed for thousands of years, its human rights charter written on stone by order kourosh the great .
We inherited this country and over centuries people sacrificed and died to protect it , won and lost many battled and wars but never beaten. Even if it too 300 years rised again .
There's absolutely no compromise on its sovereignty and no one has any right to give it away , we inherited and we will pass it on to next generation.
 
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khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,458
88
Atlanta
This country as diverse as you mentioned has existed for thousands of years, its human rights charter written on stone by order kourosh the great .
We inherited this country and over centuries people sacrificed and died to protect it , won and lost many battled and wars but never beaten. Even if it too 300 years rised again .
There's absolutely no compromise on its sovereignty and no one has any right to give it away , we inherited and we will pass it on to next generation.
Sorry but you are missing the point here. I'm not arguing whether we should keep Iran in one piece or not, but how to do that.

The reality is that our ethnic minorities have been mistreated for ever. The reality is that many of them think they need independence from the central government to have the respect and cultural identity they deserve. Those are the realities. How are you going to deal with those realities? That is the question.

What we have done so far is to deny them agency, try to dilute their culture at every chance, and force them into submission. Anyone could see that that is not a sustainable path over the long run, and would result in a fractured country. If we really care about sovereignty and want to preserve it we have to acknowledge the mistakes and start the healing process.
 
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Zob Ahan

Elite Member
Feb 4, 2005
17,481
2,233
:D:D That's rich, super rich!! Sorry I got distracted by the masses of LA monarchists rushing back to Iran to fight in the streets :D:D



So when it was "Vekalat" time, unity was everything, and we should've put our differences aside and join the cause to get rid of IR. Now unity is meaningless ...

The reality is that monarchists have not been able to work with anyone. Republicans, federalists, nationalists, leftists, reformists, they are all traitors. If you are a monarchist, we'll work with you, if not then you are a separatist and traitor. Really good strategy!!

And finally, you are misreading RP's name recognition as support. Name recognition is valuable and can lead to support, but RP is wasting it. The support he has is so far not one he has earned, it's thanks to IR and the nostalgia people feel for the good old times. If he and his supporters continue to be divisive, even that name recognition will evaporate.
Masi has just about the same name recognition as RP. The only difference is she is hated by most people and RP is liked. I hear this all the time about why RP doesn't "work with" others. He has numerous times and every time it is proven that these people are still more anti Pahlavi than anti IR. We just saw how HE jumped in the arms of people like Fatapour of Fadaian and the daughter of a Mullah and an Ibrahim Yazdi protégé like Reza Alijani just like he preferred to hug a NIAC leader over greeting RP. This "coalition" wanted to keep it as it was, five people with 1% following in Iran and one person that the majority of people see as the only viable option.
 
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oghabealborz

Elite Member
Feb 18, 2005
15,124
2,604
Strawberry field
Sorry but you are missing the point here. I'm not arguing whether we should keep Iran in one piece or not, but how to do that.



The reality is that our ethnic minorities have been mistreated for ever. The reality is that many of them think they need independence from the central government to have the respect and cultural identity they deserve. Those are the realities. How are you going to deal with those realities? That is the question.



What we have done so far is to deny them agency, try to dilute their culture at every chance, and force them into submission. Anyone could see that that is not a sustainable path over the long run, and would result in a fractured country. If we really care about sovereignty and want to preserve it we have to acknowledge the mistakes and start the healing process.

I don't buy that argument, if there's lack of freedom or democracy it's for everyone, look even in Turkey kurdish people are not allowed to dress in their costume in public.

I have no prejudice against any ethnic group in Iran and I am one of millions of like minded people, it is Important to distinguish foreign forces who try to manipulate with ill fated negative propaganda within their powerful media .
Our culture, heritage and religion is too powerful, there are many ethnic integration through marriage and family ties, this is how we have survived for all these years.
We as citizens of this great country and identity are leaseholders of this country through our lifetime, not freeholders .
 

footy

Elite Member
Aug 28, 2019
4,142
841
Marina Dool Rey
Separate Iran into units and people in south benefit from oil and kavir and other people lick their desert or their village pavements.

If a group of six seven from various parts are chosen and lead and govern Iran as a whole country like it is now would be a good alternative.

Think Swiss or Belgium has that.
 
Nov 15, 2022
130
98
Like what @rahim said, why do you need to stretch the truth?
LMAO.

The ones stretching the truth are those who pretend there is something even remotely normal about a handful of Iran flags among a sea of Kurdish flags in a protest pertaining to Iran!

Like I said before, stop this coy and cute nonsense. If you guys are ok with tribalism and separatism, come out and say so. If this tribalist division being forced on the revolution from abroad by fund hustlers is fine with you, then defend it. Just don't deny what we can all see with our own eyes.

For decades, both IR and Pahlavis went full force at cultural genocide when it came to those minorities
Complete and utter bs, and reason 100000 why the Iranian left is utter scum. This newfound obsession with tribalism is exclusive to expat leftards and has no relevance to what Iranians are risking their lives for INSIDE Iran. It's just the latest chapter of the pitiful chapfarsi trying to parrot whatever the Western left has pulled out its ass this year. Wokeism and race war has now replaced class warfare for the Western left, so right on cue the chapfarsi lunatics have followed suit.

The insane part is that back in 1979 when dollar was 7 toman and laborers could afford houses, Iranian leftists helped burn the country down in the name of "kaargaraan va zahmatkeshan"! Now that 60% of the nation lives under the line of poverty and laborers have to sell their kidneys to survive, the eyerainian left has abandoned all their slogans about class and poverty and are hell bent on imposing a tribalist division on a united Iran from the comfort of their homes in Europe and North America!

If dividing Iran is so important for treacherous lefties, they need to put their money where their mouth is and go back and risk their lives for their loony toon ideals the same way Iranians inside the country have done.

That jakesh Esmaeilioon wasn't even an opponent of the regime until his family was lost. When the regime slaughtered 1500 people in 2019 he was too busy babbling about Gaza! I have nothing to say to people whose idea of national hero is someone like this scum.

The protestors in Iran including Mahsa's own family have repeatedly shut down this tribalist crap being forced from outside by a few losers, but the parasites are too shameless and greedy for that sweet fund cash to give it up.

(1) روزنامه اینترنتی فراز on Twitter: "دایی #مهسا_امینی در گفت و گو با فراز: «هر کسی می‌خواهد این موضوع را قومیتی کند، صددرصد اشتباه می‌کند. به هیچ‌وجه معتقد نیستیم که چون کرد هستیم از مردم ایران جداییم. همه‌ی ایران خانواده‌ی ماست. ما در یک خاک زندگی می‌کنیم و خاک‌مان برای ما مقدس است». https://t.co/V09Jst4bdB" / Twitter


(1) simon wiesenthal on Twitter: "خوب نگاه کنید خوب گوش بدید بعدا نگویید انقلاب ما را دزدیدند یا بخواهید این خونها را مصادره به مطلوب فانتزی هاتون بکنید: پدر، فرزند در خاک شدهٔ خودش پارهٔ تنش حاصل عمر و امیدش را به ایران هدیه میکند؛ به ایران! به کردستان و تهران و بلوچستان و خوزستان و مازندان و آذربایجان؛ ایران!" / Twitter


This one from Mahsa's mother:


1682881261617.jpg
 
Nov 15, 2022
130
98
:D:D That's rich, super rich!! Sorry I got distracted by the masses of LA monarchists rushing back to Iran to fight in the streets :D:D
The point, genius, is that what monarchists abroad want is a thousand times more in line with what people inside Iran want. What YOU want, only makes sense to a few brainwashed lefties living abroad who have no plans to ever go back to Iran.

Awat 𓃬☼ on Twitter: "طنین انداز شدن شعار میهن ستیز کش " رضاشاه روحت شاد " در شب تاجگذاری رضاشاه در استادیوم آریامهر . #رضا_شاه_روحت_شاد https://t.co/FuMAB0ujeX" / Twitter



KayhanLondon کیهان لندن on Twitter: "شعار #رضاشاه_روحت_شاد پس از مسابقه ملوان و تراکتورسازی بندر انزلی شنبه ۲۶ فروردین ۱۴۰۲ تماشاگران بازی تیم‌های ملوان بندرانزلی (پهلوی) و تراکتورسازی تبریز پس از پایان مسابقه هنگام خروج از استادیوم «سیروس قایقران»، #علی_کریمی کاپیتان سابق تیم ملّی فوتبال را تشویق کردند و شعار… https://t.co/TTWHf1AXRK" / Twitter


The reality is that monarchists have not been able to work with anyone.
First of all, Monarchists are the only ones calling for a free referendum, while leftists reject the idea of monarchists even taking part in it, with some even promising to reject the referendum if monarchy is an option! No one who knows how the left operates will believe for a second that they're interested in working with anyone they perceive as rightwing or nationalist. Give it up already.

Second of all, for sides to unite and work together, each must bring a sizable following to the table, and they must also share some basic values and principles. The tribalist left has A) no following in Iran, and B) no belief in national unity and territorial integrity which people in the country are united in their adherence to. Maryarm Rajavi has also spent decades fighting IR. Find one sane Iranian who wants to "unite" and work with her!

If he and his supporters continue to be divisive, even that name recognition will evaporate.
"Divisive" are the traitors who insist on forcing tribalism and separatism down the nation's throat from abroad! Do you guys honestly have this little self-awareness?...
 
Likes: footy
Nov 15, 2022
130
98
One general note: Anytime you see Iranian lefties talk about "working together", that's a dead giveaway right there that they know they're hopelessly outnumbered! It's only when they know they have no chance at all of monopolizing power or even taking a small share of it that they suddenly remember the importance of teamwork.

If the Alinezhad/Esmal gang and their followers had even a third of Pahlavi's following they would laugh at the idea of working with anybody!

Keep in mind all this concern trolling about "unity and teamwork" is coming right after we found out they had rejected every name suggested by Pahlavi! Teamwork apparently works only one way!
 

khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,458
88
Atlanta
LMAO.

The ones stretching the truth are those who pretend there is something even remotely normal about a handful of Iran flags among a sea of Kurdish flags in a protest pertaining to Iran!

Like I said before, stop this coy and cute nonsense. If you guys are ok with tribalism and separatism, come out and say so. If this tribalist division being forced on the revolution from abroad by fund hustlers is fine with you, then defend it. Just don't deny what we can all see with our own eyes.


Complete and utter bs, and reason 100000 why the Iranian left is utter scum. This newfound obsession with tribalism is exclusive to expat leftards and has no relevance to what Iranians are risking their lives for INSIDE Iran. It's just the latest chapter of the pitiful chapfarsi trying to parrot whatever the Western left has pulled out its ass this year. Wokeism and race war has now replaced class warfare for the Western left, so right on cue the chapfarsi lunatics have followed suit.

The insane part is that back in 1979 when dollar was 7 toman and laborers could afford houses, Iranian leftists helped burn the country down in the name of "kaargaraan va zahmatkeshan"! Now that 60% of the nation lives under the line of poverty and laborers have to sell their kidneys to survive, the eyerainian left has abandoned all their slogans about class and poverty and are hell bent on imposing a tribalist division on a united Iran from the comfort of their homes in Europe and North America!

If dividing Iran is so important for treacherous lefties, they need to put their money where their mouth is and go back and risk their lives for their loony toon ideals the same way Iranians inside the country have done.

That jakesh Esmaeilioon wasn't even an opponent of the regime until his family was lost. When the regime slaughtered 1500 people in 2019 he was too busy babbling about Gaza! I have nothing to say to people whose idea of national hero is someone like this scum.

The protestors in Iran including Mahsa's own family have repeatedly shut down this tribalist crap being forced from outside by a few losers, but the parasites are too shameless and greedy for that sweet fund cash to give it up.

(1) روزنامه اینترنتی فراز on Twitter: "دایی #مهسا_امینی در گفت و گو با فراز: «هر کسی می‌خواهد این موضوع را قومیتی کند، صددرصد اشتباه می‌کند. به هیچ‌وجه معتقد نیستیم که چون کرد هستیم از مردم ایران جداییم. همه‌ی ایران خانواده‌ی ماست. ما در یک خاک زندگی می‌کنیم و خاک‌مان برای ما مقدس است». https://t.co/V09Jst4bdB" / Twitter


(1) simon wiesenthal on Twitter: "خوب نگاه کنید خوب گوش بدید بعدا نگویید انقلاب ما را دزدیدند یا بخواهید این خونها را مصادره به مطلوب فانتزی هاتون بکنید: پدر، فرزند در خاک شدهٔ خودش پارهٔ تنش حاصل عمر و امیدش را به ایران هدیه میکند؛ به ایران! به کردستان و تهران و بلوچستان و خوزستان و مازندان و آذربایجان؛ ایران!" / Twitter


This one from Mahsa's mother:


View attachment 46710
Thanks for giving us this textbook example of how monarchists debate (not all, like Zobahan and Meehandust are not like that at all) -- your post has all of the trademarks:

1- The first trait is "hochi-gari". You think that if you shout and are vulgar and rude, your logic becomes stronger.
2- Like other monarchists you have labeling down pat: I'm a leftist, separatist, tribalist traitor :ROFLMAO:
3- And of course you have no regards for facts. Just brush over the fact the for decades 6 year olds went to school only not to be allowed to speak their language, the only language they knew and grew up with up to that point. Of course the expectation to speak your language as a child is tribalism, and anyone who thinks it's human rights or simple decency is a tribalist leftist traitor.

I'm not even going to bother answering you, because there is no coherence to your post. I have no idea how Mahsa got into the discussion, who gives a hoot about Rajavi, and who these leftist groups are that you keep talking about. The rest of your post though, including your behind-the-keyboard suggestion for others to put their money where their mouth is, just priceless with great entertainment value.

Just one more point, one more reason that I really appreciate your post is because it's great reminder of the type of democracy that we will have in Iran if things go your way. So thanks for your contribution!
 

IEI

Administrator
Staff member
Nov 10, 2002
14,508
3,342
I have talked with the Kurds with their flag, they don't want separation, they just want to be noticed as Kurdish fighting for Iran.
It is funny that when someone has opinion, say it as though it is 100 percent facts. just say I strongly believe rather than tagging everyone. Again, I supported RP but his recent actions are disappointing. I expect better action that the group of guys that send emails to European union members that don't meet anyone except RP because he is the only truly representative of Iranians. Who the f .... Gave you the right ?
Meanwhile have a great weekend, everyone except monarchist are traitors lol
 
Nov 15, 2022
130
98
Thanks for giving us this textbook example of how monarchists debate (not all, like Zobahan and Meehandust are not like that at all) -- your post has all of the trademarks:

1- The first trait is "hochi-gari". You think that if you shout and are vulgar and rude, your logic becomes stronger.
2- Like other monarchists you have labeling down pat: I'm a leftist, separatist, tribalist traitor :ROFLMAO:
3- And of course you have no regards for facts. Just brush over the fact the for decades 6 year olds went to school only not to be allowed to speak their language, the only language they knew and grew up with up to that point. Of course the expectation to speak your language as a child is tribalism, and anyone who thinks it's human rights or simple decency is a tribalist leftist traitor.

I'm not even going to bother answering you, because there is no coherence to your post. I have no idea how Mahsa got into the discussion, who gives a hoot about Rajavi, and who these leftist groups are that you keep talking about. The rest of your post though, including your behind-the-keyboard suggestion for others to put their money where their mouth is, just priceless with great entertainment value.

Just one more point, one more reason that I really appreciate your post is because it's great reminder of the type of democracy that we will have in Iran if things go your way. So thanks for your contribution!
You have no answer to the points I raised and you know it. Mahsa's family is perfectly relevant to the discussion because the divisive tribalist agenda being shoehorned into the revolution from abroad is in direct contradiction to the stated goals and wishes of the revolutionaries and their families who have put their lives on the line. The Amini family themselves have gone out of their way repeatedly to call out this nonsense and voice their opposition to it. The fact that Alinezhad and Esmal don't care and keep up this circus speaks volumes.

What monarchists and nationalists want is in line with the stated goals of people inside Iran. What the Alinezhad/Esmal gang are pushing is not merely different but actually opposite to what the people in Iran are fighting for. In fact much of it is so in tune with regime propaganda that it's downright suspicious. This faction has all but relegated itself to MKO 2.0. Just as irrelevant, and just as despised by the people inside.
 
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IEI

Administrator
Staff member
Nov 10, 2002
14,508
3,342
It is not to say Esmaeilion shouldn't be criticized n either. He sitting with those two fools in the European union was not appreciated.
 

Zob Ahan

Elite Member
Feb 4, 2005
17,481
2,233
I have talked with the Kurds with their flag, they don't want separation, they just want to be noticed as Kurdish fighting for Iran.
It is funny that when someone has opinion, say it as though it is 100 percent facts. just say I strongly believe rather than tagging everyone. Again, I supported RP but his recent actions are disappointing. I expect better action that the group of guys that send emails to European union members that don't meet anyone except RP because he is the only truly representative of Iranians. Who the f .... Gave you the right ?
Meanwhile have a great weekend, everyone except monarchist are traitors lol
Not the case. Those with the flags all belong to "Kurdish" parties that have been killing each other more than IR has. No self respecting Kurd would carry that flag.
These MOFOs in the west have been pushing this mellat ha agenda whereas Mahsa's uncle on the first day said "Mahsa was the daughter of Iran".
 

footy

Elite Member
Aug 28, 2019
4,142
841
Marina Dool Rey
I have talked with the Kurds with their flag, they don't want separation, they just want to be noticed as Kurdish fighting for Iran.
It is funny that when someone has opinion, say it as though it is 100 percent facts. just say I strongly believe rather than tagging everyone. Again, I supported RP but his recent actions are disappointing. I expect better action that the group of guys that send emails to European union members that don't meet anyone except RP because he is the only truly representative of Iranians. Who the f .... Gave you the right ?
Meanwhile have a great weekend, everyone except monarchist are traitors lol
Like how many Kurds have you spoken to? Understand majority feel that. How do we know for sure?