Hassan Roshan or Ali Karimi ?

[Babr]

Live you mean ? nothing, nor did I maradonna or Pele playing But i have watched shit load TM games of the past and seen him there.
Actually I should correct myself, the game during Rowshan time was different vs Karimi time, so was during Maradonna time vs Messi and so on, Defending is A LOT different now compared to then, so in the second thought, not sure it is fair to compare the players.

fair enough then

 

[IEI]

So why are you comparing these two in the first place ? Best of past vs Best of present.
I don't know much about Roshan cause I honestly haven't seen his games that much, but I don't think Ali Karimi is the best player of this generation. He was a flashy player with a lot of potential, sure. but for instance Kia was far more accomplished in Europe consistently through the years.

 

[Sly]

It's interesting to read some of you guys' comments! Romanticizing the past, ay?

 

[oghabealborz]

So why are you comparing these two in the first place ? Best of past vs Best of present.
I don't know much about Roshan cause I honestly haven't seen his games that much, but I don't think Ali Karimi is the best player of this generation. He was a flashy player with a lot of potential, sure. but for instance Kia was far more accomplished in Europe consistently through the years.

Well I thought it may be interesting to compare two of the best offensive players we have had , and maybe give this half dead forum a bit of life ...but obviously it is not easy to please everyone .

 

[oghabealborz]

It's interesting to read some of you guys' comments! Romanticizing the past, ay?

yeah man ,you got it ....I am just doing some warm up before my audition with Warner brothers on first of April .

meanwhile why don't you watch this game and see where my romanticizing comes from !

https://youtu.be/eaC64ejN3as

https://youtu.be/Hk245PtTHLU

 

[kasra1930]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl-pMgmdLMQ


دوستان عزیز اگر می***خواهید دریبل و سرعت روشن را ببینید این کلیپ را ببینید

 

[IEI]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl-pMgmdLMQ


دوستان عزیز اگر می***خواهید دریبل و سرعت روشن را ببینید این کلیپ را ببینید

He didn't even score

 

[Sly]

yeah man ,you got it ....I am just doing some warm up before my audition with Warner brothers on first of April .

meanwhile why don't you watch this game and see where my romanticizing comes from !

https://youtu.be/eaC64ejN3as

https://youtu.be/Hk245PtTHLU

Oghab joon, i just watched the game (I can't believe I actually spend time and watched it ) and there are lots of things to say about it! For example, the level of our football hasn't improved one bit. We do play this way even today (at least if you count out our WC game against Argentina). or for example what an amateurish defense we had before Poland's third goal...Jesus, unbelievable!

As for Roshan, he scored a great goal!

Although I'm sure you guys are very nostalgic about that time and the players you watched in your younger days. I think a player like Sardar Azmoun is no where even close to have achieved anything yet, so to me he's yet a nobody in our football! But if you posted a video of Hassan Roshan scoring a goal like he did here below, you guys would probably call Roshan one of the best players in the world.

[video=youtube;vk-_50VLoTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-_50VLoTE[/video]

Again, this is not to compare a yet "nobody" like Azmoun with Roshan so please don't misunderstand me. I just think you guy are a bit too emotional.

As for me....... I haven't seen an Asian player, (let alone an Iranian player) to dominate a game "all alone" like Karimi did against UAE in Tehran back in the WCQ 2001. He missed a lot of scoring chances which if you are fair and not subjective would call his weakness but to be fair he was the whole game! Even the Swedish commentator compared him to Maradona in that game. and yes... I'm yet to see an Asian player to dominate a game all by himself like Karimi did.

Unfortunately everybody only remember him as a great dribbler. To me, he was much more than that! The precision he had in his long passes, you could only compare with Mahdavikia's from the right. The only difference was, Karimi had the precision from both right and left. The imagination he had and his explosiveness in the middle of the game, made our attacks the most dangerous for any opponent. Yet, Karimi is not even my favorite player! I just named him since you brought him up! I'd say Karim Bagheri was the most complete Iranian player I ever saw.

 

[Finally]

I am not as nostalgic as some of the other members here, but you might want to find out about Poland team of the 70's and their star players such as Kazimierz Deyna, Grzegorz Lato and Andrzej Szarmach to name a few.
You are correct about the amateurish defending and that's exactly what these players were at that time and to see them to hold their own against a power house like Poland was a great achievement.
If memory serves me right, Poland made it to the final that year and ended up with a silver medal and the previous Olympic of 1972, they became champions.

Oghab joon, i just watched the game (I can't believe I actually spend time and watched it ) and there are lots of things to say about it! For example, the level of our football hasn't improved one bit. We do play this way even today (at least if you count out our WC game against Argentina). or for example what an amateurish defense we had before Poland's third goal...Jesus, unbelievable!

As for Roshan, he scored a great goal!

Although I'm sure you guys are very nostalgic about that time and the players you watched in your younger days. I think a player like Sardar Azmoun is no where even close to have achieved anything yet, so to me he's yet a nobody in our football! But if you posted a video of Hassan Roshan scoring a goal like he did here below, you guys would probably call Roshan one of the best players in the world.

[video=youtube;vk-_50VLoTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-_50VLoTE[/video]

Again, this is not to compare a yet "nobody" like Azmoun with Roshan so please don't misunderstand me. I just think you guy are a bit too emotional.

As for me....... I haven't seen an Asian player, (let alone an Iranian player) to dominate a game "all alone" like Karimi did against UAE in Tehran back in the WCQ 2001. He missed a lot of scoring chances which if you are fair and not subjective would call his weakness but to be fair he was the whole game! Even the Swedish commentator compared him to Maradona in that game. and yes... I'm yet to see an Asian player to dominate a game all by himself like Karimi did.

Unfortunately everybody only remember him as a great dribbler. To me, he was much more than that! The precision he had in his long passes, you could only compare with Mahdavikia's from the right. The only difference was, Karimi had the precision from both right and left. The imagination he had and his explosiveness in the middle of the game, made our attacks the most dangerous for any opponent. Yet, Karimi is not even my favorite player! I just named him since you brought him up! I'd say Karim Bagheri was the most complete Iranian player I ever saw.

 

[oghabealborz]

Oghab joon, i just watched the game (I can't believe I actually spend time and watched it ) and there are lots of things to say about it! For example, the level of our football hasn't improved one bit. We do play this way even today (at least if you count out our WC game against Argentina). or for example what an amateurish defense we had before Poland's third goal...Jesus, unbelievable!

As for Roshan, he scored a great goal!

Although I'm sure you guys are very nostalgic about that time and the players you watched in your younger days. I think a player like Sardar Azmoun is no where even close to have achieved anything yet, so to me he's yet a nobody in our football! But if you posted a video of Hassan Roshan scoring a goal like he did here below, you guys would probably call Roshan one of the best players in the world.

[video=youtube;vk-_50VLoTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-_50VLoTE[/video]

Again, this is not to compare a yet "nobody" like Azmoun with Roshan so please don't misunderstand me. I just think you guy are a bit too emotional.

As for me....... I haven't seen an Asian player, (let alone an Iranian player) to dominate a game "all alone" like Karimi did against UAE in Tehran back in the WCQ 2001. He missed a lot of scoring chances which if you are fair and not subjective would call his weakness but to be fair he was the whole game! Even the Swedish commentator compared him to Maradona in that game. and yes... I'm yet to see an Asian player to dominate a game all by himself like Karimi did.

Unfortunately everybody only remember him as a great dribbler. To me, he was much more than that! The precision he had in his long passes, you could only compare with Mahdavikia's from the right. The only difference was, Karimi had the precision from both right and left. The imagination he had and his explosiveness in the middle of the game, made our attacks the most dangerous for any opponent. Yet, Karimi is not even my favorite player! I just named him since you brought him up! I'd say Karim Bagheri was the most complete Iranian player I ever saw.

good post sly jan , I enjoyed reading it and what you brought up .

Regarding the game you saw ,you had to keep in mind that we were playing against a Poland team that was like Holland a very good team in the world , at the time their were 3rd best team of world cup 1974 ,it was a big game for us and it was great leading them 1-0 at half time ,few mistakes cost us the goals but nobody expected a win against such a team ,remember these are the 1970s and Iran football had no real experience outside of Asia .

Sardar's goal was pure genius ,as good as it gets at any stage . there is no reason not to expect sardar becoming a player like Van Nistelroy or van basten , I believe he can be and would love him to do it .

My thought of bringing up Roshan and Karimi was becuase they have both finished their football and both were Aces for team melli .

Hassan Roshan was only 22 -23 years old in world cup 78 with something like 30 caps which was a lot in those days for a player at his age ,just imagine what he could have been like if he could have played like 100 times for Iran.

 

[Sly]

Yes, I do understand the achievement of that team against the very strong Poland side! My post was not to belittle that team but rather point out the miserable future after that team and until now! As I said, if you count out the Argentina game, I don't really see much difference from how we play today compared to then. and that is really a disaster! No wonder a lot of Asian teams have started to surpass us. If things continue like this, I expect Uzbekistan to be the first team we'll have a hard time to beat. They will join Korea and Japan to become an Asian powerhouse in a couple of years. From what I hear both China and India are spending a lot of money to increase the quality of their football. I can imagine after Uzbekistan, China will become the next powerhouse in the near future and judging by their man power and their youngsters, I think India can reach the level of Qatar and Bahrain in a couple of years. and then.... where are we? We still play the way we played back in the 70's!

If things continue the way they are, I can see us out of the WC every time!

The mafia problem in our football doesn't seem to be solved any time soon so at least we need to start fixing other problems! Hashemian really hit the nail on the head when he said we need to have a set philosophy in our football with which all our clubs play! That way, the coaches and the players in all our clubs will be used to the same mentality and then TM head coach don't need to spend too much time adjusting everyone with each other!

I hope guys like Hashemian, Mahdavikia, even Daei and others who've experienced European professionalism, take charge of things in our football so we can progress as soon as possible.

Ps. by the way oghab jan, thanks for the videos. It was interesting to see the old players in action again.

 

[oghabealborz]

I am not as nostalgic as some of the other members here, but you might want to find out about Poland team of the 70's and their star players such as Kazimierz Deyna, Grzegorz Lato and Andrzej Szarmach to name a few.
You are correct about the amateurish defending and that's exactly what these players were at that time and to see them to hold their own against a power house like Poland was a great achievement.
If memory serves me right, Poland made it to the final that year and ended up with a silver medal and the previous Olympic of 1972, they became champions.

Kazimir Dyna ,Andreh Zharmackh and Lato and their goalkeeper Tomajowski were top world class players ,they managed to eliminate England at wembley and qualify ahead of them for world cup 1974 and only lost the semifinal to Germany in extra time .

I think Lato and Zharmakh won European player of the year award and Dyna their captain also came close to winning it .

Thier goalie was regarded as one of the best in the world .

 

[Finally]

Kaz Dyna played his final years in San Diego sockers indoor team and I was lucky enough to play few pickup games against him for fun. What a skillful player he was. He died in a car crash in 1989.

Kazimir Dyna ,Andreh Zharmackh and Lato and their goalkeeper Tomajowski were top world class players ,they managed to eliminate England at wembley and qualify ahead of them for world cup 1974 and only lost the semifinal to Germany in extra time .

I think Lato and Zharmakh won European player of the year award and Dyna their captain also came close to winning it .

Thier goalie was regarded as one of the best in the world .

 

[oghabealborz]

Kaz Dyna played his final years in San Diego sockers indoor team and I was lucky enough to play few pickup games against him for fun. What a skillful player he was. He died in a car crash in 1989.

Wow ! what a privilege to play in the same game as him ! did you ever ask him about his experience with Iran ?

 

[Finally]

Wow ! what a privilege to play in the same game as him ! did you ever ask him about his experience with Iran ?

This was a long time ago. I think it was in mid 80's. I was very young and did not really know who he was at that time except that he played for San Diego Sockers.
San Diego Sockers was the best indoor teams in US with many championships under her belt. It used have so many talented players and every once in a while we would get to play with/against them in pickup games in San Diego.
Those were the good old days...

 

[oghabealborz]

Yes, I do understand the achievement of that team against the very strong Poland side! My post was not to belittle that team but rather point out the miserable future after that team and until now! As I said, if you count out the Argentina game, I don't really see much difference from how we play today compared to then. and that is really a disaster! No wonder a lot of Asian teams have started to surpass us. If things continue like this, I expect Uzbekistan to be the first team we'll have a hard time to beat. They will join Korea and Japan to become an Asian powerhouse in a couple of years. From what I hear both China and India are spending a lot of money to increase the quality of their football. I can imagine after Uzbekistan, China will become the next powerhouse in the near future and judging by their man power and their youngsters, I think India can reach the level of Qatar and Bahrain in a couple of years. and then.... where are we? We still play the way we played back in the 70's!

If things continue the way they are, I can see us out of the WC every time!

The mafia problem in our football doesn't seem to be solved any time soon so at least we need to start fixing other problems! Hashemian really hit the nail on the head when he said we need to have a set philosophy in our football with which all our clubs play! That way, the coaches and the players in all our clubs will be used to the same mentality and then TM head coach don't need to spend too much time adjusting everyone with each other!

I hope guys like Hashemian, Mahdavikia, even Daei and others who've experienced European professionalism, take charge of things in our football so we can progress as soon as possible.

Ps. by the way oghab jan, thanks for the videos. It was interesting to see the old players in action again.

Yeah sly jan ,we all know the problems we have had with our football ,this thread is more about what happened on the pitch and with the players .

you see when watch the game did you notice how are players faired one on one against their formidable opponents who had only lost 1-0 to Germany and missed the world cup finals but went on to beat Brazil to finish third ...what I want to say is don't compare the teams but compare the players facing each other.

In terms of football as a team we were no where near Poland ,our experience ,tactics ,stamina and physical conditioning were miles apart ,but in terms of skills and spirit we were on par .

But back then nobody knew how good our players against world class players ,in 1972 we lost heavily to Denmark and Hungary and this was the first time we were facing our toughest opponent in a match .

 

[oghabealborz]

This was a long time ago. I think it was in mid 80's. I was very young and did not really know who he was at that time except that he played for San Diego Sockers.
San Diego Sockers was the best indoor teams in US with many championships under her belt. It used have so many talented players and every once in a while we would get to play with/against them in pickup games in San Diego.
Those were the good old days...

you must have been a very good player to play in the same game as him .....or very rich ...or both !

PS. can you lend me a tenner ?!