hoshang amirahmadi

[khodam]

Dear Khodam - you keep asking for evidence.......what kind of evidence? A written confession from TP?

I'm looking for solid evidence, like what you claimed, that they are misinforming the US administration.

Here is the link to some of his e-mails to IR officials which came out in the court process...Daei attorneys revealed them years ago...
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/movement/trita-tehran/index.htm

Thanks Masoud. These are interesting but all these are linked back to a single source, Hassan Dai. The actual ruling on their case makes no mention of these emails while it discusses quite a few other emails. Can you point me to court documents of these emails? I couldn't find them. And quite frankly I don't trust Dai on this issue the same way that I won't trust Trita Parsi if he's the sole source of a document against Dai.

Also, even if he exchanged those emails with Zarif it doesn't mean he was working for IRI. At those times he was lobbying for and facilitating direct talks between Khatami's government and US administration. Just exchanging emails with Zarif doesn't make the guy a traitor. Zarif was friends with Charlie Rose, and I'm sure they exchanged emails. Does that make Charlie Rose an IRI agent?

Couple of years ago I posted an article about a US senate hearing in which TP testified....part of his testimony was that majority of Iranians support IR......a US Senator asked him: What do the rest support? I don't have an archive.........

Hey there is this thing called google. If it was couple of years ago on ISP it shouldn't be difficult to find it. If you can't reproduce it then excuse me for not accepting it as hard proof. Here is his position after 2009 unrest:

NIAC Memo: What Obama Must Do Now On Iran

And what he says: "But here is one legitimate criticism , the Iranians are missing two words from Obama: "I condemn." Protesters and political leaders I've spoken to in Iran want the US to speak out forcefully against the government's human rights abuses and condemn the violence. Philosophical formulations about respecting the wishes of the Iranian people aren't enough: The president should clearly condemn the Iranian government's violations and use of brutal force against its own people."

Also - In response to what NIAC has done against IR - on top of your list was actions for Human Rights in Iran...!!! You do remember just a few short years ago NIAC and Trita refused to address anything relating to IR human rights violations, and openly admitted to it.

No I don't remember that. I would appreciate if you can point me to it.

But also remember that before this government, they were very much involved in a rapprochement between IRI and US, that's what they believed in. I can see that they would refrain from criticizing the regime while they move on the engagement front. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. That said, I still would like to see where they say that.

 

[Flint]

NIAC Applauds Extension of Mandate for UN Iran Humans Rights Monitor

excerpt: "NIAC reiterates its condemnation of the Iranian government’s human rights abuses and again urges Iranian authorites to grant Dr. Shaheed unhindered access to investigate the human rights situation in the country. NIAC calls on the government of Iran to release all prisoners of conscience, such as Nasrin Sotoudeh; halt the systematic violations of human rights documented in Dr. Shaheed's report; and to fully cooperate with the monitor."

NIAC Calls for Release of Iranian Journalists

excerpt: "NIAC condemns the Iranian government’s recent arrests of at least 14 journalists in Tehran, an act that demonstrates the government’s continued brazen disregard for freedom of expression. This marks the latest in a long history of harassment and detainment of journalists by Iran’s rulers. NIAC repeats its call on the Iranian authorities to free all political prisoners and prisoners of conscience, to adhere to their human rights obligations, and to grant the UN Special Rapporteur on human rights in Iran full access to the country."

NIAC Statement on Ahmadinejad UN Speech

excerpt: "The international community should not be distracted by today's predictably incendiary speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. We must not allow the words of a politically marginalized president who is on the last leg of his presidency to distract from the very serious human rights abuses that continue to occur in Iran and the looming threat of a disastrous war between the U.S., Israel and Iran."

That's just from this year's policy releases on Human Rights by NIAC.

You consider these press releases "truly damaging" to IR? Their condemnations take a word processor and a fax machine but when it comes to issues that would matter to IR, they hold conferences, meet with senators and congressmen and go on talk shows. At which point have they flatly stated that this regime is illegitimate and must go?

 

[shahinc]

Dear Khodam - you keep asking for evidence.......what kind of evidence? A written confession from TP?
Here is the link to some of his e-mails to IR officials which came out in the court process...Daei attorneys revealed them years ago...
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/movement/trita-tehran/index.htm

Couple of years ago I posted an article about a US senate hearing in which TP testified....part of his testimony was that majority of Iranians support IR......a US Senator asked him: What do the rest support? I don't have an archive.........
Also - In response to what NIAC has done against IR - on top of your list was actions for Human Rights in Iran...!!! You do remember just a few short years ago NIAC and Trita refused to address anything relating to IR human rights violations, and openly admitted to it.

Masoud Jan, some people JUST don't want to believe what they don't like to hear.

Some of us had our suspicious about AIC and NIAC and Amirahmadi and Trita for years.

Finally, a guy like Amirahmadi comes out and does what he did and confirms all the suspecious.

When it comes to Trita Joon and NIAC, there are TOO MANY RED FLAGS.

From Tirita's past and how as a Zoroastrian son of political prisoners he was able to get access to IR officials in such a young age !!

Or the People who he has worked for and had a close ties with for years such AmirAhmadi and Senator Ney ( Simple act of kindness ).

His efforts to implement the policies and demands of IR for years here in US ...

The list goes on and on ... the RED FLAGS ARE THERE.

Some of us choose to see them, accept them and turn on back towards this organization.

Some other people see the red flags, become cautious and also become suspicious of this organization and stop their support.


However, some choose to ignore these RED FLAGS and constantly ask for solid evidences and poke holes in everything that is presented.

It is along the same behaviour like when G4P and Ashtar and Reza were asking about solid evidence that the election was stolen ...
It is along the same line of thinking when IR supporters like Reza were asking about solid evidences that IR regime has killed NEDA !!
It is along the same attitude where IR regime supporters were asking about solid proofs about rape and torture of Iranian prisoners and ...

In all those cases, the RED FLAGS and SIGNS were there !!! However, they were comfortable by ignoring them and asking for solid proof. Here is the same thing , just different angle.

The burden of proof is NOT on you or I to supply NIAC supporters with these "Solid Proofs". It is on them and their conscious ...


They want to make zero effort in the search of the TRUTH and feel comefortable following a man whose policies are mirror image of IR. Their conscious is clear by not doing the work and ignoring the raised flags.

If these RED flags are not making curious and making you do your homework and research the guy, then so be it. Do the work yourself if you want to support him.

For me and thousands Iranians around the world, there are enough warning signs about this guy to stay away ... Simple as that.

 

[khodam]

You consider these press releases "truly damaging" to IR? Their condemnations take a word processor and a fax machine but when it comes to issues that would matter to IR, they hold conferences, meet with senators and congressmen and go on talk shows. At which point have they flatly stated that this regime is illegitimate and must go?

You asked me to show you positions and speeches that are damaging to IRI and explained damaging as something that would get people in trouble if they were in Iran. That was your definition, not mine. I think those positions and statements qualify, as people have gotten in trouble for much less.

Of course the response was not to your liking and now you're revising your definition. The problem is that first, what is "truly" damaging is of course debatable. I think engagement with IRI is truly damaging, or at least used to be before 2009, but you obviously don't agree. Second, these guys are lobbying for engagement, so calling the other side illegitimate obviously doesn't help their cause. However, if you read their positions, legitimacy doesn't sound like what they think of IRI. Third, what "truly" damaging action can they take against IRI? For that matter, what truly damaging position has any opposition group abroad has taken that has truly shaken the foundation of IRI? Name one. You think by putting illegitimacy of IRI through a word processor and fax machine, as you put it, they will be truly damaging to IRI?

 

[Flint]

Following what NIAC does on a day to day basis is not what I do. When I hear "engagement" red flags go up because that is code for going along with the whims of IR and putting an stamp of approval on their outrageous practices. What concrete demands have they made of IR? Seems to me their version of engagement only means that IR gets goodies NOW for some unspecified, unenforceable commitments from them LATER.

 

[khodam]

The burden of proof is NOT on you or I to supply NIAC supporters with these "Solid Proofs". It is on them and their conscious ...

Shahin, I'm sorry but you got to be kidding!! You call people traitors and the burden of proof is on them to show that they are not?

Your RED FLAGS so far are:

- The guy worked with Amirahmadi 13 years ago, even though he moved on to create a rival organization.
- There are "alleged" (as they do not appear in court documents) email communications between him and IRI's UN ambassador under Khatami, whom he was openly trying to link with US officials, to start direct talks between Iran and the US.
- That he did all this despite being young and Zoroastrian.

Other things are "policy differences", for which you can oppose them, and call their policies stupid. But those policy differences you have with them don't make them traitors.

Now you can compare me with Reza and GP and Ashtar and others all you want and I wouldn't mind, because I think I have been here long enough to be judged based on my own opinion rather than your labels. But it does solidify my point that as a society we have an issue with tolerating opposing views.

 

[khodam]

Following what NIAC does on a day to day basis is not what I do. When I hear "engagement" red flags go up because that is code for going along with the whims of IR and putting an stamp of approval on their outrageous practices. What concrete demands have they made of IR? Seems to me their version of engagement only means that IR gets goodies NOW for some unspecified, unenforceable commitments from them LATER.

I gave an answer to your very specific question, as to what they have done that would put them in trouble if they were in Iran. And they put their names on it, something most of us here wouldn't dare to do.

But you didn't answer me: What could they have done to be truly damaging to IR? What other groups have done to be truly damaging to IR?

As you say, your issue with them is also their engagement policy. Simple as that.

 

[Flint]

But you didn't answer me: What could they have done to be truly damaging to IR? What other groups have done to be truly damaging to IR?

Ask IR to DELIVER results before asking for goodies. Have they done that? Aside from legitimacy inside Iran, they have a load of foreign issues. Has NIAC asked IR to stop funding and arming a paramilitary group in another country with a sovereign government? Have they asked them to stop getting involved in civil wars in other countries? Have they asked them to open up their market to free trade? and on and on and on. Engagement is code word for opening up the purse now for a promise of what they might do in the future. Sorry pal, we can see through that.

 

[khodam]

Ask IR to DELIVER results before asking for goodies. Have they done that? Aside from legitimacy inside Iran, they have a load of foreign issues. Has NIAC asked IR to stop funding and arming a paramilitary group in another country with a sovereign government? Have they asked them to stop getting involved in civil wars in other countries? Have they asked them to open up their market to free trade? and on and on and on. Engagement is code word for opening up the purse now for a promise of what they might do in the future. Sorry pal, we can see through that.

LOL! Because if a bunch of American Eyeranians ask IR to stop doing what it's doing, it'll be "truly" damaging to them and will bring them to their knees!! Good one

 

[Flint]

LOL! Because if a bunch of American Eyeranians ask IR to stop doing what it's doing, it'll be "truly" damaging to them and will bring them to their knees!! Good one

Behet barkhord, ha? That's how I smoke out IR supporters who are masquerading as honest brokers. Thank me for liberating you. Put down the mask and quit appearing as a reasonable, measured voice in the Iran-US relations. You are just another hack.

 

[khodam]

Behet barkhord, ha? That's how I smoke out IR supporters who are masquerading as honest brokers. Thank me for liberating you. Put down the mask and quit appearing as a reasonable, measured voice in the Iran-US relations. You are just another hack.

Dude, you totally exposed my cover. I don't know how I can fool people anymore. Shouldn't have messed with someone as smart as you

Let me break our little chat down for you:

1- You ask me to show you where NIAC has ever taken a position against IR. I show you their policy positions asking IR to release prisoners, and admit UN HR monitor, etc.

2- You say asking IR to do those things takes nothing beyond a word processor and a fax machine.

3- Then I ask you what could have they done? Your brilliant answer is that they should have called IR illegitimate and "asked" IR to stop doing a bunch of things it's doing!! What would have it taken beyond a word processor and a fax machine to do so?

I think the irony is lost on you pal, but I'm having fun :--biggrin

 

[Flint]

The way you get under some's skin is to insult what is near and dear to them. The fact that you took such offense at calling IR to stop their terrorist activities and responded by calling me a "bunch of American Eyeranians" speaks volumes for who you are.

 

[shahinc]

Now you can compare me with Reza and GP and Ashtar and others all you want and I wouldn't mind, because I think I have been here long enough to be judged based on my own opinion rather than your labels. But it does solidify my point that as a society we have an issue with tolerating opposing views.

Khodam Aziz, I have no problem tolerating you and your opposing views.
You are entitled to it and should be free to express it.

At the same time I am not trying to label you.
I am saying that your line of logic and thinking here is like Ashtar and Reza and GP ( NOT that you are an IR supporter like them).

It is that you are using the same techniques and same methods as them trying to prove your point. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

I do tolerate you and your opposing view but give myself the right to ignore and stop the debate with you when I see that it is not going anywhere and it is not following logic anymore and has become a waste of my time.

Now to just get an idea of what your stands are on some issues.
Here are mine:

I am against Negotiation with NO PRE-CONDTION with Rahbari and AN and regime ( emphesize is on no Pre-conditon which you left out).

I am against lifting the sanctions on IR unless it stops its support of Global terrorism and also prosecution of the religious, political and racial minorities.

I am against individuals doing business openly with Iran until this regime is in power because it will give the regime a way to laundry money in and out of Iran.

I am against voting in presidential selection because I find it pointless.



Trita is opposite me on all the above points. I am wondering what is your stand on these issues ?

 

[Irani]

I glanced at the posts quickly. Thanks for keeping most of these discussions clean… in other words, not using profanity.

I tend to agree with khodam.

I will follow your abbreviations…. TP’s family has zardoshti roots… however, some of them, such as his aunt prays Islamic way regularly. TP worked for Bob Ney, yes Ney got into trouble for which hundreds of senators and congress people have not gotten into trouble. There was a double standard… sort of good terrorist… bad terrorist stuff that has been going on lately.

No one has mentioned where Dai gets his support. Dai has lied and picked up a fight with TP. It was mentioned in one thread that Dai used Lawyers without borders or something close to that. I did not comment there, but this information was wrong. Dai has access to best lawyers without having a job. Dai mentioned in an interview, he does some construction work in Arizona, USA. There have been pictures of Dai with his sister and Maryam Rajavi. There are many other US senators and congress people who have taken pictures with Maryam Rajavi. I saw a senator in California on NIAC’s site with Maryam Rajavi recently.

Why no one questions where Maryam Rajavi gets her money to pay US senators and congress members? How come in one MKO rally, senator Robert Kennedy received $25,000 for speaking for five minutes? Yes, $25,000 which to me is a lot of money.

Dai, and several ISP members have been against NIAC since its inception. NIAC is NOT perfect. I have disagreed with some of their articles and stance… but fully supported it when they have written against sanction of civilian airplane parts to give an example. By the way, sanction of civilian airplane parts against Iran has been illegal and western countries know that but they do not care.

It has been proven that Western countries do NOT care about Iran or Iranians.

AIPAC does not like NIAC because it has stood to them. To me, AIPAC is similar to an elephant with 245 employees and over hundreds of millions of dollar in budget whereas NIAC is an ant with TP and two part-time employees and less than two or three hundred dollars in budget.

There are members here who posted before at ISP and another site that TP was not born in Iran. They were proven wrong. Then one ISP member posted TP’s picture and said he looked this or that. To me, criticizing someone's look without showing your own look is considered low life.

In general, I give a lot of credit to the people who use their real names and pictures and support Iranian people.

I remember thirty years ago, in an economic class we used to joke… it went something like this: if you keep saying the same thing, in the long term, say 20-30 years, economic cycle will validate your stance and you end up getting a noble prize in economics. This happened to a dozen of US economists such as the famous Milton Freedman.

What Dr. Amirahmadi mentioned in the tape posted is totally new and he funnily said … yes he would support subsidies. He knows better that subsidies are not cure for Iran’s economic problems. It is a WRONG logic to conclude what Amirahmadi mentioned in the video was his stance before.

I agree with Flint that if NIAC was strong they could stop MKO’s removal from terrorist list. NIAC tried but MKO paid senators and congressman who lifted the ban in their favor. WHY no one is talking about those senators such as three in Florida and one in orange county California who openly have supported MKO and have their pictures taken with Maryam Rajavi?

Iranians need our support for example, to lift civilian airplane parts sanctions. I have learned ISP is not a place to get into serious discussions, but there are good ISP members that is WHY I keep visiting it when a get a chance. Payandeh Iran.

 

[Ardesheer]

No one has mentioned where Dai gets his support. Dai has lied and picked up a fight with TP. It was mentioned in one thread that Dai used Lawyers without borders or something close to that. I did not comment there, but this information was wrong. Dai has access to best lawyers without having a job. Dai mentioned in an interview, he does some construction work in Arizona, USA.

Read this article and you learn who represented him. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/16/Predatory-Lawsuit-Rebounds-Back-on-Iranian-Front-Group

Pro bono means for free.

Also, Parsi brought a defamation lawsuit, and then he committed discovery abuses. Read the end of the article. Judges rarely sanction parties, and the judge in this case sanctioned Parsi.

 

[Irani]

Read this article and you learn who represented him. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/16/Predatory-Lawsuit-Rebounds-Back-on-Iranian-Front-Group

Pro bono means for free.

Also, Parsi brought a defamation lawsuit, and then he committed discovery abuses. Read the end of the article. Judges rarely sanction parties, and the judge in this case sanctioned Parsi.

Pro bono. Can I get pro bono lawyers to represent me? Hell no!!

The lawyers, who represented Dai, pro bono, are the same lawyers who represented Ex president, Mr. Bush and several other neo-cons who have spewed anti-Iran slogans. (Did not use names in case pro bono lawyers go after me. LOL.)

No comment about Dai and Maryam Rajavi? No comment where MKO gets its funding(s)? No comments about US senators and congress people who voted to lifted the ban against MKO? I am sure these senators and congress people did not do it pro bono…. sigh….

 

[Flint]

The lawyers, who represented Dai, pro bono, are the same lawyers who represented Ex president, Mr. Bush and several other neo-cons who have spewed anti-Iran slogans.

Let them talk enough and they eventually show their true colors. IR has never forgiven Bush for landing troops in their backyard, east and west, so their henchmen never miss a chance to get back at him. Secondly, I want to read those "anti-Iran" slogans? Did they "spew" anti-Kourosh slogans? Did they condemn Iran's history? Did they vilify Iranian people? No, they most likely condemned IR for their outrageous practices, and you don't like that.

 

[Irani]

Let them talk enough and they eventually show their true colors. IR has never forgiven Bush for landing troops in their backyard, east and west, so their henchmen never miss a chance to get back at him. Secondly, I want to read those "anti-Iran" slogans? Did they "spew" anti-Kourosh slogans? Did they condemn Iran's history? Did they vilify Iranian people? No, they most likely condemned IR for their outrageous practices, and you don't like that.

Oh well, you are making personal statement without knowing me. This sort of comments make me think WHY bother to post at ISP… sigh…

To help you and others, a congressman from California who has spewed anti-Iran slogans. He is from Orange County, California, he has a picture with Maryam Rajavi, and he has advocated for several years for separation of Iran. Check the NIAC’s site or click here:
http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9155&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

 

[Irani]

Read this article and you learn who represented him. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/16/Predatory-Lawsuit-Rebounds-Back-on-Iranian-Front-Group

Also, Parsi brought a defamation lawsuit, and then he committed discovery abuses. Read the end of the article. Judges rarely sanction parties, and the judge in this case sanctioned Parsi.

Washington Spectator:
http://www.washingtonspectator.org/...destroy-an-american-antiwar-organization.html

 

[Flint]

Oh well, you are making personal statement without knowing me. This sort of comments make me think WHY bother to post at ISP… sigh…

I don't know you? I know you all too well. All it took was a few "keywords" that kept popping up in your posts that betrayed where you are coming from. Oh, read my post on your other thread. You'll really like that one.