Iran rehearsed attacking Haifa and Dimona, shot at civilian airplanes

[arash_kaman]

[h=2]http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=286447

Classified report says Tehran used models of Israeli cities, 'NY Times' reports, accidentally shot at civilian airliners.[/h]

Photo: Reuters The Iranian military is using firing ranges designed to resemble Haifa and Dimona to rehearse an air attack on Israel, the New York Times quoted classified Pentagon intelligence reports as saying on Wednesday.
Following Israel's reported attack on a Syrian nuclear reactor under construction in September 2007, and an IAF drill over the Mediterranean in June 2008, the Iranian Air Force started conducting "daily air-to-ground attack training (GAT) at firing ranges resembling the Israeli city of Haifa and the Israeli nuclear facility at Dimona," the classified report by the Defense Intelligence Agency noted.

 

[parham79]

2010 IRIAF shut down an friendly F-4E despite the Phantoms squakhawk IFF system having the friendly code sequences on it. It shows how ill perpeard the air defense unit is. God forbid the USAF B-2 bombers come.

 

[Flint]

So we are led to believe that IAF can't reach Iran but Iran's 30 year old air force can reach Israel and make it back?

 

[Behrooz_C]

This is a bullshit story. It's jpost, so what do you expect It's all part of BiBi's effort to stir the US and the West towards a war against Iran.

 

[parham79]

Flint, iran has the biggest tanker in the world in a massive 747 air refueling platform. Plus Iranian Sukhoi 24's(4 thousend kilometer range ) and the F-4D's can reach Syria. The Sukhois can use their own buddy probes to refuel themselves along thejourney most likely route would be flying at just over 1,000 feet along the Iraqi and Turkish borders to avoid being detected by the GCI of those countries.In this kind of formation it is called terrain skimming manuver .Once they land in Syria, they will be loaded with their ordanances like the Kh-29 L for the Sukhois and Maverick and iranian made Qassed for the Phantoms. The mission will be a one way suicide mission as Israel has the one of the best air defenses in the world so there wont be coming back for the fighters.

 

[Flint]

If IR wants to attack Israel missiles are their best bet. It makes no sense to take on so much risk and deliver so little load. Yes, there was the Dolittle raid but they didn't have missiles back then.

 

[ParanoidBenchwarmer]

If IR wants to attack Israel missiles are their best bet. It makes no sense to take on so much risk and deliver so little load. Yes, there was the Dolittle raid but they didn't have missiles back then.

I agree. The last time Iran had success in the air was against sadam's airforce. Iran had US trained pilots and US made fighter planes. Now Iran has neither. The Iranian top gun pilots no longer in service. Pilot training poor. Fighter planes in poor quality and quantity. 35 Mig29 is no match against Israel F-15E and F16s and their topgun pilots. Iran's only hope is to lunch couple of feshfeshe hoping it will hit something. All these military 'might' of Iran is overblown. Iran just has formidable groundforce to be used as a Ascemetric warfare. Iran has no airforce. No Navy. When you don't own you own skies, that is the most fundemental flaw which will lead to lose a war. Iran just has few battery of M1Tor defensive missiles that is the state of the art but it is a short range defence missile. Few of them are protecting khamenie and his families compounds. The rest are at the atomic sights. Thats all folks! One US aircraft carrier can change the Iranian regime! One US submarine can hit all the airforce bases.

 

[parham79]

I dont know where you get you're numbers from, but i know from the people who actually served in the air force till a few years ago that you're assumptions are wrong. Iran has more then 35 Fulcrums. We have more then 16 Fulcrum UB's alone(Trainers). There are well over 55 to 60 Fulcrums in service at Fakouri TFB. 2 and Mehrabad TFB. 1 They are mostly at their mother base in Tabriz which is TFB.2.

Also we can certianly ward off an israelie attack as they dont have the technology or the firepower the united states has.Iran has over 50 Tomcats with upgraded avionics and weapon systems, 55 Fulcrums and over 75 F-4 E and D's in service.Also Iran dosent have to knockout the whole IAF strike packiage to make their mission a failure, only enough to make it a failure due to lack of ordanances.Iranian pilots are not at the level of the israelies, but over Iranian airsoace, they will have the ground crews vectoring(directing) them into weapons envelope(optimum range to use their missiles ) on the israelies. The israelies wont have that advantage unless the USAF AWACS are helping them. Plus iranian pilots know the terrain like a back of their hands and will use it to their advantage in a manuver which is called terrain masking .

I'm not even getting into the specifics like the ingress routes of the israelie fighters and which countriers will or wont allow the to use their airspace.Orhow will they make air refuelling over or close to iran because their tankers will become targets for the ianian AIM-54's

 

[parham79]

I never said it is smart to risk using iran's best long range strike bomber like the Sukhoi-24, but i said it is more then capeable of such a feet.

 

[ParanoidBenchwarmer]

I dont know where you get you're numbers from, but i know from the people who actually served in the air force till a few years ago that you're assumptions are wrong. Iran has more then 35 Fulcrums. We have more then 16 Fulcrum UB's alone(Trainers). There are well over 55 to 60 Fulcrums in service at Fakouri TFB. 2 and Mehrabad TFB. 1 They are mostly at their mother base in Tabriz which is TFB.2.

Also we can certianly ward off an israelie attack as they dont have the technology or the firepower the united states has.Iran has over 50 Tomcats with upgraded avionics and weapon systems, 55 Fulcrums and over 75 F-4 E and D's in service.Also Iran dosent have to knockout the whole IAF strike packiage to make their mission a failure, only enough to make it a failure due to lack of ordanances.Iranian pilots are not at the level of the israelies, but over Iranian airsoace, they will have the ground crews vectoring(directing) them into weapons envelope(optimum range to use their missiles ) on the israelies. The israelies wont have that advantage unless the USAF AWACS are helping them. Plus iranian pilots know the terrain like a back of their hands and will use it to their advantage in a manuver which is called terrain masking .

I'm not even getting into the specifics like the ingress routes of the israelie fighters and which countriers will or wont allow the to use their airspace.Orhow will they make air refuelling over or close to iran because their tankers will become targets for the ianian AIM-54's

It really doesn't matter how many planes Iran has. It will come down to pilot training. Iran has none. Caurrently Iran's airforce is 20% of what Sadam had when he invaded Kuwait. Look at what happened to his mighty airforce. Decimated. The only pilot training our airforce had was in North Korea when iran purchased state of the 'art' Mig 21 from the chinese for the sepah. Those Migs were so bad that they kept crashing. Then Iran purchase some Mig 29 from Russia. That was the export version. US had obtained some Mig 29 from Iraq and they are constantly flying it in the US. They know its strenght and weaknesses. They are no match to the US fighters and God forbits if F22 or F35 are inaction. Then the Russian wanted to sell Iran 300 SU30. After inspecting the planes in Russia, the Iranians found out that this export version is no match to the US planes and the Persian Gulf airforces. The sell did not take place. Finaly, Iran decided to improve its inventory of its feshfeshe for defensive and offensive and went ahead to built an atomic bomb to insure their survival. Iran is now counting to build a bomb so that it can be delivered by its feshfesheh. That won't happen.

 

[parham79]

The 300 Sukhoi 30 deal was an israelie lie made up by DEKA FILE.Russia dosent even have 300 manafactured Sukhoi 30's let alone sell iran all that. that takes probaly 10 years build all those fighters, train over 700 pilots that also takes atleast 5 to 6 years then there are logistcs like buiding specially suited hangers,tarmacs, starter karts, training personell, maintainance facilities. That was so comical even a 5 year old could see it was an utter lie.It would have been a 15 year plan at he very least. It was so stupid that the sukhoi people laughed it off.

I never said they are a match for the us, i said they have enough fighters to make an israelie attack unsuccessfull.You are probaly mistaken the F7 chinese version with the Mig-21 which iran bought from china(there based at khatami airbase). Iran dosent have any Mig-21's and sepah dosent operate the F-7's.They only fighter they operate is the Sukhoi-25 frogfoot attack aircrafts which are designed for close air support. There stationed at badr arbase in Shiraz. Where do you get this stuff.Also it was moldova where the US got the Mig-29's not iraq. All the functioning iraqi fulcrums were flown to Iran in 1991.

 

[ParanoidBenchwarmer]

The 300 Sukhoi 30 deal was an israelie lie made up by DEKA FILE.Russia dosent even have 300 manafactured Sukhoi 30's let alone sell iran all that. that takes probaly 10 years build all those fighters, train over 700 pilots that also takes atleast 5 to 6 years then there are logistcs like buiding specially suited hangers,tarmacs, starter karts, training personell, maintainance facilities. That was so comical even a 5 year old could see it was an utter lie.It would have been a 15 year plan at he very least. It was so stupid that the sukhoi people laughed it off.

I never said they are a match for the us, i said they have enough fighters to make an israelie attack unsuccessfull.You are probaly mistaken the F7 chinese version with the Mig-21 which iran bought from china(there based at khatami airbase). Iran dosent have any Mig-21's and sepah dosent operate the F-7's.They only fighter they operate is the Sukhoi-25 frogfoot attack aircrafts which are designed for close air support. There stationed at badr arbase in Shiraz. Where do you get this stuff.Also it was moldova where the US got the Mig-29's not iraq. All the functioning iraqi fulcrums were flown to Iran in 1991.

All I am saying they are all farsoudeh and piece of crap. Here is the inventory list:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/airforce-equipment.htm

 

[ParanoidBenchwarmer]

Here is the article on USA recent purchase of 29 Mig 29

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=41172

 

[parham79]

Global security get there information from wikipedia which is a bunch of wild guesses. Iran has 55 Tomcats now. There are atleast 30 in Khatami isfahan and the rest are spreadout in Tehran and Busher. Also Turkey, Israel, Germany,Britan and few other countries still use Phantom F4-E and D along with the RF-4 which is a reconn version in their airforces. They have world class fleets does that mean it is a bad fighter?. No. Phantom is a very good multi-role fighter/bomber and all of the ones iran has have been upgraded.They are not bad fighters.

 

[lordofmordor]

If Israel attacks Iran, am I right to assume Iran will not know of it until over the Iranian air space? Does Iranian satelites able to detect that? Would Russia or China and let Iran know?

And once over the airspace, I assume they will attack the airfields first? Or do you think they will bomb and run? I assume they will need repeated hits right, which would imply they have to destroy the fighter jets or runways first?

At the sametime, I assume without US awacs help, Israelis would have some of their own? Although, once US knows Israel is attacking, I assume the least they would do, even if they dont support it, give the awacs support?

 

[parham79]

Unless israel uses tomhawk missiles to blowout irans EW radars, power grids which might need a EMP nuke explosion and destroy all of irans tctical fighter bases runways into smitherins, no they cant. iF THE US HELPS THEM AND ALOWS THEM THE OPPORTNITY BY DOING THE DESTROYING OF THE FIGHTER BASES VIA THEIR NAVY AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE, then i dont see how they will be undetected untill they'v left iran's airspace. Only the United States has the capeability to come in, destroy all the GCI and EW radars, runways, then have big enough Bunker busters like the 30,000 pound monster to be able to penetrate fordo which even the americans say requiers atleast 3 of those to put it out of business.No israelie fighter bomber can carry such a massive ordanance. The biggest bunker buster the israelies have is a 5,000 pound one which will barely make a scratch on fordo.

Be realistc, the've got to hit targets thousends of kilometers apart from eachother while at the sametime suppressing all the interceptors that will be scrambled.Each strike packiage will have a group of fighters which are called escorts.. Their job is to supress the scrambled fighters or any threat to the bombers. They will obviously be the formation doing the dog fighting, however they cant afford lose many of their bomber fleet because if iran knocks out even a small percentage of their planes, their mission will be deemed a failure because they wont have enough ordanances to destroy all their pre-designaed tagets.


Not t mention their fighters will be at a disadvantage in a merge because of the heavy load they are carrying which makes their planes sluggish in a dogfight especially against fighters like the fulcrums with amazingly tight turn radius and three tmes the power to weight ratio and the tomcat which in a dogfight can match the israelie F-15's and in BVR(beyond visiual range) will tear them to shreds with it's Phoenix AIM-54.

 

[Flint]

They have done all that with Syria multiple times. How much better IR's air force is?

 

[parham79]

They have done all that with Syria multiple times. How much better IR's air force is?

Syria is like 5 mnutes away from israel. iran is 2 thousend kilometers away with atleast few unfriendly countries which will not allow the israeie airforce to conduct any raid using their airspace as an ingress route. Not to mention in Iran there are tens of targets all spread out all over the country with harden shelters and in fordos case no israelie bunker buter can penetrate it. In syria there was poorly defended and shelterd target. It's apples and oranges. BTW, Iran's airforce is light years ahead of syria in equippment and training.

 

[ParanoidBenchwarmer]

If Israel attacks Iran, am I right to assume Iran will not know of it until over the Iranian air space? Does Iranian satelites able to detect that? Would Russia or China and let Iran know?

And once over the airspace, I assume they will attack the airfields first? Or do you think they will bomb and run? I assume they will need repeated hits right, which would imply they have to destroy the fighter jets or runways first?

At the sametime, I assume without US awacs help, Israelis would have some of their own? Although, once US knows Israel is attacking, I assume the least they would do, even if they dont support it, give the awacs support?

The attack is going to be massive and quick. Stealth bombers and fighters such as F22 will be used along with hundreds of tomahawks missiles to finish off Iran airbasis and nclear facilities.What Israel will do instead is they will probably invade southern Lebanon with massive strikes and gorund forces at the same time. The One two punch will finish Iran's military and its proxy the Hezbolah in South Lebanon . Syria is already finished therefore they cant do a thing. It will be very quick.

 

[Flint]

Syria is like 5 mnutes away from israel. iran is 2 thousend kilometers away with atleast few unfriendly countries which will not allow the israeie airforce to conduct any raid using their airspace as an ingress route. Not to mention in Iran there are tens of targets all spread out all over the country with harden shelters and in fordos case no israelie bunker buter can penetrate it. In syria there was poorly defended and shelterd target. It's apples and oranges. BTW, Iran's airforce is light years ahead of syria in equippment and training.

Problem is all of us are thinking inside the box. Who says the only way to attack deep underground facilities is by massive ordinances flown by heavy bombers from half way across the world. Elephant is a huge animal but it goes down by a projectile only a few ounces.