Is Assad at the verge and what does his fall mean for Iran?!

[Bi-honar]

A lot of the destruction is done by the rebels. It's not like the rebels only have AK47s to fight Assad's tanks! At this point, they have more bombs, artillery shells and RPGs than Assad's army probably. Most rebels I have seen in videos (which are not YouTube videos and nothing that can easily be posted here) is accompanied by a squad of RPG holding, ammo carrying, highly equipped staff.

There are countless videos of Rebels using people's nicely furnished homes as RPG-firing hide-outs. There are videos of rebels forcing people out of their homes to use their windows as sniping positions. Why do you think the tanks fire on civilian buildings? Because the rebels are firing RPGs and sniping from them.

Here's how I look at it:

If the rebels showed any (I mean any) mercy on the captured army soldiers, I would definitely be rooting for them. What I see over and over is rebels executing whoever they capture without hesitation. That makes me hate them. Regardless of how many people Assad has killed, the rebels are worse.

Keep in mind, Assad's soldiers are not ideological. The rebels are Islamic freaks. Given that both sides are ruthless killers, I would still have to take Assad's side because at least he's a secular guy. I know all too well what will transpire of these rebels gaining authority. Hell, there are videos that prove my point.

Come on bro. They have no "bombs" at all. Al Nusra carried out a few terrorist attacks on Damascus all of which have been well documented with the fatalities well known. I'm talking bombs you drop indiscriminately from planes like the Iraqis were doing to Tehran. They don't have any missiles and they don't have any heavy artillery like Katyusha rockets - only mortar rounds (khompareh) and yes they now have lots of RPG's. The damage you see is not caused by mortar rounds, a few of which dropped on Damascus and caused minimal damage - even the one on the university cafeteria caused minimal physical damage if you look for the pictures and videos, only casualties because people were gathered in an open space.

The levelled out neighbourhoods you see are the result of indiscriminate bombings, scud attacks, heavy artillery and tank shelling. All that aside, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has tracked the majority of casualties by type and location and how they were caused. If you want to believe all that damage is caused by mortar rounds, that all the massacres didn't happen, that all the prisoners in Assad's prisons aren't there and those executed are taking a trip, that all the reputable news organizations have just made up stuff, that the Syrian Observatory is working for Saudi Arabia, and base your entire assessment on a few videos because of you love the secular Assad, that's your prerogative.

But you may as well believe aliens are attacking us because you have seen videos of UFO's! And I suppose Hitler, Saddam, Milosevic and Ghaddafi were all good secular guys, none of whom carried out the atrocities they are alleged to have carried out and all were subject to the same smear campaign that's being waged by Western governments and media outlets against the good secular guys?!

 

[Bi-honar]

So Bush created Al-ghaedeh,.....New World Ordder is a Hoax and..............ISlamists are great!! Allaho Akbar......

No, Obama created Al-ghaedeh... there is a "new world order" that's really really different than the "old world order" that the strong shall lead and the weak shall follow... And you're the "moderate muslim" so I guess it would make sense that you support all the Islamist players that stand to gain from Assad staying in power!

I ask all of you again: Is there ANY time or any ciircumstance we as Iranians should be supporting a Saudi led al-qada driven movement anywhere? What if they attack Iran say through Khouzestan - would you support them? Yes or NO?

Is is just me Flint, or everything we wrote and keep writing goes over Massi's head?!

 

[Bache Tehroon]

base your entire assessment on a few videos because of you love the secular Assad

It's this tone of ridicule and exaggeration that derails threads. I don't fall for them, but people like Chinaski do. Just sayin'...

 

[masoudA]

Is is just me Flint, or everything we wrote and keep writing goes over Massi's head?!

buddy it's BS like this that I call spin - I asked a very simple yes/No question - apparantly turned you into a funny clown!!

 

[Bi-honar]

There is certainly a logic in seeing it that way but calling them winners is a bit of stretch. If they had really won in Iraq you could see it. You would see them in power, you would see them marching their armies up and down the main street, you would see them flying on private planes to capitals. That's what they wanted. That's what Sadr and his army wanted. They might be in a camp here and there but that is not what they had in mind. And I am not sure what "pouring" across the border means? They do not have the logistics, the supply routes, the infrastructure because they have no country.

Now, for a second lets speculate what would the region look like if Saddam was left in power. Do you have any doubt that by now he would have struck an alliance with the IR? They were almost there. They had diplomatic relations, there were travels etc. They had so much in common in fighting the US. You'd be looking at a patch of terrorist states from Beirut to Damascus to Tehran. Interestingly, you are arguing for the removal of Assad to weaken IR. I argue that the removal of Saddam did just that because 2003 was not 1980. They were friends. Iran and Iraq with their oil money , armies and population would be a powerhouse in the middle east. Throw in Syria and you got yourself a might brew.

I guess we define winning a little differently, not that your definition is not valid. I understand where you're coming from. You define winning as having achieved the eventual goal. I define winning as having taken a step toward that eventual goal. With your definition, they certainly did not win. With my definition we need historical context and only time will tell. Falling back on clichés, I believe they won the battle, but not the war - so we do agree on that last part that they didn't win the war.

And on the 2nd paragraph, I hesitate to speculate at this point. But I will say this. We most likely would have had another major, long and bloody ME war that wouldn't have been limited to an internal conflict in Iraq. And aside from that, many more would have died in Saddam's hands. that's pretty much an extrapolation based on the past, rather than pure speculation.

 

[masoudA]

Here is what China said before he was banned...........I think he was spot on - based on what I read from BH on this thread.

BH now exactly knows whats going on an is still supporting terrorists because those terrorists are supported by the west. Thats enough of a reason for that **** to get on the bandwagon. Now if the West would support Assad and fight those terrorists (which would actually be the case in a healthy and careing world), the guy would be on the Assad bandwagon because he blindly support whatever the west tells him is right.

 

[Bi-honar]

It's this tone of ridicule and exaggeration that derails threads. I don't fall for them, but people like Chinaski do. Just sayin'...

What ridicule and exaggeration bro? Go back and read your post and tell me that your entire assessment was not based on videos that you've seen. And that you like Assad because he's secular. I simply repeated what you said. If it sounded ridiculous when I said it, I apologize.

I could have found your original post equally condescending dismissing my opinion and the 1000's of articles that I have read, 100's of videos I have seen and hundreds of hours of research on every type of weapon used in the conflict, because of my hatred of Assad. Couldn't I? Maybe you can break down the difference between the two for me.

 

[Bi-honar]

LMFAO. Are you sure I'm the "funny clown"?!

Here is what China said before he was banned...........I think he was spot on - based on what I read from BH on this thread. "BH now exactly knows whats going on an is still supporting terrorists because those terrorists are supported by the west."

I really didn't know we had to break this down to 3+1=4 to get such a simple point across. And I bet you it's still gonna go over Ban Ban's head, not to mention "Bozorg 4Payans" and we're going to hear the statement "you support Islamist terrorists" at least another two dozen times in this thread from these same people who cheer for Islamist Terrorists (i.e. Hezbollah and IRGC) fighting alongside Assad!!!

 

[Flint]

You are talking as if Saddam of 2003 was the Saddam of 1980 in terms of power and wealth.

This is our point of departure. You are saying Saddam was weakened Iraq was even weaker. I don't disagree with that but you are assuming that status quo would remain. I am saying there was a much greater chance that Iraq would rebuild. Sanctions were crumbling and Iraq was selling loads of oil. At a minimum, you had to wonder and worry about him. Nobody is worried about Maliki to go after nuclear bomb, pay suicide bombers or invade another country. What Iraq war did was that it removed Iraq as a player and gang of bad guys. Believe me, they would have found a way to get together.

As for Exxon, if you ask me they are not getting enough contracts. After all this, I would have negotiated no bid contracts for American companies for 10 years. Oh BTW, next time someone wants the US military, like right now, they better pay up first or nobody is going.

 

[Flint]

I ask all of you again: Is there ANY time or any ciircumstance we as Iranians should be supporting a Saudi led al-qada driven movement anywhere? What if they attack Iran say through Khouzestan - would you support them? Yes or NO?

So I should answer your question before you answer mine? Do you remember what my question was?

 

[Bache Tehroon]

As for Exxon, if you ask me they are not getting enough contracts. After all this, I would have negotiated no bid contracts for American companies for 10 years. Oh BTW, next time someone wants the US military, like right now, they better pay up first or nobody is going.

Oh they will be going and no one other than the US taxpayer will be paying. That's just how it works.

All of Iraq's oil is now operated by the usual suspects (7 sisters) big oil corps. There's no need for them to stamp their name on every barrel. How do you think the US is able to pursue other nations into sanctioning Iran's oil? They give them the same oil from the other side of the border.

What does the average American gain as a result? NOTHING. That's the problem. Honestly, if invading Iraq made Americans richer, it could at least be justified as a nationalistic venture with big economical gains (sort of like true imperialism). The problem is, Americans pay with their sons, daughters and money and get ideological cunts like those two Boston brothers in return. Iraqis pay heavily with their lives and livelihoods and at the end of it they get car bombs, foreign invasion and instability.

Who is the winner here?

 

[General Parsaian]

اکثریت مردم سوریه طرفدار بشار اسد هستند
باور کنید اگر اینطور نبود با این همه فشارهایی که روی رژیم سوریه و اسد است تا الان سقوط کرده بود
هزاران نفر از کشورهای دیگر از طریق مرز ترکیه و اردن و لبنان به مخالفان اسد پیوسته اند همه هم تا دندان مسلح
چرا رژیم سقوط نکرده ؟
یعنی فکر میکند اینهایی که جگر مرده را می خورند اگر طرفدار داشتند و از اکثریت بر خوردار بودند نمی توانستند در دمشق تظاهرات چند صد هزار نفری به راه بیاندازند
و کار اسد را تمام کنند
اینها در اقلیت هستند و تنها چیزی که باعث شده هنوز رمقی داشته باشند ملیاردهای قطر و عربستان و کمک های ترکیه و امریکا و اردن
و هزاران تروریستی هستند که از عربستان و پاکستان گرفته تا تونس و لیبی به سوریه امده اند و از انها دفاع میکنند
اسد ادم خوبی نیست
رژیم بعث سوریه دست کمی از صدام ندارد
ولی وقایع نشان داده که این رژیم در برابر این ادم خواران مثل یک فرشته است
اینها صدها مسیحی را فقط و فقط بخاطر اینکه مسیحی هستند کشتند
صدها نفر فقط و فقط بخاطر اینکه شیعه یا علوی یا دروز هستند کشتند
حتی از اخوندهای سنی هم نگذشتند
حتی از مردکگان و قبرها هم نگذشتند و قبر حجر ابن عدی که مخالف معاویه این ابی سفیان بود را خراب کردند و استخوندهای یک مرده که هزار و دویست سال پیش مرده را در اوردند
از مجسمه ابوالعلا المعری یک فقط یک شاعر مثل حافط و سعدی بود نگذشتند و انرا خراب کردند
حتی از خانوادهایی که به انها پناه داده بودند و طرفدار انها بودند نگذشتند
قبل از عقب نشینی انها را قتل عام کردند و فیلم گرفتند تا بگویند رژیم سوریه این کار را کرده که بعد گندش در امد
خوب رژیم اسد خونخوار است ولی همانطور که گفتم دیگر با مرده کاری ندارد
بابا هزار و دویست سال پیش مرده استخوانهایش را از قبرش در اوردند و نابود کردند
سربازه مرده شکمش را پاره میکنند و می خورند
مجسمه شاعری را که کاری به خیر و شر کسی نداشته منفجر میکنند
کشیشان مسیحی را می کشند سنی را می کشند علوی و شیعه و دروز را میکشند
دانشگاه را با کاتیوشا می زنند و دها دانشجو را میکشند
فکر نکنم کسی از این حیوانات که بلانسبت حیوان دفاع کند مگر حیوانی مثل خودشان

 

[byebyenow]

Well, War never makes anybody rich except Military industry which are companies who make arsenals and such... Also Oil industry as many western oil companies weren't able to get contracts before Saddam now they can, however they mostly are interested in Canada at the moment. Also some other corporation industries such as Pharmaceutical and ect...
Guns such as Steyr AUG and FS2000 are used by rebels in Syria and Libya, these are expensive rifles which is provided by American and their allies and their Arab League. Assad gets his guns from Iran and Russia all this money provided by these governments are people's tax money to destroy and murder a country like Syria. This has to be stopped by people across the globe and that is the only solution to deal with such a problem.
Lets be real USA spend on their Military and their National security more than any other country on Earth, the sums of USA military is more than the rest of the world combined. It costs the governments billions and billions of dollars on such wars like war on terror and war on drugs, wars that are absolutely rubbish and only costs the American their money and wealth and their lives, let's not forget the lives lost in Middle East, Africa, and Latino America in these wars. They keep taking people's benefits and spend more on military and national security. Banks are stealing money but "they are too big to fail", Banks and Military industry are mobs ruling this country and politician are their brown noses who protect these investors from anything.
People needs to wake up, this country since the world war ll is depended on wars, every decade they have to have a war; firstly because its a distraction for the real problems in the economy, second it provide profits for some rich investors, third if they win they can manipulate the region policies. Only people pay the price for this wars not those assholes in power. These religious, national, ethnics, race, drugs, terror wars are all fake wars the real war should be the class war.

 

[IEI]

Well, War never makes anybody rich except Military industry which are companies who make arsenals and such... Also Oil industry as many western oil companies weren't able to get contracts before Saddam now they can, however they mostly are interested in Canada at the moment. Also some other corporation industries such as Pharmaceutical and ect...
Guns such as Steyr AUG and FS2000 are used by rebels in Syria and Libya, these are expensive rifles which is provided by American and their allies and their Arab League. Assad gets his guns from Iran and Russia all this money provided by these governments are people's tax money to destroy and murder a country like Syria. This has to be stopped by people across the globe and that is the only solution to deal with such a problem.
Lets be real USA spend on their Military and their National security more than any other country on Earth, the sums of USA military is more than the rest of the world combined. It costs the governments billions and billions of dollars on such wars like war on terror and war on drugs, wars that are absolutely rubbish and only costs the American their money and wealth and their lives, let's not forget the lives lost in Middle East, Africa, and Latino America in these wars. They keep taking people's benefits and spend more on military and national security. Banks are stealing money but "they are too big to fail", Banks and Military industry are mobs ruling this country and politician are their brown noses who protect these investors from anything.
People needs to wake up, this country since the world war ll is depended on wars, every decade they have to have a war; firstly because its a distraction for the real problems in the economy, second it provide profits for some rich investors, third if they win they can manipulate the region policies. Only people pay the price for this wars not those asshole in power. This religious, national, drugs, terror wars are all fake wars the real war should be the class war.

Great one.
I believe that US and the western countries are enjoying the chaos in Syria. On one side they are selling their weapons and on the other side they have made Syria a very weak power in the middle east. what is better for them ? Democracy and all of those things are nothing more than propaganda. It is really interesting that Syria is not on the coverage of any news agency in the western countries, including BBC.

 

[Flint]

Well, War never makes anybody rich except Military industry which are companies who make arsenals and such... Also Oil industry as many western oil companies weren't able to get contracts before Saddam now they can,

Oil will be sold no matter who is in power. Look at Iran, the leader of anti-west and anti so called imperialism. They are begging to sell their oil. No need to invade any country to buy oil. Looks like you have just discovered 60s rhetoric. Oh, that "military industrial complex", as a business they are no bigger or more profitable than anything else. Kellog sells more cereal.

 

[Motori]

Who is the winner here?

Actually No one!!

There is not or has never been any winner at the end of any war. Only one side loose less than the other and then called a victory. Just look at the consequence of Iran-iraq war.

 

[Bi-honar]

You guys may want to readdress your assessment about who is benefiting from arms sales to Syria:

Russia Sends More Advanced Missiles to Aid Assad in Syria

 

[byebyenow]

Oil will be sold no matter who is in power. Look at Iran, the leader of anti-west and anti so called imperialism. They are begging to sell their oil. No need to invade any country to buy oil. Looks like you have just discovered 60s rhetoric. Oh, that "military industrial complex", as a business they are no bigger or more profitable than anything else. Kellog sells more cereal.

That's right Iran and Chevron have great relationship. Just look at how many contracts got done after Iraq war.
lol at "60s rhetoric", yeah it actually has got worse since Vietnam war, what we are spending on our military and national security is enough to buy all cereal companies, activists from 60s and 70s hasn't disappeared but actually been active, people like Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn for example been saying this since 60s and actually they think it has got worse for many good reasons! It's not only guns and ammo but its also include paychecks and high technology which only military can effort and ect...
George Bush and Dick Chaney are war criminals and nothing has been done to bring those assholes to justice, same to Obama and his criminal drone attacks. Drones that are millions of dollars and it's our tax money.

 

[Bi-honar]

Or who the oil contracts in Iraq are going to:

Iraqi oil: Once seen as U.S. boon, now it’s mostly China’s

 

[Bi-honar]

Or who is arming the rebels...

Qatar bankrolls Syrian revolt with cash and arms