is it the "royal we" that's used in the quran?

[a123321r]

sorry.. i'm a bit (understatement.. ) weird.. it's half 4.. i was in bed.. (didn't go out last night! lol) and was thinking about something I thought I understood and then i suddenly thought about the use of "we" in quran and bible etc.. strangely for me I had never thought about the contradiction in its use before... now christians have this idea it could be trinity etc.. but pretty much anyone explaining it for the quran seems to say it's the use of the "royal" we.. although personally i would find that a bit strange not least as it's not even used in a consistent manner?

I was wondering does anyone else have a different understanding of why the plural term is used when god refers to himself in the quran? i know.. it's just not something u ask at this time.. (or ask .. full stop!) .. but any ideas is appreciated!

 

[Bache Tehroon]

You see it goes back to your elementary school days.

Whenever you did something great, you'd always say "Man kardam"

Whenever you fucked up or you weren't sure of the outcome of your doing, you'd say "AGHA MA NABOODIM"

That's the "We" in Quran. God just had a feeling this (Islam) thing was not going to work and said "Ma kardim" so it would seem like the blame was to be shared among the heavenly people.

 

[a123321r]

lol! not a bad explanation at all! tho probably not what i was looking for!

 

[Bijan]

interesting question abouzar.. I believe it is because the genius who wrote it at times forgot that they were supposed to talk on God's behalf ;-)

 

[raminio05]

what do you mean by "royal" in this context Abouzar jaan?

 

[Niloufar]

interesting question abouzar.. I believe it is because the genius who wrote it at times forgot that they were supposed to talk on God's behalf ;-)

looool!!haha good one!

 

[General Parsaian]

sorry.. i'm a bit (understatement.. ) weird.. it's half 4.. i was in bed.. (didn't go out last night! lol) and was thinking about something I thought I understood and then i suddenly thought about the use of "we" in quran and bible etc.. strangely for me I had never thought about the contradiction in its use before... now christians have this idea it could be trinity etc.. but pretty much anyone explaining it for the quran seems to say it's the use of the "royal" we.. although personally i would find that a bit strange not least as it's not even used in a consistent manner?

I was wondering does anyone else have a different understanding of why the plural term is used when god refers to himself in the quran? i know.. it's just not something u ask at this time.. (or ask .. full stop!) .. but any ideas is appreciated!

جناب ابوذر
ضمائر که خداوند در قران موضوعی را بیان می کند مفرد و جمع است
ضمیر مفرد در جایی بکار برده شده که ذات خداوند مطرح بوده مانند
انی انا الله رب العالمین : من الله خداوند جهان هستم
سوره القصص ایه 30
قال لا تخافا اننی معکما اسمع و اری: پروردگار گفت نترسید من با شما هستم همه چیز را می بینم و می شنونم
طه ایه 45
در این سوره یعنی طه ضمیر مفرد زیاد بکار برده شده زیرا خداوند مستقیما با موسی سخن می گوید
یعنی نه بواسطه جبرائیل یا میکائیل یا فرشتگان دیگری
ضمیر فردی در انجا بکار برده شده که فعل فقط به خداوند ربط دارد
ولی ضمیر جمع در مواقعی بکار برده شده که مثلا ملک یا ملائکه ای یا مومن یا شخصی در ان کار ارتباطی مستقیم یا غیر مستقیم داشته است
مانند
انا نحن نزلنا علیک القران تنزیلا : ما قران را بر تو فرود اوردیم
سوره الانسان ایه 22
انا نحن نزلنا الذکر و انا له لحافطون : ما قران را نازل کردیم و ما انرا حفظ خواهیم کرد
سوره الحجر ایه 9
در اینجا ضمیر جمع است چون نزول قران به فرمان خداوند و بوسیله جبرئیل بر محمد ص نازل شده جمع امده است
یا مثلا انجایی که خداوند به ملائکه می فرماید به ملائکه گفتم که مومنین را یاری دهید و در ایه دیگر یاری دهند جمع است یعنی خداوند و ملائکه که می فرماید ما شما را یاری می دهیم
ولی این ضمیر جمع در هیچ جای قران با وحدانیت ذات الهی مغایرتی ندارد

متشکرم

 

[deerouz]

General jan, How about this verse then:

و نرید ان نمن علی الذین استضعفوا فی الارض و نجعلهم ائمه و نجعلهم الوارثین

Based on your explanation, does it mean that the God and the angels got together in an emergency meeting to decide who would inherit the earth, and at the end they made a collective decision? Like the خرد جمعی in IFF?

 

[General Parsaian]

General jan, How about this verse then:

و نرید ان نمن علی الذین استضعفوا فی الارض و نجعلهم ائمه و نجعلهم الوارثین

Based on your explanation, does it mean that the God and the angels got together in an emergency meeting to decide who would inherit the earth, and at the end they made a collective decision? Like the خرد جمعی in IFF?

جناب دیروز
همانطور که خدمتتان عرض کردم ضمیر فردی فقط در مورد عبادت خشوع اطاعت و ارتباط مستقیم امده
مانند : من را بپرستید / از من اطاعت کنید / مرا عبادت کنید / من خدای تو هستم
ولی در مورد بقیه جمع امده
چنانکه شما در ایه بالا فر موردید وقتی خداوند می گوید نرید یعنی می خواهیم نه تنها شامل فرشتگان بلکه مومنین نیز می شود
زیرا مومن هم سعی می کند که مستضعفین را در زمین یاری دهد و انها را بر غیر مومنین پیروز گرداند

همانطور که گفتم هیچ مغایرتی با وحدانیت خداوند ندارد

متشکرم

 

[Bache Tehroon]

all this discussion to get to what I said earlier.

 

[lordofmordor]

Interesting observation. Now, who can we talk to in order to figure out what god meant. Unfortunately, he has been missing for 1400 years since he lost communication with men.

 

[Bache Tehroon]

Interesting observation. Now, who can we talk to in order to figure out what god meant. Unfortunately, he has been missing for 1400 years since he lost communication with men.

Based on Islamic facts he's no longer interested in communicating with humans via prophets as all prophet-related tasks have been outsourced to another universe with cheaper labor rates.

The last remaining resource is Emam Zaman who is only a temporary contractor and is taking his sweet ass time returning from maternity or eternity leave. The HR headquarters at heaven are not very impressed with his behavior but are afraid of losing the last remaining position to outsourcing.

 

[Khorus]

LOL at BT's replies. Honestly, the way I interpret it, is Mohammad's attempt to elevate himself closer to God, sort of making himself a partner. I think the "We" is meant to be God and Mohammad as a team. This is just my way of looking at it, so I could be mistaken.

 

[Bache Tehroon]

LOL at BT's replies. Honestly, the way I interpret it, is Mohammad's attempt to elevate himself closer to God, sort of making himself a partner. I think the "We" is meant to be God and Mohammad as a team. This is just my way of looking at it, so I could be mistaken.

Chakerim aziz(the evil "WE" again!)

The only problem I see with your interpretation is that Mohammad was illiterate. They say he magically learned to read and write after he heard the following verse:

اقرا باسم ربک الذی خلق


I don't think he had the guts to actually write things on his own. I actually think those verses were really transmitted to him by God himself, but the whole outsourcing thing had reduced God's confidence in the final product. Afterall what is a product without technical support? If he had made it open-source like he did with the Bible, it would've been one thing, but he licensed the product, froze the code and sold it with no support contract.

Shi'te moslems came up with their own 3rd party support contracts through the 12 Imams, but the contracts kept expiring one after another with no real progress on the outstanding bugs. Emam Zaman ham ke hamaro pichoond raft vacation.

Khomeini tried to get a business going by offering a new support contract, but the only part of the code he had any knowledge about was "how to enter the toilet", "how to have sex with animals" and "how to masturbate". He had some success with escalations of that nature, but the rest remain unanswered.

The "WE" in Quran is nothing but a smart attempt at redirecting support calls to other parties without involving the coder.

 

[PJ]

Chakerim aziz(the evil "WE" again!)

The only problem I see with your interpretation is that Mohammad was illiterate. They say he magically learned to read and write after he heard the following verse:

اقرا باسم ربک الذی خلق


I don't think he had the guts to actually write things on his own. I actually think those verses were really transmitted to him by God himself, but the whole outsourcing thing had reduced God's confidence in the final product. Afterall what is a product without technical support? If he had made it open-source like he did with the Bible, it would've been one thing, but he licensed the product, froze the code and sold it with no support contract.

Shi'te moslems came up with their own 3rd party support contracts through the 12 Imams, but the contracts kept expiring one after another with no real progress on the outstanding bugs. Emam Zaman ham ke hamaro pichoond raft vacation.

Khomeini tried to get a business going by offering a new support contract, but the only part of the code he had any knowledge about was "how to enter the toilet", "how to have sex with animals" and "how to masturbate". He had some success with escalations of that nature, but the rest remain unanswered.

The "WE" in Quran is nothing but a smart attempt at redirecting support calls to other parties without involving the coder.

BT jan, I think Khomeini also had a long distance crush on his aunt, and he was an expert in finding ways to connect to her. If you know what I mean.

 

[deerouz]

I don't think he had the guts to actually write things on his own. I actually think those verses were really transmitted to him by God himself, but the whole outsourcing thing had reduced God's confidence in the final product. Afterall what is a product without technical support? If he had made it open-source like he did with the Bible, it would've been one thing, but he licensed the product, froze the code and sold it with no support contract.

LOL that's a very smart way of putting all of this in perspective!