It is okay to make fun of Iran with....

[Shahin2000]

cartoon drawings, but god forbid if you make any gestures resembling Nazi.... Typical double standards

If they are sensitive about their history, well we are very sensitive for being accused as terrorists... check the article below, from bigsoccer.com


http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006060530,00.html

 

[Messi19]

their land their rules.

 

[lordofmordor]

It is very clear. Gerrmans are not Nazis anymore. They paid a heavy price for it and are now are one of the forefront economic powers in the west. They dont want to remind others of what they did. That makes sense.

Iran is currently a supporter of terrorism against it own people, sponsor of terrorists in Lebanon and Palastine, sponsor of terrorism for last 27 years in western countries assisinating Iranians, ....

Instead of screaming at our own government and trying to stop them you are screaming at others saying we are not terrorist, dont call us terrorist. We call for destruction of Israel and we say we are not terrorists.

Why is it so hard to see that?

 

[Shahin2000]

Obviously you did not get my message.. I was concentrating on the sensitivity issue... I know they are not Nazis any more and that is an area that germans are very sensitive about. Just like we are very sensitive about being labeled as terrorists... At least the germans should be smart enough not to mix our government with our people.

 

[Messi19]

At least the germans should be smart enough not to mix our government with our people.

you mean the same people that Dr. Ashtar keep posting the pics in the 22 Bahman march? or the ones that attack the European embessies? or donkies in the middle of the streets walking with animals that are wrapped in flags? I am confused.

 

[lordofmordor]

It would be like during the Nazi time not calling Germans Nazis becasue it would offend them. It is the action of one government that represents what one is doing and who they are. A government is suppose to present its people.

Now if a people of a nation dont have the backbone to overthrow their governments and rather live under dictatorship than die for freedom, that is just what they get. You cannot tell me that a sheep gets the same respect as a wolf or a lion.

 

[deerouz]

Obviously you did not get my message.. I was concentrating on the sensitivity issue... I know they are not Nazis any more and that is an area that germans are very sensitive about. Just like we are very sensitive about being labeled as terrorists... At least the germans should be smart enough not to mix our government with our people.

I understand your point, but over the past few months, Iranian newspapers have been running ads for recruiting suicide bombers, and thousands have signed up . Pictures of their demonstrations are shown repeatedly around the world. Forgive Germans for not knowing that we Iranians are sensitive about being labeled as terrorists. What we broadcast from our country suggests otherwise.

 

[Shahin2000]

It would be like during the Nazi time not calling Germans Nazis becasue it would offend them. It is the action of one government that represents what one is doing and who they are. A government is suppose to present its people.

Now if a people of a nation dont have the backbone to overthrow their governments and rather live under dictatorship than die for freedom, that is just what they get. You cannot tell me that a sheep gets the same respect as a wolf or a lion.

So I am guessing you have no problem with the cartoon pictures in the german paper.

 

[Shahin2000]

I understand your point, but over the past few months, Iranian newspapers have been running ads for recruiting suicide bombers, and thousands have signed up . Pictures of their demonstrations are shown repeatedly around the world. Forgive Germans for not knowing that we Iranians are sensitive about being labeled as terrorists. What we broadcast from our country suggests otherwise.

Good point deeruz jaan, but you have to realize which newspapers were running such ads? The ones backed by the government or the more liberal types?

 

[deerouz]

Good point deeruz jaan, but you have to realize which newspapers were running such ads? The ones backed by the government or the more liberal types?

I do realize it, but how do you prove it to Germans? They see the demonstrations in Tehran, the embassy burnings, the suicide lists, and they have no way of knowing if the Iranian nation also supports these actions or not.

I am very troubled by the cartoon, but let's put the blame where it belongs. Our country has been rightly depicted in the world as a terrorist-supporting country because of the actions of the president and government who fuel this fire even more everyday.

 

[lordofmordor]

The cartoon does not bother me, after all that is why it is called a cartoon. It is suppose to be funny and a the sametime represent what the drawer sees. And as Deerouz post nicely mentioned that is what westerners see of Iran right now.

Am I upset about the cartoon? Not 1/1000,000 times as I am upset about what is happening in Iran and how we gave the country away to these guys and how we cannot get it back. That is where I like to put my concentration. All these other sidetracks such as the cartoon just takes attention away from IR and makes them stronger.

So, in another word, no, the cartoon does not bother me. Lets take responsibilty for our government actions and stop blaming westerners and others. That is the only way we will realize that we created the problem and we can fix it.

 

[Old-Faraz]

I understand your point, but over the past few months, Iranian newspapers have been running ads for recruiting suicide bombers, and thousands have signed up . Pictures of their demonstrations are shown repeatedly around the world. Forgive Germans for not knowing that we Iranians are sensitive about being labeled as terrorists. What we broadcast from our country suggests otherwise.

Then I guess one could argue that making fun of the Germans Nazi past (and you do know it is a comedy series "faulty towers" they are referring to) is fair game. If the only test is some resemblance to the truth, then they should have no problem with some English fans making jokes about their past. It is true is it not?

The point Shahin is making though is an important point. It is the ultimate hypocrisy to ban references to some topics, while labeling a whole population (yes TM belongs to the people) as terrorist is considered ok and in good humor.

Nothing anybody can do about what the Germans allow or disallow, but recognizing hypocrisy and calling it exactly that, is always beneficial.

 

[deerouz]

Faraz jan,

Germans were indeed nazis in the past, but not any more (at least the majority). During Nazi rule, it would have been quite fair to depict Germans as Nazis. Their history is still being brought up everywhere and they have to live with its consequence, but at least Hitler is not the picture of today's Germany.

Same cannot be said about Iran.

 

[lordofmordor]

Are we being hypocrits here? We know how much we hate the IR. We know how brutal AN and Pasdaran, Basijisa and Akhoonds are. I dont think any of us doubt that or the fact that Iran support terrorism, even against its own people by the mean of torture.

Why is it that anytime a foreigner draws something against the Iranians we go crazy. Whether Iranians like it or not, IR is their government and represents them.

People of germany and other western nations are very very very tolerant of iranians. If the situation was the other way around, would we have been tolerant like them seeing Iranians in Iran act like animals and threatenting the western countries with destruction and burning their flags. How would Iranians or arabs act if their flags were being burned in the western countries. We have to be reasonable.

 

[Shahin2000]

Are we being hypocrits here? We know how much we hate the IR. We know how brutal AN and Pasdaran, Basijisa and Akhoonds are. I dont think any of us doubt that or the fact that Iran support terrorism, even against its own people by the mean of torture.

Why is it that anytime a foreigner draws something against the Iranians we go crazy. Whether Iranians like it or not, IR is their government and represents them.

People of germany and other western nations are very very very tolerant of iranians. If the situation was the other way around, would we have been tolerant like them seeing Iranians in Iran act like animals and threatenting the western countries with destruction and burning their flags. How would Iranians or arabs act if their flags were being burned in the western countries. We have to be reasonable.

First of all, I dont think we can compare the two situations. In order to view issues from a German point of view, you have to understand and feel what they feel. At least for the past 50 plus years, they have sacrificed and have a "democratic" government. Look at Iran's history and it has never ever been a "demcratic" state. We as a whole do not understand what the term democracy means. Just look at the way some of the "civilized" iranians who have lived more than half their lives in U.S. act when they call those iranian stations in satellite... They start cussing and do all kinds of uncivilized types of behaviours.

Now if we were the germans, that would mean we would understand what democracy means and would know how to tolerate uncivilized behaviours.

 

[lordofmordor]

Shahin, not necessary so. German have had freedom and have lived in democracy for too long and they filter everything they see through that.

The same way that it is hard for a muslim person in the arab countries to understand why the government of Denmark cannot stop a cartoon becasue that is all they know, it is very hard for a person in the democracies to understand what it is like in the dictatorships.

Plus, dont forget, that on TV, the Europeans always see Iranians doing uncivilzed actions and they see Iranian government doing terrrorism. There is no way for a German to know what percentage of the Iranian people support their government. We know it becasue we are Iranians.

 

[Old-Faraz]

Faraz jan,

Germans were indeed nazis in the past, but not any more (at least the majority). During Nazi rule, it would have been quite fair to depict Germans as Nazis. Their history is still being brought up everywhere and they have to live with its consequence, but at least Hitler is not the picture of today's Germany.

Same cannot be said about Iran.

First of all, there are still Nazi and Neo-Nazi and reformed Nazi parties in Germany. They are not in power, but it is not exactly in the past either.

But that is not the point. The point is (one that you have also argued for) once you start allowing somethings to be made fun of and other things remain on a taboo list, then that is called hypocrisy. This is not about what basijis have done in Iran, it is about the Germans taking a holier than thou attitude, while practicing the very essence of hypocrisy.

 

[Shahin2000]

First of all, there are still Nazi and Neo-Nazi and reformed Nazi parties in Germany. They are not in power, but it is not exactly in the past either.

But that is not the point. The point is (one that you have also argued for) once you start allowing somethings to be made fun of and other things remain on a taboo list, then that is called hypocrisy. This is not about what basijis have done in Iran, it is about the Germans taking a holier than thou attitude, while practicing the very essence of hypocrisy.

Very good point Old-Faraz jaan... There are still nazi parties in germany and the KKK groups in u.s. are somewhat based on the nazi movement... The whole idea of hypocracy is what bothers me. And you put it perfectly saying "...Germans taking a holier than thou attitude..."

 

[deerouz]

First of all, there are still Nazi and Neo-Nazi and reformed Nazi parties in Germany. They are not in power, but it is not exactly in the past either.

But that is not the point. The point is (one that you have also argued for) once you start allowing somethings to be made fun of and other things remain on a taboo list, then that is called hypocrisy. This is not about what basijis have done in Iran, it is about the Germans taking a holier than thou attitude, while practicing the very essence of hypocrisy.

Agreed with you on that; there should be no taboo list.

I was just pointing out that a cartoon depicting Germans of today as Nazis will be a lot more unfair than a cartoon depicting Iranians as terrorists. There may be Nazis in Germany, but they are a minority and they are not in power. Terrorists in Iran are in power, and the outside world does not know if they are supported by the majority or minority.

Also if we want to be fair, we should also look at the cartoons of Europeans in Iranian media and compare it with the cartoons of Iranians in German or European papers. The things that you see in Iranian newspapers are much wilder. It would be hypocricy to get mad at Germans without looking at how our media is presenting others.

 

[lordofmordor]

I think it is most beneficial for us to debate and take responsiblity that our country is doing terrorism and acting uncivilzed on the world stage and not blame others for drawing cartoons of the way we are acting.

So what germany has nazi and neo-nazi groups. That is democracy. But their government does not represent them and do not go around the world supporting violence against the jews.

I dont understand why we are even using nazi as an example. It just does not apply.