Destruction of Iran is completed.
Now for the final leg:
transform the people into brainless assembly line idiots for a loaf of bread per day.
Sad slide since the days of 1970s when they were living like Europeans.
I am, pretty sure, to say that it is no more and no less than they deserve. Previous government policies were too advanced for the mentality of muslims. People in Islamic countries NEED to be idiots. It is not a condition to be a fucking moron. It is a state of being. Not being a moron would kill them so they would rather be FUCKING IDIOTIC STONE WORSHIPERS TO EAT OUT OF ARAB/AKHOUND/ISLAMIC ASSHOLES than normal human beings.
Now for the final leg:
transform the people into brainless assembly line idiots for a loaf of bread per day.
Sad slide since the days of 1970s when they were living like Europeans.
I am, pretty sure, to say that it is no more and no less than they deserve. Previous government policies were too advanced for the mentality of muslims. People in Islamic countries NEED to be idiots. It is not a condition to be a fucking moron. It is a state of being. Not being a moron would kill them so they would rather be FUCKING IDIOTIC STONE WORSHIPERS TO EAT OUT OF ARAB/AKHOUND/ISLAMIC ASSHOLES than normal human beings.
there is this amazing invention that came out of the research labs of of DOD called the internet. That is a good tool to satisfy your curiosity.
if you don't really feel like looking into things:
here is a one hint:
1 US Dollar = 6 toomans.
an unskilled brick layer (not a skilled one), like fresh in Tehran from Afghanistan or provinces made 50 - 100 toomans a day.
if he broke his arm in the construction site he could go to any governmental (not private) clinic or hospital and use the accident insurance to have his arm taken care of.
if you are able deal with numbers and relativism and multi thread your thought to bring in all the factors then your research results will help you arrive at that point to understand what is the difference between the Iran of 1970s and IR of 2015.
Iranian ministry of Health had health workers from all over the world coming to Iran to study medicine and practice in Iran, Now we have Iranian doctoers and Engineers driving cabs and working as shop assistants in Europe and North America.
I know Sharif Graduates that pour coffee all day in Canada.
If you get it you will if you don't ... as a wise man once said in a song Ramble on.
if you don't really feel like looking into things:
here is a one hint:
1 US Dollar = 6 toomans.
an unskilled brick layer (not a skilled one), like fresh in Tehran from Afghanistan or provinces made 50 - 100 toomans a day.
if he broke his arm in the construction site he could go to any governmental (not private) clinic or hospital and use the accident insurance to have his arm taken care of.
if you are able deal with numbers and relativism and multi thread your thought to bring in all the factors then your research results will help you arrive at that point to understand what is the difference between the Iran of 1970s and IR of 2015.
Iranian ministry of Health had health workers from all over the world coming to Iran to study medicine and practice in Iran, Now we have Iranian doctoers and Engineers driving cabs and working as shop assistants in Europe and North America.
I know Sharif Graduates that pour coffee all day in Canada.
If you get it you will if you don't ... as a wise man once said in a song Ramble on.
correct.
Iranian people should have made a better deal with themselves and slide all akhounds and their supporters (specially the chosoo internetis) inside sewage.
they also could have done better and turn mosques into public libraries, sports arenas and TOILETS. They are, currently, BRAIN TOILETS, they need to be converted into real toilets. Because after all, you know better than me that this ideology really belongs in the TOILET (SHITTER) of mankind.
Iranian people should have made a better deal with themselves and slide all akhounds and their supporters (specially the chosoo internetis) inside sewage.
they also could have done better and turn mosques into public libraries, sports arenas and TOILETS. They are, currently, BRAIN TOILETS, they need to be converted into real toilets. Because after all, you know better than me that this ideology really belongs in the TOILET (SHITTER) of mankind.
I specifically asked you the question how many Iranians lived with European Standards because the Data I saw from the World Bank via that DOD Research project (called internet) seems to suggest otherwise.
in 1977 (Before Revolution fervor and Strikes) Iranian GDP stood at about 90 Billion in today's Dollars.
Iranian Population was 34 Million in 1977 and Thus GDP PerCapita roughly at $3000 dollars.
in 1977 (Before War with Iran) Iraq's GDP stood at about 35 Billion.
Iraq's Population in 1977 12.5 Million. Thus GDP Per Capita was roughly at $2800 dollars.
In 1977 Turkey's Population GDP Stood at about 80 Billion
Turkey's Population in 1977 Stood at 41 Million. Thus GDP Per capita was roughly at $1950
in 1977 Spain's Economy GDP was at 200 Billion Dollars.
Spain's Population in 1977 was 36 Million. Thus GDP Per Capita was roughly $5500 dollars.
in 1977 United Kingdom's Economy GDP was at 400 Billion Dollars.
UK's Population in 1977 was 56 Million. Thus GDP Per Capita was roughly $7140 dollars.
Also Let's note that majority of Iran's Houses did not have Telephone lines in 1977.
an Overwhelming Majority of Iran's Cities did not have Waste Waster System.
A Great Majority Of Iranians did not have a couch or Breakfast Table.
A Great Majority of Iranians did not own a car.
A Great majority of Iran's Rural Areas did not have Power lines.
The Data Seems to suggest That on a relative basis Iranians living standard was much closer to Europeans than it is today.
But to suggest That Iranians enjoyed a Western Standard of living would a great misstatement of facts!
GDP Data on Adjust basis with Today's Dollar
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/turkey/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iran/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/gdp
Population Data
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL/countries/IR?display=default
in 1977 (Before Revolution fervor and Strikes) Iranian GDP stood at about 90 Billion in today's Dollars.
Iranian Population was 34 Million in 1977 and Thus GDP PerCapita roughly at $3000 dollars.
in 1977 (Before War with Iran) Iraq's GDP stood at about 35 Billion.
Iraq's Population in 1977 12.5 Million. Thus GDP Per Capita was roughly at $2800 dollars.
In 1977 Turkey's Population GDP Stood at about 80 Billion
Turkey's Population in 1977 Stood at 41 Million. Thus GDP Per capita was roughly at $1950
in 1977 Spain's Economy GDP was at 200 Billion Dollars.
Spain's Population in 1977 was 36 Million. Thus GDP Per Capita was roughly $5500 dollars.
in 1977 United Kingdom's Economy GDP was at 400 Billion Dollars.
UK's Population in 1977 was 56 Million. Thus GDP Per Capita was roughly $7140 dollars.
Also Let's note that majority of Iran's Houses did not have Telephone lines in 1977.
an Overwhelming Majority of Iran's Cities did not have Waste Waster System.
A Great Majority Of Iranians did not have a couch or Breakfast Table.
A Great Majority of Iranians did not own a car.
A Great majority of Iran's Rural Areas did not have Power lines.
The Data Seems to suggest That on a relative basis Iranians living standard was much closer to Europeans than it is today.
But to suggest That Iranians enjoyed a Western Standard of living would a great misstatement of facts!
GDP Data on Adjust basis with Today's Dollar
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/turkey/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iran/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iraq/gdp
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/gdp
Population Data
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL/countries/IR?display=default
but in the meanwhile during the reign of shah only religious and extreme left took revolutionary measures against Shah's dictatorship and about 300 people were (iranian lives) were executed as opposed to hundreds of thousands of people killed, tortured and disappeared during the reign of islamic republic.
the tehran university uprising, chain murders, green movement and small massacres such as the ones in Eslam shahr in late 90s and early massacres in Kurdistan, torkaman sahra etc etc ...
how does your statistic explain that ...
please enlighten.
the tehran university uprising, chain murders, green movement and small massacres such as the ones in Eslam shahr in late 90s and early massacres in Kurdistan, torkaman sahra etc etc ...
how does your statistic explain that ...
please enlighten.
You are changing the discussion. The issue was not Whether IRI's regime is worse or Shah's regime was Worse.
The issue was your reference to some myth That Iranians enjoyed a European life Style Before 1979.
That may have been true for a small subset of the population Living Northern Tehran and even a smaller subsets in Mega Cities.
But the Data does not suggest it was the case for an overwhelming majority of Iranians.
The issue was your reference to some myth That Iranians enjoyed a European life Style Before 1979.
That may have been true for a small subset of the population Living Northern Tehran and even a smaller subsets in Mega Cities.
But the Data does not suggest it was the case for an overwhelming majority of Iranians.
no i am not.
you cannnot think in silos when you think of a regime (or government).
Their performance is a collective of their actions towards their population including, human rights, commodities, standard of life, medicare, insurance, education, recreation.
I reiterate that more people in Iran enjoyed a european style of living during the last decade of Shah's dictatorship rather than under any scumbag president or prime minister after the islamic revolution.
and what you mention about northern tehran is TOTAL BULLSHIT.
Even in villages and small size towns (aside from the ones that got ruined as a result of land reforms) people enjoyed a more secure and safe standard of life.
If the average income was lower by 200 % the prices of commodities were lower by 500 %.
and please don't avoid the subject and as i requested Enlighten that 'if the standard of life was so much lower' during Shah's dictatorship how come so much blood has been spilled by your akhounds to keep them in power ???
are you calling iranian people stupid or gullible that they only revolt when their income or GDP or what have you is high (under akhounds) and they stay quiet when they are rolling in poverty (during shah)?
explain if you can.
I am not questioning the integrity of your presented 'data'. I am scrutinizing that you 'data' does not fit 'reality'. and data that does not fit reality becomes Marxism. i.e. an entity that sets your soul on fire when on paper and when implemented in society a total failure.
so please attempt to APPLY your 'solid' data to the REALITY OF LIFE OF IRANIAN PEOPLE OVER THE LAST FIFTY YEARS AND explain.
thank you.
you cannnot think in silos when you think of a regime (or government).
Their performance is a collective of their actions towards their population including, human rights, commodities, standard of life, medicare, insurance, education, recreation.
I reiterate that more people in Iran enjoyed a european style of living during the last decade of Shah's dictatorship rather than under any scumbag president or prime minister after the islamic revolution.
and what you mention about northern tehran is TOTAL BULLSHIT.
Even in villages and small size towns (aside from the ones that got ruined as a result of land reforms) people enjoyed a more secure and safe standard of life.
If the average income was lower by 200 % the prices of commodities were lower by 500 %.
and please don't avoid the subject and as i requested Enlighten that 'if the standard of life was so much lower' during Shah's dictatorship how come so much blood has been spilled by your akhounds to keep them in power ???
are you calling iranian people stupid or gullible that they only revolt when their income or GDP or what have you is high (under akhounds) and they stay quiet when they are rolling in poverty (during shah)?
explain if you can.
I am not questioning the integrity of your presented 'data'. I am scrutinizing that you 'data' does not fit 'reality'. and data that does not fit reality becomes Marxism. i.e. an entity that sets your soul on fire when on paper and when implemented in society a total failure.
so please attempt to APPLY your 'solid' data to the REALITY OF LIFE OF IRANIAN PEOPLE OVER THE LAST FIFTY YEARS AND explain.
thank you.
Actually it seems like that was exactly what you were protesting. You raised and then answered your own protest in those numbers you pulled in the post above! Your own words man:
There's no denying the income disparity and the resulting poverty prior to 1979. Most of it took place in an era of multiple economic booms followed by a period of relative decline and normalization which got disrupted by the revolution. Income disparities during economic volatility are very normal.
What Iranians have experienced since the revolution has been absolutely insane levels of plundering. Iran has had its fair share of economic boom/decline periods since the revolution but the general public has been left almost entirely out of all of it. The regime's plundering has allowed for some interesting subsidization actions that make the overall decline of living-standards (compared to first-world nations) seem relatively linear despite some crazy ups and downs in Iran's overall prosperity in the past 4 decades.
There's no denying the income disparity and the resulting poverty prior to 1979. Most of it took place in an era of multiple economic booms followed by a period of relative decline and normalization which got disrupted by the revolution. Income disparities during economic volatility are very normal.
What Iranians have experienced since the revolution has been absolutely insane levels of plundering. Iran has had its fair share of economic boom/decline periods since the revolution but the general public has been left almost entirely out of all of it. The regime's plundering has allowed for some interesting subsidization actions that make the overall decline of living-standards (compared to first-world nations) seem relatively linear despite some crazy ups and downs in Iran's overall prosperity in the past 4 decades.
Fine Then Let's discuss them one by one. rather than Jumping from one to the other.
I can completely agree with that statement (and I said in my post).
But That's not what you originally said. You said "Sad slide since the days of 1970s when they were living like Europeans." There was no qualification
that you are talking about subset of Iranians.
Again That was not the discussion we were having! if you are saying that Inflation was low then (almost 40 years ago) and now it is much much higher and if you are saying the purchasing power of Iranians was much higher then as opposed to now! I would not disagree. There maybe exceptions but generally that's true.
You are using Fallacy! You suggest that I said the Standard of Living During Shah Was lower! and then you object to it.
I never such a thing. I said the Standard of Living was not Europeans as you had suggested (two different things)
Again you are using twisted logic. There is no significance to rise of Iran's GDP during the past 36 years. Every country's GDP has risen. Population Rises, More Services gets Produced.
in fact if anything you can compare Iran's GDP to neighboring Turkey. and see that Iran's GDP is now almost 45% lower than that of Turkey with Similar population demographic and suggest that something has gone wrong. where in 1970 (Before oil getting expensive) Iran and Turkey were kind of on par in GDP and Population Terms.
What matters is Purchasing Power. What Matters is not GDP. if you look at the U.S GDP vs 36 years ago it has risen significantly. But That does not mean that people's Purchasing power has necessarily improved as well. and also it does not mean that economic wealth distribution is occurring in fair fashion.
The only point of the Exercise was to demonstrate to you that say Iraq's GDP per capita was also close to that of Iran's
Back Then. But They were a still far away from GDP of a country such as Spain whose GDP per capita was even lower than Greece.
If Anything the Data is an indictment of IRI's Regime economic performance! Because Iran's GDP compared to Countries like Spain (which have not experienced the fast growth) shows a grim picture. Spain's GDP per capita has improved by almost 6 folds (600%) in last 35 years (beating the inflation barely) so Purchasing power has Improved! Where Iran's Nominal GDP (Not purchasing parity) has improved only by 60%.
This means on a relative basis Iranians have got much poorer.
IRI can point out to 8 year war (which in large part they were to blame for)
IRI can point out to 34 years of Sanctions (which they were in large to blame for).
But Even Then That would explain maybe 200-300% of Iran's Lackluster GDP growth. The rest of it would completely blamable on their incompetence.
and That is not even to mention that a 3rd world country must grow at a faster clip than a first world (maybe Spain was kind of 2nd world then) country.
---
It is totally true to Say IRI has increased the Iranians living standard from that developed world (Europe, Korea, Japan, North America).
But Suggesting Before IRI's economic Disaster Iranians Standard of living was in par with the developed world is also misrepresentation of facts.
I can completely agree with that statement (and I said in my post).
But That's not what you originally said. You said "Sad slide since the days of 1970s when they were living like Europeans." There was no qualification
that you are talking about subset of Iranians.
Again That was not the discussion we were having! if you are saying that Inflation was low then (almost 40 years ago) and now it is much much higher and if you are saying the purchasing power of Iranians was much higher then as opposed to now! I would not disagree. There maybe exceptions but generally that's true.
You are using Fallacy! You suggest that I said the Standard of Living During Shah Was lower! and then you object to it.
I never such a thing. I said the Standard of Living was not Europeans as you had suggested (two different things)
Again you are using twisted logic. There is no significance to rise of Iran's GDP during the past 36 years. Every country's GDP has risen. Population Rises, More Services gets Produced.
in fact if anything you can compare Iran's GDP to neighboring Turkey. and see that Iran's GDP is now almost 45% lower than that of Turkey with Similar population demographic and suggest that something has gone wrong. where in 1970 (Before oil getting expensive) Iran and Turkey were kind of on par in GDP and Population Terms.
What matters is Purchasing Power. What Matters is not GDP. if you look at the U.S GDP vs 36 years ago it has risen significantly. But That does not mean that people's Purchasing power has necessarily improved as well. and also it does not mean that economic wealth distribution is occurring in fair fashion.
The only point of the Exercise was to demonstrate to you that say Iraq's GDP per capita was also close to that of Iran's
Back Then. But They were a still far away from GDP of a country such as Spain whose GDP per capita was even lower than Greece.
If Anything the Data is an indictment of IRI's Regime economic performance! Because Iran's GDP compared to Countries like Spain (which have not experienced the fast growth) shows a grim picture. Spain's GDP per capita has improved by almost 6 folds (600%) in last 35 years (beating the inflation barely) so Purchasing power has Improved! Where Iran's Nominal GDP (Not purchasing parity) has improved only by 60%.
This means on a relative basis Iranians have got much poorer.
IRI can point out to 8 year war (which in large part they were to blame for)
IRI can point out to 34 years of Sanctions (which they were in large to blame for).
But Even Then That would explain maybe 200-300% of Iran's Lackluster GDP growth. The rest of it would completely blamable on their incompetence.
and That is not even to mention that a 3rd world country must grow at a faster clip than a first world (maybe Spain was kind of 2nd world then) country.
---
It is totally true to Say IRI has increased the Iranians living standard from that developed world (Europe, Korea, Japan, North America).
But Suggesting Before IRI's economic Disaster Iranians Standard of living was in par with the developed world is also misrepresentation of facts.
if you read carefully what keyvan Said ("Iranians were living like Europeans"!) There is no qualification there for a subset of Iranians. It just says Iranians.
I suggested that on a relative basis (Purchasing power parity and..) Iranians had a closer standard of living to Europeans (developed world) than they do today.
That Statement Simply suggests that we were better off then. but We were not so well off to compare our selves to developed world.
Generally no Quarrels with that.
I suggested that on a relative basis (Purchasing power parity and..) Iranians had a closer standard of living to Europeans (developed world) than they do today.
That Statement Simply suggests that we were better off then. but We were not so well off to compare our selves to developed world.
Generally no Quarrels with that.
I see now.
Your stats (data) are just data. No application to real life.
In that case, I completely agree with your data that on paper Iran had lower GDP than the turks or the camel jockeys living to our EAST.
you won that discussion. I cannot argue with numbers and i am not even going to debate the source of your information i am sure it is reliable.
About the more REAL discussion here, which is really the application of GDP/money/standard of life I have not heard any explanations from you that would even start to invoke me to apply more energy to this conversation.
Your stats (data) are just data. No application to real life.
In that case, I completely agree with your data that on paper Iran had lower GDP than the turks or the camel jockeys living to our EAST.
you won that discussion. I cannot argue with numbers and i am not even going to debate the source of your information i am sure it is reliable.
About the more REAL discussion here, which is really the application of GDP/money/standard of life I have not heard any explanations from you that would even start to invoke me to apply more energy to this conversation.
did not take long for you to show your true colors. you are nothing that a cheap copy and paste of GDPs. When I ask you to apply your numbers to REALITY, you accuse me of subject hopping.
What is the point of your impotent stats when they have no application to everyday lives or they do and you are not capable of applying it. OR, you are but you are afraid of being wrong.
well, whatever the case maybe:
you, as other like yourselves, have resorted to personal attacks. This leaves me no other choice that to tell you to go FUCK YOURSELF with any apparatus and method that you see fit.
Any further talk or discussion with entities such as you result in a waste of time, dizziness and at best a negative feeling in one's mind as a result of shame of lowering one's standards to have even been involved in the conversation to start with.
good luck with your GDPs
What is the point of your impotent stats when they have no application to everyday lives or they do and you are not capable of applying it. OR, you are but you are afraid of being wrong.
well, whatever the case maybe:
you, as other like yourselves, have resorted to personal attacks. This leaves me no other choice that to tell you to go FUCK YOURSELF with any apparatus and method that you see fit.
Any further talk or discussion with entities such as you result in a waste of time, dizziness and at best a negative feeling in one's mind as a result of shame of lowering one's standards to have even been involved in the conversation to start with.
good luck with your GDPs