Mark Your Calender! Jan 2010 Coalition to attack Iran!

Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#61
NATIONALISM/Religious Extremism
I don't disagree with your post. A foreign invasion may topple I.R and bring a new government, but what about the rest of the attached strings? It won't be pretty aziz. It just won't be. It will just be different.
Look at Iraq.
We can safely say Soroosh jaan that the possibililty of an "invasion" is next to nil. It would have no support internationally or domestically and it would be a logistical nighmare of Biblical proportions - the lessons in Iraq and Afghanistan have been learnt. I believe the "military option" has always referred to a decisive and if necessary, sustained air-campaign with a naval blockade and precision surface-to-surface strikes from the Persian Gulf. Even at that, I highly doubt that the US is willing to come acorss as the offender and will wait for Iran, as I mentioned in another thread, to make the first mistake and "force" the US into the conflict with full international support. More and more, we seem to be headed in the direction of the Kosovo War which proved to be decisive without the need for an "invasion".

A full scale attack will be the end of the regime. but no doubt, it will completely ruin the country too.
With the Excpetion of the US and Canada Deerouz jaan, the rest of the world's most industrialized nations (G8) were built up from the ruins of war. Whatever happens in this case, I highly doubt that the devastation on the Iranian side will come close to what England, Germany, France, Italy, Japan or Russia suffered in the 2nd World War. You always say that we should be looking at longer term goals and targets, so if there's a possibility where we can take a step back to move forward and re-build a free and democratic Iran with the help of ALL qualified Iranians (40% of whom reside outside Iran), rather than having an unqualified, oppressive group at the helm, should we not consider that possibility and even embrace it?

Did it take Serbia more than 3 years to get their GDP back to 1998 levels? And 10 years on, are they not 4 times as productive as they were before the Kosovo war? It's really not the end of the world if we look at the big picutre. Of course, the loss of 500-1500 Serb civilians during that conflict is regrettable as will be the loss of any innocent lives in this conflict. But that's not even a notable fraction of how many innocent people have died at the hands of the IR and not even 10% of how many Iranians die on road related accidents every single year! Although the 28,000+ accident related deaths and the related 300,000+ injuries or disabilities do not bring us one step closer to a better Iran, those 500-1000 lives may very well usher in a new era for our country.

Im sure dropping nukes on Iran will topple IRI as well, but is it worth the cost? Sometimes when you try to fix something using the wrong tool, you make it much much worse (i.e. 1979). While its hard to imagine anything worse than IRI, all we have to do is look at our borders...
Farbod jaan, I have often thought about that myself and although I was completely against both invasions (to our East and West), putting all my prejudices aside, I can't help but notice that both countries have made great leaps forward compared to the days they were being ruled by some oppressive maniacs. Although I want to be very clear that under no circumstances would I support foreign troops setting foot on Iranian soil and still believe that these invasions were poorly planned and executed and remain completely against them, it would be foolish not to notice that Iraq and Afghanistan are both moving forward while we're still moving backward. You only need to speak to Iraqis and Afghans to see that the majority support the developments in their respective countries, despite the sevurity situation and everything else that has happened. Hell, the Afghans had a more transparent and free election than we did! Just give each country another 5 years and we will be sitting here envious of them, still asking ourselves what if...
 
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masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#62
BT Jaan
When I say: It will all depend on "Us" Iranians - I mean all Iranians - all who want to see the end of IR, including those of us outside.

I think the bottom line is - sooner or later something "Big" will happen in Iran - be it a major people uprising, a military style coup, allies military strikes, military invasion,....... something will happen that will cause "Partial" collapse of IR. When that happens, IR people will do one of the following 3 things:

1- They flea the country
2- They pick up arms and take cover in pre defined locations in Tehran, Ghom, Mashad, etc.).
3- They try to hide amongst the general population - hoping to regroup and take the country back.

The first two groups will not be difficult to deal with - but my point ("It depends on us Iranians") was about the third group. If the general population allows them to mix in and move about freely - then they would be able to terrorize the country via bombings, assassinations, ......and distabalize the country (ala Iraq). That scenario is even worst than an atomic bomb - because it can drag the country into years of disability and caos. Hence it is very crucial for the Green movement to identify IR elements.
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#63
AN's latest comments:

AFP: "The Zionist regime is nothing. Even its masters cannot do a damn thing," Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday, a day after declaring: "Any finger which is about to pull the trigger will be cut off."

USA TODAY: Speaking in a TV interview late Tuesday, Ahmadinejad also criticized Russia's support for the resolution of the International Atomic Energy Agency. "Russia made a mistake," Ahmadinejad said, maintaining that Britain and Israel swayed the opinion of the IAEA. "Friendly relations with the agency are over. We will cooperate as much as they offer us compromises. We are reviewing this," he said.

REUTERS: "Under pressure of a few superficially powerful countries ... the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) passed an illegal resolution against the Iranian nation," Ahmadinejad said in a televised speech in the central city of Isfahan. "The Zionist regime (Israel) and its (Western) backers can not do a damn thing to stop Iran's nuclear work," Ahmadinejad told a crowd to chants of "Death to Israel" and "death to America."
 
Aug 13, 2003
3,288
0
#64
The point is: Iran is now surrended by the US and coalition forces. In Iraq, Persian Gulf and Afghanistan. With the latest economical sanctions, it is just the matter of time that the country's economy will collapse. With Naval blockade in the Persian Gulf and an attack on its Nuke facilities, it will be just a matter fo time for the Iranian people to revolt like the 79 revolution against this fasist regime...
 

Bache Tehroon

Elite Member
Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#65
With AN's latest fuck up (read his latest K***sher speech), we are one step closer to war.

The whole thing smells too fishy and nasty. There's something out of the ordinary going on. Why would AN and co take such stupid risks? They either have a deal in the background or they simply are stupid. Either way, the Iranian people are getting screwed six ways from sunday unless the Green leaders get their shit together and stir something major up.
 

kambujiyeh

IPL Player
Oct 18, 2002
2,662
44
#66
Let me add something here. At the current moment, with all the internal issues facing Iran would a soft war (bombing of the so called Nuclear sites) help this regime or hurt it? In addition, does the same move for US or allies will help them internally with their populations or hurt them? I think a simple answer to this will help answer what will happen next.
 

Farzad-USA

Bench Warmer
Apr 4, 2007
2,329
0
rooyesh.blog.com
#67
Iranian pleaded guilty in smuggling case

WASHINGTON — An Iranian man has pleaded guilty to plotting to ship sensitive military technology to Iran, and told an undercover investigator his country's leaders think war is coming, court papers revealed Wednesday.

The documents show that Amir Ardebili gave a stark explanation for why he was trying to buy so many different weapons parts, including technology that would help protect Iran from missile attacks.

"By his own admission, Ardebili was assisting Iran in preparing for war with the United States," prosecutor David Hall wrote in a sentencing memorandum.

Ardebili "directly threatened the security of the United States," the prosecutor wrote. "He was a prolific acquisitions agent procuring or attempting to procure a wide range of components, for his sole customer, the government of Iran."

The papers also said that during a 2007 meeting with an undercover agent, Ardebili said he wanted so much material in case the U.S. goes to war with Iran, so that "the government (of Iran) could defend... Because they think the war is coming."

The case represents the latest example of what past and present U.S. officials say is an intense and ominous effort by Iran to evade export controls and acquire critical military technology amid a long-running standoff with the West over its nuclear program.

Federal authorities are set to discuss at a Delaware news conference the case against Ardebili, following a lengthy investigation by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents. Court papers say he secretly pleaded guilty May 2008 to a number of charges, including violating the Iranian arms embargo.

Ardebili was arrested in 2007 following a clandestine meeting with an undercover agent in the Caucasus nation of Georgia.

His capture has already been the subject of tense back-and-forth, after the Iranians complained this year of his earlier arrest in the Caucasus nation of Georgia. The Iranians have argued to United Nations officials that Ardebili and a handful of others have been improperly seized through U.S. efforts.
 
Oct 18, 2002
6,139
0
Los Angeles, CA USA
#70
Farbod jaan, I have often thought about that myself and although I was completely against both invasions (to our East and West), putting all my prejudices aside, I can't help but notice that both countries have made great leaps forward compared to the days they were being ruled by some oppressive maniacs. Although I want to be very clear that under no circumstances would I support foreign troops setting foot on Iranian soil and still believe that these invasions were poorly planned and executed and remain completely against them, it would be foolish not to notice that Iraq and Afghanistan are both moving forward while we're still moving backward. You only need to speak to Iraqis and Afghans to see that the majority support the developments in their respective countries, despite the sevurity situation and everything else that has happened. Hell, the Afghans had a more transparent and free election than we did! Just give each country another 5 years and we will be sitting here envious of them, still asking ourselves what if...
Do you really think that Iraq and Afghanistan are moving forward? Iraq will be under USA's boot for a very very long time and Afghanistan is controlled by the Taliban and their Heroine trade. That election was almost as much of a joke as ours was. If that is our goal, I say we all give up and move. I think we need something that will support a long term goal with a high ceiling, not a quick fix. Just getting rid of these monkeys isnt the answer. We need to insure that the next people in charge arent the same or worse.
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#71
Do you really think that Iraq and Afghanistan are moving forward? Iraq will be under USA's boot for a very very long time and Afghanistan is controlled by the Taliban and their Heroine trade. That election was almost as much of a joke as ours was. If that is our goal, I say we all give up and move. I think we need something that will support a long term goal with a high ceiling, not a quick fix. Just getting rid of these monkeys isnt the answer. We need to insure that the next people in charge arent the same or worse.
Of course they are bro. 10 years ago, women in Afghanistan were hardly allowed to leave their homes, let alone get an education. You are comparing a country with democratic elections and international monitors (no matter how flawed) to one ruled by the Taliban? The only thing that is holding Afghanistan back is their own backward mentality and ideologies. The influence of those ideologies has been reduced by a great extent in a relatively short period of time (in historical terms). You can't expect a foreign military to provide education for your people as well - that will come in time and through their own efforts - but they can at least provide that education now, whereas under a regime like Taliban, Afghanistan would still be in the same place centuries from now. In judging whether Afghanistan is moving forward, we can't compare it to some sort of Utopia that it could have never been, but at best to its past and where it comes from.

Again, I do not think that a full invasion was the right strategy to deal with the Taliban or Saddam or the right strategy to deal with the IR. I do think that Serbia and the Kosovo war is the most comparable situation to ours and under that scenario, the next people in charge can not and will not be the same or worse. After an ideology has been defeated to that extent, it is only natural that the more moderate and balanced elements in society will rise up to the challenge just as they did in Serbia. A military campaign against Iran will not bring the changes we need. It is simply a catalyst for the home-grown changes that are already under way.
 
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masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#72
Do you really think that Iraq and Afghanistan are moving forward?
Dear ADC - Do you know what was the first thing Americans did after disposing of Taliban and Sadam? They changed school books and raised teacher salaries by 300% in both countries. Now I ask you - do you understand the ramafications? can you think of a better move forward for those two countries?
 
Oct 18, 2002
6,139
0
Los Angeles, CA USA
#73
Dear ADC - Do you know what was the first thing Americans did after disposing of Taliban and Sadam? They changed school books and raised teacher salaries by 300% in both countries. Now I ask you - do you understand the ramafications? can you think of a better move forward for those two countries?
Talk to me when the big men with guns leave and they still have those books and salaries. Its just a shell game. Its not real change.
 
Aug 13, 2003
3,288
0
#74
All these wars, regime changes, installing democracy...is about OIL! Allen Greenspan said it in his book! Read it! Who ever controls the Persian Gulf oil controls 3/4 of the world oil supplies. Afghanistan is important because of two things, to draw a pipeline from the oil rich central asian nations to Pakistan and the Indian ocean therefore bypassing Iran and all other exsoviet countries by the Caspiean sea. Second, the American oil companies have found huge reserves of oil in the mountains of Afghanistan that they say it is even larger than the saudis. The problem is that region is at war with the US and also getting the oil out will be a though task due to the mountains. Anyhow, the exbreadmaker of Virginia, Hamid Kazie, is waiting for that moment of glory. It is all about oil!
 
Aug 13, 2003
3,288
0
#75
BT Jaan
When I say: It will all depend on "Us" Iranians - I mean all Iranians - all who want to see the end of IR, including those of us outside.

I think the bottom line is - sooner or later something "Big" will happen in Iran - be it a major people uprising, a military style coup, allies military strikes, military invasion,....... something will happen that will cause "Partial" collapse of IR. When that happens, IR people will do one of the following 3 things:

1- They flea the country
2- They pick up arms and take cover in pre defined locations in Tehran, Ghom, Mashad, etc.).
3- They try to hide amongst the general population - hoping to regroup and take the country back.

The first two groups will not be difficult to deal with - but my point ("It depends on us Iranians") was about the third group. If the general population allows them to mix in and move about freely - then they would be able to terrorize the country via bombings, assassinations, ......and distabalize the country (ala Iraq). That scenario is even worst than an atomic bomb - because it can drag the country into years of disability and caos. Hence it is very crucial for the Green movement to identify IR elements.
MasoudA, all these Islamic regimes in the middle east that were installed before the fall of the Soviet Union were to stop the spread of the Soviet sphere of influence not to get close to the warm waters of the oil rich Persian Gulf countries. From Ben Ladin in Afghanistan, Khomeni of Iran....Now that the Soveit Union no longer exists, there is no need for these brutal regimes to exists, ie Sadams, Khamenies, Ben Ladins...Therefore the US need to flush them out and 'install' freindly regimes. The problem is that some of these regimes and people ie Iran and Ben Ladin have become so dangerous and brutal that it takes the whole US armforces to get rid of them...
 
Aug 13, 2003
3,288
0
#76
Talk to me when the big men with guns leave and they still have those books and salaries. Its just a shell game. Its not real change.
It takes a very brutal regime and people to stop the spread of the Russian influence to the Persian Gulf. Just look at the Khomenie, Ben Ladin and see what they did to their own people and their masters- the Americans! Vicious!
 
May 16, 2006
321
0
#77
I see some are very active in trying to convince that if Iran is attacked, it's not because of anything other than the attackers & invaders were FORCED to attack and invade out of the goodness of their heart. Some using strong words, some using soft words, for the same message which has nothing to do with fairness. Just like we were forced to invade and occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, because, it was their fault, we didn't want to, but were forced to! (such lies!).

And the show goes on.
 
Aug 13, 2003
3,288
0
#78
I see some are very active in trying to convince that if Iran is attacked, it's not because of anything other than the attackers & invaders were FORCED to attack and invade out of the goodness of their heart. Some using strong words, some using soft words, for the same message which has nothing to do with fairness. Just like we were forced to invade and occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, because, it was their fault, we didn't want to, but were forced to! (such lies!).

And the show goes on.
Countries like China, India, Japan..will need huge qualtities of oil for their booming economies in the next decade. The US is well aware that if they don't use their only superpower status now in order to gain control of the oil, then the Chinese might snatch the countract right from them. That is why, Alexander Hague, Henry Kissinger...all traveled to the oil rich central Asian countries representing the US oil comapnies and sealed contracts with the US oil companies for the next several decades thus catching the Russians and the Chinese gov off guard. That is why Afghanistan is so important for the pipelines. Once the US is controlling the central Asia oil export and the middle east, they can remain the sole superpower in the world and have the trump card over Russia and China.
 

Bache Tehroon

Elite Member
Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#79
I see some are very active in trying to convince that if Iran is attacked, it's not because of anything other than the attackers & invaders were FORCED to attack and invade out of the goodness of their heart. Some using strong words, some using soft words, for the same message which has nothing to do with fairness. Just like we were forced to invade and occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, because, it was their fault, we didn't want to, but were forced to! (such lies!).

And the show goes on.
The world is not a fair one. No one should expect the bully to be fair. It's all about survival. If you don't play the game smartly, you will not survive. That has been the rule of life on earth since day 1 and it will remain so forever.

When you're down and being kicked from all sides, there's nothing smart about talking shit to the kickers. You roll into yourself and wait for a chance to run. Once you're a safe distance away you can choose to bark back or even more wisely take the kickers out one by one, or even much wiser than that, you can try to bring the kickers to your side one by one until the most evil one is left for the whole gang to kick.

Your "fairness" fairytale only exists in books.
 
Aug 13, 2003
3,288
0
#80
The world is not a fair one. No one should expect the bully to be fair. It's all about survival. If you don't play the game smartly, you will not survive. That has been the rule of life on earth since day 1 and it will remain so forever.

When you're down and being kicked from all sides, there's nothing smart about talking shit to the kickers. You roll into yourself and wait for a chance to run. Once you're a safe distance away you can choose to bark back or even more wisely take the kickers out one by one, or even much wiser than that, you can try to bring the kickers to your side one by one until the most evil one is left for the whole gang to kick.

Your "fairness" fairytale only exists in books.
The American people normaly look the other way when it come to wars in 'strange' lands. As long as they have their jobs, the kids goes to the scholl, they can put food on the table and have Sunday afternoon baberquee, they are happy. But once their sons and daughers are drafted for war, for oil, then they will no longer turn their head the other way. They get interested since now the life of their children is in qustion. They will then question their gov about the intentions. But the Gov never says it is about OIL! They will say US ' interest'. With the control of the media, the US will carefully orchestrate the invasion for intalling' Democracy'. The American people in most parts can't understand why their sons and daughters must die for oil. That is not a good sales pitch by the US gove!