Figurehead, Oligarchy advocates stole an election in the name of God. Figurehead, Oligarchy advocates are trying to steal the ensuing protests in the name of unity. And the rest of us are just dumb or foreign agents! Good going.
Haven't be hearing that we must unite now and let the people decide later? If the type of the government is up for future decision, then why can't a flag be? I am not opposing your flag or theirs or theirs or theirs. President-elect, Shah-elect, Flag-elect… Bad idea!
The flag issue is an attention seeker dressed up as the symbol for unity. Its foremost aim is to have a crack at gaining the leadership. They have perfect right to do so, but sadly they have picked the worst time and the wrong accusatory methods. Already those who oppose the move are being labeled as pro-IR. They call for unity while methodically discrediting others. It is a political move with absolute disregard to its consequences, which is nothing short of further obstructing the efforts of the protesters in Iran and disheartening them by witnessing clashes in protests in their support!
Haven't be hearing that we must unite now and let the people decide later? If the type of the government is up for future decision, then why can't a flag be? I am not opposing your flag or theirs or theirs or theirs. President-elect, Shah-elect, Flag-elect… Bad idea!
The flag issue is an attention seeker dressed up as the symbol for unity. Its foremost aim is to have a crack at gaining the leadership. They have perfect right to do so, but sadly they have picked the worst time and the wrong accusatory methods. Already those who oppose the move are being labeled as pro-IR. They call for unity while methodically discrediting others. It is a political move with absolute disregard to its consequences, which is nothing short of further obstructing the efforts of the protesters in Iran and disheartening them by witnessing clashes in protests in their support!
BTW - Who was right about Azizi ?? lol
I say the same about you - but the issue here is not who cares more for Iran - we want to debate who is more along the path that ends in our freedom. And believe me - at the end of the day we will probabaly not change each others minds. The benefit is in exploring angles of how to reach goals.
First - there is no doubt that people are riding the green tide to get rid of IRI. There is also no argument that this tide started because of the election held in Iran. There is also no doubt as you said that there are opportunists who want to LEAD this tide - not just flow with it. So the challenge is to stay with the tide - make it grow and not allow it to be led by opportunists and idiots.
Second - As much as the IRI wants to advertsise the opposite - and although we will never know the truth - but majority of People of Iran did not participate in this election or any other IRI elections. Majority of the people sat at home and enjoyed every minute of the debates where IRI's left and right sides were ruining each other - veryfying everything that people already knew - not from IRIB but from the words of mouth. This majority saw an opportunity and is riding with the green movement to get rid of IRI. Some of them think it's best to first go after the right side (Vali Faghih) and then the others.
I am going to stop there and see what everyone thinks so far.
I say the same about you - but the issue here is not who cares more for Iran - we want to debate who is more along the path that ends in our freedom. And believe me - at the end of the day we will probabaly not change each others minds. The benefit is in exploring angles of how to reach goals.
First - there is no doubt that people are riding the green tide to get rid of IRI. There is also no argument that this tide started because of the election held in Iran. There is also no doubt as you said that there are opportunists who want to LEAD this tide - not just flow with it. So the challenge is to stay with the tide - make it grow and not allow it to be led by opportunists and idiots.
Second - As much as the IRI wants to advertsise the opposite - and although we will never know the truth - but majority of People of Iran did not participate in this election or any other IRI elections. Majority of the people sat at home and enjoyed every minute of the debates where IRI's left and right sides were ruining each other - veryfying everything that people already knew - not from IRIB but from the words of mouth. This majority saw an opportunity and is riding with the green movement to get rid of IRI. Some of them think it's best to first go after the right side (Vali Faghih) and then the others.
I am going to stop there and see what everyone thinks so far.
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This is a good flag since it has been made by the people, not governments. The flag must represent the entire nation, not one religious or ethnic demographic and as such will be decided by the nation in a free Iran. Many ancient symbols, such as the Sun and the Lion - holding a torch signifying enlightenment, not a sword signifying violence - will undoubtedly play a lasting and important role in identifying the land and nation of Iran.
This is a good flag since it has been made by the people, not governments. The flag must represent the entire nation, not one religious or ethnic demographic and as such will be decided by the nation in a free Iran. Many ancient symbols, such as the Sun and the Lion - holding a torch signifying enlightenment, not a sword signifying violence - will undoubtedly play a lasting and important role in identifying the land and nation of Iran.
Foroohasht ze oo sorkh o zard o banafsh
Hami khanadash Kaviyani Derafsh
What a thread!
What Moshiri tried to say was this:
A youth grown during 1979 and after:
So lets decide when we are free after we have a free Iran with experts coming up with another sleek design. When people are free their choice will be everyones. For the moment, I do not care if this Kharchang means an Arabic thing and is an Indian copy. It is my choice! I will carry it wherever whenever and will be so proud to carry it while dressed in full green.
You are welcome to bring Lion and Sun but do not insult me for carrying one wrapped around our war heroes caskets!
What Moshiri tried to say was this:
A youth grown during 1979 and after:
- has seen lion and sun only when Pahlavi did use the emblem, e.g. Shahanshahi army killing a few youngsters in their neighborhood, similar scenes we see today by IRI.
- has seen his comrades wrapped around the flag, some of you call Kharchang or Indian or whatever (who cares really where it came from - at the moment majority of Iranians believe in the religion anyhow - so for them Allah is Great - look at how they chant it).
- for whatever reason, they are willing to carry green and die carrying green and the current flag, but hardly seen to be carrying Lion and Sun - far from it, they do not like to carry Lion and Sun to disassociate themselves from monarchist... no one likes to be seen as a monarchist inside Iran, we have to deal with it - that is a fact, despite all good memories from Shah and all NOOR BE GHABRESH BEBAAREH!!!
- The flag has been approved by people of Iran when changed so another change of flag can come when people decide again. So why insist so much on a flag that does create disunity??
So lets decide when we are free after we have a free Iran with experts coming up with another sleek design. When people are free their choice will be everyones. For the moment, I do not care if this Kharchang means an Arabic thing and is an Indian copy. It is my choice! I will carry it wherever whenever and will be so proud to carry it while dressed in full green.
You are welcome to bring Lion and Sun but do not insult me for carrying one wrapped around our war heroes caskets!
The flag of IR trurly symbolizes what Islamic republic stood for. Having Arabic language on the flag of Iran clearly states that IR works for only a group of people who identify with that language and it's meaning. And they proved that.
Let's be smarter and pay attention to what a group use as their symbol in the future
You become what you state. And Islamic republic and Allah on the flag were the words that were spoken af the creation of IR and what the Iranian regime came to be.
Green is a nice symbol although used by Hamas? What does it come to signal? Who has used it in the past?
Let's be smarter and pay attention to what a group use as their symbol in the future
You become what you state. And Islamic republic and Allah on the flag were the words that were spoken af the creation of IR and what the Iranian regime came to be.
Green is a nice symbol although used by Hamas? What does it come to signal? Who has used it in the past?
[FONT="]The problem is here as you already mentioned.
I have been to several Tazohorats in Europe and also here in NZ. Monarchists always make a big deal out of this issue, and as I have witnessed myself, they tend to insult or fight other people for carrying different flags, although not all of them are like that. For example, we had a friend who was actually quite a gentleman and he was part of SAVAK before the revolution, and when in 2003 there was huge rally in Holland to support Iranian students, when Monarchists made a big deal out of the flag issue, he distanced himself from them and joined other protesters.
However, as I said Monarchists make a big deal out of this issue. For example, here in Auckland when I went to a protest last month, in the middle of the protest a woman suddenly looked at everyone ( some protesters were carrying IR flag) and shouted: Parchame MA Shiro Khorshide, har ki ghabool nadare, khosh khoomad. Thus people looked at her and said to her: ETTEHAD ETTEHAD. After that she did shut up.
I hope monarchists learn a lesson and don’t act like dictators themselves and try to understand that their different things at stake and their other priorities than what is the flag issue.
[/FONT]After all, this movement is not about them, they should just be part of it and they should not try to act as of they are the leaders of this movement. They couldn't do shit in the past 30 years, so please don't be opportunists this time.
I have been to several Tazohorats in Europe and also here in NZ. Monarchists always make a big deal out of this issue, and as I have witnessed myself, they tend to insult or fight other people for carrying different flags, although not all of them are like that. For example, we had a friend who was actually quite a gentleman and he was part of SAVAK before the revolution, and when in 2003 there was huge rally in Holland to support Iranian students, when Monarchists made a big deal out of the flag issue, he distanced himself from them and joined other protesters.
However, as I said Monarchists make a big deal out of this issue. For example, here in Auckland when I went to a protest last month, in the middle of the protest a woman suddenly looked at everyone ( some protesters were carrying IR flag) and shouted: Parchame MA Shiro Khorshide, har ki ghabool nadare, khosh khoomad. Thus people looked at her and said to her: ETTEHAD ETTEHAD. After that she did shut up.
I hope monarchists learn a lesson and don’t act like dictators themselves and try to understand that their different things at stake and their other priorities than what is the flag issue.
[/FONT]After all, this movement is not about them, they should just be part of it and they should not try to act as of they are the leaders of this movement. They couldn't do shit in the past 30 years, so please don't be opportunists this time.