my opinion on the koon goshadi month of muslims and other shit-e witchcraft rituals

[keyvan_pars]

خاک بر سر هر موجود احمق که جلوی عرب متجاوز و سید ها که نتیجه جفت گیری عرب های میمون صفت با ایرانی نما ها هستند زانو میزند
رمضان، اربعین ، عاشورا ، تاسوعا ،حج و غدیر خم نماد های یک سری حیوان هستند که توسط دو تا الاغ به اسم مجلسی و کلینی در ایران مثل جذام پخش شد
هر نمک به حرومی که این رسوم مسخره را دنبال کند خائن به خون ایرانی و توله بابا های عرب است

 

[masoudA]

You forgot - Iranian moslems eat the most during ramadan!!

Here is the latest Poem from Simin Behbahani - this one is a direct hit
I hope she does not land in jail.


قلم چرخید و فرمان را گرفتند

ورق برگشت و ایران را گرفتند

به تیتر «شاه رفت ِ» اطلاعات

توجه کرده کیهان را گرفتند

چپ و مذهب گره خوردند و شیخان

شبانه جای شاهان را گرفتند

همه ازحجره***ها بیرون خزیدند

به سرعت سقف و ایوان را گرفتند

گرفتند و گرفتن کارشان شد

هرآنچه خواستند آن را گرفتند

به هرانگیزه و با هر بهانه

مسلمان، نامسلمان را گرفتند

به جرم بدحجابی، بد لباسی

زنان را نیز، مردان را گرفتند

سراغ سفره ها، نفتی نیامد

ولیکن در عوض نان راگرفتند

یکی نان خواست بردندش به زندان

از آن بیچاره دندان را گرفتند

یکی آفتابه دزدی گشت افشاء

به دست آفتابه داشت آن را گرفتند

یکی خان بود از حیث چپاول

دوتا مستخدم خان را گرفتند

فلان ملا مخالف داشت بسیار

مخالف***های ایشان را گرفتند

بده مژده به دزدان خزانه

که شاکی***های آنان را گرفتند

چو شد درآستان قدس دزدی

گداهای خراسان را گرفتند

به جرم اختلاس شرکت نفت

برادرهای دربان را گرفتند

نمیخواهند چون خر را بگیرند

محبت کرده پالان را گرفتند

غذا را آشپز چون شور میکرد

سر سفره نمکدان را گرفتند

چو آمد سقف مهمانخانه پائین

به حکم شرع مهمان را گرفتند

به قم از روی توضیح ***المسائل

همه اغلاط قرآن را گرفتند

به جرم ارتداد از دین اسلام

دوباره شیخ صنعان را گرفتند

به این گله دوتا گرگ خودی زد

خدائی شد که چوپان را گرفتند

به ما درد و مرض دادند بسیار

دلیلش اینکه درمان راگرفتند

همه این***ها جهنم؛ این خلایق

ز مردم دین و ایمان را گرفتند

 

[arash_kaman]

damn man, why do we worship a religion imposed on us ?

 

[deerouz]

You forgot - Iranian moslems eat the mest during ramadan!!

Here is the latest Poem from Simin Behbahani - this one is a direct hit
I hope she does not land in jail.

Masoud jan that's an old poem from Hadi Khorsandi not Simin behbahani:

http://www.asgharagha.com/archives/002105.php

 

[Messi]

this thread is first hand proof of why iran will never be a democracy, most iranians have this same mentality as keyvan_pars, just at opposite ends of the spectrum. sad really...

 

[deerouz]

this thread is first hand proof of why iran will never be a democracy, most iranians have this same mentality as keyvan_pars, just at opposite ends of the spectrum. sad really...

Wrong! Democracy is a system where people can freely express their disgust at each others views and opinions, just as Keyvan did (regardless of whether we agree with him or not). He hasn't stopped anyone from practicing what they want. Just freely expressed his disgust.

 

[Messi]

Wrong! Democracy is a system where people can freely express their disgust at each others views and opinions, just as Keyvan did (regardless of whether we agree with him or not). He hasn't stopped anyone from practicing what they want. Just freely expressed his disgust.

true, but I can't help but wonder if he would put his beliefs into action he was a figure if authority in iran, just like IR

 

[deerouz]

true, but I can't help but wonder if he would put his beliefs into action he was a figure if authority in iran, just like IR

So you are sentencing him before he commits the crime?

 

[Messi]

Well not really, it's just that the tone of his post doesn't really boast of tolerence, if you catch my drift

 

[Bache Tehroon]

true, but I can't help but wonder if he would put his beliefs into action he was a figure if authority in iran, just like IR

Of course he would. However, the right system would give the authority to someone more moderate than Keyvan who actually listens to Keyvan and plans his actions accordingly.

Such systems can only exist and function if the culture and core of the society decide it can.

 

[masoudA]

Masoud jan that's an old poem from Hadi Khorsandi not Simin behbahani:

Deerouz jaan - thanx.
It was e-mailed to me today from Tehran!! calling it the latest Simin Behbahani bravery!!

 

[khodam]

Wrong! Democracy is a system where people can freely express their disgust at each others views and opinions, just as Keyvan did (regardless of whether we agree with him or not). He hasn't stopped anyone from practicing what they want. Just freely expressed his disgust.

I disagree. In a functioning democracy people don't go around expressing their disgust at each others views, and certainly not at each others religion. They may freely express, as the norm, their disagreement or even displeasure in matters of opinion and public conduct but often not their disgust and definitely not directed towards a private matter such as religion.

And there is there's the little matter of tolerance that is the cornerstone of democracy.

 

[masoudA]

Democracy can only be built over a foundation of human rights.
Anybody anywhere is especially free to express his or her disgust against Islam or any other institution that is against the basic concepts of human rights.

 

[deerouz]

I disagree. In a functioning democracy people don't go around expressing their disgust at each others views, and certainly not at each others religion. They may freely express, as the norm, their disagreement or even displeasure in matters of opinion and public conduct but often not their disgust and definitely not directed towards a private matter such as religion.

And there is there's the little matter of tolerance that is the cornerstone of democracy.

Khodam jan, two issues are mixed here: "tolerance" means one is allowed to freely practice what s/he want. that has nothing to do with expressing disgust. There is a difference between "respect" and "tolerance" that people seem to confuse. Every opinion is entitled to tolerance within the scope of rights and laws; no opinion is entitled to "respect".

Freedom of speech is mainly aimed to protect "disgusting" and "offensive" speech. Inoffensive speech needs no protection. Inoffensive speech is free in Iran today! and was free under Nazis and Stalin etc. As soon as a society attempts to limit freedom of speech to "respect", there is no freedom of speech at all. and on the other hand as soon as the freedom of speech is granted, all other rights follow.

 

[Messi]

I think people in a civilised society (rather than a functioning democracy) wouldn't epress their views like this, and of course in the first place if you don't have a civilised and tolerent society (as in Iran's case) how on earth can you have a democracy? democracy comes from the people.

 

[deerouz]

I think people in a civilised society (rather than a functioning democracy) wouldn't epress their views like this, and of course in the first place if you don't have a civilised and tolerent society (as in Iran's case) how on earth can you have a democracy? democracy comes from the people.

I don't know about civilized, but the largest democracy on the earth, the united states, is also the place with the strongest protection for freedom of speech, the 1st amendment. You openly hear such offensive expressions there in favor or against an opinion, and it has not stopped democracy from functioning. As an example, it is not a surprise that the country which is often accused of being the strongest supporter of Israel and Jews, is also home to the major holocaust deniers and their institutions.

 

[Motori]

I disagree. In a functioning democracy people don't go around expressing their disgust at each others views, and certainly not at each others religion. They may freely express, as the norm, their disagreement or even displeasure in matters of opinion and public conduct but often not their disgust and definitely not directed towards a private matter such as religion.

And there is there's the little matter of tolerance that is the cornerstone of democracy.

Khodam jAn,

If they kept their religion as private matter then we wouldn't know what religion it was, thus not subjected to criticism.

BTW: Unlimited tolerance twd intolerant will always lead to disappearance of the tolerance itself.

 

[khodam]

"tolerance" means one is allowed to freely practice what s/he want.

I disagree again. That is rule of law, or the legal manifestation of the principle of tolerance if you may, that you mention above. In a democracy everyone is, by law, entitled to his/her right to practice the religions of her/his choice. Within that context, ignorance or dogmatism of people living under that law doesn't change the law. Tolerance that I speak of is "cultural tolerance" not legal. You can have a constitutionally democratic country where culture of tolerance is not adequately diffused in the society. I think US is a good example of this on some matters such as homosexuality. European countries are good examples on other topics (e.g. race in certain countries). IMO you only have true democracy when democratic principles (tolerance chief among them) is widely diffused in the society. Of course you will never have a society where every single person is tolerant. That is why I mentioned the "norm" in social behaviour. In a functioning democracy (again from a cultural standpoint, not legal) the norm of social behaviour is not hatred, disgust, or offensive speech towards religion or school of thought. You're right that behaviour outside the norm may still be protected (although certainly not at the level we saw above calling those who practice a certain religion "khaen", "namak be haroom", and "sag") but it becomes the norm, if it doesn't raise eyebrows, then you have to question how functional that democracy is at a societal level.

 

[deerouz]

Khodam jan,

I understand what you are saying, but I guess we have a different view of tolerance and democracy. What you call "cultural tolerance", I call "respect". In my view "respect" takes a much much lower priority in establishing a democracy, than other factors such as tolerance and freedom of speech. As a matter of fact I argue that respect could be a result of a functioning democracy: people who feel their voices are heard, rarely have to yell obscenities. but IMO it is never a prerequisite for democracy as in "we will never be a democracy until...".
But I guess we have to agree to disagree on these issues.

 

[khodam]

Khodam jAn,

If they kept their religion as private matter then we wouldn't know what religion it was, thus not subjected to criticism.

BTW: Unlimited tolerance twd intolerant will always lead to disappearance of the tolerance itself.

Most religions practice in ways that has one form or the other of public manifestation. There is nothing wrong with that. What I assume you don't approve of is when the practice of the religion affects lives of non-practicing members of the society. Even then, you should not treat those who don't negatively affect the society the same way you treat others.

Tolerance does not mean that one has to accept everything. It means that we should allow for the possibility that we are wrong, that there are other ways than ours, and that perspective matters.