no US-IRAN dialogue under ahmadeinejad

IRANAIRFORCE

Bench Warmer
Nov 18, 2003
589
0
california
#1
There is no way in hell US would revive reconcilation talk while ahmadenejad is in charge.The allegation that he was a key memebr of the students who stormed us embassy in 1979 will haunt him while he is in office and any euoprean leaders will shy away from meeting him.In short Iran foregin policy is handcuffed by ahmadenejad victory and those who opposed US-IRAN reapproachment in IR couldnt pick a better person to continue their agenda.



Some former U.S. hostages believe Iran's president-elect one of their captors Wed. 29 Jun 2005



Associated Press

By RUSS BYNUM
Associated Press Writer

A quarter-century after they were taken captive in Iran, five former American hostages say they got an unexpected reminder of their 444-day ordeal in the bearded face of Iran's new president-elect.

Watching coverage of Iran's presidential election on television dredged up 25-year-old memories that prompted four of the former hostages to exchange e-mails. And those four realized they shared the same conclusion - the firm belief that President-elect Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been one of their Iranian captors.

"This is the guy. There's no question about it," said former hostage Chuck Scott, a retired Army colonel who lives in Jonesboro, Ga. "You could make him a blond and shave his whiskers, put him in a zoot suit and I'd still spot him."

Scott and former hostages David Roeder, William J. Daugherty and Don A. Sharer told The Associated Press on Wednesday they have no doubt Ahmadinejad, 49, was one of the hostage-takers. A fifth ex-hostage, Kevin Hermening, said he reached the same conclusion after looking at photos.

Not everyone agrees. Former hostage and retired Air Force Col. Thomas E. Schaefer said he doesn't recognize Ahmadinejad, by face or name, as one of his captors.

Several former students among the hostage-takers also said Ahmadinejad did not participate. And a close aide to Ahmadinejad denied the president-elect took part in the seizure of the embassy or in holding Americans hostage.

The United States broke off ties with Iran after militant students seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran on Nov. 4, 1979, and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days to protest Washington's refusal to hand over Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi for trial.

The aide, Meisan Rowhani, told the AP from Tehran that Ahmadinejad was asked during recent private meetings if he had a role in the hostage taking. Rowhani said he replied, "No. I believed that if we do that the world will swallow us."

Scott and Roeder both said they were sure Ahmadinejad was present while they were interrogated.

"I can absolutely guarantee you he was not only one of the hostage-takers, he was present at my personal interrogation," Roeder said in an interview from his home in Pinehurst, N.C.

Daugherty, who worked for the CIA in Iran and now lives in Savannah, said a man he's convinced was Ahmadinejad was among a group of ringleaders escorting a Vatican representative during a visit in the early days of the hostage crisis.

"It's impossible to forget a guy like that," Daugherty said. "Clearly the way he acted, the fact he gave orders, that he was older, most certainly he was one of the ringleaders."

Ahmadinejad, the hard-line mayor of Tehran, was declared winner Wednesday of Iran's presidential runoff election, defeating one of Iran's best-known statesmen, Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani. The stunning upset put conservatives firmly in control of all branches of power in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Scott, Roeder, Daugherty and Sharer said they have been exchanging e-mails since seeing Ahmadinejad emerge as a serious contender in Iran's elections.

"He was extremely cruel," said Sharer, of Bedford, Ind. "He's one of the hard-liners. So that tells you where their government's going to stand for the next four to five years."

After seeing recent newspaper photos, Sharer said, "I don't have any doubts" that Ahmadinejad was a hostage-taker.

Schaefer, of Peoria, Ariz., didn't recognize Ahmadinejad and said allegations that he had been a hostage-taker don't concern him as much as knowing hard-liners are back in power in Iran.

Scott gave a detailed account of the man he recalled as Ahmadinejad, saying he appeared to be a security chief among the hostage-takers.

"He kind of stayed in the background most of the time," Scott said. "But he was in on some of the interrogations. And he was in on my interrogation at the time they were working me over."

Scott also recalled an incident while he was held in the Evin prison in north Tehran in the summer of 1980.

One of the guards, whom Scott called Akbar, would sometimes let Scott and Sharer out to walk the narrow, 20-foot hallway outside their cells, he said. One day, Scott said, the man he believes was Ahmadinejad saw them walking and chastised the guard.

"He was the security chief, supposedly," Scott said. "When he found out Akbar had let us out of our cells at all, he chewed out Akbar. I speak Farsi. He said, `These guys are dogs they're pigs, they're animals. They don't deserve to be let out of their cells.'"

Scott recalled responding to the man's stare by openly cursing his captor in Farsi. "He looked a little flustered like he didn't know what to do. He just walked out."

Roeder said he's sure Ahmadinejad was present during one of his interrogations when the hostage-takers threatened to kidnap his son in the U.S. and "start sending pieces - toes and fingers of my son - to my wife."

"It was almost like he was checking on the interrogation techniques they were using in a sort of adviser capacity," Roeder said.

Hermening, of Mosinee, Wis., the youngest of the hostages, said that after he looked at photos and did research on the Internet, he came to the conclusion that Ahmadinejad was one of his questioners.

Hermening had been Marine guard at the embassy, and he recalled the man he believes was Ahmadinejad asking him for the combination to a safe.

"His English would have been fairly strong. I couldn't say that about all the guards," Hermening said. "I remember that he was certainly direct, threatening, very unfriendly."

Rowhani, the aide to Ahmadinejad, said Ahmadinejad said during the recent meeting that he stopped opposing the embassy seizure after the revolution's leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, expressed support for it. But the president-elect said he never took part.

"Definitely he was not among the students who took part in the seizure," said Abbas Abdi, the leader of the hostage-takers. Abdi has since become a leading supporter of reform and sharply opposed Ahmadinejad. "He was not part of us. He played no role in the seizure, let alone being responsible for security" for the students.

Another of the hostage-takers, Bijan Abidi, said Ahmadinejad "was not involved. There was no one by that name among the students who took part in the U.S. Embassy seizure."


Associated Press writers Aaron Beard in Raleigh, N.C., Amanda Keim in Phoenix, Deanna Wrenn in Indianapolis and Robert Imrie in Wausau, Wis., contributed to this report.
 
Mar 2, 2003
2,677
0
#5
I find it curious why those in Iran involved in the whole affair, and who are not friends of Ahmadinejad by any means, are denying that he was involved? That along with the denials from his office are what make me suspicious, although not willing to categorically rule out the story.

Regardless, I do expect a deluge of propaganda against Iran, throwing a mixture of facts, mud, lies, and whatever else comes in handy, all meant to build pressure on Iran in anticipation of a so-called package on the nuclear issue that the EU knows Iran will not accept willingingly. The focus is to scare Iran. If it works, and Iran blinks, they will know that they can scare Iran all the way to reaching their final objective. Step by step.

If Iran manages to show backbone, I believe it can fracture the coalition against it. Even if that tactic fails, it is not at all clear the alternative is any more attractive than the consequences that Iran faces.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#6
Simply Ken said:
If Iran manages to show backbone, I believe it can fracture the coalition against it. Even if that tactic fails, it is not at all clear the alternative is any more attractive than the consequences that Iran faces.
Exactly..so that leaves us with the reality that Neocons would benefit from Iran's election outcome no matter who would get elected.

True they cant continue their dialogue with Iran under AN's presidency, but they have a good chance of sending Iran's WMD case to security council or start a new War on Iran(bc of WMD + to 'free' ppl from extremists,blah blah blah).
 
Mar 2, 2003
2,677
0
#7
Niloufar said:
Exactly..so that leaves us with the reality that Neocons would benefit from Iran's election outcome no matter who would get elected.

True they cant continue their dialogue with Iran under AN's presidency, but they have a good chance of sending Iran's WMD case to security council or start a new War on Iran(bc of WMD + to 'free' ppl from extremists,blah blah blah).
I actually disagree. Provided Khamenie stands tough and strong, I believe Iran can break the fake "unity" that the US has been imposing regarding Iran on the EU. With Russia and China also deciding they can't allow what the US had in mind to succeed.

But if Iran had a president that was compromising, they would just escalate their demands after each blink/compromise. Everyone else would go along, because that would the path of least resistance. Until things would be set for them to go for the kill. That would put Iran on the path of a slow motion death, while I believe that if Iran stands firm in the face of what will be HUGE pressures and propaganda, it can get out of this whole thing even a winner.

Incidentally, the pictures I have seen of Ahmadinejad show a very short guy. Much shorter than the pictures that were run by the "Iran Focus" site and which, coincidentally (wow) saw several hostages remember Ahmadinejad and talk about the same news cycle!

Here is a picture of Ahmadinejad standing next to Hugo Chavez, who is not that tall. You see other folks in the background. I just don't think the "diminutive" president-elect who was kind of lost behind the microphones in his press conference has shrunk so much the past 26 years!

 
Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#8
they have to( either side),the time is runing out,no matter who took office in iran,maybe americans would prefer raf-joni.
anyhow regime in iran has nine months from now to put their act togethr .
mahmoud agha believes that he can do the job .
btw couple of guys in his team who I knew from before trully good guys .
not even close as murderer but a patriot.
 

IRANAIRFORCE

Bench Warmer
Nov 18, 2003
589
0
california
#9
I am starting to believe that as along as IR is in power, Mullahs preferr to have no US-Iran realtionship. They can blame all their ills on US and profit immensily by tarnsiting goods thru dubai. Its a classic mafia story.remeber mafia thrived while US had prohibition law in 1920's.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#10
I have little doubt in my mind that the Basiji thug, AhmadNejad was the advisor in the hostage taker giving order. Which means he was getting order from someplace else, running the show from behind the scene. Those bastards caused the destruction of the indivisuals in Iran by hostage taking.

CNN has a great picture on the front page of him then and now. It is the same guy.

That should be interesting to see what will now happen with the mullahs putting a hostage taker in charge, espeically one that the hostages are saying was the nastiest one and around during the interrogation.

Simply Ken, do not understimate the power of US and Europe. Regardless of what many bellieve, we are no were as powerful as they are. Dont think we can bully them around.

keyvan_pars, I totally agree with you.

IRAN AIRFORCE, perfectly put. If Iran establishes relationship with US, it is the end of the mullah government.
 
Mar 2, 2003
2,677
0
#11
lordofmordor said:
I have little doubt in my mind that the Basiji thug, AhmadNejad was the advisor in the hostage taker giving order. Which means he was getting order from someplace else, running the show from behind the scene. Those bastards caused the destruction of the indivisuals in Iran by hostage taking.
The ring leader of the students who took the hostages of Abdi -- the guy who was put in jail for his poll about Iran-US relations. He has denied Ahmadinejad was involved and so have all the other students involved who were interviewed by reporters.

The picture of the bearded fellow who was shown escorting a US hostage is unlikely to be Ahmadinejad. The nose is different, and most importantly, Ahmadinejad just seems to be much more dimunitive in size.

The CNN photo is not something I can comment about. Is that photo a picture of Ahamdinejad from his young days? Or is that a photo of an actual student involved in the hostage taking? If it is the latter, the US has tons of experts who can quickly determine whether the two are the same person! If it is the former, of course they are the same person but that does not prove anything!

This is not a difficult issue to determine for a fact. The US has a wealth of intelligence about the students involved. It would know already if Ahmadinejad was one of them. But even it didn't, photo analysis can easily resolve the issue.

So far, despite an interest in proclaiming Ahmadinejad one of the captors, the official US position has been that they "are looking into the matter".

In the meantime, prejudiced people who seem to relish the idea of Iran falling into turmoil and civil war and proclaiming to know things they have no basis to know!
 

IRANAIRFORCE

Bench Warmer
Nov 18, 2003
589
0
california
#12
In the meantime, prejudiced people who seem to relish the idea of Iran falling into turmoil and civil war and proclaiming to know things they have no basis to know![/QUOTE]

This goes for everyone including yourself with your rosy predictions of this election.Going as far as calling ahmadenejad intellectual and predicting a reformist victory.
 
Mar 2, 2003
2,677
0
#13
IRANAIRFORCE said:
This goes for everyone including yourself with your rosy predictions of this election.Going as far as calling ahmadenejad intellectual and predicting a reformist victory.
I never predicted a reformist victory. Get your facts straight.

P.S.

As for Ahmadinejad being an intellectual, the person I heard speak was a bright, intelligent, and edcuated person. Someone who would have finished as the best high school student from East Tehran before the revolution, who would have placed in the top 200 nationwide in the cancour exam, who would have been admitted to Iran's elite technical university...

Ahmadinejad is more educated than 99% of the people in Iran! Besides his engineering degree, he has a doctorate in urban engineering and planning and is a university lecturer. His ideas could be wrong, and you can disagee with him, but to call him ignorant or stupid is itself ignorant and stupid.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#14
Simply Ken, this guy is not an intellectual. Dont forget that after the revolution many have been able to get into universities through religious ties and without studying, got a degree. This is where I palce this animal. he certainly does not sound intelleget and that is why the poor in Iran bellive what he says.

I bellieve even Abdi understands the implication of the Iranian president being a hostage taker. So, even they would not admit. Also, dont forget that you have Basiji in office. You are not talking about a human being. You are talking about a brutal murderer, one that will brutally toruture and cut you into pieces and let you suffer. So, dont think anyone would admit and take a chance on a basij.

The first to bring this up was a very trustful journalist and then hostages themselves. It is obvious that this dog was not someone who was in charge of the students but rather an advisor that seem to run things in the background. Someone with ties to the outside. Probabaly one of Khamanie's dog during the time he was busy killing his oppositions, even the other liberal akhoonds. the photo looks very similar to him.

Once you are interrogated by someone, you better bellieve you will remember his face.

Altough, I hate what US has done to Iraq and to Iran in the past, I do want them to take this animal AN away and do to him what he did to our people and to Iran.
 

Old-Faraz

Bench Warmer
Mar 19, 2004
1,118
0
#15
lordofmordor said:
Simply Ken, this guy is not an intellectual. Dont forget that after the revolution many have been able to get into universities through religious ties and without studying, got a degree. This is where I palce this animal. he certainly does not sound intelleget and that is why the poor in Iran bellive what he says.
I do not really care to get into this debate as I really do not have anything to add at this point. However, in the interest of accuracy, AN got into university before the revolution, when there was no sahmieh for anyone. He must have been a good student. What this proves, I do not think much. But again, we should have our facts straight.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#16
Old-Faraz said:
I do not really care to get into this debate as I really do not have anything to add at this point. However, in the interest of accuracy, AN got into university before the revolution, when there was no sahmieh for anyone. He must have been a good student. What this proves, I do not think much. But again, we should have our facts straight.
I agree with Old-Faraz
He got in the university before the reveloution. Did he finish his undergrad degree before 1978?

As far as his master and PHD :) well, I know he went to UK to do his master but came back empty handed, lets just leave it at that.
 

IRANAIRFORCE

Bench Warmer
Nov 18, 2003
589
0
california
#17
reagrdless of how he got his PHD, the fact remains he was a hostage taker and in vilation of international law and this is a no no for a head of state.If this is proven to be true he should resign his post and let a more decent individual represent Iran. His actions harmed Iran and Iranians 25 years ago and his so called election will do the same.
 

IRANAIRFORCE

Bench Warmer
Nov 18, 2003
589
0
california
#18
بوش خواهان روش شدن اتهام شرکت احمدي نژاد در اشغال سفارت آمريكا در تهران شد
رئيس جمهوري آمريكا روز پنجشنبه گفت باید معلوم شودمحمود احمدي نژاد، رئيس منتخب جمهوري اسلامي در ماجراي اشغال سفارت آمريكا در تهران دست داشته است يانه. پنج گروگان سابق سفارت آمريكا در تهران مي گويند: محمود احمدي نژاد يكي از بازيگران اصلي در ماجراي گروگانگيري بود و دست كم دو نفر آنها گفتند احمدي نژاد از آنها بازجوئی کرد و به آنها دشنام می داد. اما چند تن از «دانشجویان» سابقی كه در ماجراي اشغال سفارت نقش رهبري داشتند، مي گويند احمدي نژاد در اشغال سفارت نقشی نداشت. جرج بوش همچنين به محمود احمدي نژاد هشدار داد كه آمريكا و اتحاديه اروپا در مورد نگرانيهايشان نسبت به برنامه هاي هسته اي ايران يك پيام واحد و قوي دارند.
مريم احمدي (rm) صدا | (wma) صدا [ 2:49 mins ]


رئيس جمهوري آمريكا در سخنان روز پنجشنبه خواهان پاسخي به اين پرسش شد كه آيا محمود احمدي نژاد، رئيس جمهوري منتخب اسلامي ايران در ماجراي اشغال سفارت آمريكا در تهران در سال 1358 و به گروگان گرفتن اعضاي سفارتخانه دست داشته است يانه.
مريم احمدي (راديو فردا): پنج گروگان سابق سفارت آمريكا در تهران مي گويند: محمود احمدي نژاد يكي از بازيگران اصلي در ماجراي گروگانگيري بوده است و دست كم دو نفر آنها گفته اند كه آقاي احمدي نژاد نقش بازجو را داشته و به آنها فحش مي داده است. اين در حالي است كه چند تن از دانشجوياني كه در ماجراي اشغال سفارت نقش رهبري داشتند، مي گويند محمود احمدي نژاد در اشغال سفارت دخالتي نداشت.

رئيس جمهوري آمريكا در جريان كنفرانس مطبوعاتي خود به مناسبت نشست گروه هشت كه حدود يك هفته ديگر در اسكاتلند برگزار مي شود، به خبرنگاران گفت: قطعا دخالت آقاي احمدي نژاد در ماجراي گروگان گيري سئوالات زيادي را مطرح مي كند؛ با توجه به اين كه مردم در يافتن پاسخ براي سئوالات تا چه حد فعالند، مطمئن هستم كه به زودي پاسخ اين سئوال ها پيدا خواهد شد.

آقاي بوش همچنين به محمود احمدي نژاد هشدار داد كه آمريكا و اتحاديه اروپا در مورد نگرانيهايشان نسبت به برنامه هاي هسته اي ايران يك پيام واحد و قوي دارند. مقام هاي آمريكايي در مورد محمود احمدي نژاد از زماني كه به عنوان رئيس جمهوري آينده ايران انتخاب شد، اظهارنظر چنداني نكردند، گرچه اصل انتخابات را به طور كلي مورد انتقاد قرار داده و آن را غيرعادلانه، غير آزاد و پر از تقلب دانستند.

محمود احمدي نژاد يكي از بنيانگذاران دفتر تحكيم وحدت بين حوزه و دانشگاه بود. محمدعلي سيدنژاد از ديگر اعضاي اوليه دفتر تحكيم وحدت در مصاحبه با راديو فردا گفت: آقاي احمدي نژاد با اشغال سفارت مخالف بود. محسن ميردامادي و عباس عبدي نيز از مخالفت محمود احمدي نژاد با اشغال سفارت آمريكا در تهران سخن گفته اند.

اما دانلد شرر، گروگان سابق مي گويد: محمود احمدي نژاد از دانشجويان تندرو، بسيار ظالم و بيشتر شبيه يك مشاور بود. او و اسكات، ديگر گروگان آمريكايي را سگ و خوك مي ناميد. دانلد شرر مي گويد: وقتي شما در وضعيتي هستيد كه احساس مي كنيد زندگيتان در خطر است، حتي چيزهاي كوچك را به خاطر مي سپاريد. كرينگ هرنينگ، گارد محافظ سفارت آمريكا در تهران هم مي گويد: آقاي احمدي نژاد را به خاطر دارد كه از او بازجويي مي كرده است.



It didnt take long ,just as we expected for our intelletual president to be humilated in world scene.
 
Jan 29, 2004
2,735
0
#19
IRANAIRFORCE said:
reagrdless of how he got his PHD, the fact remains he was a hostage taker and in vilation of international law and this is a no no for a head of state.If this is proven to be true he should resign his post and let a more decent individual represent Iran. His actions harmed Iran and Iranians 25 years ago and his
so called election will do the same.
Calm down Airman!
If violating International Law was any measure Bush should have resigned a long time ago.
So realx and enjoy the ride :D
 

arashinho

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,194
1
Berkeleyish
#20
What almost all these reports fail to mention is that Ahmadinejad was one of the very few (if not they only "daneshjoo") who advocated taking over the Soviet embassy as well as US but his suggestion was overrulled by others. At first glance this fact may portray him as an ultra radical but a closer look at this fact shows that he is not simply an anti west radical but anti "imprialism" period regardless of if it comes from West or East. The fact that he did not trust either of the two superpowers (back then) could also suggest that his political and social view are somewhere in the middle as opposed to the ultra radical that people suggest him to be.
this caught my attention from a few threads back by ashtar. i'm not sure where he got his information from but at least the implication is that ahmadinejad was involved in the planning of the hostage crisis. maybe he wsan't the guy in the picture but he was intimately invovled in the event.