Perrenial Scapegoats Where Are You? (Frontpage Editorial)

Babak G

News Team, ISP Managers Team
Feb 13, 2003
8,923
0
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#21
Thanks for the kind praise.

To be honest, I dont imply we should go back nor do I imply that Branko or Daei should have stayed any longer as both probably overstayed their life expectancy BUT I do question the roots of our problems and unlike what some people kept on uttering, our problems have not ended with the departure of those two. In fact, we still have the same problems, and we realized that there is nobody good enough to even score a damned goal up front for TM, and Branko's much maligned team selection and tactics are being repeated now by one of his biggest critics.

The grass isnt always greener. Judging by how life has turned out for most of the players and coaches involved with TM over the past year, there definitely are some losers but none of them include Branko and Daie, but others must look in the mirror and some critics must swallow some of their BS.

Unfortunately, I dont think that anything will change with a 2 year plan. We need some changes starting from U-11's and the sorts and moving up. Our footballing culture is rooted in mistakes. At the same time, I believe that TM needs a new page and that means many of the old generation should step aside. And obviously, we NEED a top coach and with less EGOS in the team the easier it will be to manage them.
 

westwienmaskulin

News Team, ISP Managers Team, ISP Podcast Team
Oct 18, 2002
36,645
1
41
Av. Aristide Maillol, BCN
#24
Iranians generally make a huge mistake....just because something right now is bad, it doesn't mean what we had before was good.

The key though IMHO, and that's what Babak points to, is that the problems we have keep reoccuring no matter who's in charge. I really hope for a new generation to make it better..although I have doubts.
 
Oct 18, 2002
9,759
52
Sydney, Australia
#25
Iranians generally make a huge mistake....just because something right now is bad, it doesn't mean what we had before was good.

The key though IMHO, and that's what Babak points to, is that the problems we have keep reoccuring no matter who's in charge. I really hope for a new generation to make it better..although I have doubts.
Totally agree mahdi jaan!

Though for me its not about blame anymore. I'm 30 years old now and I've seen the same merry go round no less than a dozen times. After last year's WC fiasco I've become immune to the pain though the disappointment still lingers after such results!

At the same time, I don't think such articles serve any greater purpose than empty the understandable frustrations the author feels. I don't know what Babak's stance was when Branko was coach and frankly I don't care, but to draw parallels with the last campaign where all we achieved was stayed in the hunt for one more game doesn't tell the whole story!

If we rather fancy ourselves an Asian powerhouse, then nothing short of a win should suffice! Be it Branko, GN or Emaam Zamaan on the sidelines!

Mediocrity is still mediocrity no matter how well its sugar coated! But all is not lost. I think you have to go back to 2000 when we last lost a game in 90 minutes in this tournament! PK's have obviously become our achilles heal. With some new faces in the next campaign and a bit of luck we can do it next time! Hell maybe even when we do it it'll be one of the "perennial scapegoats" guiding us through!
 

IranZamin

IPL Player
Feb 17, 2006
3,367
2
#26
Sorry. Can't say I liked the article. It seems not much more than an attempt by a former Branko/Daei supporter to say "See, I told you so".

I fail to see how Daei's success with Saipa is in anyway relevant to his fiasco with TM. That badbakht Enayati holds 4 different scoring records in IPL (most number of goals scored in a single game, most number of seasons finished as top scorer, most number of goals scored in the history of the league, and most number of goals scored in a single season), yet his achievements have always been dismissed because "IPL sucks". Now we're supposed to believe Daei was right all along because he scored 10 goals with Saipa, half of which came off penalties!

I also reject the conspiratorial notion that for some of us criticizing Daei was "personal". Maybe, just maybe, we cared more about our country than one person and couldn't stand watching our national team dedicated to one man chasing records, no matter who that man may be. Frankly if anyone took the issue personally, it was some of his fans who reacted to the slightest criticism as though their family's honor was brought into question!

The contention that the bad shape of our forward line somehow vindicates Daei is also another falsehood. The current forward crisis is what you get when an entire national team becomes dedicated to one guy for 15 years...Plain and simple. Enayati is almost 31. Khatibi and Samereh are pushing 30. At this age, these guys aren't going to become national forwards overnight. But when they were 25 and lighting up the scoreboards they still had a chance. Sadly, back then players like Samereh couldn't get within a mile of TM because Daei had to play 90 minutes...every game...even against Laos! Even when Hashemian came back to TM after a 16 goal season in the Bundesliga, he was shuffled out to the left wing to make room for Daei! Daei's basic attitude was "This is my property...if you want it you'll have to wait till I'm done". Now that he's finally gone we have a group of forwards who aren't even in their prime anymore, trying to fill his shoes. And of course if they come up short it's all their fault, and it's also proof that Daei was harshly treated for wanting to keep the forward position at the ripe old age of 37!!

Give me a break!
 
Feb 11, 2004
372
0
#27
Sorry. Can't say I liked the article. It seems not much more than an attempt by a former Branko/Daei supporter to say "See, I told you so".

I fail to see how Daei's success with Saipa is in anyway relevant to his fiasco with TM. That badbakht Enayati holds 4 different scoring records in IPL (most number of goals scored in a single game, most number of seasons finished as top scorer, most number of goals scored in the history of the league, and most number of goals scored in a single season), yet his achievements have always been dismissed because "IPL sucks". Now we're supposed to believe Daei was right all along because he scored 10 goals with Saipa, half of which came off penalties!

I also reject the conspiratorial notion that for some of us criticizing Daei was "personal". Maybe, just maybe, we cared more about our country than one person and couldn't stand watching our national team dedicated to one man chasing records, no matter who that man may be. Frankly if anyone took the issue personally, it was some of his fans who reacted to the slightest criticism as though their family's honor was brought into question!

The contention that the bad shape of our forward line somehow vindicates Daei is also another falsehood. The current forward crisis is what you get when an entire national team becomes dedicated to one guy for 15 years...Plain and simple. Enayati is almost 31. Khatibi and Samereh are pushing 30. At this age, these guys aren't going to become national forwards overnight. But when they were 25 and lighting up the scoreboards they still had a chance. Sadly, back then players like Samereh couldn't get within a mile of TM because Daei had to play 90 minutes...every game...even against Laos! Even when Hashemian came back to TM after a 16 goal season in the Bundesliga, he was shuffled out to the left wing to make room for Daei! Daei's basic attitude was "This is my property...if you want it you'll have to wait till I'm done". Now that he's finally gone we have a group of forwards who aren't even in their prime anymore, trying to fill his shoes. And of course if they come up short it's all their fault, and it's also proof that Daei was harshly treated for wanting to keep the forward position at the ripe old age of 37!!

Give me a break!
You are the man, kick ass post as always.
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#29
Sorry. Can't say I liked the article. It seems not much more than an attempt by a former Branko/Daei supporter to say "See, I told you so".

I fail to see how Daei's success with Saipa is in anyway relevant to his fiasco with TM. That badbakht Enayati holds 4 different scoring records in IPL (most number of goals scored in a single game, most number of seasons finished as top scorer, most number of goals scored in the history of the league, and most number of goals scored in a single season), yet his achievements have always been dismissed because "IPL sucks". Now we're supposed to believe Daei was right all along because he scored 10 goals with Saipa, half of which came off penalties!

I also reject the conspiratorial notion that for some of us criticizing Daei was "personal". Maybe, just maybe, we cared more about our country than one person and couldn't stand watching our national team dedicated to one man chasing records, no matter who that man may be. Frankly if anyone took the issue personally, it was some of his fans who reacted to the slightest criticism as though their family's honor was brought into question!

The contention that the bad shape of our forward line somehow vindicates Daei is also another falsehood. The current forward crisis is what you get when an entire national team becomes dedicated to one guy for 15 years...Plain and simple. Enayati is almost 31. Khatibi and Samereh are pushing 30. At this age, these guys aren't going to become national forwards overnight. But when they were 25 and lighting up the scoreboards they still had a chance. Sadly, back then players like Samereh couldn't get within a mile of TM because Daei had to play 90 minutes...every game...even against Laos! Even when Hashemian came back to TM after a 16 goal season in the Bundesliga, he was shuffled out to the left wing to make room for Daei! Daei's basic attitude was "This is my property...if you want it you'll have to wait till I'm done". Now that he's finally gone we have a group of forwards who aren't even in their prime anymore, trying to fill his shoes. And of course if they come up short it's all their fault, and it's also proof that Daei was harshly treated for wanting to keep the forward position at the ripe old age of 37!!

Give me a break!
Why is it that every thing you post is brilliant?
 

Babak G

News Team, ISP Managers Team
Feb 13, 2003
8,923
0
Parts Unknown
#31
Actually IranZamin, I was not a Branko-Daei supporter in fact I wanted Branko replaced 1 year before the WC and for Ali Daei to become no more than a squad player, rather than a starter. BUT, to blame the lack of firepower on Daei playing 15 years in the national team, then you gotta be kidding. :) People like Enayati might have 4 scoring records but I have yet to see him produce it at the highest level. Daei led the line for "15 years" because he SCORED goals, however they were. Over 100 of them against poor and half decent opponents. Our frontline of Enayati, Khatibi, and others who have been tried have not managed to score goals. Simple as that. Scoring 10-15 goals in the poor IPL league which has not produced a team that can even reach the last 4 of Asian CL is not a mean feat. If you want to pick those players, then its all relative cause at his late age Daei was still scoring 10 goals a season in that league. You could argue that Daei made the position his property but up until in the last couple of years, I think he had EARNED it.

Go ahead and name me a couple of strikers under 25 in Iran that have the potential to do it for TM? I dont see any.

The reason Branko and Daei post-WC was brought in, was not to suggest that you know what we had it great but to suggest, who are the real LOSERS here. Us, some of the big mouths in our team, the critics, or those two? They have since forgotten and moved on to better things and been successful IMMEDIATELY. What about Mr. GN? Ali Karimi one of the key figures in the tension of the camp in the WC? Or the players who have had a chance since? I still see Branko's team out there. Mostly the same players, and same tactics but with a lower level of tactical astuteness.

Overall, I dont think you got the message of the editorial! Nonetheless thanks for your views. :)
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#32
Babak jan, as far as I remember, you weren't ecstatic about Branko being at the helm but you thought he should be the coach in the WC.

Anyway, it's not such a bad thing. Supporting a coach is not like being affiliated with the Nazis for heaven's sake. But also, bias shouldn't cloud our judgment here. The day Daei played left-wing and scored goals is the day I'd start thinking that way. Or the day Branko won a game comfortably, even against an Oman, would have been the day for this article. The truth isn't as black and white as you portray it my friend.

P.S. say hi to your brother.
 

IranZamin

IPL Player
Feb 17, 2006
3,367
2
#33
Babak, I understood the overall message in your editorial, but it was also clear you were taking the opportunity to settle some old scores. That's the part I addressed in my post.

People like Enayati might have 4 scoring records but I have yet to see him produce it at the highest level.
Babak jan, Enayati wasn't allowed to touch "the highest level" until he was 30 years old!

These guys are being given their first regular starting roles at an age when most international forwards contemplate retirement! Do you think Daei would be the "legend" he is today if he'd become a TM regular in his 30's?

Yes, Daei earned his position when he was in his prime. But even when he was clearly out of his depth in the last couple of years, he and Branko acted as though the 90 minute start was his birthright. There were plenty of opportunities in the last few years to groom a future forward out of the likes of Samereh and Enayati if Daei was less selfish and Branko less stubborn. Hell, in my view Daei's heir apparent was already on the scene. When Hashemian returned to TM, any sane coach would have placed him as the target forward and benched Daei. Branko's persistence in shoving Daei down the team's throat was stupefying, and ultimately suicidal.

I also remember that you were more supportive of Branko than you have admitted here. But having said all that, I agree with the overall jest of your editorial. We are the ultimate losers.
 

Babak G

News Team, ISP Managers Team
Feb 13, 2003
8,923
0
Parts Unknown
#34
Publicly supporting someone who is in a position of leading your country to the WC when you know there is no chance to replace him is something that I will not step back from.

I will ultimately do what I see as beneficial for TM. I will always support whoever plays, or is coaching until the actual event is over. No point in causing division and tension in the camp or in the media.

Just like right now is the time to vent thoughts and feelings rather than before a major tournament.

Not everything is black and white and you cant just say someone is a supporter of Branko or not a supporter...Anyways, Im at work so I cant gather all my thoughts. :)