Pictures: Iranian Navy .

Mr.RayBan

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Oct 18, 2002
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#21

China sold Iran about 40 Hudong fast attack missile boats and more than 80 C-802 anti-ship cruise missiles during the mid-1990s, but agreed to US requests in 1998 to halt further C-802 sales.


In 1996, the China National Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation, a state-run enterprise, delivered 60 C-802 model cruise missiles to Iran. These missiles are mounted on patrol boats for use by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Navy. The China National Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation markets the C-802 in its sales brochure as a missile with `mighty attack capability' and `great firepower' for use against escort vessels such as the U.S.S. Stark. This is the same company that supplied missile technology to Pakistan, a transaction that led the United States Government to impose economic sanctions for violating U.S. law and international non-proliferation guidelines.

In addition, China reportedly is supplying Iran with a land-based version of the C-802 cruise missile. Iran has been constructing several sites along its coastlines to accommodate Transporter-Erector-Launchers (TELs), from which the Iranian Revolutionary Guard can fire these cruise missiles at targets in both the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman. The C-802 model cruise missile provides the Iranian military a weapon with greater range, accuracy, reliability, and mobility than it previously possessed and shifts the balance of power in the Gulf region.

In November 1996, Iran conducted land, sea and air war games in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman and successfully test-fired a C-802 anti-ship cruise missile from one of its patrol boats. Admiral Scott Redd, the former commander-in-chief of the United States Fifth Fleet stationed in the Gulf, said that the C-802 missiles give Iran a `360-degree threat which can come at you from basically anywhere.' Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Robert Einhorn told the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee on April 11, 1997, that the C-802 cruise missiles `pose new, direct threats to deployed United States forces.'

Elaine Sciolino pointed out in her April 20, 1997, article in `The New York Times,' the potential for real conflict between the United States and Iran is significant, `when two enemy navies with vastly different military missions and governments that do not talk to each other are crowded into such a small, highly strategic body of water.' The acquisition by Iran of advanced cruise missiles, like the C-802 model, must be considered a serious threat to stability, given the explosive situation that already exists. Iran's intent seems clear: to challenge the United States for predominance in the Gulf.
 
Mar 2, 2003
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#24
The foundations of Iran's arms industry were laid during the Shah's regime. Broadly speaking, Iran was able to meet the bulk of its light arms and ammunition needs relying on domestic sources in that era, while it also had various repair and maintenace facilities for some of its major armaments.

They say necessity is the mother of all inventions, and undoubtedly, Iran's arms industry did advance significantly from sheer necessity during the Iran-Iraq war and subsequently, as Iran had to cope with threats without a reliable foreign supplier.

Iran's most significant advances have been in missile production. Iran's overall missile force is the largest in the Middle East, and Iran does produce most types of these missiles. Additionally, the latest Shahab 3 missile is considered quite advanced and of indigineous design, although there is speculation that experienced designers from Russia might have helped Iran in this regard.

Iran has also made significant strides in building major armaments, although the production rate for most of these items (MBTs, APCs, aircraft, naval ships) is very low. For instance, the prototype for the Zulfaqar tank was first unvieled in the early 1990s, but "mass production" did not start until recently. Even today, due to constraints in terms of supply of foreign components, limited number of qualified technical personnel, as well as budgetary limitations, the rate of production of the Zulfaqar tank is believed to be between 20 to 40 each year. According to the CISS, Iran might have around 200 Zulfaqar tanks in total deployed in service.

Similarly, while the Azarakhsh plane was first unvieled in 1997, with Iran announcing that it would begin mass production soon, there are currently only 6 such planes reported in service from a total of 30 on order. Other planes, from several model trainers to more advanced projects such as Saeghe and Shafagh, are still years away from adding to Iran's actual military capabilities.

Of course, in terms of maintaining, repairing, updating, and producing parts, ammunition, for its foreign supplied armaments, Iran's achievements are both of current utility and remarkable. The fact that the F-14, a plane that even the US navy has had problems maintaining, still flies for Iran's airforce 25 years after US sanctions and the departure of all US technicians and advisors, is literally amazing.

Overall, given the foundation that has been laid in many of these areas, and the genuine advances made, if Iran is allowed to maintain normal trading contacts with the rest of the world, it will be able to develop a serious military force by the middle of the next decade. At that time, with other advances that are expected, Iran could indeed become a major military power on its own without relying too heavily on foreign sources.
 

Oldman

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Jan 6, 2005
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#25
Ba dorood:

during the Iran-Iraq war and subsequently, as Iran had to cope with threats without a reliable foreign supplier.
COMPLETELY FALSE as Iran bought vast majority of her needs from/through ISRAEL, yes ISRAEL.

Overall, given the foundation that has been laid in many of these areas, and the genuine advances made, if Iran is allowed to maintain normal trading contacts with the rest of the world, it will be able to develop a serious military force by the middle of the next decade. At that time, with other advances that are expected, Iran could indeed become a major military power on its own without relying too heavily on foreign sources.
Very true however this has nothing to do with ISLAMIC RIP-OFF.

Iranians are talented and in fact Islamic Rip-off has held Iran back from making it through to the POWER TABLE.

The designing team of missiles in Iran includes one of my old classmates who can not wait to get out of Iran!!!!

Bottom line is that giving ANY KIND OF CREDIT TO ISLAMIC RIP-OFF IS COMPLETELY FALSE.
 
Mar 2, 2003
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#26
Israel provided Iran a limited number of spare parts, like tires for F-4 phantoms, in the early years of the war (1980-1982). But certainly Iran was not running the entire war effort because of those limited Israeli supplies! I mention this for those who care about making sure historical facts aren't politicized.

Incidentally, I have Anthony Cordesman's book on the military balance in the Persian Gulf, written in the early 1990s. To underline how incredible has been Iran's success in terms of keeping its fleet of Shah era American equipment still flying, let me say that one of the few categorical comments by Cordesman was that it would be impossible for Iran to fly its F-14s by the end of the decade (2000). After all, those F-14s were getting old, the US Navy had problem maintaning these sophisticated aircraft, the supply of black market spare parts was limited because those planes were in operation only by the US Navy, Iran had supposedly canabalized most of them for their spare parts to keep a few flying, etc. The underlying assumption was that it was impossible for Iran to reverse engineer the necessary parts to keep the F-14s working.

Of course, most people seeing the F-14 still flying with Iran's airforce, and with Iran even taking reporters on a tour of the factory that builds F-14 parts (Iran claims that it can produce all its parts domestically today), have quickly realized that this line about everything being a "Nodong" and nothing being really produced domestically cannot be true!

BTW, even Israeli intelligence today admits that the most recent version of the Shahab 3 has is not a copy of the Nodong and that it is instead an entirely different and new design. Although earlier versions arose from a joint projects with the N.Koreans and had major similarities with the Nodoing, to have called even thos versions a Nodong was itself a propaganda slur. Indeed, today even these folks admit Iran is ahead of N.Korea in missile production and technology. Now, they claim the reason is because of Russia and what Iran is doing must be merely assembling kits from the Russians, even though the new version of the Shahab 3 is not a copy of any "known design"!

Iran can do a lot better than it has done under this regime so far. But one thing I know is this: it cannot do better following the kind of people who imagine that Iran and its people are inherently incapable of doing anything right on their own, and that other than spending their oil money to buy what others can build for them, collectively (as opposed to individually) they are not good for anything else.

You send that message out, and you get the kind of mentality that kills initiative, confidence, creativity, as well as funding (money) for indigineous programs. With that mentality, which government in the third world is going to allocate major resources to a group of domestic scientists saying they can build their own planes?

In a recent interview/talk show, one thing Aghazadeh (head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization), said was quite revealing. He mentioned Iran's work on the Arak heavy water reactor. As an aside, because most people imagined it would take at least a dozen years for Iran to build such a reactor, the EU had dropped demands about Iran stopping that project, focusing on more urgent issues such uranium enrichment.

According to Aghazadeh, a group of young Iranian scientists, engineers, and workers had worked day and night (just as they had in other projects) to build this plant. At each turn, of course, Aghazadeh had to justify the big amounts being spent on the nuclear program, as there were those in the government who were skeptical that these young Iranians could build this plant in the first place. Aghazadeh didn't mention this directly, but satellite imagery clearly shows that today the Arak plant is far head of what many had imagined it would be! Aspects of its might be operational in less than a year, which would make it a decade ahead of schedule!
 

Oldman

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Jan 6, 2005
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#28
Ba dorood:

Israel provided Iran a limited number of spare parts, like tires for F-4 phantoms, in the early years of the war (1980-1982). But certainly Iran was not running the entire war effort because of those limited Israeli supplies! I mention this for those who care about making sure historical facts aren't politicized.
TIRES?!!!

Wow, I write the facts from the book by Ari Ben Menasheh (pool khoon) where he provides DETAILS of what military parts/equipment were sold to Islamic Rip-off.

Just TIRES?!!! you got to be kidding?!!!

They purchased 128 C300s of USA leftover in Vietnam through Israel.

Israel bought the junk and sold it to Islamic Rip-off for 10 times after minor repairs.

According to Ari Ben Menasheh, Isarael "slush funds" came about through all of the sales, this was one billion dollars. Just tires wont make that kind of money.

What Islamic Rip-off has been claiming about the war is just as accurate of USA claiming weapons of mass destructions Iraq had!!

SPREAD OF LIES BY THAT ISLAMIC RIP-OFF HAS MADE IS JUST AS BAD AS MAKING THEM.
 

Zir Taaghi

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May 22, 2004
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#29
oldman jan, what do you mean by C-300s ?

now get this everybody:

Iran purchased at least 16 F-4Es, aircrafts in whole, from S.Korea during the war ;)

also, countless aircraft electronics, Phantoms radar upgrades, hardware, and weapons from Israel.. including the infamous anti-personnel cluster bombs that were used extensively against the Iraqi troops and were highly effective..
 

Mr.RayBan

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Oct 18, 2002
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#30
Why is it some have problem with any progress made by iranian. No one claims these weapons were designed by mullahs in Qom, but by iranian engineers.
 

Zir Taaghi

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May 22, 2004
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#31
Mr.RayBan said:
Why is it some have problem with any progress made by iranian. No one claims these weapons were designed by mullahs in Qom, but by iranian engineers.
any technological progress would make us all happy, but the credits must go to the inventors, not the mullahs and the IR regime..

hey, we are Iranians, we're not dumb people.. we have the capability to do magic against all odds, even under the mullahs !
 

Oldman

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Jan 6, 2005
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#32
Ba dorood:

Zir Taghi,

I think the aircraft is a military cargo plane and it could be c-130s which ended up with higher upgrades called C-330.

In good old days, we used to call them GAAV as they were powerful to carry heavy loads.

Ray Ban,

Nobody is against Iranian progress but to claim that Islamic Rip-off has caused it as SOME would!!!

Can you imagine as what Iranians would have done had Islamic Rip-off was not in charge?!!!

Under this brutal system we rank amongst the best in robotics, can you what we could have done in this field with a regime of people by the people?!!
 

Mr.RayBan

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
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#33
Oldman said:
Ba dorood:



Ray Ban,

Nobody is against Iranian progress but to claim that Islamic Rip-off has caused it as SOME would!!!

Can you imagine as what Iranians would have done had Islamic Rip-off was not in charge?!!!

Under this brutal system we rank amongst the best in robotics, can you what we could have done in this field with a regime of people by the people?!!
Hamvatan, let me tell you something. If we didn't have Mullahs and shahs but instead as you said had a "regime of people by the people", we would have been a super power by now.
Damn them all, I was there when shah's gang shot at people in Abadan asking for fresh water, and there again when mullahs send their children to walk on mines in shalamche. Sadly, still no fresh water.
 
Mar 2, 2003
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#34
Zir Taaghi said:
oldman jan, what do you mean by C-300s ?

now get this everybody:

Iran purchased at least 16 F-4Es, aircrafts in whole, from S.Korea during the war ;)

also, countless aircraft electronics, Phantoms radar upgrades, hardware, and weapons from Israel.. including the infamous anti-personnel cluster bombs that were used extensively against the Iraqi troops and were highly effective..
The supplies to Iran from various foreign sources bears no relationship to the needs of a country stuck in a 8 year war with no reliable major suppliers, while the other side had major armaments pouring into Iraq from the Soviet Union and former Warsaw Pact countries, from France, and from many other sources. With all of it financed by hundreds of billions in aid and grants from Arab countries, very little of it requiring black market purchases. The supplies that Iran did receive, mostly through odd deals or in the black market, in no way took way the the need or necessity for Iran to advance its own domestic and indigeneous capabilities.

As for Israeli supplies, not counting what was traded during the so-called "Iran-contra episode", here is from globalsecurity.org:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/intro.htm
Despite official denials, it is believed that Israel has been a supplier of weapons and spare parts for Iran's American-made arsenal. Reports indicate that an initial order for 250 retread tires for F-4 Phantom jets was delivered in 1979 for about US$27 million. Since that time, unverified reports have alleged that Israel agreed to sell Iran Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, radar equipment, mortar and machinegun ammunition, field telephones, M-60 tank engines and artillery shells, and spare parts for C-130 transport planes.
 
Oct 18, 2002
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#35
Oldman said:
Ba dorood:
Zir Taghi,

I think the aircraft is a military cargo plane and it could be c-130s which ended up with higher upgrades called C-330.
I very much doubt that the whole Iranian army had 128 C-130 or an upgraded version any time, and all from Israel? The numbers sound quite exaggerated. Can you provide a link or reference?

I think it is correct to say that in comparison, Iran did not have the financial resources or willing suppliers that Iraq had access to, and thus the Iranian military had to use its own capability to re-design and produce certain military equipment. However, one must note that those advances were limited (with the exception of missile program).

At the same time, Iraq was also advancing its own defence industry. The Iraqi engineers redesigned the Scud missile and were on the verge of reverse engineering the nuclear bomb. That's far more impressive development than anything we did during the war. Of course, the Iraqi engineers had more capital and support than their Iranian counterparts.
 

Zir Taaghi

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May 22, 2004
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#36
Oldman said:
Ba dorood:

Zir Taghi,

I think the aircraft is a military cargo plane and it could be c-130s which ended up with higher upgrades called C-330.
sir, I think you got it wrong with C-130C <--(Model 382C),, there are no C-330s...

and that report (Iran received 128 aircrafts!) is just false.
 

Zir Taaghi

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May 22, 2004
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#37
deerouz said:
I very much doubt that the whole Iranian army had 128 C-130 or an upgraded version any time, and all from Israel? The numbers sound quite exaggerated. Can you provide a link or reference?
we had 32 to begin with.. out of which we've lost at least 10-15 due to crashes or to enemy as well as friendly fire during the war..


2 to 4 of them were eqquipped with advanced radar system playing the role of mini AWACS, they were called "Khofash".. one was allegedly shot down by Iraq, however it remains a claim and not confirmed.
 
Mar 2, 2003
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#38
deerouz said:
I think it is correct to say that in comparison, Iran did not have the financial resources or willing suppliers that Iraq had access to, and thus the Iranian military had to use its own capability to re-design and produce certain military equipment. However, one must note that those advances were limited (with the exception of missile program).
I don't agree that they were all that limited. The fact that very old systems are still flying and operating in Iran, despite limted availability of supplies, proves otherwise.

You also mentioned that Iran has only produced prototypes so far in terms of tanks. That is an exaggeration. There are at least a few hundred Z-1, Z-2 and Z-3 tanks in service right now and there numbers are growing given the "limited mass production" of these tanks.

deerouz said:
At the same time, Iraq was also advancing its own defence industry. The Iraqi engineers redesigned the Scud missile and were on the verge of reverse engineering the nuclear bomb. That's far more impressive development than anything we did during the war. Of course, the Iraqi engineers had more capital and support than their Iranian counterparts.
Iraq was way ahead of Iran in missile production in the 1980s, as well as in its nuclear program. But there is a huge difference between a country like Iraq making advances being able to (for the most part) openly engage in trade with foreign countries, supplied by them, having German, French, Russian experts, and awash in money. And a country like Iran, which was largely a pariah for much of the world, having poor relations with both the US and Nato countries, the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries, and most of the Arab league.

There is a good article that I will post about Iran's armament industry that goes beyond the dimissive attitude the prevades reports that rely on Cordesman and Pipe. Those two are behind most reports about Iran, and while they have to adjust some of their comments, at the end their accounts are clearly biased both based on their political affiliations as well as due to their desire to keep a semblance of credibility having been so dismissive about Iran's abilities in the past.
 

Zir Taaghi

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May 22, 2004
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#39
Simply Ken said:
You also mentioned that Iran has only produced prototypes so far in terms of tanks. That is an exaggeration. There are at least a few hundred Z-1, Z-2 and Z-3 tanks in service right now and there numbers are growing given the "limited mass production" of these tanks.
the term "Hundreds" is an exaggeration too.

Iran had extreme difficulty in producing a reliable, strong yet light enough armor for its indigenously built tanks. the problem was solved by Japanses Toyota .. yes Toyata !

we keep hearing about Zulfaghars and how they're being mass-produced in IR usual propagandas, yet no more than 2 of the tanks were ever shown in a public military show or a manouvre...
 
Mar 2, 2003
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#40
Although there are some errors in this article, and some of the facts and figures aren't accurate, I still recommend it. It at least attempt a broad overview of the "military industrial complex" in Iran. You might want to read the entire article, but here are extended excerpts from it.


Here is what they'll find in Iran
http://www.republic-news.org/archive/97-repub/97_kay.htm
...
The Persian military industrial complex
...
Iran's military industrial complex is almost self-sufficient and vertically integrated. Its explosives and chemical weapons are petroleum-derived and hence are an easy spin-off of its sprawling commercial petrochemical infrastructure. Metal fabricating and smelting have become major export industries and are fed by a domestic mining industry yielding 11 million tonnes of iron ore per year along with substantial amounts of copper, lead, zinc, manganese, chrome and coal. Iran's steel industry is by far the largest in the Middle East. Minerals are shipped from mine to smelter to foundry to factory to army base along a growing network of state-owned railways.
...
...
Iran's main battle tank is the “Zulfiqar” developed by the “Construction Crusade,” an arm of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards. ...The Zulfiqar is a 40 tonne vehicle with a 1,000 hp diesel engine and a 120 mm smooth bore gun. For the Zulfigar/T-72 fleet, the Ammunition Group of the Iranian Defence Industries Organization mass produces both a standard High Explosive 23 kilogram tank shell firing a three kilogram warhead out the muzzle at 850 meters per second. They can hit targets 10 kilometres away.

The Ammunition Group also manufacture volumes of faster, lighter anti-armour warheads with a muzzle velocity of 910 meters per second—effective against every American military vehicle with the possible exception of the M1A1 Ambrams tank, to a range of 2 km. Iran also possesses several hundred older lighter 105 mm T-72Z tanks which are Soviet-built units given a substantial upgrade at the Shahid Kolah Dooz Industrial Complex's tank modernizing facility. Production of these is complete, however they are still in the process of placing explosive-reactive armour-packs onto the older units. This armour consists of bricks that explode outward when impacted by heavy ordnance.

In the late 1990s Iran began production of the “Tosan” line of rapid response tanks armed with heavy calibre machine guns and 90 mm guns. Iran's operational tank fleet numbers around 2,000 units. ...

One of the Persian militarist's prize achievements is the “Boraq” armoured personnel carrier which was conceived during the Iran-Iraq war but did not roll off the assembly lines of the Shahid Kolahdooz Complex until 1997. The Boraq is a thick-skinned, 13 tonne, fully amphibious tracked vehicle with seating for a crew of three and eight soldiers and carrying a fifty calibre machine gun on top. Other variants carry a 120 mm mortar or an anti-tank missile launcher. The Boraq is a marriage between the Russian BMP-1 hull and engine and the American (United Defense) M-113 wheel and track system. The Iranians still have over 300 BMP-1s in service while the US technology dates back to the days of the Shah. Fully loaded, the vehicle can travel 65 kph for 500 kilometres. While the Boraq is still in production and used in active service, the Iranians are also bringing two newer models of APC online, all advertised for export.

One of the Iranian military's greatest threats are its self-propelled howitzers. The Shahid Industrial Complex manufactures two models of self-propelled howitzer, a 36 tonne 155mm, and a 17.5 tonne 122 mm. All parts of these weapon systems are locally produced using Iranian steel including their 850 horsepower diesel engines and their 8 gear transmissions. The 155 mm “Thunder 2” self-propelled howitzer has inch-thick welded steel armour requiring a near direct hit to destroy it. The Thunder 2 can travel at 65 kph with a range of 450 km and can fire four, several-pound, rocket-assist high explosive projectiles per minute to a distance of 30 km. The Thunder 2 is a knock-off of the American (United Defense Industries) M109 of which 440 were sold to the Shah, many still operational.

The Thunder 2 has been in quantity production for several years. The self-propelled fleet is supplemented by a large number of towed howitzers, both 155 mm and 122 mm, manufactured by Hadid Armament Industries Group. These weapons are towed into battle by 6 x 6 ten tonne trucks which can also carry substantial amounts of ammunition.

The Iranian army can field three to four thousand artillery pieces; over one thousand of those are armoured and self propelled and can drive from the Iraqi border to within range of Baghdad in 90 minutes. During combat they emit heavy camouflaging smoke. The Americans have only a few hundred field artillery pieces, and in the crucial artillery-to-artillery cannonades, the vulnerability of open air, towed artillerymen to shrapnel fire makes the armoured self-propelled King. The Persians have fifty times what the Americans in Iraq have in terms of armoured self-propelled artillery.

Iran manufactures two dozen models of artillery rocket. These weapons carry no inertial guidance systems and are simply aimed with standard artillery arc and angle calculations and thus are not very accurate. They can hit large targets such as cities, military bases, and large concentrations of enemy force but not moving ships or specific buildings. They range in size from the 12 tube 105 mm launchers towed behind pick-up trucks that ripple-fire rockets with 6 kg warheads to a distance of 8 km, to the “Zelzal 2” which requires a 3 axle Mercedes truck to carry a single round.

Manufactured by Shahid Baghari Industries, the Zelzal 2 can launch a 600 kg high explosive bomb to a distance of 200 kilometres. About 90% of US forces and Western civilians in Iraq are within 200 km of Iranian territory. They could hit Camp Bushmaster near Najaf, Camp Anaconda north of Tikrit, or Baghdad's Green Zone with sustained volleys of high-speed 1,200 lb. bombs made of explosives several times more volatile than TNT. Centcom HQ in Qatar, British facilities near Basra, and numerous Saudi oil fields and fuel storage facilities are also within range of the Zelzal 2. The Zelzals have been in volume production for years and although offered for export, there are no known buyers. It's a cut-throat business.

A few years ago, attention was focused on the Shahab missile programme, with few caring about the Zelzals. Zelzal production was at a lower rate. Zelzals can't hit Israel or, at the time, any significant numbers of Western assets. Now Centcom has a quarter million uniformed personnel within 200 km of the Iranian frontier and an equal number of Western civil servants and mercenaries alongside them. ...

Persian military industries (Aerospace Industries Organization Tehran) also manufacturers a copy of the US TOW anti-tank missile which they call the “Toophan.” The fabled Iran-Contra affair in the 1980s consisted of Ollie North and friends delivering thousands of TOWs to Iran just in time to stop dead a dangerous Iraqi armoured advance into Iranian territory. Having learned first hand the effectiveness of the TOW, Iran now manufactures enough for its own purposes and sells the surplus on the international market. (They are also supplying Hezbollah with Toophans).

The Toophan 2 is a 1.5 metre, 19 kilogram tube-launched missile carrying a four kilogram explosive charge. It is connected to a joy stick by four kilometres of dental-floss-thin wire. It hits speeds of 310 metres a second and can punch through over two feet of solid steel. They have recently developed a laser-beam-riding version of the same missile. The same plant also manufactures a Soviet designed anti-tank missile.