Playing legioners at TM ....

[peyz]

Where in the hell is it written you HAVE to keep the legioners for 90 minutes of the game, irrespective of how crappy they play?

I am referring to Teymoorian’s string of horrible games.

Don’t mistake me, I am very happy with him going to the old blighty and all, and playing in their premiership.
But that shd not mean he is given card blanche and free rein in each game and shdnt be subbed out.

Take a look at his past few games for TM.
They’ve been progressively getting worse.

Yes, he shined at the WC.
But that is becoz we were facing strong and highly adventurous teams, and we NEEDED better defensive mids to handle that world class pressure.

His game is basically a destructive one, where he reads the opponent’s game and tries to intercept and destroy their move.
Fine.
Job well done at the WC.

But here, in asia? Against third rate asian teams?
Especially when he is pushed down the right side, often times?
Horrible.
Absolutely sad performances.
All of them !

The guy has no offensive flair. No creativity and imagination for an attacking style of play.

So my question is why do we use him constantly and totally, for each and every game, even against pisspoor oppositions?
He aint helping the team, whatsoever.
Nekounam is perfectly capable of handling such teams all by himself.
And for Andranik’s slot, we can use a good POSITIVE playmaker like Shoja’ee, Mobaali, … hell, even Rajab-zadeh would do.
Theis would definitely HELP the team in its creativity.

I say GN takes a good long look at Teymoorian, post-WC.
And finds out what has been keeping his team back.

 

[TPC]

I think one problem has been that Mobali has not performed well in the last few games. Secondly, it seems our coaches do not believe in our defensive abilities. They have not been able to find a suitable left defensive players for sometime now. In one word their stragedy is to NOT loose first. We have not had a decent midfielder with good ball distribution since Karim Baghari for a while now. I don't think Karimi is able to cut that for us in that position, to me Karimi will do good behind strikers such as Hashemian, has good passing ability but cannot control the midfield (a player like Ballack, for example). However, you are right, we should have our other players play this weak team. If it was me I would have send under 23 team, to get more experience and I bet, you would have seen a better score line.

 

[Amir]

i agree with you, he should be benched, nekounam was enough, especially for today's game why the fuck did we have to use 2 defensive midfielders, just because of who they are..

 

[Dr Strangemoosh]

The guy has no offensive flair. No creativity and imagination for an attacking style of play.

yes. i am very worried about this - i dont think ive seen him once on the ball pushing forwatd and knowing what to do. His football "intelligence quotient" is possibly the lowest of an tm central midfielder in the last 2 decades.

fortunately he makes it up with superhuman endurance and passion - but if he is exposed it always looks embarrassing. i dont know how many counterattacks he's messed up by stalling and not knowing what the heck to do.

 

[raminio05]

yes. i am very worried about this - i dont think ive seen him once on the ball pushing forwatd and knowing what to do. His football "intelligence quotient" is possibly the lowest of an tm central midfielder in the last 2 decades.

fortunately he makes it up with superhuman endurance and passion - but if he is exposed it always looks embarrassing. i dont know how many counterattacks he's messed up by stalling and not knowing what the heck to do.

Maybe this is why hes getting playing time, to improve this aspect of his team and to gell with the team better. If this is the reason, this was the best game for him to do so in. We knew we were going to win, so GN did not have to alter his team to be successful. He dicided to play the regulars so they can get used to eachother more.

 

[sirabi]

The criticism might be true, although to be fair, I don't think he's had that long to show his offensive game. I don't think his offensive game is as bad as it's being made out, he just needs to fine tune a few aspect of his possession play, and he should get that at Bolton. The reason I think GN is playing him is to cement that he is set in TM for purposes of playing in Europe and to keep him fit because he's not playing much in England. It's actually one of the things I think he has been very smart about.

 

[Kaz]

Actually at club level in Iran he showed he had great creativity and flair. He'd run the ball from his own half to the opponents and was very good. In TM I'm sure his role is different and he is playing to that role. The problem was last night we had too many right-sided midfielders, a centre-mid as a left-mid, and not much in terms of direct feed to the forwards. Teymourian played poor and should have been subbed. But I remember back a few games ago where Karimi was poor and was subbed, yet we had an outrage here because people thought even if he is poor he should stay on. So it's a kind of damned if you do or don't situation depending how good the sub plays.

If we're going to play two defensive mids, they shouldn't pair next to each other but one in front of the other. Pairing them next to each other is where we just pollute the midfield and slow our passing. For teams like C-T however, we shouldn't need to use two defensive-mids to begin with.

 

[oghabealborz]

overall I would have prefared all our legioners taking a rest for this game and we played with our second team .

I am pretty certain they would have won with a better goal margin.
Simply because they would have been more eager and determined to prove themsleves .
we did not play well as a team cause the opponent was so weak and our players tried to do everything on their own .

Against such a weak side ,we should not have aproached the game in such a hurried way ,keeping possesion of the ball with one touch football should have been our main objective ,

attacking a 10 men defence around their box is hard even against a a weak team like taiwan ,we should have dragged them out of their dungen and find the right timing to play the killer ball ,we had no patience and that is bad for a team like ours with our experience .

Teymoorian is looking to bulid up his national games ,I think javad could have taken the rest (he has nothing to prove ) .

 

[artavile]

Dear Pyez, I found the title of your thread a little misleading! I thought you were going to equally diss all the so-called ligoniers as well as the magmt team that keeps on using Kia, Neko, Rezae, Karim etc.for every crappy game. If we can’t beat Taipe without those players, we should not even be in the Asian cup, period. :-ohno:

It seems you singled out Ando while I don’t think others are any better.

 

[peyz]

dear artavile,

I agree it sounded a bit pointed towards teymoorian, but the crux of the issue is we shd not accept any damn weak performance just becoz the guy is a legioner, and the coach shd not take it as an obligation to play the fellow.

as for others, well, karimi is getting a bit of a stick nowadays ... and deservedly too.
so no need to go there.

Kia.
on this guy, I beg to differ.
he has done plenty of stuff for us and has shown he can and will perform when the time comes, for me to target him over this issue.
while I agree, GN shdnt have called any of kia, rahman, karimi, teymoorian and nekounam for this game , I still cannot really pick on guys like kia or nekounam or rahman , as they have PROVEN themselves in the past.

teymoorian has to PROVE himself that he is able to get out of this rut, or change ( adapt ) his game to what is needed at TM, or ... etc.
until then, whatever games we have to judge him are:
1- WC games, where his expertise and style was NEEDED.
2- post-WC games, where he has let himself and us down with his unimaginative style of play, as his expertise has scrasely been needed.

mind you, during the pre-WC days, I used to say the same about Zandi.
he wasnt really contributing to the team.
now, some of that could be attributed to branko's illogical wrong-positioning of him on the left.
but that never took anything away from his bad performances.
and I did discuss this issue too.

all in all, I mean to say our coaches shd NOT base their line ups on "names" and "region of play" solely. something that branko used to do.
if we find an IPL player in better form and more useful ( in teymoorian's and taiwan-game's case, rajab-zadeh for example ), I say why not play him, rather than that "name" .

recently, kia, on his first stint as the captain , got subbed out.
so has karimi, and VH .

I just dont think a coach shd keep them on after bad displays, just becoz they have come from afar or play in europe.
not enough reason for me.

 

[nakhl]

i think there is also another dimension to the issue of legioners call up.

NOT ONE of the legioners saw the need to go to Taiwan.
NOT ONE wanted to go.
Qn forced and pressured each and every1 to go.
He threatened to set aside Karimi if he did not go.
All legioners were extremely unhappy for being called up for the game.
They felt they are being used by Qn for his own personal advantage.

Every1 knows that our IPL select could do the job easily and even better.
But why calling up the legioners? We have no major tournament comming up
anytime soon, so what would be the purpose of exposing the legioners to harms way?

Qn set a bogus and absurd priority of winning the group which means
absoluetely nothing to us. He did so to be able to call up the legioners
with this excuse. Why? Coz he wanted to score big on Taiwan (like the
Maldives game) and gain some recognition and prestigue for himself and
consolidate himself at the coaching job. His selfish plan backfired. Legioners
performed poorly in a badly coached game and as a result were very disappointed
for the forced call up as well.

Now, what is Qn gonna do next? Call up the legioners against Korea U-23?!

Folks,

We need a coach and until we get one we should disassemble TM and use
U-23 instead. Qn is nothing but an opportunist who has done harms to
TM. We should let him go back to his SS and ACL and hire a real coach.
Then, we can assemble back the team with new leadership for the Asian Cup.
We won't get anywhere with this guy, ever.
.

 

[peyz]

i think there is also another dimension to the issue of legioners call up.

NOT ONE of the legioners saw the need to go to Taiwan.
NOT ONE wanted to go.
Qn forced and pressured each and every1 to go.
He threatened to set aside Karimi if he did not go.
All legioners were extremely unhappy for being called up for the game.
They felt they are being used by Qn for his own personal advantage.

Every1 knows that our IPL select could do the job easily and even better.
But why calling up the legioners? We have no major tournament comming up
anytime soon, so what would be the purpose of exposing the legioners to harms way?

Qn set a bogus and absurd priority of winning the group which means
absoluetely nothing to us. He did so to be able to call up the legioners
with this excuse. Why? Coz he wanted to score big on Taiwan (like the
Maldives game) and gain some recognition and prestigue for himself and
consolidate himself at the coaching job. His selfish plan backfired. Legioners
performed poorly in a badly coached game and as a result were very disappointed
for the forced call up as well.

Now, what is Qn gonna do next? Call up the legioners against Korea U-23?!

Folks,

We need a coach and until we get one we should disassemble TM and use
U-23 instead. Qn is nothing but an opportunist who has done harms to
TM. We should let him go back to his SS and ACL and hire a real coach.
Then, we can assemble back the team with new leadership for the Asian Cup.
We won't get anywhere with this guy, ever.
.

I agree with you ala jan.

but it's uncanny, ala jan.
the exact words were described and expressed when branko used to drag all the legioners for meaningless games and useless friendlies like panama, lybia, korea C team, macedonia's youth team ...... , and yet some friends didnt accept this !

all we have to do to relive those times and those words, is change :
- "QN" wth "branko"
- "winning the group" with "meaningless friendly"
- "taiwan" with "laos"
- "korea U23" with "macedonia youth team"
..... and VOILA! ... we have the EXACT words uttered a year or so ago, about branko's wrong approach !
and wasnt such wimpy acts exactly what some ppl based their absurd claim of "branko being the best coach in Iran's history, due to such un-beaten record" ?
well, what goes around, comes around, my friend.

dammn !
in khar mireh, ye khare dige miyad !


It's amazing how "history repeats itself" !!
you gotta be fair.
the very same thing applied to that time too, and yet many didnt agree !

 

[sirabi]

NOT ONE of the legioners saw the need to go to Taiwan.
NOT ONE wanted to go.
Qn forced and pressured each and every1 to go.
He threatened to set aside Karimi if he did not go.
All legioners were extremely unhappy for being called up for the game.
They felt they are being used by Qn for his own personal advantage./quote]

Nakhl, I strongly disagreed with this ridiculous selection, but please prove or back up these claims you are making with some sources. How do you know this stuff? Are you in contact with the legionnaires? How is it that they were all pressured, yet Hashemian asked not to go and ended up not going? If you don't have proof, these are some pretty bold claims to make.