Professional Sandis Khors!

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Oct 18, 2002
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Just one clarification: expressing different viewpoints does not always mean that they are equally correct. very often one view is right and the other is wrong. But once one side feels that he has logically demonstrated the flaw in the other side's argument, he could then trust the readers judgment.

There is nothing wrong with calling people on the opinions they express; that is also an important part of freedom of speech. But repeating the same points do not really advance the discussion. At some point each side could say: sorry, I think I have shown why I think you are wrong, and I trust readers to see my point. Let's agree to disagree and don't waste our time any more.
 

khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
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This thread is about that photo-op and the people who attended it. If you have something to say in defense of any of them, feel free, as long as you remember that Shirin Ebadi and Mammad Reza Pahlavi were not there either.
IZ jan,

I don't think you're being fair to what ehsghi has tried to say. This what he wrote in post # 182:

eshghi said:
This thread started by posting pictures of certain individuals attanding AN's dinner. Fine! Even in my eyes, reasonable evidence at least to suspect them. Then videos were posted of, for exmaple, Sepahpoor as supporting evidence. Pretty damning evidence. No reaction from me at all. All of a sudden, however, people bring up Reza Aslan and Trita Parsi into it. That's when alarm bells started ringing for me, and I felt compelled to react. Not that I have any particular sympathy for or against these two, but because the evidence tying them to Sandis-khori is shaky at best if it even exists.
Do you really disagree with his point here? None of us has any sympathy for those who attended the dinner but faced with the historically prevalent attitude among Iranians who pass judgment as easily as they blink, some were alarmed where this was going. Names were thrown around at the drop of a hat; I didn't see you object to those. You had people here say that why does it matter if someone was wrongly accused because that's the price we need to pay for liberation. Doesn't that eerily familiar shame of an excuse send a cold shiver down your spine? Doesn't that bother you or footballeirani? How come you didn't react to that injustice the same way you reacted to esghi's perceived one? Isn't it that in trying to prove a point you ignored another?
 

eshghi

News Team
Oct 18, 2002
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AghAyoon,

First of all, whatever you think, I could care less about "winning an argument"; only to discuss the issue. To me, this was not only about people attending a dinner, but much more. It's a multi-faceted, multi-dimensional issue, and if it took another 20 pages to address its various acpects, so be it, because it was worth discussing.

But discuss the issue not the person discussing it. You disagree with me? Fine! You dislike my argumnets? It's your prerogative. But if you're going to judge how this thread regressed into personal attacks, you can't play this diplomatic, stay-in-the-middle game. There were at least a dozen people here who disagreed with me, weren't there? How many of them did I make personal remarks about? How many did I mock, ridicule, call silly or "khodforoosh"? If you conducted your argument with reason and dignity, you got it back. And it's not like this is an isolated incident. I have a 12 year history of condcut here.

I repeatedly asked FI and IZ to stop making things personal; here, in another thread, and in PM. Every time I asked, they escalated things further. How many times does one have to ask before patience boils over? To add insult to injury, FI comes back with this seemingly innocent, but very rhetorical question about what I think about last year elections?! One has to be either a complete idiot for "asking" that, or know full well what he is doing. I know he is no idiot, so it's the latter. If he had called my mother, I wouldn't be so offended. And when I react in uncharacteristic anger, clearly taking offense to his remark, instead of a simple "sorry if I offended you", one accuse me of "fahashi" and the other tells me not to act like a victim!! ajaaaaab! It's like someone sticking something up your ass and then telling you not to scream in pain and act like a victim. In the 12+ years I have been here, I have had a lot of disagreements with a lot of people. Never have I been so insulted. Never this distraught.

jenAbe FI. A private message is supposed to be private. But since you did bring it up here clearly in an attempt to further make me "look bad" and damage my reputation, I will post it word-by-word for everyone to see and judge for themselves.

Before I depart all of this foor good, I have one last word for the rest of you. You think "staying quiet" about these few individuals is deplorable? So is staying quiet while one of your own is unjustly and mercilessly subjected to unprovoked personal attacks, offensive remarks, and unfounded accusation (explicitly or implicitly)! And no, I am not "acting like a vicitim". It's not about me. It never was. It's about the implications of that mentality; its impact on all of us; on the future we profess to strive for. Today, they railroad one person for having a different opinion. Tomorrow, it will be "you".

to khAh az sokhanam pand gir khAh malAl.

shab o roozetoon khosh!

Here is my PM to FI for those interested.

boro jamesh kon maskhareh!!

That was no "question". It was a comment that you knew I will find insulting. What are you, blind? Was this the only thread I wrote in the last few months? Did you not know how actively I followed news from Iran and posted it? Did you not know how I felt about the events of last year?

pas cherA khodeto dAri be kharriat mizani?

Is winning a fucking argument so significant to you to implicate me? Fine! You won the argument. What are going to do about your soul? What are you going to do about your vojdAn, if you have any?

Instead of backing off when you see I take insult to your comment, you come back with these comments?!! beh jAye mazert-khAhi for your insulting "question" I found so offensive tAzeh do ghort o nimet ham bAghieh!!

You stung me like a poisonous snake, now you are sitting there looking all innocent wondering why I am screaming in pain?! veghAhat ham haddi dAreh.

What do you think you gained by this? What? You won an argument? Congrats! But don't go basking in glory! You also lost a friend!
 
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beystr 2.0

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Jul 9, 2006
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Eshghi jon narahat nasho..IMO.your concern was noble and well worth the argument/discussion..and u know..I'd say we all will be a bit more careful in future reg. this isuue which if I had to speak for eshghi is..

will these kind of individuals receive a fair trial in Iran in a post IRI Iran..?
 
Jun 18, 2005
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Eshghi I am glad you posted your private message to me in public so that everyone else could see what a classless person you are.

and you got one thing right. This was not about you and it never was. You tried to make this about you. It was "you" who suggested that perhaps because you had a different opinion we thought you were a "sandis khor" too. I never said that. In fact no one else did either.

Is not it ironic that in spite of all the evidence presented in this thread you had a hard time condemning those who attended this dinner party and yet without any evidence or proof you accused the rest of us of thinking that you were a Sandis Khor or somehow you were the victim here?

After you said that you agree with AN on the nuclear policies I asked whether you believed the elections were stolen. Very politely I may add. What did you do in return? Shoro kardi be fohsh dadan. and you are the victim here?
 

masoudA

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Oct 16, 2008
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Eshghi jon narahat nasho..IMO.your concern was noble and well worth the argument/discussion..and u know..I'd say we all will be a bit more careful in future reg. this isuue which if I had to speak for eshghi is..

will these kind of individuals receive a fair trial in Iran in a post IRI Iran..?
Amoo bey - what trial? Nobody can and will ever be tried for attending a luncheon, AN's or anyone elses. What you are reffering to is courts for IR officials, etc.

As for the Sandis Khors, this is the trial - in the court of Eyranian public concience. Be as fair as you wish - but What is your verdict? Eshghi has yet to give a simple answer.

As meehandoost said, It is surprising that we are even debating this........what is to debate?
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
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Mjunik
After you said that you agree with AN on the nuclear policies I asked whether you believed the elections were stolen. Very politely I may add. What did you do in return? Shoro kardi be fohsh dadan. and you are the victim here?

If someone asks you very politely whether your mother is a whore, do you also answer very politely back?

I'm asking this very politely btw.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
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Shame on ISP for having mahdi on their team and as manager - shame!!!!

Eshghi and Mahdi - you don't have to answer my question - but I am seriously begining to wonder - do you make any $ from ISP?
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
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Shame on ISP for having mahdi on their team and as manager - shame!!!!

Eshghi and Mahdi - you don't have to answer my question - but I am seriously begining to wonder - do you make any $ from ISP?

Masoud and his conspiracy theories again.
 

Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
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Baba Massoud vaghti aadam vaasat Thankyou mizane dige posteto avaz nakon chon thankyou man faghat vaase oon ghesmate avali bood ke dar morede oon joojeh Mahdi neveshti. Dollar mollar chiye aakhe ghorboone sheklet.

The problem with that Mahdi guy is that he is just a joojeh maashini, taa hamin parirooz farsi nemitoonest sohbat kone, haalaa miaad saresho too har aakhori mikone, mikhaad too har bahsi sherkat kone dar soorati ke hich goone etelaai az jaame o siaasate iran nadaare. Hameye postaash too in thread va aslan kollan to har threadi ro jam koni bezaari roo ham dah shey nemiarze. In aakharin postesham ye jafange birabtiye eyne baghiye jafangiaatesh too in forum.
 
Aug 27, 2005
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Lets Assume what you are saying is correct However, at the same time, I like to see what have guys like Reza Aslan and Tirita have done in last year or so in defending the rights of minority prisoners, political prisoners, Student activist and human right prisoners in Iran !!!

I am not aware of any interview or article by these two that have critisized Iranian government of human right violations openly and showed their support for these people.

If someone has this information, please put it forward since I like to read it.
Shahin jAn,
I did my best to keep my distance from this thread, still you managed to drag me into it.:D
I don't know or care about Aslan or Parsi but I assure you, you are expecting too much from them. They never acted or pretended to be political activists bending backward to rescue Iran and Iranian from the jaws of cleric Zahaaks. NIAC's primary doctrine is maintaining, promoting and advancing interest of Iranian community in US. That is all.
Now if once in a while they come in public and condemn IRI and cronies or any statement along those lines that would be their personal choice and opinion, not from an activist or a political capacity. JMHO;)
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
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Well..Masoud jon... I don't think anybody including eshghi would question the poor taste ( if nothing else).or huge naivity of these people..however in a post IRI situation it could all start with a public perception..and outside of the 300 or so individuals who have been referred to even in local papers ( not by name) as the ones that practically own the country and do as they wish...many would be in this grey area..
 
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beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
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U & I know that the people who r infact supporting or benefiting from these viruses...r mostly faceless and will not be caught on camera easily ,especially in a forum like NY or UN...and we just might be overly reactive to those at the dinner..
 
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Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
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Mjunik
Shame on ISP for having mahdi on their team and as manager - shame!!!!
Well tell ISP to kick me out. I haven't done any work for ISP news for ages anyway. Go ahead.

Eshghi and Mahdi - you don't have to answer my question - but I am seriously begining to wonder - do you make any $ from ISP?
Yes, tons of. Why? You want some?


Medi, that's very Inappropriate and uncalled for.
Why? The questions are more or less on the same level and I asked it very politely. He asked eshghi very politely whether the elections were stolen. I asked him what he would say to someone who asked him very politely whether his mother was a whore. Hey, the question is asked very politely.
 
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Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
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Why? The questions are more or less on the same level and I asked it very politely. He asked eshghi very politely whether the elections were stolen. I asked him what he would say to someone who asked him very politely whether his mother was a whore. Hey, the question is asked very politely.
You dont think the election was stolen?
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
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Mjunik
You dont think the election was stolen?
I'm not the topic of discussion. It's eshghi. he asked eshghi very politely whether the elections were stolen and he put an emphasis on the question being asked very politely.

Now, I just ask him what he would say to someone, who asked him very politely whether his mother was a whore. I don't ask him that, I'm asking him what he would say to that person that would ask him that.

I don't understand the problem at hand...it's a hypothetical scenario.

Someone asks you very politely whether your mother is a whore. Do you smack the shit out of that person, or do you not care and answer politely back because he asked you very politely?

Now the same is with eshghi. He is asked very politely whether he thinks the elections were stolen. Do you want him to reply politely back or should he answer the way he did?
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
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I'm not the topic of discussion. It's eshghi. he asked eshghi very politely whether the elections were stolen and he put an emphasis on the question being asked very politely.

Now, I just ask him what he would say to someone, who asked him very politely whether his mother was a whore. I don't ask him that, I'm asking him what he would say to that person that would ask him that.

I don't understand the problem at hand...it's a hypothetical scenario.

Someone asks you very politely whether your mother is a whore. Do you smack the shit out of that person, or do you not care and answer politely back because he asked you very politely?

Now the same is with eshghi. He is asked very politely whether he thinks the elections were stolen. Do you want him to reply politely back or should he answer the way he did?
forget about all that crap.. i wanna know what you think..

do you think the election was stolen?
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
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Mjunik
forget about all that crap.. i wanna know what you think..

do you think the election was stolen?

I don't agree with AN on any point, so my answer is clear(it's a yes btw. they were). If I agreed with AN on any point and you asked me that, I would ask you the same question...
 
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