Rafsanjani fooled our people again..

[Niloufar]

Even forgetting about possible cheating in the recounts, Rafsanjani proved one more time he'll get to the power he wants, no matter what..

Few yrs ago, our ppl didnt even voted enough for him in Parlimant election and this time he tried the best way to fool voters to get into Presidency.

Running against probably one of the most extremist hardliners in the country, he knows he'll get a great number of votes from Reformists just to avoid seeing Ahmadinejad in power + lots of ppl scared of losing that small freedom they have gained so far. So he is all of a sudden, 'Angel of Freedom' for our ppl..There was no way he could have slip through easily if he was running against Moein.

Whether Rafs or AhmadiNejad is more benefitial for Bush and neo-cons is another subject to talk about but Rafsanjani getting into power will definetly strengtheng the govt's power and length of survival. so we shouldnt buy the idea of govt supporting AhmadiNejad as President, cuz in fact AhmadiNejad will cause them the collape of the regime(from within or a foreign attack) with his extreme ideas.
Very similar to Pres election in 1376 between Khatami and Nategh Nouri.but our ppl dont learn, do they?!

If thats what our ppl wished for(same freedom for longer period vs hardship for shorter period and collapse the regime!), when they voted for him(and will most prob vote for him in the 2nd round) then from now on not only we shouldnt feel for our ppl facing so many problems in Iran, but we also have to make them stand responsible for the consequences of their actions/votes.
Nevertheless, they have to practice Democracy!

Democracy is not only having 7 candidates in the election, or holding hands/kissing in the street, Paying for their mistakes and facing consequence are part of democracy too!
Its not like US or England were involved in this case again!!

sorry for eating your brain!!just so pissed off at our ppl..

 

[beekar]

There was no way he could have slip through easily if he was running against Moein

or KARROOBEE

I agree, it was a full proof plan, no matter how many, or who voted
thanks for the post Niloufar KHAANOOM

 

[Farsi Zaban]

I agree Nilou jan,

The outcome of the elections couldn't have possibly worked out any better for Rafsanjani. Granted that he's the biggest dayoos alive, he is also a master politician.

 

[lordofmordor]

Perhaps, but we really dont know what is going on behind the scene in Iran just the way we dont know what is going on anywhere else. It is easy to say that Rafsanji has fooled people, etc.. But many things on the surface are not necessary what it really is.

For example, for Gorbachev to change the system, he really needed to embrace the communism and then move up in the system and then change it.

Another theory is that there are shadow groups behind the scene that are fundamentalist and have the power. Rafsanji and Khaminie might have to keep them satisfied . One such group is Basiji, and guardian council. Just like any military, they have their own leaders who answers to Khamanie, but they first report to their own leader.

I myself have the image in my head that Rafsanji and Khamanie are the biggest **** in the world and are most likely very true, but it is good to consider all other options.

 

[Mehran(ISP)]

good points. But no matter what, the IR would never have Ahmadnejad as the president. He would trigger a revolution.

 

[lordofmordor]

Mehran, I totally agree, although, are you sure there will be another revolution if that happens. I am not convinced. They get the Basijis to beat the people. Pay the poor with their sticks to come and beat people. People would fly back into their homes. They will hang people so high in Tehran that all can see. Have you fogotten about that?

 

[MohammadLin]

Even if your conspiracy theory is correct, I do not agree with your conclusion. Unfortunately, you see our country from the perspective of the western civilized society. Perhaps this assumption is originated from the fact that your family, many of your close friends and relatives are well educated. However, you fail to see the fact that people who you know are very small portion of the society. One simple example, Karoubi, had the least supporters, most of which were old conservative clerics. He didn’t even spend lots of time and effort (compared to others) but just because he said that he’ll give 50,000 monthly to individuals over 18, he earned 5 million votes! I repeat 5 million votes!!! It means that at least 2-3 millions of those somewhat educated people, could not think that it is impossible to give 50,000*20,000,000=1000 Billions toman ($1 Billion ) at minimum to people per month!
You are talking about boycott when considerable portion of Iranian VOTERS cannot do a simple math and logic! Unlike you, I do not blame those people who cannot make simple logical decision. If anybody is there to blame, I’ll blame people who do not educate the society when they have a chance. This includes all the intellectuals, teachers, students and parents; … It is a cycle in fact.

I do not see any way other than educating people. I also do not agree with your comments about Khatami. I voted for him (even though) I was young then, but I am very glad I participate in that process. I think he (despite all of his shortcomings and many mistakes that he made) did his historical duty as AN IRANIAN (not president!) If 30% of Iranians had been 20% as effective as he was in educating people (towards modern concepts such as civil society, democracy and freedom) you and I would not have to discuss these issues, now.

 

[lordofmordor]

MohammadLin, very nice comments.

 

[nashenas]

u cant blame hashemi, its just our people.
no one predicted this will happen, this was a political risk that hashemi took and he was very lucky . u still cant predict friday's votes.
I never forget when i went to get my passport in tehran and this guy came to me asking me to fill in his forms in "gozarnameh". and i said ok.....i aksed him where he wants to go and he said, "isfahan by plane"!!!!!!!!
or a few weeks ago in hospital when this women was shouting "khomeini khoda biamorzeh to ro...ajab aghayi boodi...ajab Bimarestani sakhti!!!!!(shah made the hospital but is called khomeini hospital now).
I'm personally against democracy in Iran, mardom zarfiateh democracy nadaran, maybe in 100 years time but not now.

 

[General Parsaian]

shah made the hospital but is called khomeini hospital now).
I'm personally against democracy in Iran, mardom zarfiateh democracy nadaran, maybe in 100 years time but not now.

%100 AGREE WITH YOU
Nilo all my friend dont like rafsanjany even some of them ready to kill him,Now how he got 6.000.000 votes KHODA MIDONE

 

[Bache Tehroon]

Even if your conspiracy theory is correct, I do not agree with your conclusion. Unfortunately, you see our country from the perspective of the western civilized society. Perhaps this assumption is originated from the fact that your family, many of your close friends and relatives are well educated. However, you fail to see the fact that people who you know are very small portion of the society. One simple example, Karoubi, had the least supporters, most of which were old conservative clerics. He didn’t even spend lots of time and effort (compared to others) but just because he said that he’ll give 50,000 monthly to individuals over 18, he earned 5 million votes! I repeat 5 million votes!!! It means that at least 2-3 millions of those somewhat educated people, could not think that it is impossible to give 50,000*20,000,000=1000 Billions toman ($1 Billion ) at minimum to people per month!
You are talking about boycott when considerable portion of Iranian VOTERS cannot do a simple math and logic! Unlike you, I do not blame those people who cannot make simple logical decision. If anybody is there to blame, I’ll blame people who do not educate the society when they have a chance. This includes all the intellectuals, teachers, students and parents; … It is a cycle in fact.

I do not see any way other than educating people. I also do not agree with your comments about Khatami. I voted for him (even though) I was young then, but I am very glad I participate in that process. I think he (despite all of his shortcomings and many mistakes that he made) did his historical duty as AN IRANIAN (not president!) If 30% of Iranians had been 20% as effective as he was in educating people (towards modern concepts such as civil society, democracy and freedom) you and I would not have to discuss these issues, now.

Good post, although we may end up disagreeing on Khatami's performance!

In my view 50% of the whole scenario is almost pre-written by the backbone of the regime:

"Keep them hungry, leave them no time to think or get educated"

This has worked perfectly.

The other 50% comes from several other causes:

1. Religion(religion is a major cause of ignorance)
2. Lack of respect for knowledge(Cultural)
3. The negative feeling towards the more educated level of the society(some of it is justified, the rest is not)


There may be other causes, but these are the most apparent ones. Maybe others can add more.

 

[lordofmordor]

We are the one who put Khomeini in power. The ones that voted for the Islamic republic. The ones that still refuse to give up the religion and thus giving the religous people power. You want to end this regime, give up the relgion that is choking us all. Voting wont make any differnece. We are the ones who at the beginning of the revolution helped close down the streets and protect the neighborhoods for the religious people. When they said put chador on, how many of you thought maybe it is a religious thing and did not pour into the street. Lets take the responsiblity.

 

[ChaharMahal]

niloufar jan dont get me wrong I agree with you that rafsajani is a crook.

But you cited that he did not get enough of votes for parliment election.

Well the parliment election was in tehran and the presidential is country wide.

So just because somebody is not popular teheran does not mean that he is not popular else where.



But rafsanjani's case I would say just because he is unpopular in big cities it does not mean he is as unpopular in small towns.

 

[UCLA]

Iranian people are "BIBOKHAR" anyway!

They easily forget what crimes this akhoond has done and vote for him again, such an embaressing nation.

 

[Simply Ken]

Here some general points, although they aren't going to make a difference here among the converted.

(1) Religion might be a reflection of some of the ignorance in our society, but religion is not per se the "cause" of it. People invoking religion might promote ignorant agendas for the faithful, but often they have also led them towards more enlightened paths.

The latter has been more true than the former. That is the case, if for no other reason, because a mullah is going to be more educated than an illiterate villager, or a barely literate worker, who has neither the time nor inclination to think deeply about any issue. And who could easily be led astray by a demogogue far worse than any mullah.

(2) People should not confuse general education with specific expertise. The more educated population in Iran might itself believe things that are totally at odds with what an academic expert on sociology, Iranian political culture, politics, etc, might think. Indeed, some of the problem in Iran is that the "generally educated" are often unwilling to become better educated politically. Instead, their ideas are generally shallow, ridiculously conspiratorial (fueled by among other things the fact that they often make the wrong tactical move, and then blame someone else for the result), and without the necessary acumen to chart a path that responds to Iran's needs.

(3) In advanced societies, the "knowledge pyramid" is designed to have academic experts in various fields (sociology, history, political science, economics etc) write boring long books that explain various issues, for those findings to then be taken up by the next level in affiliiated fields (lawyers, journalists, political figures), passing it along to general public in more abbreviated, and more understandable, language.

In this dynamic, dissident voices might arise and they might occasionally try to short circuit the system, often going to poets and artists for that purpose. Since the American system has its own corruptions, both financial as well as arising from the influence of certain special interests, sometimes those dissident voices have something useful to share too. In general, however, these dissident voices (often, not always, lacking the specific expertise required) are more pompous than erudite, more superficial than knowledgable. Kind of like some of our dissidents.

(4) In Iran, because the various "systems" have not produced an accceptable enough society or a coherent enough methodology of learning yet, the whole system that passes along information to the public was a total mess -- and today is only slightly better.

Basically, for a long time, we failed to train our "in house experts" (academics) rigorously enough, while for political reasons, our barelly developed intermediate institutions (political leaders and journalists) focused on trying to speak to person on top rather than the masses, hence communicating in language that was Chinese for them and irrelevant to the educated. That left the floor to "poets and sloganeers" (dissident voices) trying to enlist the allegiance of the "educated" in our society, while the mullahs had to deal with the masses.

In that vain, if the "mullahs" were the leaders of the masses, our "intellectuals" where the leaders of the supposedly educated general elite. And it is debatable whether the mullahs led their flock any worse than the so-called intellectuals in our society?

(5) The day when both our "system", as well as our "intellectuals", allow the most acadamically qualified political scientists to explain political issues to them, the most academically accomplished sociologists to explain their society to them, the most academically qualified historians to explain their history to them, the most academically qualified economists to explain economic issues, then we have a chance of going somewhere positive. But if (figuratively speaking) our "poets" are going to try to push our mullahs aside and grab power from them, then they will not only lose the battle because they are speaking to a smaller base, they will also have no clue how to adjust their tactics to win either. Why? Because they are even less qualified than the mullahs when it comes to politics. The latter at least has to be in touch with the real folks in Iran. The former are just in touch with their feelings!

 

[Mehman]

Kambujieh:

"I think the people in Iran will be the only one that will (and should) decide their faith. The rest of us outside, should kind of shut up or if we really want to fight, go back to Iran. So ... either move back and fight with the people, or simply shut **** UP please."

I wish everyone in this forum would follow the wise comments of kambujieh, including all those agreeing with the thread "Rafsanji fooled our people again." What makes people outside of Iran think they any less "foolish" than those residing in Iran?

 

[deerouz]

I am more amazed that some of us call the Iranian people "Bi-Bokhar", while it is us who've fled that situation...

 

[Bache Tehroon]

Kambujieh:

"I think the people in Iran will be the only one that will (and should) decide their faith. The rest of us outside, should kind of shut up or if we really want to fight, go back to Iran. So ... either move back and fight with the people, or simply shut **** UP please."

I wish everyone in this forum would follow the wise comments of kambujieh, including all those agreeing with the thread "Rafsanji fooled our people again." What makes people outside of Iran think they any less "foolish" than those residing in Iran?

I think you had to write what you wrote no matter what, so here's the answer:

when someone say's "RAFSANJANI FOOLED OUT PEOPLE", they're saying "RAFSANJANI DIDN'T FOOL ME, BUT FOOLED THE PEOPLE I ASSOCIATE WITH AND CARE ABOUT". What is so wrong with that?

I do not agree with everything posted here, and I don't really think Rafsanjani had this whole thing planned, but just because peopel outside Iran are concerned about their homeland, it doesn't mean they're trying to tell those inside what to do.

I have personally given up on Iranian politics and economy because in my view there's nothing I can do or say to make things better, but some people still believe there's hope. Are you forbidding them from being concerned about the country they were born in? Who are you? The nation's lawyer on ISP?

Do you even know what a discussion forum is for? FOR DISCUSSION!

 

[Mehman]

It remains a fact that people who have been away from their country for a long time (as most people in this forum have) are not as educated about the politics of their country as those who are living it on a daily basis.

I think a discussion of politics in Iran is healthy as long as you don't have the mentality that you have the clear picture and those in the country are blind and easily fooled.

Don't worry...I'm not forbidding your Niloufar from anything.

 

[Bache Tehroon]

TheAlijan,

My NILOUFAR has a keyboard of her own and can defend herself. I wasn't trying to defend anyone. I didn't like the tone you used when refering to those living abroad. You're telling me just because I live in Canada, I should "SHUT UP" when it comes to Iranian politics?!!

What makes me less informed than that CHOOPPON in "Ali Abade Katool" who voted for Karoubi hoping to get paid 50,000 toman per month as promised?!

Hell, if he has the right to make the country go down the drain with his vote, then my least right is to critisize him for the way he thinks and my biggest right is to go back home and try to get people like him off the election-boxes by preaching about the consequences of his actions.

I haven't decided to do the latter yet and I don't think I ever will, but I reserve the right to do so FOREVER.