the most painful poll of isp??as a iranian which one do you prefer?

[^İNDİANA JONES^]

IJ Jaan,

The third option is what Iranians inside Iran who are close to the action and in the field are doing...continue to fight IRI with all peaceful resources possible. If they see it fit, they might start using other methods as well. But it is more or less up to them as they are living the life and going through it with every breath they take. So for us it is easy to say LENGESH KON but for a Baluchi who is having all sorts of problems to make ends meet, it is not that easy. Neither is it for a Tehrani or a Kurd.

As Fole rightly outlined, occupation is not the only way foreigners can help and in fact it might not be the best option at the moment. However, help from outside, so long as, it does not conflict with short and long term intersts of Iranian "people", is more than welcomed.

referee aziz.ı know occupation is not a lovely way for us to get rid of from these BASTARDS but we have enough power to kick the foreigners ass from iran whenever we want after their occupation becasuse don t forget we are not afgan or ıraqi.we have a civilization since a long time ago to tell something in the world as a iranians.

with one word ı want to get the answer from your mouth as a yes or no.do you really believe these bitches can go with people s peacufully gatherings and with their ALLAHO AKBAR chanting???do you??

beside war option ı also support the idea of ETESABE SARASARİ.but since we have to much ADAM FOOROSH ı don think it is s possible way in this current situation.

thanks

 

[deerouz]

referee aziz.ı know occupation is not a lovely way for us to get rid of from these BASTARDS but we have enough power to kick the foreigners ass from iran whenever we want after their occupation becasuse don t forget we are not afgan or ıraqi.we have a civilization since a long time ago to tell something in the world as a iranians.

Actually, that comparison is not quite accurate. Afghans beat down two empires(British in 19th and Soviets in 20th century), and are challenging a third. We, on the other hand, are a civilization that never managed to kick out any invader throughout its history. We just waited patiently until they left on their own: Alexander, Arabs, Mongols, Tatars, Russians at the time of the constitutional movement, and the allies in 1941. We are such great hosts for every stranger who walks through our door!

 

[^İNDİANA JONES^]

Actually, that comparison is not quite accurate. Afghans beat down two empires(British in 19th and Soviets in 20th century), and are challenging a third. We, on the other hand, are a civilization that never managed to kick out any invader throughout its history. We just waited patiently until they left on their own: Alexander the Greek, Arabs, Mongols, Tatars, Russians at the time of the constitutional movement, and the allies in 1941. We are such great hosts for every stranger who walks through our door!

aziz digeh tou garneh qoroonehvosta zendegi nemikonimke niaz be toopo tofango,shamshir niaz dashte bashim ke inaro az sarzaminemoon biroon bokonim.

when we take the right peacufully action against these foreign forces they will understand what we want as a iranians.they are not dictator like the these regimes animals.ı hope you get what ı mean brother

 

[deerouz]

when we take the right peacufully action against these foreign forces they will understand what we want as a iranians.they are not dictator like the these regimes animals.ı hope you get what ı mean brother

But What is that right peaceful action? and in determining "what we want as iranians", how can one guarantee that Iranians would speak with the same voice? I think this is a dangerous path; to invite a foreign invasion which could potentially ruin the country, and then hope that we would manage to deal with them peacefully later. We could end up going "from chaleh to chaah".

 

[Iran-Parast]

Actually, that comparison is not quite accurate. Afghans beat down two empires(British in 19th and Soviets in 20th century), and are challenging a third. We, on the other hand, are a civilization that never managed to kick out any invader throughout its history. We just waited patiently until they left on their own: Alexander, Arabs, Mongols, Tatars, Russians at the time of the constitutional movement, and the allies in 1941. We are such great hosts for every stranger who walks through our door!

Thats not true, you should read iranian history, when ever some one attacked the iranian people fought them until they broke them. after Alexanders death it was the brave fighting of the iranian people that eventually led to parthians coming to power in iran. Also during arab rule esfehan and many other iranian cities had their populations wiped out because of the emence struggle of the people. it was struggles such as these and the likes of Abu moslem khorassani and babak khoramdin that brought the saffarid and samanids to power. Another unique thing about us iranians is our beautiful culture all our invaders took our culture, took our way of governance and our norms and celeberation. From Alexander whose was a true praiser of the iranians to Arabs who basically copied everything from the sassanids such governance art and alike. it was Barmaki persian families style of governance that led to the scientific growth within the abbassid caliphate. Same goes for the Turks who embraced our culture, who even celeberate norouz. This is a very unique feature of our culture and civilization that we should be proud of. What other country in the world do u know of that even its invaders take its culture and way of life, this something us iranians should be very proud of.

Ps. also what other country in the region due know of that has so many social and political movement in the past 120 years. From mashrooteh, to oil nationalization and mossadegh, the ir revolution and now the current movement. We have been through alot, and in my opinion Iranians are amongest the bravest people in the world.

 

[Iran-Parast]

But What is that right peaceful action? and in determining "what we want as iranians", how can one guarantee that Iranians would speak with the same voice? I think this is a dangerous path; to invite a foreign invasion which could potentially ruin the country, and then hope that we would manage to deal with them peacefully later. We could end up going "from chaleh to chaah".

I agree with you that no foreigner should be allowed to step foot in iran. Its us the iranian people who should bring for our country and no one else.

 

[deerouz]

My dear friend, I am quite familiar with Iranian history and what you describe is simply not correct. Parthians rule (Ashkanian) was not the result of an Iranian rebelion against Greeks: the seleucid (Alexander successors) ruled Iran for over 80 years until they were weakened and forced out, and Parthians (Ashkanian) used to call themselves philhellenes "friend of Greeks.", not enemies of them. Some Iranian cities did rebel against Arabs at the beginning, but to no result. Abumuslim's rebelion was to bring the arab Abbassid empire to power, not an Iranian government. Just to mention a few inaccuracies.

Your point about our culture is true, and further shows that we are not the kind who would fight invaders to death. As a nation we are used to sit back and let the invaders get absorbed into our nation or weakened so much that they just go away.

As for social and political movements in the region, some others have gone through more social developments than us over the past 150 years, I can name in particular Turkey and Egypt. Although admittedly the social development of the past 50 years in Iran has been really fast. As for calling us the bravest people of the world, I believe it serves us better if we set aside this kind of self-congratulatory approach that has little basis in reality.

Thats not true, you should read iranian history, when ever some one attacked the iranian people fought them until they broke them.

 

[Iran-Parast]

My dear friend, I am quite familiar with Iranian history and what you describe is simply not correct. Parthians rule (Ashkanian) was not the result of an Iranian rebelion against Greeks: the seleucid (Alexander successors) ruled Iran for over 80 years until they were weakened and forced out, and Parthians (Ashkanian) used to call themselves philhellenes "friend of Greeks.", not enemies of them. Some Iranian cities did rebel against Arabs at the beginning, but to no result. Abumuslim's rebelion was to bring the arab Abbassid empire to power, not an Iranian government. Just to mention a few inaccuracies.

Your point about our culture is true, and further shows that we are not the kind who would fight invaders to death. As a nation we are used to sit back and let the invaders get absorbed into our nation or weakened so much that they just go away.

As for social and political movements in the region, some others have gone through more social developments than us over the past 150 years, I can name in particular Turkey and Egypt. Although admittedly the social development of the past 50 years in Iran has been really fast. As for calling us the bravest people of the world, I believe it serves us better if we set aside this kind of self-congratulatory approach that has little basis in reality.

deerouz jan

Turkey has had more social development then we have had but not egypt. plus the turks have not had to deal with what have had to. for example due too our oil reserves we had to consistently fight off foreigners, while the turks did have such a problem. also domestically we are a much more complicated society, thus any change in our country was faced with great violance. starting from mashrooteh up until now. while in Turkey after WWI change and development cam relatively smoothly. while in Iran anyone who tried bring some change or offer an opposing view was killed. from reformers such as amir kabir to writers such as ahmad Kasravi. the reason i said iranians are brave people and not push overs like you said is because despite of all this we keep fighting to better our situation. Unlike Turkey the movemnets in iran have been from the sociatal level rather being led by elites ( although not always.) Egypt has never had any mass movements or any kind of social movement that was not elitist based, and trust me egypt is socially far behind us today. Btw i did not say we are bravest in the world i just said we are brave and not push overs.

 

[deerouz]

I think we both agree on our main point in this thread; that opting for foreign military invasion is at this point a risky gamble that with all its cost, does not necessarily bring the desired result. I have no problem with foreign support of Iranian movements. It is the military invasion and war that I object to because I know they would come with great cost.

 

[Flint]

I have no problem with foreign support of Iranian movements. It is the military invasion and war that I object to because I know they would come with great cost.

What sort of support do you have in mind? What do the people in the streets need that could come from abroad? And I am not talking about another speech by some foreign minister.

 

[Iran-Parast]

What sort of support do you have in mind? What do the people in the streets need that could come from abroad? And I am not talking about another speech by some foreign minister.

they can Help spread the news in Iran. (satelite, twitter, internet etc...)

 

[deerouz]

What sort of support do you have in mind? What do the people in the streets need that could come from abroad? And I am not talking about another speech by some foreign minister.

A few I can think of: targeted sanctions, international pressure, information and media campaign inside Iran, and if necessary, material support for armed resistance.

 

[masoudA]

A few I can think of: targeted sanctions, international pressure, information and media campaign inside Iran, and if necessary, material support for armed resistance.

FAN TAS TIC - I add
How about releasing some of Iran's frozen funds in the west to a group representing Iranians outside Iran. Note that this group does not exist yet - because IR has for years invested or even committed terror to keep it from forming. Part of the initial funds released to Iranians can be spent on creating such representation.

 

[DireStraits]

You won't decied that question. If US want to attack they do. I am seeing things are moving in such a way that every thing is getting ready for it. The regime is losing its popularity more than ever. Out side world are discussing the consequence of IRs nuclear program. They are getting ready to bycotte Iran. Once IRI is weak enough like Iraq was before the war then every thing is ready. Iraq by then has done much of it's reconstruction work and IRI will be even less popular.
Every thing is working for the attack to happen unless IRI is removed by the green movement. Now what will be our future if that happen is another discussion.

 

[^İNDİANA JONES^]

they can Help spread the news in Iran. (satelite, twitter, internet etc...)

so what???!!!!

 

[^İNDİANA JONES^]

But What is that right peaceful action? and in determining "what we want as iranians", how can one guarantee that Iranians would speak with the same voice? I think this is a dangerous path; to invite a foreign invasion which could potentially ruin the country, and then hope that we would manage to deal with them peacefully later. We could end up going "from chaleh to chaah".

ba ye kalam begoo.which is more foreigner for you!!!rejime suporters who occupied our country since 30 years or the american soldiers.


one of the peacufully actions that people can use is people s gatherings and their protests against them around the country.one of the reasons that these foreign forces dont live ıraq or afganistan is the presents of ELQAİDE terorists in these countries.but we are iranians and if this regime is eliminated we will not allow these terrorists to enter our country so there is no excuse to stay of foreign forces in our country

 

[The_Referee]

ba ye kalam begoo.which is more foreigner for you!!!rejime suporters who occupied our country since 30 years or the american soldiers.

With all due respect IJ jaan, I think it is absolute BS to call IRI a foreign race. I know it hurts to accept reality and to accept that it is possible that Iranians can be that horrible. But I am sure many of those who claim to fight for freedom when they are on the other side of the fence, they will do the same as IRI does, only with different excuses and justifications.


So drop this bogus invasion thing. We need to work on how to rid of the mentality that brings IRI or alike to the power. It needs a lot of patience. No foreign invasion can do that for us. Look at Iraq. They have rid of Saddam. But anytime US pulls out, they are back to square one. Maleki and all are pure Iraqis but more or less like IRI. Iran will not be any better after a foreign invasion unless we work hard on the mentality.

The bottom line is that this cancer needs far more chemotherapy than a blind surgery with contaminated SAATOOR of neighborhood butcher....

 

[masoudA]

With all due respect IJ jaan, I think it is absolute BS to call IRI a foreign race.

I disagree with you Deerouz jaan - I just heared it from a good source today, IR is hiring militia from Algeria and Moroco to police Iran cities. You may consider them Iranian but they don't consider themselves as part us or anything we stand for.

But the discussion was at a great point - what can Americans do to help other than a military intervension.

 

[Iran-Parast]

I disagree with you Deerouz jaan - I just heared it from a good source today, IR is hiring militia from Algeria and Moroco to police Iran cities. You may consider them Iranian but they don't consider themselves as part us or anything we stand for.

But the discussion was at a great point - what can Americans do to help other than a military intervension.

lol, never heard that before, i had heard forces were being brought in from lebenon and palestine, but not morracco and algeria. you cant believe any bs that is out there.

 

[^İNDİANA JONES^]

With all due respect IJ jaan, I think it is absolute BS to call IRI a foreign race. I know it hurts to accept reality and to accept that it is possible that Iranians can be that horrible. But I am sure many of those who claim to fight for freedom when they are on the other side of the fence, they will do the same as IRI does, only with different excuses and justifications.


So drop this bogus invasion thing. We need to work on how to rid of the mentality that brings IRI or alike to the power. It needs a lot of patience. No foreign invasion can do that for us. Look at Iraq. They have rid of Saddam. But anytime US pulls out, they are back to square one. Maleki and all are pure Iraqis but more or less like IRI. Iran will not be any better after a foreign invasion unless we work hard on the mentality.

The bottom line is that this cancer needs far more chemotherapy than a blind surgery with contaminated SAATOOR of neighborhood butcher....

BLOODY REFEREE.BROTHER there is one point that ı think you are missing.don t you think that these terrorists cause that ıraq and afganistan is still under foreign occupation.ı swear the god if these suicide bombings stop in these countries the very near future these forces will leave these countries.believe me we will never be like ıraq or afganistan.because their culture is totally different from our one.dont miss the cultural effect when these things happen.

don t forget DANDOONE KERM KHORDE RA BAYAD BEKANİ CHON İN DİGEH NİAZ BE MOALECEH NADAREH.our story is completely the same one with this old persian idiom.

thanx