This is how Canada owns USA in World Economic Forum!

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#21
Nilou jan - Investment banks do exist in Canada - I work for one.

All the major banks here in Canada have investment banking arms. RBC Dominion Securities, TD Securities, BMO Nesbit Burns are some examples. And individuals, like you and me, cannot invest their money at investment banks per se! Investment banks only deal with governments and corporations help them address their financing needs.
However, you can bank with Bank of America for example who in return helps Merril Lynch (owned by BofA) to assume speculative positions through their proprietary sales and trading.
oh yeah thats exactly what I meant. yeah I know almost all Canada's bank have departments for investments only, and thats fair..when Canada's bank foundation are solid enough, their investment dept too is prob monitored well enough?!

But in USA, there r actually completely private Investment Banks that individuals can invest their money at, without going to the bank(therefore higher chances of private investment frauds). whereas, we dont have that system in Canada, so everything has to go through Banking system and regulation, right? correct me if Im wrong, cuz obviously u know better. :)
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#22
WOW! Nilu you're on a roll lately!

Harper deserving credit for Canada's economic strength?!!! LOL!!!!

I could debate the "strength" part for ages, but let's say it really could be considered "strength". Even then, Paul Martin would be the prophet to pray to, not Stephen Harper!

Can you or Pooya name me ONE thing that Harper has done to deserve credit for this so called "strength"? (I think it's a weakness in the long run but anyway)

loool, love ur bias!! I was like that up until 3 months ago..relying too much on Canada's Liberal govt. but guess what? Ignatieff is simply NOT competent enough..nor is NDP leader..NDP leader isnt bad, but God these 2 opposition leaders dont have a PRECISE plan on how to combat recession, how govt should do differently..they basically just moan and criticize govt for the sake of criticizing..

What Harper did, which I really liked, was Extending EI benefits almost immediately, when the whole auto-industry kind of crashed(both in Canada and USA). then he immediately introduced Stimulus Package which was far less hefty than USA, yet with much more precise Construction, Retrofit programs for Home Renovation which kept/created lots of jobs..

I was working at an American oil-gas company(had Home improvement business too) at that time and u have no idea how many customer calls-requests we got for renovation(as just one company, imagine the huge demand for other companies-contractors,etc) as soon as Harper govt introduced that Renovation Tax-Credit last yr this time.

Thats enough for u for today!!lol Pooya can name the rest tomorrow! ;)
 
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Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#23
Baba ba man in bahs-ha ro shoroo nakon, tamoom nemisheha!

Just to let you know Ignatieff, Martin, Harper, Laton, Clinton, McCain, Bush, Biden and Obama are all the same to me. They're politicians. Bullshitters in suits. Some have more character than others but that really doesn't matter when it comes to economy.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#24
Baba ba man in bahs-ha ro shoroo nakon, tamoom nemisheha!

Just to let you know Ignatieff, Martin, Harper, Laton, Clinton, McCain, Bush, Biden and Obama are all the same to me. They're politicians. Bullshitters in suits. Some have more character than others but that really doesn't matter when it comes to economy.
oh it does, trust me..Ignatieff is pretty lefty, to the sense that he made statements such as "raising tax" would help a lot to reduce Federal deficit,etc.!! whereas, u know, I know, raising taxes at this time gonna hurt the economy a lot. just like stupid Ontario Liberal PM, MacGuinty, has approved Harmonized taxes as of Summer 2010 which will actually lead to immediate price increase of all housing-construction, house sale,etc very soon here..hence damping on Ontario's Real Estate market..so one politician's poor decision making can negatively affect many ppl-businesses..

but unfortunately current Liberal politicians just dont get it, but Harper got it and knows Canadians' needs more at this time.
 

westwienmaskulin

News Team, ISP Managers Team, ISP Podcast Team
Oct 18, 2002
36,645
1
41
Av. Aristide Maillol, BCN
#25
Harper has EVOLVED, CHANGED from how he was during Bush era
really? He is labour now or what?

and made his biggest mistake in sending/adding troops to Afghanistan as per USA request, and now he's realized that and is MAKING UP FOR IT in all other aspects internally with his great policies for Canadians.
Sure..he realized that..that's exactly how it is. It wasn't a populist bluff and going with a mainstream idea.


but Obama is still the same VAGUE(Akhound-sounding goodlooking guy with nice sweet words) politicians that fooled millions of Americans including Noble Peace Prize committee!


Ok..you know, it's a real BAD thing when you just start to follow the trail when it comes to politics. So Harper is the man who has changed and Obama is just about talks? Really? Being the one president who after 60 years pushed through a health care reform that will get signed once Congress Democrats pull the stick out of their ass?
Making the right moves, although not enough, to save the US from the worst economic downturn in history?

While you're at it, you may once in a while check this website

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

and try to inform yourself how passing laws and everything else works in the US, unlike in Canada.
Like AI said, sorry, you and Harper are talking about practice, not the actual game. :D

trust me I was fooled by him and his team too until recently, but I talked to few ppl who live IN USA, I went to Chicago and actually discussed American politics-Obama with the taxi driver(the street ppl Obama promised to listen to but never did), and finally found out what American PEOPLE WANT/NEED and how Disconnected Obama's Administration is from American ppl's needs..
Ok..so that changed your mind then. And then you had a cabdrive with a Toronto Taxi driver and Harper is the shit now.

thats why "Zob Ahan"( the knowledgeable member here) is spot on when he says "the best investment in USA Real Estate is in "Affordable housing"!!! its sad but soo true..bc Americans gonna live a very poor life in the next 4-8 yrs bc of Obama's wrong policies.
Yeah, exactly, because of Obama's wrong policies, not because of the 8 years before.

Practice!

just read newspaper articles(both written in USA and in Canada), and you'll realize how smart American public have got regarding Obama's tricks, and that its perfectly argued in articles here that "dont blame everything on Bush, Unemployment until Bush was in charge was %8.5, but since he left it increased to %10 even until today. so clearly Obama couldnt even contain unemployment despite its massive bailouts/stimulus package".
Alright...look sorry, this is the point where I actually can't take you serious anymore. Unemployment rate under Bush was 8.5% and now it's 10? Are you fucking serious now? The rate is at 10 for about a year now. I guess once he got into office, the unemployment rate automatically went up, just because him being "bad ghadam". Is that your point?


while in contrary, in Canada Unemployment have DECREASED since Nov 2008 when Recession happened, along with other positive stats here in Canada, and that clearly shows how INCOMPETENT Obama has been in managing/containing current recession in USA, and how COMPETENT Harper/Mike Carney have been in perfectly managing recession in Canada and leading all G8 countries bc of their great management!;)
Like I said, you're talking about practice. It would be a good idea for you to first try to understand how the US political system works (you know, the stuff about Senate and Congress), what had happened the 8 years before(you know..the part about around a Trillion dollar deficit he inherited) and then we may actually talk about the rest. But with all due respect, you just don't really know what you are talking about and basing your argument on a taxi ride in Chicago, which is quite ridiculous.

oh yeah thats exactly what I meant. yeah I know almost all Canada's bank have departments for investments only, and thats fair..when Canada's bank foundation are solid enough, their investment dept too is prob monitored well enough?!

But in USA, there r actually completely private Investment Banks that individuals can invest their money at, without going to the bank(therefore higher chances of private investment frauds). whereas, we dont have that system in Canada, so everything has to go through Banking system and regulation, right? correct me if Im wrong, cuz obviously u know better. :smile:
Stuff like that as an example...

while you're at it...Glass-Steagall...google that up...
 
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Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#26
really? He is labour now or what?



Sure..he realized that..that's exactly how it is. It wasn't a populist bluff and going with a mainstream idea.



Ok..you know, it's a real BAD thing when you just start to follow the trail when it comes to politics. So Harper is the man who has changed and Obama is just about talks? Really? Being the one president who after 60 years pushed through a health care reform that will get signed once Congress Democrats pull the stick out of their ass?
Making the right moves, although not enough, to save the US from the worst economic downturn in history?

While you're at it, you may once in a while check this website

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

and try to inform yourself how passing laws and everything else works in the US, unlike in Canada.
Like AI said, sorry, you and Harper are talking about practice, not the actual game. :D



Ok..so that changed your mind then. And then you had a cabdrive with a Toronto Taxi driver and Harper is the shit now.



Yeah, exactly, because of Obama's wrong policies, not because of the 8 years before.

Practice!



Alright...look sorry, this is the point where I actually can't take you serious anymore. Unemployment rate under Bush was 8.5% and now it's 10? Are you fucking serious now? The rate is at 10 for about a year now. I guess once he got into office, the unemployment rate automatically went up, just because him being "bad ghadam". Is that your point?




Like I said, you're talking about practice. It would be a good idea for you to first try to understand how the US political system works (you know, the stuff about Senate and Congress), what had happened the 8 years before(you know..the part about around a Trillion dollar deficit he inherited) and then we may actually talk about the rest. But with all due respect, you just don't really know what you are talking about and basing your argument on a taxi ride in Chicago, which is quite ridiculous.



Stuff like that as an example...

while you're at it...Glass-Steagall...google that up...
Loooool, now u sound as bias,accusing and offensive as Kaz, Mahdi!
So Im not gonna keep arguing with u to prove my point bc u hardly change ur mind even when PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN USA can prove all ur points wrong and they r if u just care to READ papers, Americans' concern and how Obama' policies is negatively affecting their economy and therefore Retirement,savings,etc.

So unlike u who live in Austria, and claim u know more about American ppl's needs and what this govt is doing, I READ papers written by American intellectuals,commented by American public, I closely watch and listen to USA govt news,what exactly they r trying to do and I also watch,
listen to and observe Opponents' views to realize the truth.Afterall u can never be biase towards one politician and one political party!

And for the exact reason that I KNOW but keep watching American congress-senate politics and how it has worked in the past 40 yrs or so and how it works now, I can confidently say USA congress ans senate r actually NOW working in interest of American ppl and don pass any costly(for american tax payers) legislation that Obama wants to get passed, just bc he is Obama!!

And bc of the very fact that I listen and learn from Top Economists on daily basis via media-paper-charts,etc and that I analyse the market trend pretty well to predict it accurately, I make lots of money from my national and global investments..

So dont talk to me like ur talking to a blonde 15yrs old girl who Has no clue about what she is talking about..

Now goodluck blindly supporting all Obama policies and blaming U.S congress for all HIS policy flaws!!!loool

*btw never make fun of ppl or understimate their concern bc of the job they possess, one of those whom I talked to, was that Taxi driver, old and very very knowledgable guy, he was laid off during recession recently out of his 30-yrs long work at manufacturing sector, and he was screaming his lungs out that USA's manuf pie share is diminishing day by day bc of govts wrong policy and that Obama if would care about puttin PEOPLE(not bankers) back to work, he could bail out faltering Manufacuring sector instead of banks and try to make USA manufacturing more competitive vs China, instead of just giving up to Chinese manuf..

Yes Obama promised to improve the country for the very same type of Average-middle income Americans, not billionaire bankers and insurance co.giants but u saw whom and which sector Obama decided to bailout,didnt u?
 
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westwienmaskulin

News Team, ISP Managers Team, ISP Podcast Team
Oct 18, 2002
36,645
1
41
Av. Aristide Maillol, BCN
#27
Loooool, now u sound as bias,accusing and offensive as Kaz, Mahdi!
So Im not gonna keep arguing with u to prove my point bc u hardly change ur mind even when PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN USA can prove all ur points wrong and they r if u just care to READ papers, Americans' concern and how Obama' policies is negatively affecting their economy and therefore Retirement,savings,etc.
Prove which points wrong?

Read US papers? Really? You read US papers? Can you even name 5 NY Times writers without going to their website?

So unlike u who live in Austria, and claim u know more about American ppl's needs and what this govt is doing, I READ papers written by American intellectuals,commented by American public, I closely watch and listen to USA govt news,what exactly they r trying to do and I also watch,
Which American intellectuals? Which American public? Name the people you follow. Thanks.

listen to and observe Opponents' views to realize the truth.Afterall u can never be biase towards one politician and one political party!
Try to read Kant. Everyone is biased.

And for the exact reason that I KNOW but keep watching American congress-senate politics and how it has worked in the past 40 yrs or so and how it works now, I can confidently say USA congress ans senate r actually NOW working in interest of American ppl and don pass any costly(for american tax payers) legislation that Obama wants to get passed, just bc he is Obama!!
And this is exactly the point of you don't know what you are talking about.
I mean, on one hand you are applauding Harper for a strong stimulus package. On the other hand, you say that Senate and Congress work in favor of US taxpayers because they didn't push through legislations that would affect taxpayers. Which legislations are you talking about? A higher stimulus package? Health care reform that would actually cut down costs of the health system? Really? I mean, you realize that your logic and reason is a bit flawed there and you're contradicting yourself, don't you? :)

And bc of the very fact that I listen and learn from Top Economists
Who are they? Name 5 Top economists you listen and learn from.

on daily basis via media-paper-charts,etc and that I analyse the market trend pretty well to predict it accurately, I make lots of money from my national and global investments..
Good for you. But please tell us more about those top economists. From what I know, most top economists don't try to predict financial markets. Or maybe we have other definitions of what a top economist is.

So dont talk to me like ur talking to a blonde 15yrs old girl who Has no clue about what she is talking about..
Well, I feel like I'm talking to a 27 year old dark haired girl who doesn't really know what she is talking about. No disrespect!

Now goodluck blindly supporting all Obama policies and blaming U.S congress for all HIS policy flaws!!!loool
Thanks. Good luck on Harper.

*btw never make fun of ppl or understimate their concern bc of the job they possess, one of those whom I talked to, was that Taxi driver, old and very very knowledgable guy, he was laid off during recession recently out of his 30-yrs long work at manufacturing sector, and he was screaming his lungs out that USA's manuf pie share is diminishing day by day bc of govts wrong policy and that Obama if would care about puttin PEOPLE(not bankers) back to work, he could bail out faltering Manufacuring sector instead of banks and try to make USA manufacturing more competitive vs China, instead of just giving up to Chinese manuf..
Heartbreaking story. But a) I wouldn't take the guy as the source of wisdom to tell me about economy b) the reason he is out of work goes a little bit back, has to do with someone breaking Glass-Steagall(googled that up already?), a housing bubble, "financial engineering" by banks, a stupid tax cut a couple of years before that cost the public, a trillion dollar deficit, most US companies not being competitive enough for ages etc. not because of the first 5 months of Obama in government. If you don't understand that, then, well, I can't do much for you.

Yes Obama promised to improve the country for the very same type of Average-middle income Americans, not billionaire bankers and insurance co.giants but u saw whom and which sector Obama decided to bailout,didnt u?
Here we go again. Yes, it would have been a much better idea to let the 3 biggest financial institutions in the US go out of business. We all saw what happened when Lehman went bust and it actually really helped...


NOT.

But you have heard about the Bank tax, haven't you? Google that up, once you googled up Glass-Steagall. Sorry that you take this personal, but in this case, you don't really know what you are talking about.

I mean, you talk about private investment banks where people don't have to go to the bank branch to invest their money. I mean, I haven't heard about public investment banks to be honest and in these days you don't have to go to your branch for banking transactions, it usually happens over the net. But if with private you meant that the banks are investment banks and not usual retail and commercial banks, and that's a bad thing...aeeeehm..the fact that retail and commercial banks got too big and had too many risky investments(and were also de facto investment banks) was the main reason for the mess, so how are "private" investment banks a bad thing?
 
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Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#28
Prove which points wrong?

Read US papers? Really? You read US papers? Can you even name 5 NY Times writers without going to their website?



Which American intellectuals? Which American public? Name the people you follow. Thanks.



Try to read Kant. Everyone is biased.



And this is exactly the point of you don't know what you are talking about.
I mean, on one hand you are applauding Harper for a strong stimulus package. On the other hand, you say that Senate and Congress work in favor of US taxpayers because they didn't push through legislations that would affect taxpayers. Which legislations are you talking about? A higher stimulus package? Health care reform that would actually cut down costs of the health system? Really? I mean, you realize that your logic and reason is a bit flawed there and you're contradicting yourself, don't you? :)



Who are they? Name 5 Top economists you listen and learn from.



Good for you. But please tell us more about those top economists. From what I know, most top economists don't try to predict financial markets. Or maybe we have other definitions of what a top economist is.



Well, I feel like I'm talking to a 27 year old dark haired girl who doesn't really know what she is talking about. No disrespect!



Thanks. Good luck on Harper.



Heartbreaking story. But a) I wouldn't take the guy as the source of wisdom to tell me about economy b) the reason he is out of work goes a little bit back, has to do with someone breaking Glass-Steagall(googled that up already?), a housing bubble, "financial engineering" by banks, a stupid tax cut a couple of years before that cost the public, a trillion dollar deficit, most US companies not being competitive enough for ages etc. not because of the first 5 months of Obama in government. If you don't understand that, then, well, I can't do much for you.



Here we go again. Yes, it would have been a much better idea to let the 3 biggest financial institutions in the US go out of business. We all saw what happened when Lehman went bust and it actually really helped...


NOT.

But you have heard about the Bank tax, haven't you? Google that up, once you googled up Glass-Steagall. Sorry that you take this personal, but in this case, you don't really know what you are talking about.

I mean, you talk about private investment banks where people don't have to go to the bank branch to invest their money. I mean, I haven't heard about public investment banks to be honest and in these days you don't have to go to your branch for banking transactions, it usually happens over the net. But if with private you meant that the banks are investment banks and not usual retail and commercial banks, and that's a bad thing...aeeeehm..the fact that retail and commercial banks got too big and had too many risky investments(and were also de facto investment banks) was the main reason for the mess, so how are "private" investment banks a bad thing?

LOOOL!! I love you too!!:) 30 u in 3 yrs time when its time to evaluate Obama's economic policies in his first term! In the meantime, I make lots of $ off his mismanagement while u keep applauding and admiring him here in ISP forum, without knowing AMERICAN PPL's SUFFERING and GRIM FUTURE and certainly not reading different views(printed in USA), just bc they sound critical of current Administration!

Until then, God bless America and you! ;)
 

Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
#29
Loooool, now u sound as bias,accusing and offensive as Kaz, Mahdi!
So Im not gonna keep arguing with u to prove my point bc u hardly change ur mind even when PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN USA can prove all ur points wrong and they r if u just care to READ papers, Americans' concern and how Obama' policies is negatively affecting their economy and therefore Retirement,savings,etc.

So unlike u who live in Austria, and claim u know more about American ppl's needs and what this govt is doing, I READ papers written by American intellectuals,commented by American public, I closely watch and listen to USA govt news,what exactly they r trying to do and I also watch,
listen to and observe Opponents' views to realize the truth.Afterall u can never be biase towards one politician and one political party!

And for the exact reason that I KNOW but keep watching American congress-senate politics and how it has worked in the past 40 yrs or so and how it works now, I can confidently say USA congress ans senate r actually NOW working in interest of American ppl and don pass any costly(for american tax payers) legislation that Obama wants to get passed, just bc he is Obama!!

And bc of the very fact that I listen and learn from Top Economists on daily basis via media-paper-charts,etc and that I analyse the market trend pretty well to predict it accurately, I make lots of money from my national and global investments..

So dont talk to me like ur talking to a blonde 15yrs old girl who Has no clue about what she is talking about..

Now goodluck blindly supporting all Obama policies and blaming U.S congress for all HIS policy flaws!!!loool

*btw never make fun of ppl or understimate their concern bc of the job they possess, one of those whom I talked to, was that Taxi driver, old and very very knowledgable guy, he was laid off during recession recently out of his 30-yrs long work at manufacturing sector, and he was screaming his lungs out that USA's manuf pie share is diminishing day by day bc of govts wrong policy and that Obama if would care about puttin PEOPLE(not bankers) back to work, he could bail out faltering Manufacuring sector instead of banks and try to make USA manufacturing more competitive vs China, instead of just giving up to Chinese manuf..

Yes Obama promised to improve the country for the very same type of Average-middle income Americans, not billionaire bankers and insurance co.giants but u saw whom and which sector Obama decided to bailout,didnt u?

I don't understand why people in Canada feel like there's always a competition on which country is better or stronger in every sector than the other. Quiet frankly, until a couple of months ago I didn't know who Harpor or anyone else in Canada's political system was; because, lets face it, Canada is far more dependant on what happens in the U.S than U.S does in Canada.

That being said, the science of economics is still very new and you're not gone come up with a perfect system. The only way of coming close to it with trial and error. What makes the U.S economy number one in the world is it's buying power and it's basis on Adam Smith's "hands off" economic theology. Meaning government should minimize intervention and that the market will take care of itself through competition. That being said; U.S had the market crash and depression of 1929 which created some regulatory measures and the FDIC. Then came the 1980 with it's own hits, and now it's the 2000s. Again, it's trial and error. But through all of this since the begining of the century, U.S economy has been to strongest out there.

What Obama has been doing is basically pumping cash fellow into a system that needs it. It's just like jump starting a car. The money given to the banks aren't "given" or "forgotten". Their being paid back to the treasury. That's to save them, since the principal outlining to any economy is JOBS. If people don't have them, they don't have money to spend, no money, no profit for companys to keep operating = more job losses. I'm happy with what Obama's doing and frankly I think he's done a good job with a hand he's been dealt with.

After what Bush (Harper of Canada) did to this country, if it was anyone else this economy would collapsed with the likes of Bank of America, Citi, Chase, Merryl Lynch, GM, Ford, etc... simply going out of business.

Oh as for the spendings, I rather have my tax money going to a good cause like Public Health care than paying for a god knows how many trillion dollar war in two fronts and not benefiting me in any way.

Just my two cents. Good posts throught this thread though. I enjoy reading them.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#30
I don't understand why people in Canada feel like there's always a competition on which country is better or stronger in every sector than the other. Quiet frankly, until a couple of months ago I didn't know who Harpor or anyone else in Canada's political system was; because, lets face it, Canada is far more dependant on what happens in the U.S than U.S does in Canada.

That being said, the science of economics is still very new and you're not gone come up with a perfect system. The only way of coming close to it with trial and error. What makes the U.S economy number one in the world is it's buying power and it's basis on Adam Smith's "hands off" economic theology. Meaning government should minimize intervention and that the market will take care of itself through competition. That being said; U.S had the market crash and depression of 1929 which created some regulatory measures and the FDIC. Then came the 1980 with it's own hits, and now it's the 2000s. Again, it's trial and error. But through all of this since the begining of the century, U.S economy has been to strongest out there.

What Obama has been doing is basically pumping cash fellow into a system that needs it. It's just like jump starting a car. The money given to the banks aren't "given" or "forgotten". Their being paid back to the treasury. That's to save them, since the principal outlining to any economy is JOBS. If people don't have them, they don't have money to spend, no money, no profit for companys to keep operating = more job losses. I'm happy with what Obama's doing and frankly I think he's done a good job with a hand he's been dealt with.

After what Bush (Harper of Canada) did to this country, if it was anyone else this economy would collapsed with the likes of Bank of America, Citi, Chase, Merryl Lynch, GM, Ford, etc... simply going out of business.

Oh as for the spendings, I rather have my tax money going to a good cause like Public Health care than paying for a god knows how many trillion dollar war in two fronts and not benefiting me in any way.

Just my two cents. Good posts throught this thread though. I enjoy reading them.
Mehran jan,

The issue isnt about Americans should/shouldnt get Health Care reform..I personally think they should..and its really needed..but ask ur President to provide DETAILS of Healthcare Reform he is asking for Congress to pass!!
Simply there is NO TRANSPARENCY in Obama Administration's policies/requests..its always vague, its always nice talks but no specifics and no action..so in a way, one shouldnt pass Healthcare reform just bc its got good intention behind it..Health Care reform budget is very very costly for American taxpayers, so they have all the rights to KNOW THE DETAILS of it, before they cheer for it!

read this news article, pretty interesting. Congress is trying to avoid giving ok to everything as they did regarding Bush's Energy plan(which here they admit they made a mistake passing that bill) :

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...details-about-Obama-s-healthcare-reform-deals

and lets just say we should agree to disagree then, that Free Market corrects itself without any govt intervention!!! cuz that was exactly the reason(bc there was almost no regulation-monitoring system independently or by govt to oversee exchange trades-mortgages-stock market) that lead to such immense recession..there should be monitoring system in place so business society doesnt become a jungle, as it was in USA(and in those countries that American corps had investments/branches)until last yr!

and FYI, Bank of Canada, at the time of recession, rightly so, did ask U.S Administration to not Bail out TOXIC Assets of failing banks, Insurance companies,etc..but Obama decided to ignore it, they bailed out all those failing elements, and failing CEOs, and guess what? 6-9 months later, it was revealed that the CEO-directors of those FAILING companies(whom were funded in billions by American taxpayers' including yours), were giving themselves huge bonuses for failing yet being rewarded by govt-Taxpayers' money!and they dont seem to care to return the loan either!!

and what does obama decides to do about huge Deficit USA has right now, bc of huge bailouts, stimulus package,etc that was increased a lot in the past yr or so(although he inherited a lot from Bush era, but still it was increased a lot in last yr alone too)? well in World Economic forum, he mentioned that "he plans to double US Export within 5 yrs":http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSWAT01407920100128

well great! but how? when US Dollar is under devaluation vs other currencies, and other countries have recently decreased their trade with USA(rightly so! bc of uncertainty about current/future of U.S consumer market), so the only way he can double ur export is to DEVALUATE $U.S even more! and what does that mean?! that means, potentially high inflation..specially that interest rates will be increased in 9-12 months or so..

and what else Obama is planning to do soon? Raising taxes it seems!
which is unavoidable eventually..but not now. USA Economy hasnt even Recovered yet to increase taxes. that would not only increase u guys' taxes and add more economical pressure on ordinary Americans, but will also mean there is a huge risk of double-deep Recession in USA happening again if in fact Obama increases the taxes right away..

here r interesting articles about this news:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/2009/04/21/obama-is-raising-taxes--not-cutting-them.html

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/09/30/obamas-not-so-secret-plan-to-raise-taxes/

http://www.businessinsider.com/are-you-ready-for-17-new-taxes-2010-1
 

Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
#31
Mehran jan,

The issue isnt about Americans should/shouldnt get Health Care reform..I personally think they should..and its really needed..but ask ur President to provide DETAILS of Healthcare Reform he is asking for Congress to pass!!
Simply there is NO TRANSPARENCY in Obama Administration's policies/requests..its always vague, its always nice talks but no specifics and no action..so in a way, one shouldnt pass Healthcare reform just bc its got good intention behind it..Health Care reform budget is very very costly for American taxpayers, so they have all the rights to KNOW THE DETAILS of it, before they cheer for it!

read this news article, pretty interesting. Congress is trying to avoid giving ok to everything as they did regarding Bush's Energy plan(which here they admit they made a mistake passing that bill) :

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...details-about-Obama-s-healthcare-reform-deals

and lets just say we should agree to disagree then, that Free Market corrects itself without any govt intervention!!! cuz that was exactly the reason(bc there was almost no regulation-monitoring system independently or by govt to oversee exchange trades-mortgages-stock market) that lead to such immense recession..there should be monitoring system in place so business society doesnt become a jungle, as it was in USA(and in those countries that American corps had investments/branches)until last yr!

and FYI, Bank of Canada, at the time of recession, rightly so, did ask U.S Administration to not Bail out TOXIC Assets of failing banks, Insurance companies,etc..but Obama decided to ignore it, they bailed out all those failing elements, and failing CEOs, and guess what? 6-9 months later, it was revealed that the CEO-directors of those FAILING companies(whom were funded in billions by American taxpayers' including yours), were giving themselves huge bonuses for failing yet being rewarded by govt-Taxpayers' money!and they dont seem to care to return the loan either!!

and what does obama decides to do about huge Deficit USA has right now, bc of huge bailouts, stimulus package,etc that was increased a lot in the past yr or so(although he inherited a lot from Bush era, but still it was increased a lot in last yr alone too)? well in World Economic forum, he mentioned that "he plans to double US Export within 5 yrs":http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSWAT01407920100128

well great! but how? when US Dollar is under devaluation vs other currencies, and other countries have recently decreased their trade with USA(rightly so! bc of uncertainty about current/future of U.S consumer market), so the only way he can double ur export is to DEVALUATE $U.S even more! and what does that mean?! that means, potentially high inflation..specially that interest rates will be increased in 9-12 months or so..

and what else Obama is planning to do soon? Raising taxes it seems!
which is unavoidable eventually..but not now. USA Economy hasnt even Recovered yet to increase taxes. that would not only increase u guys' taxes and add more economical pressure on ordinary Americans, but will also mean there is a huge risk of double-deep Recession in USA happening again if in fact Obama increases the taxes right away..

here r interesting articles about this news:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/2009/04/21/obama-is-raising-taxes--not-cutting-them.html

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/09/30/obamas-not-so-secret-plan-to-raise-taxes/

http://www.businessinsider.com/are-you-ready-for-17-new-taxes-2010-1

Nilou,

What you're trying to connect simply does not work. You simply can't reduce the deficit and help a ailing economy.

In regards to devaluing the dollar, thats just the principle of supply and demand. When you pour trillion of dollars into the market like they did this past year the U.S dollar will devalue, but when this money is taken back to the treasury; like its going and will with the payback, the dollar will be rightly valued.

Also, I don't see these stimulus packages as that bad of a thing for the deficit either. You have to look at the larger picture. Everything gets taxed; income, spending, capital gains. So you get that money, you spend it and pay the sales tax, the company that receives it pays its taxes with that money on the bottome line, that same money gets paid back to the employee as income meaning income tax; and the same cycle over and over again. The worst part of this whole stimulus package is when people get the money and don't spend it and rather save it; than it wouldn't accomplish anything.

In regards to increase in taxes, I don't see any increase anytime soon. They're simply not stupid enought to stretch the public even more with their budgets in tough times like this. Now, a couple of years from now, when everything is back to it's normal, and all other things being equal I don't mind paying a little higher in taxes. Why? because I rather they did what their doing now so I can still be employed with my employer rather than losing my job then the other option.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#32
Nilou,

What you're trying to connect simply does not work. You simply can't reduce the deficit and help a ailing economy.
Mehran, I think u misunderstood me. I didnt say "obama should reduce the deficit Now, at this time, AND help an ailing economy." USA Economy have simply not recovered yet, so it just doesnt make sense to think about reducing deficit now(and bc of it sorting to different routs such as increasing taxes, eliminating/reducing public programs,etc).

I criticized obama's recent statement about raising taxes soon in USA. As said, its only natural when all countries raise their taxes/reduce program costs, to make up for huge deficits, but USA economy is behind lots of leading Economies right now. so really there is no point in rushing into thinking far ahead, after recovery as of now!

In regards to devaluing the dollar, thats just the principle of supply and demand. When you pour trillion of dollars into the market like they did this past year the U.S dollar will devalue, but when this money is taken back to the treasury; like its going and will with the payback, the dollar will be rightly valued.
oh of course thats the reason dollar is devalued right now, but also the fact that not only USA Central Bank have printed much more $ than lots of other leading Economies, but also bc of carring on and facing increased deficit, again much larger than other leading Economies. so thats why US $ right now is much weaker than other major currencies. Its not like other foreign countries' currencies have improved, its US $'s curreny that is losing its value vs almost other currencies. but lets 30 if there is any end to it?

hopefully it is, bc if in fact Obama is thinking about devaluating US$ even more(as stupid Bush was doing for last few yrs) to increase export(if he is in fact serious about doubling Export level in 5 yrs as he just announced), then that means US $ devaluating even further..and thats not good at all for Average American and American Economy in general.

Also, I don't see these stimulus packages as that bad of a thing for the deficit either. You have to look at the larger picture. Everything gets taxed; income, spending, capital gains. So you get that money, you spend it and pay the sales tax, the company that receives it pays its taxes with that money on the bottome line, that same money gets paid back to the employee as income meaning income tax; and the same cycle over and over again. The worst part of this whole stimulus package is when people get the money and don't spend it and rather save it; than it wouldn't accomplish anything.
oh that would be an ideal case Mehran. but in reality it didnt work that way in the last yr in USA. The Stimulus package was not distributed properly, still its not clear(and cant even be confirmed by govt), how much and where exactly this Stimulus package has been spent so far, and more imp, how many jobs in fact was created as a result of it.

When U.S govt explicitly provides details of Stimulus package expenditure and its results, then we can think ideally..other than that, we can only witness an increasing Unemployment rate despite Stimulus package supposedly creating "Up to 3million jobs" for Americans!

In regards to increase in taxes, I don't see any increase anytime soon. They're simply not stupid enought to stretch the public even more with their budgets in tough times like this. Now, a couple of years from now, when everything is back to it's normal, and all other things being equal I don't mind paying a little higher in taxes. Why? because I rather they did what their doing now so I can still be employed with my employer rather than losing my job then the other option.
oh I hope so Mehran. I really hope so..it would simply be a disaster if they raise taxes now at this time, before full recovery.


btw, here is very interesting Report by a key "govt overseer" which reported on outcome of USA Bailout money so far, and see how it is critical of the bailout outcome, and in what areas:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/overseer-bank-bailout-program-has-mixed-results-2010-01-31

TARP overseer says bank bailout program has mixed results

TARP stabilized system, but bailed out banks lend less; more foreclosures soon


By Ronald D. Orol, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The government's $700 billion bank bailout bill has met its goal of helping bring the financial markets back from the brink, but has so far failed to increase lending from the banks who received the taxpayer assistance, a key government overseer reported Sunday in a generally critical review of the program.
"On the positive side, there are clear signs that aspects of the financial system are far more stable than they were at the height of the crisis in the fall of 2008," according to a quarterly report to Congress submitted by the office of the Special Inspector General for the government's $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program.
The report, which was authored by TARP's Special Inspector General, Neil Barofsky, also warned that the Obama administration's and the Federal Reserve's policies to support the mortgage market could in fact be creating another dangerous housing bubble.
"Stated another way, even if TARP saved our financial system from driving off a cliff back in 2008, absent meaningful reform, we are still driving on the same winding mountain road, but this time in a faster car," said the report.
AM Report: Some Economic Good News

The GDP's bigger-than-expected gain brings good news but there is still caution over if and when the market will tighten, the News Hub panel reports.

The review argues that the TARP program, so far, has failed in many other goals. For example, participating banks' lending to businesses and consumers, has decreased, the report said. The report points out other problems for the TARP program, including continued high unemployment and expanding home foreclosures for the foreseeable future. Read the SIGTARP report.
"Lending continues to decrease, month after month, and the TARP program, designed specifically to address small-business lending -- announced in March 2009 -- has still not been implemented by Treasury," according to the report.
It pointed out that the Obama administration's mortgage modification program for troubled homeowners has so far only helped a small fraction of the three to four million homeowners the Treasury Department hopes it will assist. Read about changes made to the White House's mortgage modification program.
Could we be creating another housing bubble?

In the report, Barofsky indicated that the government's emergency lending programs could re-inflate the housing bubble that helped create the financial crisis.
"To the extent that the crisis was fueled by a "bubble" in the housing market, the Federal government's concerted efforts to support home prices risk re-inflating that bubble in light of the government's effective takeover of the housing market through purchases and guarantees, either direct or implicit, of nearly all of the residential mortgage market," the report said.
The report charges that high prices for homes between 2004 and 2007 were the result of unrealistic expectations for house values, low interest rates, in-accurate high ratings for mortgage securities, lax standards by lenders for mortgages.
It argues that that the Federal Reserve could be creating another housing bubble with its response to the crisis by keeping short-term and long-term interest rates low, setting up programs to support the mortgage market that also keep rates low, as well as a first-time homebuyer tax credit and a program near completion to purchase $1.25 trillion in mortgage-backed securities.
"Because increasing access to credit increases the pool of potential home buyers, increasing access to credit boosts home prices," the report wrote. "The Federal Reserve can thus boost home prices by either lowering general interest rates or purchasing mortgages and mortgage-backed securities."
"Both actions, which the Federal Reserve is pursuing, have the effect of lowering interest rates, which increases demand by permitting borrowers to afford a higher home price on a given income. Similarly, the administration is boosting home prices by encouraging bank lending and by instituting purchase incentives such as the First-Time Homebuyer Tax Credit. All of these actions increase the demand for homes, which increases home prices," said the report.
However, critics argue that long-term interest rates could increase in response to the Fed's decision to wrap up its $1.25 trillion mortgage-backed securities purchase program by March 31, along with other federal actions, could result in higher interest rates at a time where many regions continue to experience a depressed housing market and record foreclosures.
 

Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
#33
Mehran, I think u misunderstood me. I didnt say "obama should reduce the deficit Now, at this time, AND help an ailing economy." USA Economy have simply not recovered yet, so it just doesnt make sense to think about reducing deficit now(and bc of it sorting to different routs such as increasing taxes, eliminating/reducing public programs,etc).

I criticized obama's recent statement about raising taxes soon in USA. As said, its only natural when all countries raise their taxes/reduce program costs, to make up for huge deficits, but USA economy is behind lots of leading Economies right now. so really there is no point in rushing into thinking far ahead, after recovery as of now!



oh of course thats the reason dollar is devalued right now, but also the fact that not only USA Central Bank have printed much more $ than lots of other leading Economies, but also bc of carring on and facing increased deficit, again much larger than other leading Economies. so thats why US $ right now is much weaker than other major currencies. Its not like other foreign countries' currencies have improved, its US $'s curreny that is losing its value vs almost other currencies. but lets 30 if there is any end to it?

hopefully it is, bc if in fact Obama is thinking about devaluating US$ even more(as stupid Bush was doing for last few yrs) to increase export(if he is in fact serious about doubling Export level in 5 yrs as he just announced), then that means US $ devaluating even further..and thats not good at all for Average American and American Economy in general.



oh that would be an ideal case Mehran. but in reality it didnt work that way in the last yr in USA. The Stimulus package was not distributed properly, still its not clear(and cant even be confirmed by govt), how much and where exactly this Stimulus package has been spent so far, and more imp, how many jobs in fact was created as a result of it.

When U.S govt explicitly provides details of Stimulus package expenditure and its results, then we can think ideally..other than that, we can only witness an increasing Unemployment rate despite Stimulus package supposedly creating "Up to 3million jobs" for Americans!



oh I hope so Mehran. I really hope so..it would simply be a disaster if they raise taxes now at this time, before full recovery.


btw, here is very interesting Report by a key "govt overseer" which reported on outcome of USA Bailout money so far, and see how it is critical of the bailout outcome, and in what areas:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/overseer-bank-bailout-program-has-mixed-results-2010-01-31

TARP overseer says bank bailout program has mixed results

TARP stabilized system, but bailed out banks lend less; more foreclosures soon


By Ronald D. Orol, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The government's $700 billion bank bailout bill has met its goal of helping bring the financial markets back from the brink, but has so far failed to increase lending from the banks who received the taxpayer assistance, a key government overseer reported Sunday in a generally critical review of the program.
"On the positive side, there are clear signs that aspects of the financial system are far more stable than they were at the height of the crisis in the fall of 2008," according to a quarterly report to Congress submitted by the office of the Special Inspector General for the government's $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program.
The report, which was authored by TARP's Special Inspector General, Neil Barofsky, also warned that the Obama administration's and the Federal Reserve's policies to support the mortgage market could in fact be creating another dangerous housing bubble.
"Stated another way, even if TARP saved our financial system from driving off a cliff back in 2008, absent meaningful reform, we are still driving on the same winding mountain road, but this time in a faster car," said the report.
AM Report: Some Economic Good News

The GDP's bigger-than-expected gain brings good news but there is still caution over if and when the market will tighten, the News Hub panel reports.

The review argues that the TARP program, so far, has failed in many other goals. For example, participating banks' lending to businesses and consumers, has decreased, the report said. The report points out other problems for the TARP program, including continued high unemployment and expanding home foreclosures for the foreseeable future. Read the SIGTARP report.
"Lending continues to decrease, month after month, and the TARP program, designed specifically to address small-business lending -- announced in March 2009 -- has still not been implemented by Treasury," according to the report.
It pointed out that the Obama administration's mortgage modification program for troubled homeowners has so far only helped a small fraction of the three to four million homeowners the Treasury Department hopes it will assist. Read about changes made to the White House's mortgage modification program.
Could we be creating another housing bubble?

In the report, Barofsky indicated that the government's emergency lending programs could re-inflate the housing bubble that helped create the financial crisis.
"To the extent that the crisis was fueled by a "bubble" in the housing market, the Federal government's concerted efforts to support home prices risk re-inflating that bubble in light of the government's effective takeover of the housing market through purchases and guarantees, either direct or implicit, of nearly all of the residential mortgage market," the report said.
The report charges that high prices for homes between 2004 and 2007 were the result of unrealistic expectations for house values, low interest rates, in-accurate high ratings for mortgage securities, lax standards by lenders for mortgages.
It argues that that the Federal Reserve could be creating another housing bubble with its response to the crisis by keeping short-term and long-term interest rates low, setting up programs to support the mortgage market that also keep rates low, as well as a first-time homebuyer tax credit and a program near completion to purchase $1.25 trillion in mortgage-backed securities.
"Because increasing access to credit increases the pool of potential home buyers, increasing access to credit boosts home prices," the report wrote. "The Federal Reserve can thus boost home prices by either lowering general interest rates or purchasing mortgages and mortgage-backed securities."
"Both actions, which the Federal Reserve is pursuing, have the effect of lowering interest rates, which increases demand by permitting borrowers to afford a higher home price on a given income. Similarly, the administration is boosting home prices by encouraging bank lending and by instituting purchase incentives such as the First-Time Homebuyer Tax Credit. All of these actions increase the demand for homes, which increases home prices," said the report.
However, critics argue that long-term interest rates could increase in response to the Fed's decision to wrap up its $1.25 trillion mortgage-backed securities purchase program by March 31, along with other federal actions, could result in higher interest rates at a time where many regions continue to experience a depressed housing market and record foreclosures.
I think the one thing that were all getting confused about is what was to happen if all of the stuff that Obama did, somebody else didn't? Would the unemployment rate be 25% just like it was at the great depression? would all the major banks collapse? would there be food lines to feed the homeless? I personally thing this was a 18 wheeler semi truck heading for disaster; because of the past administrator's decision and it would of been much worst than what were seeing right now if the right percaussions weren't put in place. Eventhoough it meant to increase the deficit, devalude the dollar, or raise the taxes in near feauture. Again, we need to stop thinking about would you have not good and okay in future, or really really bad right now?

That's what people need to understand, I personally believe that if all of the stuff that Obama did wasn't done we would of been in a much more bigger hole. Maybe I'm biase in my thinking but whose to tell.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#34
I think the one thing that were all getting confused about is what was to happen if all of the stuff that Obama did, somebody else didn't? Would the unemployment rate be 25% just like it was at the great depression? would all the major banks collapse? would there be food lines to feed the homeless? I personally thing this was a 18 wheeler semi truck heading for disaster; because of the past administrator's decision and it would of been much worst than what were seeing right now if the right percaussions weren't put in place. Eventhoough it meant to increase the deficit, devalude the dollar, or raise the taxes in near feauture. Again, we need to stop thinking about would you have not good and okay in future, or really really bad right now?

That's what people need to understand, I personally believe that if all of the stuff that Obama did wasn't done we would of been in a much more bigger hole. Maybe I'm biase in my thinking but whose to tell.
oh no Im not suggesting anyone other than Obama would do a better or job anything..vali adam delesh misoozeh Mehran. A politician, as smart, educated, well-behaving person like Obama(with great ethics most of the time), and more importantly with such a high popularity vote, specially gaining so much popular vote by American young generation(which really was a record in USA politics, wasnt it?!), gets to the office and then unintentionally makes poor decision-making and mistakes that G.W.Bush was making..

vaghean heyfeh..cuz the last thing u want, is Obama mismanaging crisis as he seems to be doing now, and in 3-4 yrs time, all opponents and even Democrats call him "An inexperienced President that got to White House sooner than he should have." :confused:

ie, u know how Obama just perfectly(and I really admired him here in isp for doing that in his first day: ordering to close Guantanamo Bay n hold fair trials in American soil), which was really a great and needed initiative. but guess how much its gonna cost YOU, American taxpayers to finally put an end to these suspects' cases? $200 million(from taxpayers' money) in new budget! read this recent news that "Obama seeks $200mil in his new Budget to help cities host 9/11 trials."


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama...&.pf=personal-finance&mod=pf-personal-finance

Obama seeks $200M to help cities host 9/11 trials

Obama seeks $200M to help with security costs for cities hosting trials of Sept. 11 suspects
so really, dont assume Im hating obama or anything, or Im criticizing his current policies bc I like Republicans or anything, thats NOT true at all..I always try(my best!) to look at all rules-legislation-policies from a Neutral point of view(not as a blind Obama supporter, or a blind Republican party supporter cuz thats just wrong). So as a Neutral point of view, I really think obama can do a lot better than his current approach, even considering the huge crisis at hand.

again thanks for ur great discussion Mehran! I really enjoyed it too. I just wish all the best for Americans and you Iranian-Americans who live there. :)
 

westwienmaskulin

News Team, ISP Managers Team, ISP Podcast Team
Oct 18, 2002
36,645
1
41
Av. Aristide Maillol, BCN
#35
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama-...rsonal-finance

Obama seeks $200M to help cities host 9/11 trials

Obama seeks $200M to help with security costs for cities hosting trials of Sept. 11 suspects
That's the next thing. Sorry, but you realize that they are held in Guantanamo Bay without a trial and are considered guilty before proven innocent, which is one of the main reasons GB is such an issue on human rights and one of the main reasons it's difficult to close the camp, don't you?
So the fact that he pushes trials forward to clear their cases would actually make it easier to close that camp.
I mean...FFS...why do you think is GB such an issue at all and what do you expect them to do with all those people detained? Throw them in the ocean and tell them to swim back?
 

Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
#36
oh no Im not suggesting anyone other than Obama would do a better or job anything..vali adam delesh misoozeh Mehran. A politician, as smart, educated, well-behaving person like Obama(with great ethics most of the time), and more importantly with such a high popularity vote, specially gaining so much popular vote by American young generation(which really was a record in USA politics, wasnt it?!), gets to the office and then unintentionally makes poor decision-making and mistakes that G.W.Bush was making..

vaghean heyfeh..cuz the last thing u want, is Obama mismanaging crisis as he seems to be doing now, and in 3-4 yrs time, all opponents and even Democrats call him "An inexperienced President that got to White House sooner than he should have." :confused:

ie, u know how Obama just perfectly(and I really admired him here in isp for doing that in his first day: ordering to close Guantanamo Bay n hold fair trials in American soil), which was really a great and needed initiative. but guess how much its gonna cost YOU, American taxpayers to finally put an end to these suspects' cases? $200 million(from taxpayers' money) in new budget! read this recent news that "Obama seeks $200mil in his new Budget to help cities host 9/11 trials."




so really, dont assume Im hating obama or anything, or Im criticizing his current policies bc I like Republicans or anything, thats NOT true at all..I always try(my best!) to look at all rules-legislation-policies from a Neutral point of view(not as a blind Obama supporter, or a blind Republican party supporter cuz thats just wrong). So as a Neutral point of view, I really think obama can do a lot better than his current approach, even considering the huge crisis at hand.

again thanks for ur great discussion Mehran! I really enjoyed it too. I just wish all the best for Americans and you Iranian-Americans who live there. :)

Here's where we have to agree to disagree. What you call poor decisions and policies I see as the best option for that scenario. We can't just say he shouldn't of done this and that costs too much without putting another option in front of him that would worked better. What would you or anyone else suggests that he should of done to save the banks and creat some cash flow? Nothing? Nothing is not a option because doing nothing is catastrophic and the collapse of the back bone of the U.S economy.

I think he said the best thing I've heard a politician say in his State of the Union speech; there period where he talked for 6 or8 minutes without interruptions. He basically said that politicians shouldn't just do whats popular to do just to get better poll numbers and to get re-elected. Their jobs aren't to get re-elected but to choose the best option to fix a problem. So, some of the things aren't the most popular but the best option and everyone needs to realize it.
 

khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,458
88
Atlanta
#37
This brave, great, and independent leader of yours, basically is saying with a straight face that he'll follow whatever environmental policy US will come up with:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/01/30/prentice-emission-target.html

So basically when many US "states" find US environmental policies inadequate and shortsighted and opt to go alone, all Harper can do is to follow the master with closed eyes! Very brave and avant-garde ...
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#38
I'm disgusted with myself, I actually kinda agree with Niloufar here. Not with bullshit about Obama being well-behaved/intended, but that to call what Obama has done thus far a success is a stretch to say the least. It'll depend on your economic philosophies so it's pointless getting into the nitty gritty with some people here. In the end, the answers will be more clear in a couple of years, not necessarily now. And you can decrease the deficit without even getting into economic policies; stop warmongering or warring with other countries. Reduce the military; that'll save billions upon billions of dollars. These wars were never for the protection of the American people.

And Westi, you keep being like me, as Niloufar says...handsome, intelligent, etc. :p