Vaccination Debate

R.BAGGIO

National Team Player
Oct 19, 2002
5,702
0
Toronto
#1
I wanted to ask the opinions of the scientists, doctors or anybody else knowledgeable about the subject on this board about vaccination. Is there any weight to the arguments anti-vaccination people make. I honestly don't know much about biology, genetics, etc and I am not invested enough in the subject to do my own research.

So please go ahead and enlighten me on the subject. My natural disposition is to trust experts, so I am pro vaccination but I just don't have enough knowledge to argue my case.
 

kasra1930

National Team Player
Dec 30, 2011
5,870
1,366
#2
جناب آقای باجیو،واکسیناسیون از نون شب هم واجب تر است.همانطور که اطلاع دارید،در بچها،واکسن فلج اطفال،کزاز،سیاه سرفه،هپاتیت،از واجبات است.اما در بزرگسالان،معمولان،آنچه که بسیار اهمیت دارد،واکسن هپاتیت،می***باشد،بخصوص در جوانان،و آنهای که در معرض تماس با خون هستند،دیگر اینکه در آنهای که در تماس جنسی*** هستند حتما باید این واکسن را بزنند.علاوه بر این افردیر سنّ از ۶۵ سال زیادتر است،باید،واکسن فلو،و پنومونیا را زد،بخصوص اگر کسانی*** دچار دیابت،برونشیت مزمن،سرطان،و یا اختلالات سیستم ایمنی*** باشند.حدود یک سال هم است که در آمریکا،واکسن زونا را هم به افراد بالای ۶۵ سال میزنند.حالا بستگی به سوال شما،و نوع واکسن دارد،اگر میتوانید،سوالتان را جمع جورتر بپرسید،بهتر می***تونم جواب دهم.
 

R.BAGGIO

National Team Player
Oct 19, 2002
5,702
0
Toronto
#3
جناب آقای باجیو،واکسیناسیون از نون شب هم واجب تر است.همانطور که اطلاع دارید،در بچها،واکسن فلج اطفال،کزاز،سیاه سرفه،هپاتیت،از واجبات است.اما در بزرگسالان،معمولان،آنچه که بسیار اهمیت دارد،واکسن هپاتیت،می***باشد،بخصوص در جوانان،و آنهای که در معرض تماس با خون هستند،دیگر اینکه در آنهای که در تماس جنسی*** هستند حتما باید این واکسن را بزنند.علاوه بر این افردیر سنّ از ۶۵ سال زیادتر است،باید،واکسن فلو،و پنومونیا را زد،بخصوص اگر کسانی*** دچار دیابت،برونشیت مزمن،سرطان،و یا اختلالات سیستم ایمنی*** باشند.حدود یک سال هم است که در آمریکا،واکسن زونا را هم به افراد بالای ۶۵ سال میزنند.حالا بستگی به سوال شما،و نوع واکسن دارد،اگر میتوانید،سوالتان را جمع جورتر بپرسید،بهتر می***تونم جواب دهم.
Kasra jan, thanks for the answer. This is the view I hold but there are people who argue against vaccines. There has been outbreaks of measles in Canada as a result. Now some of these people are unfortunately my friends so I am hesitant to call them morons before I have all the facts, haha

Here is a link

http://www.fhfn.org/50-reasons-not-to-vaccinate-your-children/
 

kasra1930

National Team Player
Dec 30, 2011
5,870
1,366
#4
Kasra jan, thanks for the answer. This is the view I hold but there are people who argue against vaccines. There has been outbreaks of measles in Canada as a result. Now some of these people are unfortunately my friends so I am hesitant to call them morons before I have all the facts, haha

Here is a link

http://www.fhfn.org/50-reasons-not-to-vaccinate-your-children/

آقای باجیو عزیز،من یک پزشک فوق تخصص هستم که در دانشگاه هاروارد تحصیل کردم،و برای ۵ سال در مونترال،کانادا،به امر طبابت مشغول بودم،و الان در آمریکا استاد دانشگاه هستم.علّتی که خود را معرفی*** می***کنم،برای این است که من را خوب بشناسید تا بتوانید روی حرفم حساب باز کنید.هر روز از این مقالات در روزنامه***ها چاپ میشود،از طرفی*** دیگر دکترهای علفی،مثل دکتر،خوشبین که در تورنتو،هستند،و یا اون انسان نامردی که مردم را روی عدم اطلاعات سرکیسه کرد و رفت بنام اکبری،که روضه میخاند،و یا دکتر خوبان در تورنتو،اینها یک مشت انسانهای هستند،که عاری از اخلاق پزشکی*** هستند.

من این مقاله را مطالعه کرده ام،تحت هیچ شرایطی،اسیر اینگونه مقالات نشوید،علم ثابت کرده است،که باید این کار را انجام داد.حالا اگر سوالی است بفرمائید.
 

kasra1930

National Team Player
Dec 30, 2011
5,870
1,366
#5
این مقاله از نظر علم پزشکی*** بسیار نارس است.از عوارض جانبی واکسنها گفته است.می***خواهم برایتان یک مثالی بزنم تا منظورم را متوجه شوید.این عین این حالت است که به شما بگویند از منزلتان خارج نشوید چرا که اگر یک وقت از اینطرف خیابان به اون طرف بروید،امکان این است که ماشین شما را زیر کند هست.پس اینطور باشد شما باید تمامی*** عمرتان را در خونه باشید و اینجا جمب نخورید.اما در عمل به بیرون می***روید،تا حالا هم ماشین به شما نزده است.عوارض واکسیناسیون هم عین همین رفتن از این ور خیابان به اونور می***باشد.تازه قبل از هر وکسیناسینی،پشک مسول،چندین سوال از شما می***کند که ببیند،بیماریهای خاصی*** ناداشته باشید،که بعد موجب عوارضی شود.روی همین اصل،اطمینان کنید،و حتما به حرف پزشکتان گوش دهید.


ببخشید از غلط املائی،منظور از پشک مسول،پزشک مسئول است
 

Sly

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
28,748
878
#6
Kasra jan, thanks for the answer. This is the view I hold but there are people who argue against vaccines. There has been outbreaks of measles in Canada as a result. Now some of these people are unfortunately my friends so I am hesitant to call them morons before I have all the facts, haha

Here is a link

http://www.fhfn.org/50-reasons-not-to-vaccinate-your-children/
Baggio jan, as Kasra says, the side effects are 1 out of a million! I stopped reading after the second/third point in that link actually.

The bellow video has been circulating around internet for a good while. Some people say it's fake but what ever it is, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the vaccine she took and if it really was due to the vaccine, it happens extremely rarely.

[video=youtube;5ztiAN9k584]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584[/video]
 

Sly

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
28,748
878
#7
BTW, the chance of getting the side effects is less than an airplane falling down from the sky. If your friends argue not to take vaccines, then you can tell them never to take a trip with airplanes either! ;)
 

kasra1930

National Team Player
Dec 30, 2011
5,870
1,366
#8
Baggio jan, as Kasra says, the side effects are 1 out of a million! I stopped reading after the second/third point in that link actually.

The bellow video has been circulating around internet for a good while. Some people say it's fake but what ever it is, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the vaccine she took and if it really was due to the vaccine, it happens extremely rarely.



[video=youtube;5ztiAN9k584]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584[/video]

متشکرم،استاد.بسیار ویدئو جالبی*** بود.
 

Fatso

Captain
Oct 1, 2004
8,122
205
#10
I don't know much about the anti vaccination debate but if a bimbo like jenny McCarthy support it, that says a lot.
 

TeamMeli

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2014
9,312
313
Las Vegas, NV
#12
Not a scientist or doctor but I was an engineering management and journalism major in college. Here was a good article I found from Scientific American, which is well respected in academia.
[video]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/straight-talk-about-vaccination/[/video] I thought it was an unbiased article and here is the whole article.
Last year 10 children died in California in the worst whooping cough outbreak to sweep the state since 1947. In the first six months of 2011, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recorded 10 measles outbreaks—the largest of which (21 cases) occurred in a Minnesota county, where many children were unvaccinated because of parental concerns about the safety of the standard MMR vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella. At least seven infants in the county who were too young to receive the MMR vaccine were infected.

These troubling statistics show that the failure to vaccinate children endangers both the health of children themselves as well as others who would not be exposed to preventable illness if the community as a whole were better protected. Equally troubling, the number of deliberately unvaccinated children has grown large enough that it may be fueling more severe outbreaks. In a recent survey of more than 1,500 parents, one quarter held the mistaken belief that vaccines can cause autism in healthy children, and more than one in 10 had refused at least one recommended vaccine.

This sad state of affairs exists because parents have been persistently and insidiously misled by information in the press and on the Internet and because the health care system has not effectively communicated the counterarguments, which are powerful. Physicians and other health experts can no longer just assume that parents will readily agree to childhood inoculations and leave any discussion about the potential risks and benefits to the last minute. They need to be more proactive, provide better information and engage parents much earlier than is usually the case.

Peril of Business as Usual
Right now pediatricians typically bring up the need for vaccines during the well-baby checkup held about two months after birth. That visit has a jam-packed agenda. In the usual 20 minutes allotted for the appointment, the physician must learn the answers to many questions, of which the following are but a sample: How many times is the baby waking to feed at night? Is the child feeding well? Where do measurements of height, weight and head circumference fall on a standard growth chart? Do the parents know how and when to introduce solid food and how to safely lay the child down to sleep? Are various reflexes good? Can the sounds of a heart murmur be heard through the stethoscope? Are the hip joints fitting properly in their sockets, or are they dislocated?

Generally in the final seconds of the visit, assuming all has gone well to this point, the doctor mentions the required schedule for six recommended inoculations: the first DTaP shot (for diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis, also known as whooping cough), the polio shot, a second hepatitis B shot (the first having been given in the first few days after birth), the pneumococcal conjugate shot (for bacterial pneumonia and meningitis), the HiB shot (for another type of meningitis) and finally the rotavirus vaccine (to prevent a severe diarrheal infection). This is the point in the visit at which more and more pediatricians report a disheartening turn of events: although most parents agree to the inoculations without hesitation, a growing number say they would like to delay or even refuse some or all of the vaccinations for their infants.

A proper conversation that respects the reluctant parents’ concerns, answers their questions and reassures them that the inoculations are indeed necessary—that countless studies by hundreds of researchers over many decades have shown that vaccinations save millions of lives—will likely take at least another 20 minutes. Meanwhile, though, other families sit in the waiting room, itching for their own well-baby checkups to start.

This all too common scene should never happen. Having this discussion at the two-month well-baby visit is too late. By then, parents may have read about any issues on the Web or chatted with other moms and dads in the park. Discussion with medical professionals should begin long before, usually during, or even prior to, the pregnancy. The evidence summarized below should form the basis for these exchanges.

Please note that this is not from some religious website and I have no problems with religion but when it comes to medical issues, you need to read a scientific journal or article.
 

kasra1930

National Team Player
Dec 30, 2011
5,870
1,366
#13
I had the pleasure of meeting Kasra briefly in Montreal, not only he is a great Dr., he is also a walking Encyclopedia when it comes to football. chakeram Kasra jaan.[/QUOTE

]مخلصم،پویا جان.شما سرور من هستید.
 

Behrang(ISP)

King of Posts
Oct 16, 2002
12,621
0
www.iransportspress.com
#14
I've been doing a bit of reading up on the whole debate mainly because i'm expecting my first kid in the next 5/6 weeks so it's important. I could not find anything that could convince me that not getting vaccinated is the right thing to do. Almost all the things the anti-vaccination camp has said has been rebuked by medical association after another.
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#15
I think a big point re the anti-vac people is not simply the utility in getting vaccinated but the questions of individual rights - not being forced to medicate and having the right to abstain.
 

ashtar

National Team Player
Aug 17, 2003
5,448
19
#16
The problem with both pro and anti vaccination camps is that they both tend to speak in absolutes. The anti-vaccination camp tends to dismiss the benefits of all vaccinations based on a few anecdotal cases and on the flip side the pro-vaccination camp (mostly physicians and pharmaceutical companies) try to defend all vaccinations by clumping older vaccinations backed by solid data (such as polio) with those new vaccines with minimal to no data (such as the yearly flu vaccines).

IMO, as a rule of thumb, most scheduled vaccinations recommended by the medical societies are necessary or at least their benefits clearly outweigh the harm or some anecdotal side effects, if any. There are certainly some solid retrospective studies that prove or at least back the benefits of these vaccinations, many of which have been in practice for many decades now.

Unfortunately however, the medical field, especially the pharmaceutical aspect of it, like any other aspect of modern life is not immune to the temptations of the world of finance. And where there are large amounts of money at stake one would be wise to look at the claims and provided data with a grain of salt.
 

Fatso

Captain
Oct 1, 2004
8,122
205
#17
I think a big point re the anti-vac people is not simply the utility in getting vaccinated but the questions of individual rights - not being forced to medicate and having the right to abstain.
But we're talking about children mostly are we not?
 

Sly

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
28,748
878
#18
But we're talking about children mostly are we not?
Yeah but he means children grow up and maybe they'd like to decide whether to have vaccine or not, rather than being forced to when they were infants!
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#19
But we're talking about children mostly are we not?
Yes, but the same principles apply - regardless of whether you're talking about the right to choose as the child or on their behalf as parents.

Personally, I find both arguments to be accurate and agreeable, hence the problem.