It all depends on one thing, and Mehdi kinda touched on it. If it gets to a point where there is economic exchange between the two countries it becomes a growing snowball that's very hard to contain. There is way too much money to be made from economic activity between the two countries and once the kleptocrats in Iran get to smell this money it will be really hard to keep them away from it. Same with American corporations, they will lobby like crazy to keep trade going.
I agree. What these idiot US companies don't recognize is how prized the Made in USA label is in Iran and elsewhere. People are willing to pay whatever it takes. I am always asked to bring home "American" goods. People are still driving 35 years old Novas and Buicks and they swear by them. You drive around in a new Camaro in Tehran and watch what happens.
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Well,you thought Wrong which is not surprising 
By the way try to understand the definition of citizenship. You are citizen of Iran and not the ruling government
By the way try to understand the definition of citizenship. You are citizen of Iran and not the ruling government
Eshkal nadare beriz biroon dada, hameye oghdehato beriz biroon. Darket mikonam
There are many countries nearby which lose in short run so they will try to hurt any potential, that includes Israel, Qatar, Turkey, Saudis, and UAE. But then, US and Iran are well aware of this. Skilled workers, domestic science and technology, cheap energy, strategic trade location, and top it with American enterprise will be a mouthwatering opportunity for everyone and will eclipse any other regional economic power. Once big guys are involved in business in Iran, the whole region including akhoonds will transform to better.
Bazi kardan base dige Shahin kaka. Vaghteshe ke roo koni cheghadr hypocrite va double face hasti
Eshkal nadare beriz biroon dada, hameye oghdehato beriz biroon. Darket mikonam
Eshkal nadare beriz biroon dada, hameye oghdehato beriz biroon. Darket mikonam
Dada, Kaka, Jojol, jojeh Chiye Tazi farsi harf zadan yad gerefti hypocrite, double face, oghdehi, spy of Zionist, arab lover, agent of biritish, beriz biron, and .... where do you get these from pal ? stop reading Fars news.
As I said before, guys like you think it is still early 60s in Iran that if you are not Hezzi, you can not go back and enjoy your money
Ask around aziz, everyone can go back and forth and enjoy their money in Iran as a vacation destination and thanks to 3000+ dollars , do it cheap too
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18 000 , 18 000 000 won't make a difference if you don't have the facilities to convert it to electricity.
Where are the nuclear powered plants that produce electricity and how many mega watts?
What was the purpose of cutting bread from iranian meals to have these centrifuges spinning like derwishes ...
where is the fucking electricity?
lol this reminds me of a quote my HERFE O FAN teacher made a year and half after revolution about jahad e sazandegi:
"we used to have one tractor ploughing the field (during shah's regime) so 20 farmers could attend classes about soil, irrigation and pesticides. Now we have 15 farmers on the field doing the work of the tractor and classes have been closed.
this is the beginning of the end of mechanized and industrialized profitable farming and the start of dependence on food banks."
How prophetic (excuse the word) SHE was thirty years ago.
Where are the nuclear powered plants that produce electricity and how many mega watts?
What was the purpose of cutting bread from iranian meals to have these centrifuges spinning like derwishes ...
where is the fucking electricity?
lol this reminds me of a quote my HERFE O FAN teacher made a year and half after revolution about jahad e sazandegi:
"we used to have one tractor ploughing the field (during shah's regime) so 20 farmers could attend classes about soil, irrigation and pesticides. Now we have 15 farmers on the field doing the work of the tractor and classes have been closed.
this is the beginning of the end of mechanized and industrialized profitable farming and the start of dependence on food banks."
How prophetic (excuse the word) SHE was thirty years ago.
There is of course another possibility Siavash jaan and that's one that Mahdi and FZ touched on. Knowing how few optimists we have left on ISP I usually try to reserve those types of comments until after a few other friends have come out of the optimists' closet! :hug:
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That other possibility is that this was an underwater earthquake (a significant event with no visible effects), creating a huge socio-political and economic tsunami that will only be felt when it reaches the shore. If the event was/is significant enough, it would be tough to imagine how it would not be a devastating one for those "death to America" huts who have been selling Sandis on the beach and telling the story of a Great Satan for the last 35 years.
Much like Rio in Brazil - another country whose citizens suffered immensely under a military dictatorship - the citizens have been overlooking the pristine and seemingly calm waters of Sandis Beach from their shanty town in the hills. For 35 years, they have wandered down to the beach to hear about the myth of a far-away Great Satan from these Sandis hut owners... The stories of the hateful white man that came to Iran to steal her oil; the hateful white man that uprooted the poor from their shanties in another far away land and helped build big castles called "Zionism" where those shanties once stood; and the same white man that all but killed the great hero of the Iranian nation some 60 years ago. Perhaps, this myth would not have turned into the best selling story that it is today, without the cathartic images of those hateful white men being escorted out of their "spy den" on Sandis Beach, blind-folded, weak and humiliated - defeated at the hands of a legendary hero who would one day bring justice and wealth to the shanties of Hassan Abad...
As the ripples of that Tsunami reach the shores, the distant sound of sirens from Sandis Beach can now be heard in the old and broken shanty town. On the beach, there's talk of a Satanic storm of Quranic proportions among the panicked hut owners. But on the narrow alleys of Hassan Abad, a different rumour is circulating... that a great hero by the name of Hassan has travelled from the base of the Alborz mountains to the land of the Great Satan only to find a friendly black man where the hateful white man was supposed to live. There's lots of murmurs and questions being asked... Could the legend of Sandis, told for all those years, be untrue? Where is the Great Satan and the hateful white man? What became of that hero foretold to bring justice and wealth to the streets of Hassan Abad? And Where is the justice and wealth, if not in the hands of those same people who have been selling that story?!
But there's also excitement and anticipation there because of an old Iranian legend, all but forgotten, about a man named Fereydun, also having lived at the base of the Alborz mountains, who brought wealth and justice to the world and freed her citizens from the shackles of a superstitious and blood-sucking villain who had brought down the son of a blacksmith. Could this son of a blacksmith be the same man who travelled down from the shanty hills of Hassan Abad to challenge those hut owners 8 years ago? What became of him and the free bags of rice and potatoes he used to send to Hassan Abad? And what happened to his best friend that so many years ago claimed that the far away land was our friend and not the Great Satan? Could he have been telling the truth and is that why he was frowned upon and sidelined by those hut owners? Could he be the same Esfandyar from the old Iranian legend blessed by the heavens whose enemies would suffer a cursed life of bad omens until the day they died?!
It is hard to tell if anything but small waves will hit the shores of Sandis Beach... But the citizens of Hassan Abad are nonetheless empowered and excited for now, looking down at the beach from the safety of the hills on which their humble homes sit, they listen to the sounds of the sirens from down below and wonder to themselves which legend they should believe in - the one full of lies and fury or one that foretells of a bright future and grand homes built on a beach that once housed the charlatans selling the legend of Sandis - rearranged by the heavens in a storm that will forever be remembered...
I usually try to reserve those types of comments until after a few other friends have come out of the optimists' closet! :hug:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That other possibility is that this was an underwater earthquake (a significant event with no visible effects), creating a huge socio-political and economic tsunami that will only be felt when it reaches the shore. If the event was/is significant enough, it would be tough to imagine how it would not be a devastating one for those "death to America" huts who have been selling Sandis on the beach and telling the story of a Great Satan for the last 35 years.
Much like Rio in Brazil - another country whose citizens suffered immensely under a military dictatorship - the citizens have been overlooking the pristine and seemingly calm waters of Sandis Beach from their shanty town in the hills. For 35 years, they have wandered down to the beach to hear about the myth of a far-away Great Satan from these Sandis hut owners... The stories of the hateful white man that came to Iran to steal her oil; the hateful white man that uprooted the poor from their shanties in another far away land and helped build big castles called "Zionism" where those shanties once stood; and the same white man that all but killed the great hero of the Iranian nation some 60 years ago. Perhaps, this myth would not have turned into the best selling story that it is today, without the cathartic images of those hateful white men being escorted out of their "spy den" on Sandis Beach, blind-folded, weak and humiliated - defeated at the hands of a legendary hero who would one day bring justice and wealth to the shanties of Hassan Abad...
As the ripples of that Tsunami reach the shores, the distant sound of sirens from Sandis Beach can now be heard in the old and broken shanty town. On the beach, there's talk of a Satanic storm of Quranic proportions among the panicked hut owners. But on the narrow alleys of Hassan Abad, a different rumour is circulating... that a great hero by the name of Hassan has travelled from the base of the Alborz mountains to the land of the Great Satan only to find a friendly black man where the hateful white man was supposed to live. There's lots of murmurs and questions being asked... Could the legend of Sandis, told for all those years, be untrue? Where is the Great Satan and the hateful white man? What became of that hero foretold to bring justice and wealth to the streets of Hassan Abad? And Where is the justice and wealth, if not in the hands of those same people who have been selling that story?!
But there's also excitement and anticipation there because of an old Iranian legend, all but forgotten, about a man named Fereydun, also having lived at the base of the Alborz mountains, who brought wealth and justice to the world and freed her citizens from the shackles of a superstitious and blood-sucking villain who had brought down the son of a blacksmith. Could this son of a blacksmith be the same man who travelled down from the shanty hills of Hassan Abad to challenge those hut owners 8 years ago? What became of him and the free bags of rice and potatoes he used to send to Hassan Abad? And what happened to his best friend that so many years ago claimed that the far away land was our friend and not the Great Satan? Could he have been telling the truth and is that why he was frowned upon and sidelined by those hut owners? Could he be the same Esfandyar from the old Iranian legend blessed by the heavens whose enemies would suffer a cursed life of bad omens until the day they died?!
It is hard to tell if anything but small waves will hit the shores of Sandis Beach... But the citizens of Hassan Abad are nonetheless empowered and excited for now, looking down at the beach from the safety of the hills on which their humble homes sit, they listen to the sounds of the sirens from down below and wonder to themselves which legend they should believe in - the one full of lies and fury or one that foretells of a bright future and grand homes built on a beach that once housed the charlatans selling the legend of Sandis - rearranged by the heavens in a storm that will forever be remembered...
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You won't see anything like the Tienanmen square massacere again in China, or they don't have policies such as those they had during their cultural revolution. Villagers can move around more easily. There is at least reporting and accountability of some of the lower level politicians.
As for USSR, the entire system has changed. Say what you will, but someone like Garry Kasparov had he been as outspoken as he is now would have disappeared 35 years ago, whereas now he can still live in Russia, despite having many enemies.
Both don't have labor camps where you are worked to death any longer.
No one is saying they're fully functioning democracies, but they are much better off now than they were 30 years ago.
As for USSR, the entire system has changed. Say what you will, but someone like Garry Kasparov had he been as outspoken as he is now would have disappeared 35 years ago, whereas now he can still live in Russia, despite having many enemies.
Both don't have labor camps where you are worked to death any longer.
No one is saying they're fully functioning democracies, but they are much better off now than they were 30 years ago.
really? are we arguing now whether China and Russia are more democratic and people have more freedom compared to 1989? LOL
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/29/china-shanghai-free-trade-zone
Sure something like that would have happened in 1989 too..
Seriously....to argue that economic prosperity doesn't lead to democratic improvement....in 2013...LOL
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/29/china-shanghai-free-trade-zone
Sure something like that would have happened in 1989 too..
Seriously....to argue that economic prosperity doesn't lead to democratic improvement....in 2013...LOL
So let me summarize your post :
No public massacre, accountability for low level officials and lack of labour camp after 24 years of so called "open door " policy.
In the mean time ex KGB officer is still in power and there were wide evidence of cheating and intimidation of oppositions in the last election, economic corruption and mafia ever growing and ordinary russians suffering while their daughters are the top rated whores in gulf Countries and Turkey and ....
As far as China goes, the system is going as strong as ever with the old faces running the show and pushing activist and their own old comrades aside with fake allegations and trails like in the cases for Xilai and Chen Guangcheng.
You are right though if you set the BAR that low and when the goal is having democracy like the one in Russia and China in 24 more years then we might be on the right track assuming the hardliners can be kept in check in next 24 years.
No public massacre, accountability for low level officials and lack of labour camp after 24 years of so called "open door " policy.
In the mean time ex KGB officer is still in power and there were wide evidence of cheating and intimidation of oppositions in the last election, economic corruption and mafia ever growing and ordinary russians suffering while their daughters are the top rated whores in gulf Countries and Turkey and ....
As far as China goes, the system is going as strong as ever with the old faces running the show and pushing activist and their own old comrades aside with fake allegations and trails like in the cases for Xilai and Chen Guangcheng.
You are right though if you set the BAR that low and when the goal is having democracy like the one in Russia and China in 24 more years then we might be on the right track assuming the hardliners can be kept in check in next 24 years.
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Again. If you're looking for a full fledged democracy in both, then that's not the case. Sorry the world doesn't run exactly as you wish it to. The point is both countries are far more democratic now than before. You don't believe me ask people from there. For the most part they are much happier now than then.
Let me ask you a question. In your "limited democracy", your ultimate goal for Iran to achieve in 24 years from now, How do you see the right of religious minorities such as Bahais, Jews, Zarostians, Sunni and .... Will that "limited democracy" defend their rights or that is outside your expectations for such a "limited democracy" ? How about free elections without the influence of GC and Velayat Faghih ?
Ahem, yours truly! Just because they were crap in the 70s and 80s doesn't mean you have to discard them forever. What does Toyota sell that stirs your passion? Corolla, Camry, Avalon? Oddly enough, I like Chrysler's offerings the best. Charger, Challenger, 300C as well as their Jeep and SUV lines and they have solid reliability to go with it. Now, if you are after a certain image then that is a different story. Oh, another thing, if you have been back recently at all, the status symbols cars in Iran are no longer Benz and BMW.