Perrenial Scapegoats Where Are You? (Frontpage Editorial)

Babak G

News Team, ISP Managers Team
Feb 13, 2003
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Parts Unknown
#1
http://www.iransportspress.com/?c=170&a=4576

(IranSportsPress.com)-Iran is out. And the blame must lay with Branko Ivankovic and Ali Daei. Oh wait. That song and tune is over. Neither, who have shouldered the bulk of the blame thrown at the national team by fans, fellow "professionals" and the media alike, are involved with Team Melli anymore...

Read More...
 

Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
#3
Great article Babak. I was one of those labled a "branko lover" by some of our fellow members. But its not about hate or love, its what is best with what we have. We let our emotions get the best of us when something goes wrong. Truth be told, Branko was the best we had at that time, and so was Daei. I was one of those that criticized Daei left and right but he is truely one of the best finishers ive seen.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#4
Great article Babak, thanks alot!:)

Correct me if Im wrong Babak, but dont think Babak implies that Branko should have stayed in TM and so should have been underperforming Daei. To my understanding he is implying that those(including GHN) who blamed Branko-Daei for TM failure to not give likes of Enayati, Kazemian, a chance in WC(which admittedly I was among them too), saw that without Branko-Daei , TM failed again and so did likes of Enayati. bc TM followed the same path, same line-up, same mentality.
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#5
As I said, what comes out is that both were pieces of dung, yet one smells fresher and we notice it more than the dried up one.

The intro is what I have a problem with. Anyone who remembers that tourney knows we struggled to get out of the group and the team was hailed on 1 great performance and 1 injustice. Qualifying for the WC we almost failed to get past the first group and when we did we came 2nd in a group of 4, where even if we came 3rd we could still qualify.

Then the second paragraph: Ali Daei was useless in AC 04 and WC 06. He scored the 3rd goal against Thailand - a penalty - and padded up 2 more when we were already eliminated against Bahrain for 3rd and 4th spot and one of them, again, was a penalty.

I think if you were, at the time of course, judging Daei and Branko other than on these kinds of points, you can't be held to the same standards of those who were bashing this team for the ridiculous reasons of the coach being too religious, too Iranian and 'criticisms' alike.

One thing I would like to mention, though, is that when there was a dissident crowd against Daei and Branko, I wish I had made my voice separate from those that were bashing the team inanely. Because it seems now, after so much posting and using reason to have criticised then...I am being lumped with the group that said Daei and Branko were felan felan shodehs. In fact, you look through my posts, I don't think I EVER called Daei a Daeinosaur or Branko as Brangoh.
 

ABall

Bench Warmer
Jun 15, 2006
734
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whoknowwwws?
#6
I thought this was a very well written and thought over document, by far one of the most reflective ones I've read in the past few months where we as Iranian fans have looked no where deeper than results to take tempature of our Team Melli.

All of this evidence about Branko Ivankovic's success just goes to show that he was not the "bad coach" here, (albeit not Sir Alex Fergerson) but we are the ruthless fans. We are the fans who boo their players and jeer their head coach thinking that we either know something they don't, or that our negativity would somehow inspire these people to do their jobs better.

Ivankovic's success now in qualifying for the Champions League, as well as his resume with Iran and before show that he was not the sterotypical "bad coach" but rather a good guy cast into a bad shadow by a nation of fans with their heads stuck so far up their asses that the only thing they could hear were the echos of a national media telling them how this Croat deserved to be our Goat. How he knew nothing of what he did, was out of touch, and was a puppet of other influences within the team...it just happened to be that everyone relized Ali Daei's influence within the team as something bad, without noticing the horriable presence of Ali Karimi who, IMO, single-handedly SCREWED OVER our World Cup appearence with his personal issues. With no sign of Professionalism in our National Team, with agents of players, and personal motives of our biggest egos running loose, Ali Daei and Branko Ivankovic's roles were both norms in the sport of football comparitivley. Look at Cuatemhoc Blanco's role with Mexico -- not much different that the role Ali Daei had been given at the WC, the exception being that Daei was given the chance to start (which we now relize wasn't a great option for the WC...but which one of these other SCRUBS who play in the Arab leagues has shown themselves more capable, or even the least bit deserving as Ali Daei? Reza Enayati? Rasoul Khatibi? Arash Borhani? Javad Kazemian? None, none, none, none. Borhani may not of had the chances, and Kazemian may of come on of late, but we should be smarter than to look at four Asian Cup games as a sign of "arrival"...especially for Kazemian).

The point is that our country had some people who were worthy of representing us at the World Cup last year. A globally known striker in Ali Daei who was at least capable of providing good leadership and play on a level equal to most of his future succesors, a coach who would go on to claim a Champions League birth, a team that had enough bright spots to land two players in European Leagues (Andranik, Nekounam) and nearly land two others (Mirzapour in Portugal, Nosrati in Belgium).

If this is truly a time for a new era in our football as some have been calling for; an era of Nekounam as captain and Mahdavikia as a former international, an era of Teymourian as a center midfielder and Karimi as a famous onlooker, then it is also a time for a new mentality by us -- Iran's Supporters. More postive, more supportive, more cautious of our national venomus media and tempered in our prejuce of forigners let them be named something like Ivankovic or something more familar sounding like Zandi, another name we shunned from out team a year ago.

Thank you for the article, as you can see it really got me going. Very good!
 

BabakB

Ball Boy
Jul 11, 2007
31
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#7
GREAT ARTICLE! Thank you!
Borrowing a line from the movie "About Schmidt", we gotta learn to appreciate things while we still have them.
 
Jan 23, 2003
3,619
0
#8
As I said, what comes out is that both were pieces of dung, yet one smells fresher and we notice it more than the dried up one.

The intro is what I have a problem with. Anyone who remembers that tourney knows we struggled to get out of the group and the team was hailed on 1 great performance and 1 injustice. Qualifying for the WC we almost failed to get past the first group and when we did we came 2nd in a group of 4, where even if we came 3rd we could still qualify.

Then the second paragraph: Ali Daei was useless in AC 04 and WC 06. He scored the 3rd goal against Thailand - a penalty - and padded up 2 more when we were already eliminated against Bahrain for 3rd and 4th spot and one of them, again, was a penalty.
Good points Kaz.

Babak jan I always enjoy your articles and views but this article wasnt your best.

The previous system had many many faults that were covered up. Remember the performance v Oman under the Branko/Daei era? Had we not fluked that one, this tourney would have been a success compared to that one! Although our performances in AC04 in the latter stages were better than what we saw in AC07, but also non of our performances this time were as bad as the one v Oman.

I dont think those who were fed up with Branko partnering Hashemian with Daei wanted Hashemian to be partnered with Enayati and Khatibi.

Despite the debacle of yesterday I dont, by any means, want to see Branko come back.

Also one more thing: if Kia and Karimi were in the same form as AC04, believe me GN would have at least equalled Branko's record - even with the presence of Enayati and khatibi.
 
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Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
#9
As I said, what comes out is that both were pieces of dung, yet one smells fresher and we notice it more than the dried up one.

The intro is what I have a problem with. Anyone who remembers that tourney knows we struggled to get out of the group and the team was hailed on 1 great performance and 1 injustice. Qualifying for the WC we almost failed to get past the first group and when we did we came 2nd in a group of 4, where even if we came 3rd we could still qualify.

Then the second paragraph: Ali Daei was useless in AC 04 and WC 06. He scored the 3rd goal against Thailand - a penalty - and padded up 2 more when we were already eliminated against Bahrain for 3rd and 4th spot and one of them, again, was a penalty.

I think if you were, at the time of course, judging Daei and Branko other than on these kinds of points, you can't be held to the same standards of those who were bashing this team for the ridiculous reasons of the coach being too religious, too Iranian and 'criticisms' alike.

One thing I would like to mention, though, is that when there was a dissident crowd against Daei and Branko, I wish I had made my voice separate from those that were bashing the team inanely. Because it seems now, after so much posting and using reason to have criticised then...I am being lumped with the group that said Daei and Branko were felan felan shodehs. In fact, you look through my posts, I don't think I EVER called Daei a Daeinosaur or Branko as Brangoh.
I dont disagree with what u said and never did during the Branko era neither. Branko was the best at that time with what he had. But it seemed like it was your personal vendetta to go after Branko with everything he did. It was actually quiet amusing at that time, everyone of your posts was the same about how much you hated him at that time. I think you had a avatar too didnt you.
 

Alixman984

Bench Warmer
Feb 8, 2005
1,590
0
Southampton/UK
#10
I dont disagree with what u said and never did during the Branko era neither. Branko was the best at that time with what he had. But it seemed like it was your personal vendetta to go after Branko with everything he did. It was actually quiet amusing at that time, everyone of your posts was the same about how much you hated him at that time. I think you had a avatar too didnt you.
wow..well said mehran jan
dastet dard nakone. KAZ lives on the extremes , LOVE AND HATE.

he either hates ppl or loves them. and for both he has no clue why?:confused-:confused-
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#11
I dont disagree with what u said and never did during the Branko era neither. Branko was the best at that time with what he had. But it seemed like it was your personal vendetta to go after Branko with everything he did. It was actually quiet amusing at that time, everyone of your posts was the same about how much you hated him at that time. I think you had a avatar too didnt you.
I had an avatar made :D - like I always do, even now (this one is borrowed, TY FZ). But no, I never talked about hating the guy. You got the wrong guy. This is precisely the reason I wish I had separated my rants with those that were just bashing the guy for the sake of it, because now I am lumped in the same group.
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#12
wow..well said mehran jan
dastet dard nakone. KAZ lives on the extremes , LOVE AND HATE.

he either hates ppl or loves them. and for both he has no clue why?:confused-:confused-
How about you quote my arguments, I don't remember listing my hate and the things I wish to do to him - i.e. hang him, as some want to do with GN.

I remember vividly questioning why our LB was Sattar Zare, and why, when he continued to fail, others weren't tried. Or that why Ali Daei, who was completely past it, was being played for 90 minutes and not at least coming off in the last 20.

If you can exemplify this, I'll apologise. If not, I think I deserve one ;).
 

Alixman984

Bench Warmer
Feb 8, 2005
1,590
0
Southampton/UK
#13
How about you quote my arguments, I don't remember listing my hate and the things I wish to do to him - i.e. hang him, as some want to do with GN.

I remember vividly questioning why our LB was Sattar Zare, and why, when he continued to fail, others weren't tried. Or that why Ali Daei, who was completely past it, was being played for 90 minutes and not at least coming off in the last 20.

If you can exemplify this, I'll apologise. If not, I think I deserve one ;).
this is a forum and everybody is welcomed to say his/her opinion .I do apologise if I went too harsh on you the other day.frustration and pain are the only word i can hide my anger behind.
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#14
this is a forum and everybody is welcomed to say his/her opinion .I do apologise if I went too harsh on you the other day.frustration and pain are the only word i can hide my anger behind.
Then I sincerely accept your confession. If it was for the love of Iran, there isn't much I can fault. Remember, I am Iranian too ;).
 

Sly

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
28,748
878
#15
Babak jan, great work. well done.

The previous system had many many faults that were covered up. Remember the performance v Oman under the Branko/Daei era? Had we not fluked that one, this tourney would have been a success compared to that one! Although our performances in AC04 in the latter stages were better than what we saw in AC07, but also non of our performances this time were as bad as the one v Oman.
Abedzadeh jan, if we want to be fair...if you put all the first halfs of the first stage of this tournament together, it will be more minutes of disaster compared to the whole game against Oman. Specially the first half against Uzbekistan, I'd never seen such a disaster with any coach.

Also maybe you didn't want to partner Hashemian with Enayati at that time (I didn't either) but many of those people who criticised Daei's presence in TM did.

I also don't want Branko to come back as the WC was simply too big for him but as Mehran said, at the time, he was the best option we had and surprisingly enough, if you count out the WC and only count in the results, he showed to be one of our better coaches.

I had an avatar made :D - like I always do, even now (this one is borrowed, TY FZ). But no, I never talked about hating the guy. You got the wrong guy. This is precisely the reason I wish I had separated my rants with those that were just bashing the guy for the sake of it, because now I am lumped in the same group.
But I remember at that time when I tried to give some balance to all the people who bashed the coach rather blindly instead of coming with logic, I was labled a Brano-lover by likes of Peyz, Ghilich and many more, and among them, I do remember our (yours and mine) long a$$ discussions as well, were I was labled with a lot of different names. ;)
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#16
But I remember at that time when I tried to give some balance to all the people who bashed the coach rather blindly instead of coming with logic, I was labled a Brano-lover by likes of Peyz, Ghilich and many more, and among them, I do remember our (yours and mine) long a$$ discussions as well, were I was labled with a lot of different names. ;)
It's one thing trying to defend GN's choice against Enayati and another when you defend Daei, Hashemian on the left, Zare on the left, Alavi in the middle, Kameli Mofrad, Mirzapour...and... ;) I don't remember calling you names mate - or anyone, for that matter.
 

Sly

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
28,748
878
#17
It's one thing trying to defend GN's choice against Enayati and another when you defend Daei, Hashemian on the left, Zare on the left, Alavi in the middle, Kameli Mofrad, Mirzapour...and... ;) I don't remember calling you names mate - or anyone, for that matter.​
What about Enayati in the left, Khatibi in the right, Zandi in the left defense, Mahdavikia not in the right wing, Kazemian and most important of all Kaebi on the bench? I never saw you criticising these things, the way you did back then? ;)

and about the name calling... let's forget it. I'm just glad those times are over. ;)
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#18
What about Enayati in the left, Khatibi in the right, Zandi in the left defense, Mahdavikia not in the right wing, Kazemian and most important of all Kaebi on the bench? I never saw you criticising these things, the way you did back then? ;)

and about the name calling... let's forget it. I'm just glad those times are over. ;)
Because Zandi in the left never gave the ball up 20 billion times and cost us goals. Kazemian who was replacing Kia was doing a great job and having Kia at RB was at the least, average. Nothing bad.

As for Enayati on the left and Khatibi on the right, I had been criticising these things. I didn't want Khatibi playing and I didn't think Enayati suited left-wing at all, but I didn't agree with him sucking. If anything, he did his best, and only the coach had to answer for his lack of goals by not playing him in his favoured position.
 

xoraster

IPL Player
Oct 21, 2002
3,678
0
#19
Thank you Mr Golriz.

My 2 cents, its never too late to start over. With a good coach and some long term planinng, we might make it to 2010 and london 2012.
 

Pirouz

Bench Warmer
Feb 14, 2005
1,219
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35
Can
www.klarweb.com
#20
Thanks for the editorial.
I admit...I was becoming a GN supporter once I saw some of the performances against the weak teams (i admit, they got me excited). But hopefully now a new foreign coach will step up and try to manage a squad with a lot of potential, but also problems. I will still continue to follow TM, no matter how bleak the situation is or who is to blame for all of the problems.