this is just fucked up...

[lordofmordor]

Reason is they have already build settlements on top of where the water resources are so they can take it. As long as the Palastinians shut up and not say anything Israel is okay with it. But any action, they will be called Terrorist. Here is killing an 11 year old kid in West bank 2 days ago as he was close to kids throwing stone. I know you call them terrorist, we call these kids wanting end of occupation and freedom.


In Gaza, they want the oil that is there. Here is a great article on the history of it:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-an...invasion-and-gaza-s-offshore-gas-fields/11680

The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law.

What can we expect in the wake of the invasion?

What is the intent of Israel with regard to Palestine’s Natural Gas reserves?

A new territorial arrangement, with the stationing of Israeli and/or “peacekeeping” troops?

The militarization of the entire Gaza coastline, which is strategic for Israel?

The outright confiscation of Palestinian gas fields and the unilateral declaration of Israeli sovereignty over Gaza’s maritime areas?

If this were to occur, the Gaza gas fields would be integrated into Israel’s offshore installations, which are contiguous to those of the Gaza Strip. (See Map 1 above).

These various offshore installations are also linked up to Israel’s energy transport corridor, extending from the port of Eilat, which is an oil pipeline terminal, on the Red Sea to the seaport – pipeline terminal at Ashkelon, and northwards to Haifa, and eventually linking up through a proposed Israeli-Turkish pipeline with the Turkish port of Ceyhan.

Ceyhan is the terminal of the Baku, Tblisi Ceyhan Trans Caspian pipeline. “What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel’s Tipline.” (See Michel Chossudovsky, The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil, Global Research, July 23, 2006)

I know as much as anybody, which is not a lot. Last I checked at least nobody was dying there and there is no blockade. Why can't Gaza be like that? Listen, nobody is living it up there. What I am saying is that the Gaza experience has set back the future of normal life for the Palestinians immensely. I do agree that the Israel is no longer content with what they had pre-1967 but likes of Hamas still think they can push them into the sea if they keep it up just a little longer. In the meantime, generation after generation of the young are wasted.

 

[lordofmordor]

Wow, Ostad, if you are not already getting paid for being voice of Israel you really should contact them. They pay well. Fox and others are cashing in. You should too.

Yeah, I know everyone loves to hate on Isreal with no reason. They have been truly angels. They occupying another people's land and bulldozering houses, building settlement, and ethnic cleansing has been just the gift to the Palastinians. And everyone else that does not support occupation is just a Israeli hater right?

Have you talked to the UN people who have gone work in the occupied territories? If you had, you would not have come here and throw your support behind the occupiers without any regards for occupied. There were no Hamas back then. Israel has always found an excuse to build settlments and take more lands. And brutalizing Palastinians against every international law. Terrroism come to existence as the result of occupation and treatment of Palastinians.

I dont see any talk of occupation from you here. Poor Israelis. Why do they have to live in such horrible conditions. These Palastinians they occupied are just horrific. You know Nazi used to brutally kill the French who fought for freeing their country. And bingo. You guessed it right, they were called terrorists too.

And here is some new knowledge for you. Israelies used to be called terrorists as they did terrorist activities against British before coming into existence.

Now, there are 2 groups of people here. Those who are against injustices who are not against Israel and rather like Israel and Jewish people but against occupation and settlements and treatments of Palastinians. They want 2 state solutions.

And then you and flint and shahinc who are super pro Israel without any regard for human loss, occupation or any wrong doing to Palastinians. Sounds like racism to me. I dont see you guys pressing Israel to make peace or talk to Abbas when there is years of peaceful time. You guess it right, bingo again, during those peaceful time, Israel uses it build more settlements and comes up with every excuse not to talk to the Palatinians. They cancel house certifcates, kick out the Palastinians from their areas and bull dozer the house and then build jewish homes.

What any of us write here is not going to make a difference in very likelihood. However, supporting killings and supporting people brutalizing another person does not set for a good karma. That makes indirectly responsible in some way. Now, I suggest you go check how many Isralies were killed during last few years and compare that to the Palastinians and Palastinian children. And I am not talking about caused by Hamas.

Just saying, stay on side of the justice regadless of who is doing it. Look at the cause of it rather than the effect much later.

Flint people will always hate on Israel just because its Israel. As they say and its true Israel is a torn in the eye of most Arabs and Muslims and will continue to be. For that they will try to excuse all other atrocities by other Arab countries and that they have caused these poor Palestinians most of their misery through the wars they have undertaken against Israel from 60 years ago and after being defeated so many times and change that has taken place have abandoned them. Now they can be helped by the aid of their billions but they are not as you have correctly indicated they are all after their own wishes and power. Even Saudi supported Israel and put down Hamas because it lays in their long term strategy to be more on the Israeli side than killer terrorists which themselves harbor but are afraid will reach their own borders. This only tells you how dirty politics is and how dirty these Arab countries are.

People keep taking about occupation but everytime Israel has let them move around we have seen what has happened. These guys have attacked Israel over 7 times with many small uprisings and suicide attacks. I suggest they think about if they were in Israels shoe would they be able to TRUST these guys not to let them demilitarize. I think its only fair for Israel to push for disarmament of these terrorists and that way they cash push to make their economy better and open their borders for traveling and commerce. One has to be absolutely out of their mind to put any trust in the hands of Hamas and Islamic killers based on their history.

 

[OSTAD POOYA]

Dear Lord,

I want you to take any sentence from my post and tell me if its wrong or historically not accurate. By indicating the obvious it does not mean that I have no regard for the other side or not feel bad about their situation. I do very much and hope for a day that this will just stop and they can start living in normal conditions with a government that does not promote war but rather wants to build infrastructure and a good economy for other generations to come. What you are failing to see is if one talks about a side or the actions taken it doesn't mean that they have no regard for the other side and what's happening to them. This is a multi faceted situation with a long history and many many sides involved. This is not a matter of simply black or white and there are tons of gray to be seen too. These are reasons of what has taken place and has led up to this. This still means that your point about the gas fields is valid, your point about injustice is valid, your point about innocent people dying is valid, the Palestinian numbers being much higher is valid, but it still does not mean those reasons of why this has happened and why politicians and those involved have steered it this way change. I have a question for you. If you were Israel would you trust Hamas to continue to hold on to its Arms and allow them to have an independent country there? I am not talking about fair here. I am talking about historically if your neighbor kept attacking you which are against your own interests without having justice or fairness or morality play a factor would you trust them to do so?

 

[Playboy]

various reports are starting to tickle out about the isreali gestapos operations
in their assault on gaza.one of the most disturbing reports even to isrealis themselves is
the fact that it appears the isrealis killed 3 of their own fighters in order to prevent
their capture by the resistance.guy levy and hadar goldin are named as 2 but the 3rd one
is still unnamed.hadar goldin was the one that was first reported as missing just as a ceasefire
was taking effect and later on declared dead by the isrealis.no army ever has stooped this low
to kill their own.they even have a name for it 'hannibal directive'.this as the title of this thread
says is just fucked up,really fucked up!

Hannibal Directive is the beginning of fascism in Israel

Op-ed: Protocol promoting idea that a soldier's life is expendable for good of state is one manifestation of growing fascism, fed by Benjamin Netanyahu.


There are no parents who would prefer their son's death over his capture. An attempt to prevent a soldier's capture at the cost of his life is a moral crime based on a fascist view of the world, showing preference to the country over the individual. It's true that the individual risks his life to protect the country, but he does this with confidence that the country will do everything in order to bring him or her home safely and most certainly without putting a gun at his back.


Read more: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...557951,00.html

i can not decide what to make of this hannibal directive/procedure.
on one had it's pretty gratifying to see the isreali gestapo killing their own
dogs,that's a green thing and the civilized world will thank them for it.but on the
other hand even wild animals do not kill their own.it's disturbing to see a so called
army have no regard for their own ranks,imagine how they would treat others.this
proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the apartheid regime in isreal has no human values.
and the more disturbing thing is that the parents of these sheep who are summarily
executed by the isreali gestapo in order to prevent their capture are not coming out
and speaking against this directive.this must be the lowest form of existence on the
planet.

btw,does killing your own soldiers count as an own goal like in soccer?

 

[Flint]

My simple question remains unanswered:

What does Hamas want?

 

[Flint]

In Gaza, they want the oil that is there. Here is a great article on the history of it:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-an...invasion-and-gaza-s-offshore-gas-fields/11680

The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law.

The oil and gas fields, if true, are offshore. Why would Israel need to occupy Gaza to get to the oil? Ans: it doesn't, and down goes your theory. Again.

 

[IEI]

My simple question remains unanswered:

What does Hamas want?

To stay in power, you can't give them anything to make them happy.
Having said that, Israel doesn't solve any solution by keep attacking Gaza.
The more you kill, the worst the situation becomes.

 

[Flint]

To stay in power, you can't give them anything to make them happy.
Having said that, Israel doesn't solve any solution by keep attacking Gaza.
The more you kill, the worst the situation becomes.

Turning tables around, what does Israel want from Gaza?

 

[IEI]

Turning tables around, what does Israel want from Gaza?

Complete annihilation of Hamas and complete surrounding of its leaders, which is not possible

 

[Playboy]

i don't know what the war criminals in charge of the apartheid regime
in isreal want.but some jews want to see the first born donkey.

[h=1]Firstborn donkey 'redeemed' in rare Bnei Brak ceremony[/h] Thousands of people show up to observe unusual Jewish mitzvah, which serves as background for 'summit meeting' between senior Lithuanian and Sephardic rabbis.

Rare ceremony attracts thousands (Photo: Yaakov Cohen)​

The "petter chamor" ceremony is a halachic procedure aimed at allowing the owner of a firstborn donkey to use it for his own needs.

According to Jewish Law, firstborns – including those of animals like sheep and donkeys – are considered sacred for religious use. If their owners wish to use them for any purpose, they must "redeem" them according to the Halacha through a symbolic sum of money or any other animal that can be slaughtered.

Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky and Rabbi Shalom Cohen (Photo: Yaakov Cohen)​

The rare ceremony served as the background for a rare meeting between the two senior leaders of the haredi world, who sat on the same stage. Rabbi Kanievsky and Rabbi Cohen were greeted by a singing audience, which the organizers say totaled more than 10,000 people, including Bnei Brak Mayor Hanoch Zeibert and many rabbis and public figures.

[h=3]Donkey foal adorned with flowers[/h] The ceremony's organizers told Ynet that special virtues are attributed to the firstborn donkey redemption mitzvah, and that the state of war in Israel served as a catalyst for the rare ceremony.

Lamb in exchange for donkey foal (Photo: Yaakov Cohen)​

Photo: Yaakov Cohen​

Rabbi Shalom Cohen, who was recently crowned the new spiritual leader of the Sephardic Shas movement, praised the mitzvah and blessed the audience attending the event.

Thousands of people fill the nearby streets (Photo: Yaakov Cohen)​

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4557827,00.html

 

[lordofmordor]

Thank you Ostad. Hamas is certainly a problem but it was Israel who created the Hamas. And it has been Israel who has empowered it at any point it has become weak. When they were no Hamas around, Israel kept on building settlements and was more interested in that than building peace. Sharon getting rid of Arafat, and Netanyahu belittling Abbas at every turn is a good example. Even today, they have speed up building settlements.

Ostad, I have more interest in Israel than I have in others. Israel has a percentage of people who are not right wing and into war and want peace. It has people who care about Palastinians and openely speak and take actions against Israel for it. It is a nation that will offer great things in technology and medical, something the entire Islamic states in their long history cant even touch and Israel has done it in such a short time.

But fact is Israel has also done many massacres that keeps on building enemies. There were no Hamas not long ago. And the current pattern of building settlements, and weakening the Palastinian Authority, and then taking actions to destroy cities and kill people (lebanon, West Bank, Gaza) is not the solution. Now, the situation will go to status Quo and Israel will cause another issue to get Palestinians to take actions and then calls them terrorists and goes on bombing them, while keep on building settlements. That is the pattern.

Palastinians have no voice here. If they take actions, they are called terrorists and Israel has to defend themselves. If they dont take actions, Israel does not take steps to make peace and goes on building settlements.

Dear Lord,

I want you to take any sentence from my post and tell me if its wrong or historically not accurate. By indicating the obvious it does not mean that I have no regard for the other side or not feel bad about their situation. I do very much and hope for a day that this will just stop and they can start living in normal conditions with a government that does not promote war but rather wants to build infrastructure and a good economy for other generations to come. What you are failing to see is if one talks about a side or the actions taken it doesn't mean that they have no regard for the other side and what's happening to them. This is a multi faceted situation with a long history and many many sides involved. This is not a matter of simply black or white and there are tons of gray to be seen too. These are reasons of what has taken place and has led up to this. This still means that your point about the gas fields is valid, your point about injustice is valid, your point about innocent people dying is valid, the Palestinian numbers being much higher is valid, but it still does not mean those reasons of why this has happened and why politicians and those involved have steered it this way change. I have a question for you. If you were Israel would you trust Hamas to continue to hold on to its Arms and allow them to have an independent country there? I am not talking about fair here. I am talking about historically if your neighbor kept attacking you which are against your own interests without having justice or fairness or morality play a factor would you trust them to do so?

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

خسارت وارد شده ب غزه ۵٠ ميليون دلار تخمين زده شده، تقسيم بر ٧٠ ميليون کنين ببينم دنگ ما چقدر ميشه.......
و من الله توفيق.....

 

[Silverton]

[video=youtube;cbM0aCeNGl8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbM0aCeNGl8[/video]

 

[Kaz]

Big blow to any kind of moral stance Hamas may have had. One step forward, two steps back.

[video=youtube;wT-a-WWJgBg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT-a-WWJgBg[/video]

 

[TeamMeli]

^^They were just discussing that and people thought these guys are a legit political organization. The leadership on both sides is rubbish mate.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

اى كاش فقراى كشورم در غزه ميبودند تا از كمك هاى هموطنانشان بهره مند ميشدند...

 

[Flint]

Big blow to any kind of moral stance Hamas may have had. One step forward, two steps back.

[video=youtube;wT-a-WWJgBg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT-a-WWJgBg[/video]

I hate to say I told you so but it is hard to resist. So here goes: I told you so.

The moral of the story is that none of us are in a position to produce proofs and documents to support our case. We have to go by what we can put together by what see and read. Hamas rules Gaza. It is a small place. Whatever happens there cannot go unnoticed by them. Even now they are hiding behind the fig leaf that the rockets fired during the ceasefire is really not theirs. It is this group or that group and they know nothing about it. I hope you don't fall for that line after this revelation. One more thing. Hamas is not much different than ISIS. Just today they executed 18 "informers". You think Hamas justice is much different? The only difference is that they did not put the videos online. Other than that 18 people with their hands tied were shot in the head.

 

[Kaz]

What are you telling me? Despite the fact that I've been vocal about Israel in this thread I've never considered Hamas as blameless. But in the last few years they had certainly toned down their rhetoric and actions. Whereas the Israelis have kept up their genocidal rhetoric.

They've gone on to say that the kidnappings have been because of ill-treatment of Hamas members in Israeli prisons. It's disgusting all round. But ultimately, if this sort of extremism is to end, Israel needs to stop occupying the Palestinians. Without occupation, groups like Hamas won't exist as the extremism will die down. Illegal wars, illegal occupations, these are things that breed terrorists. And having said that, Israel's actions are at least just as disgusting - and probably more disgusting considering their power and the carnage they've inflicted on generations of people.

 

[Flint]

Without occupation, groups like Hamas won't exist as the extremism will die down.

The sooner you realize that these gangs do what they want to do and do not need provocation the less argument we will have. If it is not Israel, it is something else. What does ISIS want from Christians? Have they taken Muslim land? Have they waged war? What is their problem? Let me tell you want they want. They want their wealth, women and land. In the end, if they don't like them they will kill them for fun. Look what they do to their own. Israel and the jews would be crazy to give an inch to these coward beasts.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

The sooner you realize [/IMG]

Let me assure you that day will never come