Behrou jan, I am not able to agree to something that insults my very existence the way that religion and its teachings do.
Behrooz jaan, I think that this is the fallacy in your argument - everything I have seen in this thread is based on non-believers insulting the very existence of the believers, not the other way around. Ashtar is not insulting your existence and for all intents and purposes Timsar may insult people's intelligence, but I have never seen him insult their existence. On the other hand, every few weeks or months, there's a thread like this that I find completely insulting to religous people on this board (which are by no means limited to Ashtar and Timsar) and serves absolutely no purpose other than to sow divisions in society (I'm calling ISP the society here). My wife's mom is a devout Catholic - she is the most caring and accepting person I have met - other than my wife of course who is not at all religous but very spiritual. On the other hand, I find my brother extremely selfish and self-centered - he is an Atheist. I'm using these examples to show that your generalization of religion and Ahteism does not hold true and I don't have to look beyond this forum or my immediate family to come to that conclusion - and I'm sure you and everyone else can find similar examples in your immediate family or surroundings with just the least bit of objectivity.
No I'm not happy because you didn't answer the question.
Ashtar jaan, there was a question that you din't answer either. What are your thoughts about Khomeini et al. as related to religion? I think this is the place where a lot of the disconnect happens in Iranian society.
You didn't because you simply can't. In fact, no one on this board will be up to the challenge.
Not so fast my friend. Your question/argument is not the smoking gun you were hoping for! To answer your question, the only code of morality that I would need as an Atheist or non-religous person, not to cheat on my wife when I think I can get away with it, not to steal if I know I won’t be caught, not to kill someone and take their stuff when I can get away with, not lie to save my own skin, or not to take advantage of someone who is weak, desperate or in need, is a simple one liner... "don't do to others, what you don't want done onto you" or any other wording of it you're comfortable with that is entrenched in every religion and philosophical moral code.
Unfortunately, the adulterations in the Abrahamic faiths, have actually nullified that message in its purest form and made it okay to do those things. For example, you don't need to cheat on your wife, you can simply take another one in Islam and that's supposedly a sanctioned act - the humiliation or emotional harm to your wife would be no less either way. Another example, it's okay to lie as long as it serves some higher purpose (dorooghe maslehati) - don't forget that every lie serves some higher purpose for the liar, so lying becomes sanctioned. It's also okay to kill certain people (infidels) and to take advantage of the weak (women in particular). Unfortunately, these are the aduletrations that have made it very easy over the centuries to kill people, rape women, steal and pillage entire societies in the name of religion and that's why we see threads like this popping up every few weeks or months.
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My belief is that over time, we Iranians need to reconcile on some moral and ethical issues and stop following or choosing leaders that do not work within that ethical groundwork. For example, we need to focus on people that believe in not cheating and stealing and killing, regardless of whether they are Muslim, Jewish, Bahai, Agnostic, Atheist, etc... and stop following people that do these things and justify doing these things because they start their sentences with Besmellah or call themselves the pious religous authority on this earth. My hope is that one day, the more moderate Muslims people, many of which we have on this boeard can work together with secularists and people of all faiths to produce a blue print for Iran that does not consits of killing, imprisoning or even ridiculing everyone who does not agree with them. After a decade on this board, I'm still chasing that illusive moment where I can see this done, at least on a small scale on a forum like this, so that I can finally hope for a brighter future for all of us and our country. I can understand why Soroosh has thrown in the towel. I can understand why there's anger on both sides and I can understand that there seems to be little hope at the moment. But is it so damn hard for less than a few dozen people to at least try and reach some common ground on some issues without ridculing or alienating the other half of Iranian society? This is not a rhetorical question and I pose it for both sides.