کشته شدن یک شهروند بهایی در بندرعباس به ضر&#15

Nov 24, 2002
27,860
1,466
#1
[h=5]I don't know what to say :( (((([/h]عطالله رضوانی،عضو سابق هیات سه نفری خادمین جامعه بهائی بندرعباس شنبه شب، دوم شهریور ماه جاری با شلیک گلوله از پشت سر در بندرعباس به قتل رسید.
یکی از اعضای خانواده عطالله رضوانی با اعلام این خبر به رادیو زمانه گفت که وی بارها از طرف مسئولین اطلاعاتی و دفتر امام جمعه تهدید شده بود.
عطالله رضوانی

به گفته او: “پیش از این نیز میعاد افشار و ایرج میدانی، از بهائیان سرشناس بندرعباس از سوی افراد نزدیک به امام جمعه بندرعباس با قمه مجروح شده بودند. ایرج مهدی***نژاد،یکی دیگر از بهائیان بندرعباس نیز چند سال پیش با ضربات چاقو به قتل رسیده بود و گفته می***شود برخی افراد متعصب ضدبهایی در این قتل نقش داشته******اند.”
عطاالله رضوانی دانشجوی اخراجی مهندسی مکانیک دانشگاه علم و صنعت در دوران انقلاب فرهنگی بود و هنگام مرگ ۵۲ سال داشت.شماری از اعضای خانواده عطالله رضوانی در چند سال اخیر به دلیل اعتقادات مذهبی***شان بازداشت شده***اند.
به گفته این عضو خانواده آقای رضوانی، او فروشنده پمپ آب در بندرعباس بود و اداره اطلاعات بندرعباس از اداره آب و فاضلاب آن شهر خواسته بود که دادوستد اقتصادی خود را با عطاالله رضوانی قطع کنند و او را در هیچ مناقصه و کار اقتصادی***ای مشارکت ندهند.
هنوز هیچ فرد یا گروهی مسئولیت قتل این شهروند بهایی را بر عهده نگرفته است.

مطلب را به بالاترین بفرستید:
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#3
in small to medium cities of Iran Daftar Emam jomeh is huge economic force to be reckoned with.
I would not be surprised if this had something to with economic competition issue.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#4
According to Fars News two days ago, the Friday prayer cleric in Bandar Abbas had warned the Islamic nation (Ommat Eslami) to be vigilant against the "Baha'i sect" and invited them to be "awake" (bidar). Unfortunately this has happened many times before as a sample of (bidary ommat eslami) against defenseless people and hiding in the dark to abduct and shoot them from behind and a way of following those hateful edicts from the pulpit...all of which has ONLY to do with the belief in the Baha'i Faith.
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#5
in small to medium cities of Iran Daftar Emam jomeh is huge economic force to be reckoned with.
I would not be surprised if this had something to with economic competition issue.
Bahai's are being killed for "economic competition issue"? When you put these "theories" out there, you sound like an apologist for the Islamic government and Islamists. Bahai's are being killed for being Bahai's and no other real reason. They are not being killed over money and power, but because of their belief and religion.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#6
Bahai's are being killed for "economic competition issue"? When you put these "theories" out there, you sound like an apologist for the Islamic government and Islamists. Bahai's are being killed for being Bahai's and no other real reason. They are not being killed over money and power, but because of their belief and religion.
Ardesheer jaan, that is the main point that after all these years and even when so many Iranians have lost but all their faith in anything divine due to the actions of the Islamic clergy, most have sadly maintained their prejudice and misgivings towards Baha'is based on the incantations of the same clerical clan. As long as this odd behavior lingers on, so will the hold of the clerics on Iran and the misery of its people. Anywhere else in the world such actions would create such an outcry for justice, but in Iran it is assumed to be due to economics, driving habits, looks, anything but the Baha'is' beliefs. After all, the Islamic republic has been such a paradigm of democracy and such a haven for freedom and justice that it would be impossible to expect a mob attitude from it...for shame!!
 
Aug 27, 2005
8,688
0
Band e 209
#7
Ever since GhAjAr our Baabi and Bahaei hammeehans have been harassed, tortured, mutilated, dragged in the streets necked with lit candles planted in their flesh, killed, belonging looted, families shattered and scattered all over the world, without a hint of actual support from their hammeehans. Just because they believe in an ideology a tad different than we do. Did you know that to be a Bahaei you must 1st, believe in Islam, Mohammad and the following 12s?

God!! There has never been a case in the history of mankind in which so many to owe so much to so few. One of these days (hopefully before they plant me) we must brace ourselves and think about how we are going to offer our apologies to our Baabi and Bahaei hammeehans for leaving them exposed to so much atrocities without our support.

Seemorgh will resurrect from the ashes. I know. The best of the temples will be in Iran
 

feyenoord

Bench Warmer
Aug 23, 2005
1,706
0
#8
Interview with the family of the victim:

http://www.roozonline.com/persian/news/newsitem/archive/2013/august/27/article/-a96e82fe81.html

خانواده عطاالله رضوانی در مصاحبه با روز:
قتل سازماندهی شده و عقیدتی بوده
فرشته قاضی
فرشته قاضی
f.ghazi(at)roozonline.com

جنازه عطاالله رضوانی، شهروند ۵۴ ساله و بهائی ساکن بندرعباس در یکی از جاده***های متروکه و خارج از شهر پیدا شد. خانواده او در مصاحبه با "روز" می***گویند که وی ساعت ۹ شنبه شب از منزل خارج شده و یک روز بعد، اداره آگاهی خبر قتل او را به آن***ها داده است: "با گلوله از پشت سر به او شلیک کرده***اند هیچ یک از وسایل ماشین او و وسایل شخصی***اش هم دست نخورده و فقط موبایل او را با خود برده***اند".

کورش رضوانی، فرزند عطالله رضوانی و همچنین نوید اقدسی، پسرخاله مقتول به "روز" می***گویند هیچ انگیزه شخصی برای چنین قتلی وجود نداشته و خانواده، بستگان و آشنایان آن***ها معتقدند این قتل با مسائل عقیدتی مرتبط بوده است. آقای رضوانی، از بهائیان شناخته شده شهر بندرعباس،به گفته خانواده***اش، بار***ها از سوی اداره اطلاعات این شهر تحت فشارهای مختلف قرار گرفته بود.

روشنک شکیبایی و ملیکا رضوانی، همسر و دختر آقای رضوانی هنگام قتل در مسافرت بودند و روز گذشته از مشهد بازگشته***اند، اما کورش رضوانی، پسر وی درباره شب وقوع قتل می***گوید: "ساعت ۹ شنبه شب از خانه خارج شدند. قرار بود برگردند خانه اما برنگشتند. نگران شدیم همه جا سر زدیم، بیمارستان***ها و کلانتری***ها و هر جا که فکر می***کردیم. خبری نشد و به ناچار رفتیم پرونده مفقودی تشکیل دهیم. در حال انجام کار بودیم که آقایی زنگ زد و گفت بیایید اداره آگاهی، پدرتان پیدا شده. رفتیم.گفتند فوت شده. در یکی از جاده***هایی که به سمت خارج از شهر می***رود او را پیدا کرده*** بودند. گفتند با گلوله از پشت سر به او شلیک کرده***اند. الان هم جنازه در پزشکی قانونی است و هنوز به ما تحویل نداده***اند.«

از او سئوال می***کنم آیا پدرتان مشکل شخصی با کسی داشت یا کسی مشکل و دشمنی با پدر شما داشت؟ می***گوید: «پدرم شخصیت خاصی بود. جز خدمت کردن کاری نداشت. نه با کسی مشکلی داشت و نه دشمنی داشت. این قتل هم سازمان یافته بود، قتل معمولی نبود. اینکه کسی را ببرند جاده متروکه و از پشت سر شلیک کنند با امکانات و سازماندهی شده بود. در اصل ایشان پشت ماشین***اش بوده، پس احتمالا با تهدید او را از شهر خارج کرده***اند. ما تا ساعت ۱۲ شب زنگ می***زدیم موبایل پدرم زنگ می***خورد ولی جواب نمی***داد. ۱۲ شب موبایل خاموش شد."

نظر خود وی را می پرسم و اینکه برخی گزارش***ها از احضار و تهدید پدرش از سوی اطلاعات خبر می***دهند. می***گوید: من نمی***دانم. خیلی مسائل می***تواند باشد.به هر حال اینکه ما از اقلیت***های مذهبی هستیم و این جریانات هم می تواند باشد. پدرم هم تهدید وهم احضار می***شدند.

می***پرسم چه تهدیدی؟ قتل پدرتان با این تهدید***ها مرتبط است؟ می***گوید: تشکیلات بهایی که تعطیل شد پدرم امور بهائیان را اینجا انجام می***داد. هر کسی را می***بردند بازجویی، او را علیه پدرم تحت فشار قرار می دادند و تهدید می***کردند. بار***ها تماس می***گرفتند اما پدرم جواب نمی***داد. او را به عنوان رئیس بهائیان اینجا می***شناختند و خیلی اذیت می***کردند. گفته بودند در کارهای دولتی و تاسیسات و.. با پدرم همکاری نکنند. کلا خیلی در کار مشکل ایجاد کردند. این فشارها از طریق اداره اماکن یا اطلاعات بود.

برخی وب سایت***ها از تهدیدات و فشارهای دفتر امام جمعه شهر بندرعباس هم خبر داده***اند. پسر اقای رضوانی در این زمینه می***گوید: مدت***ها امام جمعه اینجا علیه بهائیان سخنرانی و تهدید می***کرد. آن موقع چون تشکیلات بهایی تعطیل نبود پدرم و دو تن از دوستانش نامه***ای نوشتند و به دفتر امام جمعه دادند. نوشته بودند این صحبت***هایی که شما علیه ما می***کنید صحت ندارد. ما بهائیان چنین افرادی که شما می***گویید نیستیم. شما امام جمعه شهر هستید و سخنان شما باعث تحریک عده***ای برای آزار و اذیت بهائیان می***شود. شما در مقام امام جمعه نباید علیه ما چنین صحبت کنید و.. امام جمعه هم در صحبت***هایش در نماز جمعه گفت بله این***ها نامه نوشتند و.. پدرم و دوستانش به مقامات امنیتی و نظامی هم شکایت کردند که این سخنان باعث ایجاد تنش و خونریزی می***شود و.. اما نتیجه***ای نداد. البته از سوی امام جمعه یا دفتر او، پدرم مستقیم تهدید نشده بود. فشار***ها و تهدید***ها از سوی اداره اطلاعات بود که احضار می***کردند و البته پدرم هم مراجعه نمی***کرد. می***گفت احضار تلفنی قانونی نیست. حالا هم که این وضعیت پیش آمده، واقعا هنوز نمی***دانیم چه کسی و با چه انگیزه***ای دست به قتل پدرم، آن هم به این شکل زده***. جز مسائل عقیدتی هیچ چیز دیگری به ذهنمان نمی***رسد. به هر حال پی گیر هستیم ببینیم وضعیت چه می***شود. به دادستانی هم شکایت می***کنیم و وکیل می***گیریم تا مشخص شود قتل را چه کسی انجام داده است.

نوید اقدسی، پسرخاله عطاالله رضوانی هم در مصاحبه با "روز" درباره پی گیری***های خانواده برای روشن شدن مساله قتل آقای رضوانی چنین توضیح می***دهد: "این دو روزی که کورش به اداره آگاهی رفته بیشتر حالت بازپرسی و سئوال و جواب بوده. هنوز ما جسد را رویت نکرده***ایم. چیزهایی که برای ما محرز است، اینکه هیچ شئی یا پولی از ماشین دزدیده نشده است. خود ماشین را هم ندزدیده***اند. حتی یک ریال پول دزدیده نشده، تنها چیزی که برده***اند موبایل مقتول بوده. چون آخرین نفری که مقتول را دیده و از آشنایان بوده می***گفت قبل از اینکه او را سوار ماشین کند نیم ساعت با گوشی موبایل حرف می***زد. حالا ما دنبال این هستیم که حکم بگیریم و از طریق مخابرات مشخص شود چه کسی تماس گرفته و با چه کسی حرف زده و جریان چه بود."ه

او می***افزاید: "فعلا این***ها چیزهایی است که می***دانیم ولی بقیه مسائلی است که حدس می***زنیم و احتمال می***دهیم. اگر بخواهند پی گیر قضیه باشند سرنخ***های زیادی است. یکی موبایل است، نحوه شلیک و نوع گلوله و تلفن***هایی که روزهای قبل به او شده. مساله اینجاست که ما می***ترسیم اراده***ای موجود نباشد که قضیه روشن شود و از اطلاعات دستور سر هم بندی کردن قضیه را بدهند. ولی مساله قتل یک چیز است و مساله اصلی انگیزه قتل است".

سئوال می***کنم ازنظر شما چه انگیزه***ای برای قتل آقای رضوانی وجود داشته؟ می***گوید: "این مهم***ترین شوکی است که نه تنها به خانواده مقتول و جامعه بهائی بندرعباس بلکه به جامعه غیر بهایی بندرعباس هم وارد شده. هیچ انگیزه***ای نیست. آقای رضوانی حتی سیگار هم دست***اش نگرفته. یک آدم معتقد به دیانت بهایی بود که سراغ مشروب هم نمی***رفت. هیچ خورده حساب مالی با هیچ کسی نداشت و خیلی کار***ها را عام المنفعه انجام می***داد. در بندرعباس بین همه، چه مسلمان و چه بهایی کاملا محبوب بود. هر چه فکر می***کنیم چه انگیزه***ای بوده که با اسلحه او را بکشند هیچ به ذهنمان نمی***رسد جز انگیزه عقیدتی. خانواده و تمام دوستان و آشنایان بهایی و غیربهایی در این زمینه هم عقیده هستند چون ایشان سال***ها تحت فشار بود. ایشان سر***شناسترین بهایی بندرعباس و شاید استان هرمزگان بود. روابط بسیار خوبی با همه داشت و آدم سر***شناسی بود و وزارت اطلاعات این را نمی***پسندید. بار***ها به صورت مستقیم و غیر مستقیم به ایشان فشار آوردند. از لحاظ کاری خیلی فشار آوردند. دوستان ایشان را که می***بردند وزارت اطلاعات می***ترساندند که با ایشان ارتباطی نداشته باشند. یا آن***ها را می***ترساندند که بروند و روی ایشان فشار بیاورند. به هر حال تنها چیزی که ما می***توانیم به آن شک داشته باشیم مسائل عقیدتی است که البته فعلا هیچ مدرکی نداریم و شاید در آینده هم نتوانیم هیچ مدرکی برای اثبات آن داشته باشیم. به هر حال حکومت جمهوری اسلامی است و ما اینجا اقلیت مغضوبی هستیم. ولی تنها شکی که ما داریم همین است و هیچ انگیزه دیگری به ذهن ما می***رسد."

آقای اقدسی هم می***گوید که آقای رضوانی بار***ها تحت فشار و مورد تهدید قرار گرفته بود. او توضیح می***دهد: "دو دسته تهدید است. یک دسته تهدیدات علنی که همه ما از آن خبر داریم مثلا از اداره اماکن مزاحم ایشان می***شدند و ماموران اطلاعات می***آمدند به کسب ایشان گیر می***دادند. ایشان یکی از وارد***ترین افراد در مساله تصفیه آب و تاسیسات آب بودند. یکی از شرکای ایشان مسلمان بود ولی با هم کار می***کردند. وزارت اطلاعات به سازمان آب و فاضلاب هرمزگان می***گوید که با ایشان کار نکنند و این***ها هم طرف کارشان همین سازمان بود. بعد مغازه عینک سازی داشتند با شریک دیگری. باز هم وزارت اطلاعات با هماهنگی اماکن به کسب و کار ایشان گیر می***دهد. شریک و پسرشان را تهدید می***کنند. بهائیان دیگری را که احضار می***کردند در جلسات بازجویی آن***ها علیه آقای رضوانی حرف می***زدند و حتی تهدید می***کردند که این فشار***ها را به آقای رضوانی منتقل کنند. تهدید می***کردند که با او ارتباط نداشته باشند. ایشان آدم بسیار متواضعی بود و از سویی چون می***خواست باعث نگرانی خانواده نشود خیلی تهدید***ها را به خانواده و بستگان منتقل نمی***کرد. تهدیدات غیرعلنی را بروز نمی***داد. اما می***دانیم که تحت فشار بود. خانواده او عازم مشهد بودند. همسرش می***گوید که ایشان چند روزی خیلی پکر و درهم بود. اما هیچ حرفی نمی***زد و نمی***گفت که چه شده. "

او می***افزاید: "تا جایی که ما خبر داریم هیچ تهدید مستقیمی از سوی امام جمعه بندرعباس متوجه ایشان نبوده ولی امام جمعه بندرعباس بیاناتی در ضدیت با دیانت بهایی و بهائیان بندرعباس حدود دو سال مداوم گفته و تکرار کرده است. آقای رضوانی و دو سه نفر دیگر از دوستانشان که مسئول جامعه بهایی بندرعباس بودند نامه***ای می***نویسند و به ایشان متذکر می***شوند که اختلاف افکنی***ها و تهییج احساسات دینی مردم احتمال دارد به فاجعه***هایی بینجامد. تنها مساله با امام جمعه همین بود. ما می***دانیم که به صورت مستقیم امام جمعه چیزی به آقای رضوانی نگفته. "

آقای اقدسی سپس تاکید می***کند که آقای رضوانی هیچ مشکل شخصی نداشته: "همه اینجا معتقدند به خاطر همین مساله عقیدتی بوده. خانواده به هر حال پی گیر هستند، شکایت کرده***اند ولی خب می***دانید که با زندانی شدن خانم ستوده و آقای سلطانی، وکلای کمی حاضر به پذیرش چنین پرونده***هایی هستند".

او سپس به زندانی شدن برخی از اعضای خانواده آقای رضوانی طی سالهای اخیر اشاره می کند و می***گوید: "صهبا رضوانی (فنائیان) خواهر آقای رضوانی از بهائیان سمنان است که سه سال به خاطر اعتقاد به دیانت بهائی در زندان بوده است. خواهر***زاده و همسر خواهر آقای رضوانی نیز مدت***ها در زندان سمنان بوده***اند و به تازگی آزاد شده***اند. از سوی دیگر در همین بندرعباس هم بهائیان بسیاری تحت فشار بوده***اند یا مورد ضرب و شتم و بازداشت قرار گرفته***اند. در ایران از اول جمهوری اسلامی تا الان بالای ۲۰۰ نفر از بهائیان با اتهامات واهی مثل جاسوسی کشته شده***اند. جالب اینکه اگر یک جمله می***نوشتند بهایی نیستیم اتهام جاسوسی هم رفع می***شد! آخر این چه نوع جاسوسی هست که این گونه رفع می***شود؟ فقط مساله اعدام یا قتل نیست. زندان***های بی***مورد، جلوگیری از کسب کار بهائیان. تا ۶- ۷ سال پیش جوانان بهایی را به کنکور راه نمی***دادند. این***ها نمونه***هایی از آزار و اذیت***هایی است که بهائیان با آن مواجه بوده***اند، آن هم به خاطر مسائل عقیدتی خودشان. الان هم که با این قضیه قتل پسر خاله***ام طرف هستیم و جز مساله عقیدتی هیچ انگیزه دیگری برای قتل وجود ندارد".
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#9
Bahai's are being killed for "economic competition issue"? When you put these "theories" out there, you sound like an apologist for the Islamic government and Islamists. Bahai's are being killed for being Bahai's and no other real reason. They are not being killed over money and power, but because of their belief and religion.
if you think killing somebody by Emam jomeh, a high level official of government is not serious business, I am not sure what you are smoking.

if this was 1979 I would have said your absolutely correct there is no doubt he was only killed because he was bahiee.
if this was a reportedly an active member of the community in Bandar Abbas I would have said you are correct he was killed only because he was bahiee.

but since reportedly this was directly implemented by emam jomeh and not by the intelligence apparatus.

I have to give bring in the chance that this man either knew something, or somebody needed some land, property or a business he owned.

it all makes easier on them to cover it up because the Man was one with Bahaiee faith.

again, all of this speculation. but it is very fishy that was killed by Emam jomeh's office.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#10
esamani,
What you believe is of course your choice, but two things to point out:

1. I'm not sure if you don't read Persian or have not had the opportunity to read the news that has been reported and posted under this thread. This man was in fact a well known Baha'i and a (former) member of khademin, which is a group of people (appointed) in each locality to look after the spiritual affairs of the Baha'i community. (Former) because these groups were disbanded by the order of Ahmadi-Nezhad's government and many were arrested or threatened in various cities. This group at the national level called "Yaran" - which was a seven member body - were all also arrested and imprisoned and sentenced to 20 years, reduced to 10 years, and then back to 20 year terms only because of their belief in the Baha'i Faith. And (appointed), because unlike other countries of the globe where these institutions are elected annually, Baha'i elections are forbidden in its birthplace.

2. You portrayal of the situation of the Baha'i community in Iran in the past or present is not entirely correct. Correct that in the years immediately after the revolution the persecution of the Baha'i community in Iran was very intense in an overt way, at the same time in recent years after Ahmadi-Nezhad this persecution has intensified in a new covert way. There are currently hundreds of Baha'is in prison, Baha'i youth are deprived of higher education, sometimes even of high school, and Baha'is are not allowed to work for any government agencies or obtain work permits. Recently, an edict by Khamenei forbade the Muslims to have any dealings with Baha'is. So the reality of the situation is quite different than you perceive my dear.
 
Last edited:
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#11
in small to medium cities of Iran Daftar Emam jomeh is huge economic force to be reckoned with.
I would not be surprised if this had something to with economic competition issue.
A Bahai under IRI will not have enough economic force to be a competitor with an Imam Jomeh office.
It is obvious that he was killed for being a leader of Bahais in Bandarabbas. Not the first bahai hamvatan who met this fate.

but since reportedly this was directly implemented by emam jomeh and not by the intelligence apparatus.

I have to give bring in the chance that this man either knew something, or somebody needed some land, property or a business he owned.

.
Remember the chain murders in 1990s? Forouhars and the writers did not know anything or had any property. They were killed because some AKhund had issued the fatwa. Very simple.
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#12
A Bahai under IRI will not have enough economic force to be a competitor with an Imam Jomeh office.
It is obvious that he was killed for being a leader of Bahais in Bandarabbas. Not the first bahai hamvatan who met this fate.
I was listening to radiofarda and The World Bahiean Org spokesman said that he did not have an official capacity in bandar abbas.
They also mentioned that his activities was in par with other Bahaiees.
second, There are actually quite number of successful Bahia folks in IRan.
correction:He used to have a leadership capacity in BandarAbbas before.
plenty of guys who have started a pizza shop or mobile store that has taken off big.
This poor man apparently owned a water pump business.

Remember the chain murders in 1990s? Forouhars and the writers did not know anything or had any property. They were killed because some AKhund had issued the fatwa. Very simple.
and yes, they were killed by a systematic machine, called the intelligence ministry.

not a emam jomeh office that his only purpose is to enrich his sons and once a week read out the dictated sermon on Friday.

and again if you read what I posted originally, I did not say the guy got killed because of money.
I said because it was emam jomeh (per the media) I would not be surprised if this was a money issue (a possibility not a certainty)
 
Last edited:

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#13
esamani,
What you believe is of course your choice, but two things to point out:
What does what I believe or not believe have to do with analysis of a news story?

1. I'm not sure if you don't read Persian or have not had the opportunity to read the news that has been reported and posted under this thread. This man was in fact a well known Baha'i and a (former) member of khademin, which is a group of people (appointed) in each locality to look after the spiritual affairs of the Baha'i community. (Former) because these groups were disbanded by the order of Ahmadi-Nezhad's government and many were arrested or threatened in various cities. This group at the national level called "Yaran" - which was a seven member body - were all also arrested and imprisoned and sentenced to 20 years, reduced to 10 years, and then back to 20 year terms only because of their belief in the Baha'i Faith. And (appointed), because unlike other countries of the globe where these institutions are elected annually, Baha'i elections are forbidden in its birthplace.
yes, I read and write enough farsi. and yes I am aware of the many folks in leadership circles are prison.
and there you actually gave credibility to my point that you are in far more danger as Bahaiee if you are in leadership role than and ordinary member.
and hence my point that this man may and only may have had something they wanted.
2. You portrayal of the situation of the Baha'i community in Iran in the past or present is not entirely correct. Correct that in the years immediately after the revolution the persecution of the Baha'i community in Iran was very intense in an overt way, at the same time in recent years after Ahmadi-Nezhad this persecution has intensified in a new covert way. There are currently hundreds of Baha'is in prison, Baha'i youth are deprived of higher education, sometimes even of high school, and Baha'is are not allowed to work for any government agencies or obtain work permits. Recently, an edict by Khamenei forbade the Muslims to have any dealings with Baha'is. So the reality of the situation is quite different than you perceive my dear.
Ok!!!!
and Where did I exactly implicitly or explicitly say Bahaiees are having a great time in Iran?
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#14
I was listening to radiofarda and The World Bahiean Org spokesman said that he did not have an official capacity in bandar abbas.
They also mentioned that his activities was in par with other Bahaiees.
second, There are actually quite number of successful Bahia folks in IRan.
correction:He used to have a leadership capacity in BandarAbbas before.
plenty of guys who have started a pizza shop or mobile store that has taken off big.
This poor man apparently owned a water pump business.


and yes, they were killed by a systematic machine, called the intelligence ministry.

not a emam jomeh office that his only purpose is to enrich his sons and once a week read out the dictated sermon on Friday.

and again if you read what I posted originally, I did not say the guy got killed because of money.
I said because it was emam jomeh (per the media) I would not be surprised if this was a money issue (a possibility not a certainty)
You can believe it may have had to do with his driving habits, or that he made a left turn instead of a right turn, this is where your choice comes in. Reality on the other hand is a different thing. I will explain further.

1.He did not have an official capacity because no Baha'i has any official capacity since Ahmadi-Nejad who banned all Baha'i elections, gatherings and activities. However he certainly was a prominent Baha'i who was targeted and threatened many times before, as many others have been in other cities.
2.The Islamic regime has recently changed its tactics to a vigilante style of attacks on Baha'is. When called for help, authorities simply do not show-up. This combined with the above point, create a fearful environment where such cowardly acts could be taken against other individuals.
3.Not that a position of "leadership" is of such importance for Baha'is themselves, since they are elected to office in open, secret elections without any nomination or electioneering. This "leadership" is more of an issue for non-Baha'is.
4.He certainly is not viewed as a "poor" man, rather an honorable man who was honest and true and did not recant his faith for economic gains. As other Baha'is he did not hold grudges and continued to serve his country and fellow beings to the best of his ability and was executed in the streets by vigilantes who support this retched regime, but are too ashamed to do it openly. In the end, the real loss is with the country and nation of Iran.
5.Those pizza shops and mobile stores that you say "have taken off big" is only temporary until authorities or some jealous zealot report them. If you imply temporary success of a few pizza shops and mobile stores as proof that the Baha'i community is thriving, it would be most unfortunate since the reality is quite different and quite shameful.
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#15
if you think killing somebody by Emam jomeh, a high level official of government is not serious business, I am not sure what you are smoking.
You don't give up, do you? Even if your speculation is as ludicrous as it iis, you are still sticking to it. So be it. This just shows how much you know about other people's struggles. The economic theory that you set forth just reduces thiis killing to any other murder that happens anywhere in the world. However, that is not the case. Bahai's are being persecuted and murdered in that country first and foremost for their belief.

Successful Bahai's in Iran? They don't even let them get into universities. What's the percentage of successful Bahai's in Iran? They are lucky if they are left alone.

I am not smokring anything, but obviously, you are naturally high.
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#16
You don't give up, do you? Even if your speculation is as ludicrous as it iis, you are still sticking to it. So be it. This just shows how much you know about other people's struggles. The economic theory that you set forth just reduces thiis killing to any other murder that happens anywhere in the world. However, that is not the case. Bahai's are being persecuted and murdered in that country first and foremost for their belief.

Successful Bahai's in Iran? They don't even let them get into universities. What's the percentage of successful Bahai's in Iran? They are lucky if they are left alone.

I am not smokring anything, but obviously, you are naturally high.
you are mentally so stuck in condemning what I say that you can't think straight.

yes there are many successful Bahaiees in Iran. that is not because of the government but rather it is in spite of the government.

in my experience despite all the difficulties with Iranian economy,government roadblocks and persecution there is very healthy percentage of Bahaiees that have managed to build a good life with hard work.

and you are right I don't give up thinking against the grain. you try stick to conformity by thinking just like the next person and see how far that gets you.
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#17
you are mentally so stuck in condemning what I say that you can't think straight.

yes there are many successful Bahaiees in Iran. that is not because of the government but rather it is in spite of the government.

in my experience despite all the difficulties with Iranian economy,government roadblocks and persecution there is very healthy percentage of Bahaiees that have managed to build a good life with hard work.

and you are right I don't give up thinking against the grain. you try stick to conformity by thinking just like the next person and see how far that gets you.
You really don't get it. The issue with what you say is that peoiple can come up with all sorts of possibilities or theories for any isolated incident. It's like a Jewish person being killed in Nazi Germany, and someone saying, that particular person was possibly killled due to his financial success and not for being Jewish. Yes, there is always a possibility, but you ignore the obvious and bring out a remote possibility. Yes, I am sticking to conformity with reality and logic, and you want to be different at the sake of being illogical, and that, by the way, conforms with IRI's logic. I am sure IRI would not want to link this murder to religious persecution but just a fight over money. Also, I do not agree with you that "there are many successful Bahaiees in Iran." What do you based that on? We have some Bahai's in this forum and I am sure they will disagree with your statement.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#18
Ardesheer, I would venture to say that your way of thinking is against the grain as there are many Iranians, inside and outside of Iran, who are either apologists for the regime, or are unhappy with the regime but too religious to support the Baha'is, or just indifferent as these atrocities don't affect them directly. This apathy is a major obstacle to progress. Fortunately, the percentage of people familiar with the plight of Baha'is and their beliefs and contributions to society is increasing every day and these are but covert tactics of the regime to instill fear in people and prevent them from discovering the Baha'i faith. In fact, they have told the imprisoned Baha'is that they can go free if the Baha'is were to stop teaching their Faith and all growth activities. Your analogy of the Nazi regime is spot on as this Islamic republic behaves in ways very similar. This has also been noted by Human Rights Activists in Iran who fear intensifying persecutions for Baha'is of Iran. This is precisely why it is important to continue exposing cowardly vigilante acts and bring the perpetrators to account for their actions. No amount of political posturing and diversions can detract from the simple fact that these are yet another wave of attacks on the Baha'i community of Iran who continue to withstand the onslaught with courage, resolve and dignity while remaining fully engaged in the progress of that blessed land and the well-being of its people.
 

parham79

Bench Warmer
Dec 5, 2009
1,767
0
#19
Sadly deep rooted hate has been tattoed into a lot of our people regarding Bahais that even they themselves don't see their predjudices.
 

Meehandoost

Bench Warmer
Sep 4, 2005
1,982
113
#20
The fundamental challenge for the Baha'i community of Iran is lack of security and peace of mind. Even if one Baha'i escapes all prejudices and persecution to establish somewhat of an stability that we all enjoy, demand and take for granted in most non-Islamic countries, all could be lost in an instant because being a Baha'i is viewed as a handicap in Iran. That Baha'i is then reported and will face multiple persecutions, even vigilante execution as in this case.

This behavior is also witnessed in the West, be it in the form of veiled implied and prejudiced remarks that we witness even on this website, or more overt examples such as the ZAMANI superstore in Toronto who had a sign stating that "entry of dogs and Baha'is is forbidden into the store"! One cannot even imagine the level of ingrained prejudice and hate that has been indoctrinated into the minds from the pulpit that some one like Zamani is incapable of civilized behavior in a civilized land. In other words, one can take a bigot out of a bigoted land, but one cannot remove bigotry out of the mind of a bigot.

In this case Zamani was reported and a Policeman showed up at his store to inquire about the sign. Poor Zamanai ignorant of the fact that the policeman had Persian background tried to lie to him saying the sign was about a sale or something to that effect. Of course the policeman confronted him and arrested him. The word is that he served jail sentence and paid a penalty. He now continues with his business, although not sure to what level of success. Apparently his store is Yonge Street north of Finch. Friends living in Toronto can inquire about it from him if they wish to share his wisdom.

To catch but a glimpse of this prejudice and bigotry, let's assume those of you living in free countries, when you show up to school, high school or university, you are told that Muslims are to sit in the very last row, and that is it. Imagine how you would react to this, even if you stay in the classroom, the uproar that the nation of Islam would create over this, and other retaliations that no doubt will ensue. Now juxtapose that with the Baha'i community of Iran that in spite of being some of the brightest minds, are not even allowed to ENTER the classroom. On the off chance that they do, thy are ridiculed, harassed and bullied, and eventually expelled without obtaining their credentials. They are also not allowed to obtain business permits, they are being watched and their homes being ransacked as being "searched". And on top of all that, they are being imprisoned and tortured and executed for their faith. In return for all these, they continue to serve their country and nation to the best of their ability and do not begrudge anyone. Reflect and ponder on this in your own hearts...