I think I answered both questions.
1) Reform of our society has started more than a half a century ago. It is the reform for our government that needs to take priority now. Small steps counts but one needs to take steps and not defer. What you are saying is deferring .. it is making excuse and pushing focus to some where else. At the same time we are post ponding the reform to the governemnt, thousands are becoming victims and life for some of us goes on.
2) I said I don't know and give you an answer, here is a copy and paste of that answer
3) To be honest not sure what those people see in Rohani. I asked few here including yourself and the answer I got was this
" I don't know him. I can not tell you anything specific about his resume. I am voting between bad and worst. I am voting because khatami endorsed him and ..."
I feel like those are quite common answer if you ask many inside Iran these days.
As I said earlier, lets see if he delivers on his campaign promises.
I think Iranian people are celebrating TOO EALRY for the Victory of an UNKNOWN Candidate ... I rather do the celebration in 4 years when I see the result.
Anyways, enjoy the day and this victory and lets hope you feel as happy and as optimistic about today, 4 years from now when you look back.
1) Reform of our society has started more than a half a century ago. It is the reform for our government that needs to take priority now. Small steps counts but one needs to take steps and not defer. What you are saying is deferring .. it is making excuse and pushing focus to some where else. At the same time we are post ponding the reform to the governemnt, thousands are becoming victims and life for some of us goes on.
2) I said I don't know and give you an answer, here is a copy and paste of that answer
3) To be honest not sure what those people see in Rohani. I asked few here including yourself and the answer I got was this
" I don't know him. I can not tell you anything specific about his resume. I am voting between bad and worst. I am voting because khatami endorsed him and ..."
I feel like those are quite common answer if you ask many inside Iran these days.
As I said earlier, lets see if he delivers on his campaign promises.
I think Iranian people are celebrating TOO EALRY for the Victory of an UNKNOWN Candidate ... I rather do the celebration in 4 years when I see the result.
Anyways, enjoy the day and this victory and lets hope you feel as happy and as optimistic about today, 4 years from now when you look back.
Great, so you admit that you don't understand the current society in Iran and their political behavior, right?
Which was exactly my point to begin with:
"Another indication that the society in Iran has changed/evolved significantly in this reform process is the significant difference in their voting (or non-voting) patterns with those outside Iran."
And more detailed in another post (not directed at you):
" At what point are you going to admit to yourselves that you simply don't understand the current society in Iran or how it behaves. I'm sure you were all very smart folks and had a very good understanding of the socio-economic dynamics of Iran when you left. But this is a DIFFERENT society. It has changed since you lived in it but you haven't changed or changed in a different way. People my age living in Iran don't understand its dynamics well, let alone us living abroad. And there is nothing wrong with that except you are trying to judge today's society with your yesterday's understanding, and that makes you look, well, out of touch. I really really don't mean anything disrespectful by this, but if you want to make a relevant judgement about today's Iran, you need to make an effort at understanding newer generations. I'm not saying you have to become like them, but you have to make a sincere effort at understanding them. "
Which was exactly my point to begin with:
"Another indication that the society in Iran has changed/evolved significantly in this reform process is the significant difference in their voting (or non-voting) patterns with those outside Iran."
And more detailed in another post (not directed at you):
" At what point are you going to admit to yourselves that you simply don't understand the current society in Iran or how it behaves. I'm sure you were all very smart folks and had a very good understanding of the socio-economic dynamics of Iran when you left. But this is a DIFFERENT society. It has changed since you lived in it but you haven't changed or changed in a different way. People my age living in Iran don't understand its dynamics well, let alone us living abroad. And there is nothing wrong with that except you are trying to judge today's society with your yesterday's understanding, and that makes you look, well, out of touch. I really really don't mean anything disrespectful by this, but if you want to make a relevant judgement about today's Iran, you need to make an effort at understanding newer generations. I'm not saying you have to become like them, but you have to make a sincere effort at understanding them. "
I hope that outside opposition mature up after this. In the past weeks I have read many articles by simple Iranians on facebook who are residing in Iran. I think they are very mature politically and the sentiments and the conduct of the outside opposition is too backward and incompatible for them. I also hope they change their tactics after this. Instead of resorting to rhetoric they should come out with real arguments and strategy. I hope this has become a good lesson for them. You cannot act like the same regime you are fighting and claim you are democratic. People in Iran can think critically and they are not dumb.
I'm just posting what I'm reading. It's hard to not get emotional. I know we're in for a rude awakening. It's hard not to want to share the drunkenness.
آدمها می***دوند به سمت خیابان اصلی. گویی دوباره خیابان مال آنها شده است. بوق می***زنند و می***خندند. شادباش می***گویند. موزیک ماشینها را تا نهایت بلند کرده***اند. آهنگهای زندانی، آزاد شده***اند! سربازی بی***خیالِ توبیخ و عتاب مافوقان، از پیکان «پلیس پیشگیری» بیرون آمده و می***رقصد. پیرمردی از روی دوچرخه برای دخترهایی که توی پورشه جیغ می***کشند، بوس می***فرستد. یک دربان افغانی گوشه***ی خیابان ایستاده و به پهنای صورت مهربانش اشک می***ریزد؛شادی همگانی از یادش برده است که اینجا کشور دیگران است نه سرزمین خودش. دختری محجّبه به دوست چادری***اش می***گوید: "بریم جلوی ستادش، حتمن اونجا رقص و پایکوبی بیشتره!" انگار به تماشای چیزی می***رود که سالها از خودش دور است. انگار دلش هوای تازه می***خواهد
آدمها می***دوند به سمت خیابان اصلی. گویی دوباره خیابان مال آنها شده است. بوق می***زنند و می***خندند. شادباش می***گویند. موزیک ماشینها را تا نهایت بلند کرده***اند. آهنگهای زندانی، آزاد شده***اند! سربازی بی***خیالِ توبیخ و عتاب مافوقان، از پیکان «پلیس پیشگیری» بیرون آمده و می***رقصد. پیرمردی از روی دوچرخه برای دخترهایی که توی پورشه جیغ می***کشند، بوس می***فرستد. یک دربان افغانی گوشه***ی خیابان ایستاده و به پهنای صورت مهربانش اشک می***ریزد؛شادی همگانی از یادش برده است که اینجا کشور دیگران است نه سرزمین خودش. دختری محجّبه به دوست چادری***اش می***گوید: "بریم جلوی ستادش، حتمن اونجا رقص و پایکوبی بیشتره!" انگار به تماشای چیزی می***رود که سالها از خودش دور است. انگار دلش هوای تازه می***خواهد
Hahahahaha, From all that and you came up with this !!! Great Job buddy.
As I said, I think your understanding of democracy and democratic election is very limited when you admit that you voted for a candidate that you know NOTHING about and think everyone should "align" themselves with majority
Anyway, good luck to you my friend. As I said, lets see if Rohani delivers on his promises and I hope we can celebrate in 4 years when an actual process is made and not just empty promises.
As I said, I think your understanding of democracy and democratic election is very limited when you admit that you voted for a candidate that you know NOTHING about and think everyone should "align" themselves with majority
Anyway, good luck to you my friend. As I said, lets see if Rohani delivers on his promises and I hope we can celebrate in 4 years when an actual process is made and not just empty promises.
The fact of the matter is most of us here were proponents of not voting.
a couple of relatives asked what I am going to do, I said I won't be voting but the you are more aware of the dynamics on the ground in Iran.
I would have personally preferred somebody like Aref who was not and akhoond and his wife dressed in a manto.
I think it is time as ISPiers, we collectively get some humility about our limited knowledge of Iranian society for all its good and bad.
Most of us were wrong, I predicted a 50% participation at most and it appears from all the celebration and that indeed the participation across the board was at least greater than 60%.
We are not the ones living under heavy international sanctions were heart transplants for infants have become impossible.
We are certainly not the ones dealing with the drought in Iran.
We are not dealing with thousand of issues other than the obvious political and cultural ones that plague Iran.
most folks here favored heavy international sanctions. most of us favored boycotting the election.
instead of blaming the "common" people all the time, I think it is time we examine ourselves and see whether we overestimate our knowledge of the the homeland.
a couple of relatives asked what I am going to do, I said I won't be voting but the you are more aware of the dynamics on the ground in Iran.
I would have personally preferred somebody like Aref who was not and akhoond and his wife dressed in a manto.
I think it is time as ISPiers, we collectively get some humility about our limited knowledge of Iranian society for all its good and bad.
Most of us were wrong, I predicted a 50% participation at most and it appears from all the celebration and that indeed the participation across the board was at least greater than 60%.
We are not the ones living under heavy international sanctions were heart transplants for infants have become impossible.
We are certainly not the ones dealing with the drought in Iran.
We are not dealing with thousand of issues other than the obvious political and cultural ones that plague Iran.
most folks here favored heavy international sanctions. most of us favored boycotting the election.
instead of blaming the "common" people all the time, I think it is time we examine ourselves and see whether we overestimate our knowledge of the the homeland.
Very simple things that should actively (not through weblogs) be demanded by people (not necessarily Rohani) right away:
1. Freedom of Mousavi, Karoubi and Rahnavard (whatever the hell she did?!!) in less than a week.
2. Demand all workers of IRIB to condemn IRIB's publicly funded propaganda for Osoolgara party.
A new wave of newspapers and sites should emerge. If they get rejected, they should raise a stink immediately.
The less patient the reformists pose, the more active people will become. This has easily been proven in the past. Patience does not necessarily yield results in these situations.
Radicalism may be detrimental, but too much patience is just as much if not more detrimental to reformist ideas.
1. Freedom of Mousavi, Karoubi and Rahnavard (whatever the hell she did?!!) in less than a week.
2. Demand all workers of IRIB to condemn IRIB's publicly funded propaganda for Osoolgara party.
A new wave of newspapers and sites should emerge. If they get rejected, they should raise a stink immediately.
The less patient the reformists pose, the more active people will become. This has easily been proven in the past. Patience does not necessarily yield results in these situations.
Radicalism may be detrimental, but too much patience is just as much if not more detrimental to reformist ideas.
In terms of knowledge and having access to resources and free media we are miles ahead of those living in Iran. You really can not ask for those who live outside Iran to support ignorant decisions when they are from outside the box looking in knowing whats going on.
I dont want to blame Iranians. They have to live with their decisions.
I dont want to blame Iranians. They have to live with their decisions.
Thank you!
There is nothing wrong with not understanding a society you have not lived in for a long time. It's just natural. The problem is when you decline to accept that your knowledge may have become obsolete. It's more of an issue with Iran because the population has changed A LOT in terms of its approach to politics.
When we keep being wrong about our expectations of the Iranian society, it's wise to revisit our expectations.
The expat community can play a very very significant role in political developments in Iran as they are not limited by many limitations that those inside have. But they can't do that if they keep insisting on seeing Iran through what they remember it was, or what it is in their mind. Until they make an effort to know the new Iran, the opposition outside Iran will continue to remain a joke with no actual relevance.
There is nothing wrong with not understanding a society you have not lived in for a long time. It's just natural. The problem is when you decline to accept that your knowledge may have become obsolete. It's more of an issue with Iran because the population has changed A LOT in terms of its approach to politics.
When we keep being wrong about our expectations of the Iranian society, it's wise to revisit our expectations.
The expat community can play a very very significant role in political developments in Iran as they are not limited by many limitations that those inside have. But they can't do that if they keep insisting on seeing Iran through what they remember it was, or what it is in their mind. Until they make an effort to know the new Iran, the opposition outside Iran will continue to remain a joke with no actual relevance.
Hahahahaha, From all that and you came up with this !!! Great Job buddy.
As I said, I think your understanding of democracy and democratic election is very limited when you admit that you voted for a candidate that you know NOTHING about and think everyone should "align" themselves with majority
Anyway, good luck to you my friend. As I said, lets see if Rohani delivers on his promises and I hope we can celebrate in 4 years when an actual process is made and not just empty promises.
As I said, I think your understanding of democracy and democratic election is very limited when you admit that you voted for a candidate that you know NOTHING about and think everyone should "align" themselves with majority
Anyway, good luck to you my friend. As I said, lets see if Rohani delivers on his promises and I hope we can celebrate in 4 years when an actual process is made and not just empty promises.