Should the World keep the “Military Option” against Iran “On the Table”?!!

Makaveli · Jul 14, 2011

Dear friend,
Your lack of respond to my comment is a strong proof that you were not able to find or are not even aware of any activity that NIAC has done in recent years to help the human right issues in Iran which, if true, is a waste since they are an influential organization and should allocate some resources in this area.
Your response actually amazes me since you started your argument by accusing others of NOT knowing anything about NIAC activity and getting their information from their " aunt and cousins" while you are also unable to provide any useful FACT about NIAC and what they have done for human rights in Iran.
This is two way street my friend, when you ask for proofs and facts, you should be able and ready to provide proofs and facts when advertising and cheer leading for a certain organization.

As far as a the rest of your post, it is Maghlateh Bazi and the point I was trying to make , has been made

.
I have now no more interest in going back and forth when you showed little ability to come back with anything substantial or meaningful that is worth discussing further.
It is also not fair to Masoud to diverge the topic of his thread to a discussion about NIAC and hence, this is my last post regarding NIAC on this thread.

Thank you and best of Luck

It's your last post regarding NIAC but at least be honest about why it's your last post. It's not because you're scared of derailing the topic, it's because I asked you a very specific question and you couldn't answer it.

As for your request(s) from me, write them out clearly and I will respond to you directly in the next post.

masoudA · Jul 14, 2011

Nilou Jaan -
In cases such as in Lybia.....the first thing the world can do to help locals who are fighting dictators on their own soil is to call for "No Fly Zones" and not allowing dictators to have aerial advantage......as France did and Nato and others followed. The no fly zone still stands today. France was the first to even go further and conduct air missions against Ghadafi......................

Maki
The only thing disgusting here is the way we must teach "Know it Alls" like you about NIAC and others who lobby for IR - and the way you learn things while arguing!! another disgusting trait not limited to just Iranians.

Natural · Jul 14, 2011

masoudA said:

Maghlateh bazi ALERT!!!

What massoud wrote above in NO WAY answers Niloufar's excellent post. But what can you do, when it comes to Massoud that has been his style all along.

masoudA · Jul 14, 2011

So Natural -
You finally decided to show up in this thread which was directed at YOU and IRANPAAK!! yet have nothing to say? lol - but not surprising.

Natural · Jul 14, 2011

masoudA said:

Keep up your Maghlateh bazi!

I agree 100% with Niloufar on this topic. I am not going to pile on.

Whenever you decide to answer her last post withtou Maghlateh bazi, I'll follow up

shahinc · Jul 14, 2011

Niloufar said:

They probably stopped his Army from entering Benghazi and killing every men and women that lives there.

Niloufar said:

Really !! How did you reach the conclusion of NO so quickly !! Libyan Army was within days of destroying the rebels and now in many fronts it is on the run. How did you come up with your NO answer so quickly.

Niloufar said:

Step by Step. they will get there. What is the rush ? In order to minimize the civilian casualty you can not go all out in an urban war.

Niloufar said:

How is this related to anything ?? There are families of Mohsen Rezaie in LA who are living like millionaires or Rafsanjani's family in Toronto and Lahijani in Vancouver and ...
what does this has to do with anything.Lets not mix the topic here.

Niloufar said:

How about the suffering that they experienced over the years under Gadafi ?
How about when they lived poor and Gadafi was going to his lavish vacations ?? Those were not suffering ?
How about the suffering of the rebels when they stood up for democracy and were being shot at in the street ?
How about when they decided they did not want Gadafi, his army and hired foreign killers started to rape these people and kill and bury them on mass graves ?

You are making it like these people had a rosy life

Come on, we both know that is not truth.

Niloufar said:

Yes there is and you know it.
Gafadi fighter jets were bombing nondiscriminatory civilian targets to open the road for his army to come in and rape and kill every breathing thing in the rebel controlled areas.
The proof is the first days of the conflict and how he was killing the oppositions like ants in his way.
On the other hand, so far, although there has been some mistakes, NATO has decided to bomb strategic locations and minimize the civilian damage.
Yes, there has been mistakes and there is a cost BUT if you look at what would have happened if NATO did not come to help, the opposition would have been finished and maybe hundred thousands of civilians would have been dead now.
It would have been a genocide.

All that being said, I am against Military Action for IRAN at this point but this is not the topic of this thread.
As the Wise man MOTORI said earlier, IR is a domestic problem and hopefully will be resolved domestically. There is NO reason for any other country to get involved yet and hopefully our people will take of their problems on their own.
Killings, Rapes, tortures and ... are all still isolated and not affecting majority of the population.

BUT if we see what we have seen in Libya which is huge uprising and a lose of control of major cities in Iran to people , like Shiraz and Esfehan or Tabriz, then
we see the Sepah fighter jets bombing these cities and Sepah with its tanks moving toward these cities and killing children and men and women and raping them and .... ( just like how things became in Libya),
then I do want the International community's help to STOP these killings and I am sure Iranian people inside Iran on those cities like Shiraz and Esfehan and Tabriz will ask for help from International communities ( Just like they did in Libya)
and don't want them to just sit quiet on the side.

But we are not there yet so no military engagement at this point makes sense.

masoudA · Jul 14, 2011

BUT if we see what we have seen in Libya which is huge uprising and a lose of control of major cities in Iran to people , like Shiraz and Esfehan or Tabriz, then
we see the Sepah fighter jets bombing these cities and Sepah with its tanks moving toward these cities and killing children and men and women and raping them and .... ( just like how things became in Libya),
then I do want the International community's help to STOP these killings and I am sure Iranian people inside Iran on those cities like Shiraz and Esfehan and Tabriz will ask for help from International communities ( Just like they did in Libya)
and don't want them to just sit quiet on the side.

But we are not there yet so no military engagement at this point makes sense.

Exellent - and what every sane Iranian must agree with.
I just add: Keeping the military option against dictators on the table usualy averts situations in which military actions are actualy required.

khodam · Jul 15, 2011

shahinc said:

First of all, you have to realize what NIAC is in its essence (and just to clarify I don't know people involved in NIAC so this is just my opinion) a lobbyist group for Iranian-Amricans. Their main focus is on reconciliation between the two countries. If you start from that position then you won't go on an all out war on the regime because that will close the door on rapprochement which is their top priority. And there is good logic to support rapprochement (as well as to oppose it) but that's beyond the point here which is that NIAC is made to operate based on negotiation and reconciliation policy as much as possible.

As for your question, and keeping the previous point in mind, I think they have done well. Specific human right actions? Here are a recent few from their web site:

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7449&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (on human rights monitor and call on Iran)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7401&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (human rights sanctions against IRGC and Basij)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7391&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (killing of Haleh Sahabi)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6819&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (concerns on executions)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6693&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (Shiva Nazar Ahari)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6665&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6477&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (Executions)

- http://www.niacouncil.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6607&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082 (Call on Obama to prevent execution)

A look at the web page also shows that NIAC has supported and lobbied for the "Stand With the Iranian People Act - HR4303", "Religious Freedom Resolution - HRES33", and "Baha'i Resolutions - HRES175 and SRES71.

They may have been able to do more, or they may have focused on one area more than another but it's very unfair to say they haven't done anything positive like MasoudA does.

masoudA · Jul 15, 2011

lool at great NIAC achievements.......I just leave it at that.

http://www.newmediajournal.us/pdf_files/irandoost_niac.pdf

khodam · Jul 15, 2011

masoudA said:

Wow!! Just wow. Did you really bring that document up to support your point? I give you credit as it was a recreational read. Just some highlights:

This is a poll about NIAC conducted by an organization called PDMI. The unbiased poll conductor starts like this:

"This report documents the opinions of 1,859 Iranians, Iranian-Americans and Americans concerning NIAC and Trita Parsi. For over a decade Mr. Trita Parsi has been advocating for policies favorable to the Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI), without calling itself as ―a lobby organization‖ for the IRI."

So much for unbiased polling. But the results:

- 99% of respondents believed NIAC was a lobbyist for the Islamic Republic.
- 99% of respondents believed that NIAD has defrauded the federal government
- 85% of respondents knew that Trita worked for Bob Ney
- 73% of respondents knew about Roy Coffee and David DiStefano

The best one is this:

- 90% of respondents were aware of the defamation lawsuit against Hassan Dai

That's even though only 86% of respondents were Iranian or Iranian-Americans!!! I see that even American public are tired of NIAC lobbying for IRI

That was a good laugh Masoud -- well done!!!:cheers:

masoudA · Jul 15, 2011

Well - to be honest with you - I give far more credit to people I do not know, than Trita Parsi and NIAC !!!

shahinc · Jul 15, 2011

khodam said:

Standing up for human rights and ... is NOT an all OUT war on the regime. It is stand for humanity and what is right.
You are correct that NIAC's focus has been on reconciliation between the two countries which seems to be more focused on removing sanctions and making it easier for trade and travel between the two countries which will benefit very selected few and NOT the ones in real need of help in my opinion.

Also Thank you for providing some links that shows their activities for human right issues. It is quite refreshing to see that they have not totally abandoned this area and managed to actually spend some of their resources in this area as well.

masoudA · Jul 15, 2011

Lool Shahin jaan - you are much better at getting along with others than I am.
As I said - for an organization which was formed 15 years and up to 2 years ago had not had ANY record of human rights activities....I call all of what was posted as "paint jobs"........activities which many individual hamvatans, TV stations,.......have been doing anyways...

shahinc · Jul 15, 2011

masoudA said:

Masoud jan,

The fact is that there are many question marks around NIAC. It starts with Trita and his part and goes to back to NIAC history, what they have been up to, where does the real funds come from , what was their focus till recently and ... However, to their credit, no one has been able to come up with real substantial dirt on them or find any solid evidence that links them to IR yet. Now, till that happens, all the question marks are just speculations and doubts and nothing more till the other side, comes up with resources and time to really investigate NIAC.

masoudA · Jul 15, 2011

Shahin Jaan - I do not know what would constitute as "real substantial dirt" to you......but for me, the official US court released documents on NIAC communications with IR officials are pretty convincing....

shahinc · Jul 15, 2011

masoudA said:

Pk, where is such a document? Which IR officials were they in contact with ? I have not heard of such a document or have not seen it and would appreciate if you can point me in the right direction.

masoudA · Jul 15, 2011

NIAC had to release all their communications - including e-mails to US courts during their trial vs. Hassan Daei...... I remember posting the e-mails here on ISP several years ago..... but I will look them up and will post them for you.

here is a Daei presentation on NIAC - will give you all the links you need.

[video=youtube;54nvvsToSVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54nvvsToSVg[/video]

Niloufar · Jul 16, 2011

masoudA said:

Masoud jan, first approach or not, please tell me have "no fly zone" and then "military air strike" help Libyans get rid of Gaddafi? The initial reason why they attacked Libya in the first place..

masoudA · Jul 16, 2011

Nilou jaan -
Yes it has helped the Lybian rebels...without the NFZ Ghadafi would have devastated them by now.....
however, we must also understand why France had to act alone!! There are certain countries including England who do not want Ghadafi removed.....they just want him in trouble!! just like IR, they don't want them gone, just pressured. As for Obama, he just follows what he is told......as I said earlier, there is no USA in world political affairs these days. Just like the Carter era, all who were friends of USA are in trouble (ala Mobarak)....Hoseein of Jordan must be shaking in his booths..

Mahdi · Jul 16, 2011

Great thread where a country at civil war where strategic targets got attacked by an alliance against the despotic regime is being compared with Iran(no civil war, no rebel movement, no real chance of a European alliance, further away from Europe, nothing like Libya). Keep it coming guys...

In the 2nd World War the attacks on Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki worked too...how about that?

Should the World keep the “Military Option” against Iran “On the Table”?!!

IPL Player

Legionnaire

IPL Player

Legionnaire

IPL Player

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Bench Warmer

Legionnaire

Bench Warmer

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Legionnaire

Football Legend

Legionnaire

Elite Member