Should the World keep the “Military Option” against Iran “On the Table”?!!

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#81

به سلامتی دریا!
که ماهی گندیده*هاشو دورنمی*ریزه




به سلامتی بیل!
که هرچه قدر بره تو خاک، بازم برّاق*تر می*شه.



به سلامتی عقرب!
که به خواری تن نمی ده

عرض شود که عقرب وقتی تو آتیش میره و دورش همش آتیشه با نیشش خودش میکُشه که کسی ناله*هاشو نشنوه





به سلامتی سیم خاردار!
که پشت و رو نداره




به سلامتی اونی که بی کسه ولی ناکس نیست



به سلامتي همه خوبا كه سخت مشغول شطرنج زندگي اند و نميدونن ما مات رفاقتشون هستيم


به سلامتی اونی که باخت تا رفیقش برنده باشه




بسلامتی بچه های قدیم كه با ذغال واسه ی خودشون سبیل می ذاشتن تا شبیه باباهاشون بشن
نه بچه های الان كه ابروهاشون رو بر می دارن تا شبیه مادراشون بشن




به سلامتی اونایی که می دونی هیچ وقت نمی تونی بهشون زنگ بزنی ولی بازم دلت نمی یاد شمارشونو از فون بوکت پاک کنی.....ا




گل آفتابگردان را گفتند: چراشبها سرت را پایین می اندازی؟ گفت :ستاره چشمک میزند، نمیخواهم به خورشید خیانت کنم..........

به سلامتی همه اونایی که مثل گل آفتابگردان هستند




به سلامتی آسمون که با اون همه ستاره اش یه ذره ادعا نداره
ولی یه سرهنگ با سه تا ستاره اش دهن عالم و آدمو سرویس کرده



و به سلامتی میخی که هرچی توسرش زدن خم نشد



Finally - Be Salamati Yassin
Keh har chi dare goosh khar mikhooni, khar tar misheh!!
Cheers.
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
3
#82
lesson learned here: vaghti kam miari to ye bahse jedi, akharesh ye sher begu (behtarin forme maghlate bazi) va sareto begir bala o az otagh boro biroon. hade aghal ine ke khodet fek mikoni injoori hich kas nemifame ziad baret nist o in kare kollan nisti.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#83
to chi migi joojeh...
just go read all what you have posted....see if you can find a shred of points or counterpoints......
kam ooni miareh keh karesh be paiin taneh mikesheh......

meanwhile - eat my dust and happy cheerleading.
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
3
#84
to chi migi joojeh...
just go read all what you have posted....see if you can find a shred of points or counterpoints......
kam ooni miareh keh karesh be paiin taneh mikesheh......

meanwhile - eat my dust and happy cheerleading.
loool.. you need to chill out. ;)
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
3
#86
The International Committee for Human Rights in Iran has published a 38-page report, "Raising Their Voices", with the commentaries of 35 prominent writers, lawyers, filmmakers, and activists inside the country about the impact of a military strike against Iran. Extracts from some of the testimonies:

Mohammad Seifzadeh, Lawyer

We have the experiences of World Wars I and II and experienced the Iran-Iraq war up close. We know that the events following these wars eliminated any social progress or political achievements. After the Iranian Constitutional Revolution, all the dedication and lives that were given for democracy and freedom resulted in Reza Shah’s dictatorship and World War II, and Iran lost so much. Generations of intellectuals are killed or imprisoned in the middle of these wars and democracy becomes barren.

We also saw that the Iran-Iraq war led to what happened in the 1980s. Violent crimes rose and a revolution whose main slogan was "freedom" and "independence", and had chosen the Islamic Republic in order to realize these goals, instead reached a point where it killed and oppressed its opponents. Supporters of human rights like us, who established the Center for Defenders of Human Rights, were persecuted and imprisoned. In the end, the goals of the 1979 revolution were not realized.

The social atmosphere we experienced immediately after the revolution was more open. All political activists and different groups could speak and be active and have their rights relatively respected. But as the war started, the atmosphere abruptly closed and society faced turmoil, violence, and assassinations, and groups were eliminated. Universities were shut down and their environments became restricted. Limitations were imposed on students, faculty, and staff. Generally, a new war would take us to a very bad environment. We are still paying for the violence that past wars forced on us.

If a war were to take place right now, the atmosphere would definitely become more restricted and more limitations would be imposed upon intellectuals, human rights activists, social elites and students. If the West wishes to realize democracy, freedom, and human rights worldwide it should consider options other than war.

Simin Behbahani, Poet

We have a very bad experience with war. We endured eight years of war with Iraq which was all a loss and not a penny of benefit. We fell down for years, the energy of our youth and our national wealth was wasted. Our youth were killed. Now, even if they give us millions in gold, I will never agree with war.

If the rulers are cruel people themselves should rise against them and change the conditions of their country, just as we see in other countries these days. Generally, I don’t like wars and I expect the United States, a very powerful country in the world and one with a good name, to act against war, because war does not solve anything.

Conditions for writers do not improve after a war. What a bad person would I need to be to wish a war, so that my [banned] books could be published. Even if I am buried under a ton of dirt and not even one line of my writings remain I would never agree to a war, not only in my own country, but in any corner of the world.

Tahmineh Milani, Filmmaker

We must not forget that Iranians are nationalistic and will not give even one molecule of their soil to foreigners. I lost a brother to the Iraq war, something I have never talked about and no one knows about. He was a soldier doing his compulsory military service. He suffered spinal injuries during the war and was paralyzed for ten years, and then he died. My mother died the following year. What did they die for, really? Sometimes people lose their lives to natural catastrophes, but sometimes we throw bombs and kill people. But why? Foreign governments may see us as inconsequential, but they have no right to think this way. We are a decent and good nation.

I don’t believe any country is authorized to take military action against Iran. As people experience cultural growth, they can do better things and find ways to reach democracy.

Under the current circumstances, I believe there is a probability that the Iranian government would use a war to establish its own political power, just as this happened during the eight-year war between Iran and Iraq. The government can use the war as an excuse and delay people’s demands. It is easier to control and suppress people under war conditions.

Ahmad Ghabel, Theologian

Any group who may take power following a violent change of political order would also resort to violence to suppress the population. This has been a historical problem for Iranians; that any group who reaches political power resorts to violence to suppress its opposition. If we want to put an end to this process, we must seek change through non-violent means.

Bombs cannot always distinguish between military targets and the civilian population. Also, the military personnel are Iranians who have families. The fact that the government doesn’t treat its population well doesn’t justify foreigners dropping bombs.

A military attack will be tremendously harmful to the people’s aspirations because our hearts and minds are not with foreign intervention. Assuming that a political change would follow an attack and the current system is replaced as a result, the new system would automatically be condemned because it had been empowered by foreign intervention. The time required for any new government to build trust with the people would be valuable time lost. Iranians have a historical memory of foreign interventions....

Considering the regime’s lack of mercy towards its opponents and the continuous accusation that opponents are foreign agents, if there is a military strike, the biggest damage will fall on national and religious opposition groups in Iran. It is even possible that their lives will be threatened.

Mohammad Maleki, Academic

An attack by foreign forces will harm everything. It is better that Iranians be allowed to solve their problems. They are well aware and conscious of what they need to do and there is no need for resorting to violence because it will not lead to any positive developments. If Iranians are seeking liberty, justice, and equality, they should develop their own means for achieving them.

A military intervention will undoubtedly lead to a much more closed environment inside the country and give the regime the perfect excuse to oppress the people even more.

Fakhrosaadat Mohtashamipour, Activist

International actors should focus on negotiations and not military confrontation. It is unimaginable that a military strike could resolve Iran’s problems or create a more open atmosphere. When we have a democratic movement and the ability for mass participation to bring about positive change, then war is certainly not the answer. We believe that with some patience and resistance the people can take society in a direction away from this militarized and coup-like atmosphere.

When you speak of freedom of opinion and free elections, these values are in opposition to the beliefs of the coup leaders [current government]. This does not mean that efforts [for reform] will be unsuccessful, however, it requires patience, persistence, attention, and enlightenment in society. Everyday people become more informed in regards to their society and their problems.

If there is a military strike against Iran it will certainly create a security state. Using war chatter [government officials] try to pressure the society, and to hinder civil society’s activities by accusing them of aiding the United States to attack Iran and helping the enemy. [In the case of war] there may be life threats made against civil society activists, and thus increased pressure on them. These are serious issues. In today’s atmosphere they are waiting for any sort of excuse. This is because war is the regime’s lifeline. They depend on it. They can thrive in a war environment.

Mohammad Ali Dadkhah, Journalist

Human rights advocacy aims to promote peace, stability, and prosperity of human beings. In contrast, a military attack means the killing of innocent human beings for no fault of their own. What kind of rationality could justify and accept such an action?

As someone who is engaged in the protection and promotion of human rights, I don’t believe a military attack would resolve any of our current concerns. Indeed, Iranian society’s attitude towards anyone who would advocate war under the guise of human rights and democracy would be terribly negative.”

If we look at the experiences of countries such as Iraq or Afghanistan, or any other country where legitimate human rights concerns were exploited for justifying military intervention, we see that there is no peace in such countries. We must believe in the fact that our need is to promote dialogue and rational interactions to solve our problems. The bitter experience of war should not be repeated. We should learn our lessons and plan accordingly.

Mahmoud Dowlatabadi, Author

I believe that war is one of the maladies of the human community; in the case of a potential war between Iran and the US, I believe the relations between the two countries will be ruined forever.”

I witnessed eight years of war with Iraq, which had no good coming out of it. Many writers were forced to leave Iran or became depressed and isolated. I don’t have a good experience from war.

I believe we writers can write more freely in Iran and publish our books if there is peace in the world. During a war, all conditions are compulsory, and in fact the government finds excuses to prevent cultural activities. I believe that with a war, the conditions for writers and artists not only do not improve; they get a lot worse.​

read the whole report here:
http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2011/07/raising-their-voices/
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#87
nothing should be done in iran other than by the hands of Iranian people. (inside together with the few millions outside)

military action against iran is a crime against our soil and our nation and it will strengthen the position of VELAYAT mafool akhounds and their rent boy ahmadi nejaasat.

Sanctions should be enforced to the extreme limit and that is about all others can do for us. We installed these haroom zadeh shiye whose roots go back to whore houses of bahrain and lebanon. we need to uninstall them once and for all.

The Kesafat that started by THE JEW eshaagh koleini and propogated by kale pook son of a whore mohamad bagher majlesi MUST BE TERMINATED IN blood and by the hands of IRanian people only.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#88
So KP - I have to ask you the million $ question I asked others...
Are you for or against giving IR military immunity? As you can see there is no easy answer....
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#90
It has already been defined in previous pages - but since you had been banned....

In the earli 80's and prior to releasing American hostages...USA gave IR a 15 year military immunity. Not longer after IR executed some 6,000 political prisoners.....
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#91
It has already been defined in previous pages - but since you had been banned....

In the earli 80's and prior to releasing American hostages...USA gave IR a 15 year military immunity. Not longer after IR executed some 6,000 political prisoners.....
am i correct in assuming military immunity means the US not to attack Iran.
If yes i am not for anyone giving anyone else military immunity for the simple reason that if for example IRGC suicide boats attack US warships they should retaliate with FULL MIGHT but to attack IRGC on iranian soil without provocation is bullshit in my view.

We have to, once and for all, do our own dirty laundry.
We need to organize militia and ourselves (inside and outside) attack the interests of IR. What NATO can do is to assist a military movement within Iran by disallowing IR planes to bomb its own people.

What US special forces can do is to send a hit squad to Tehran to assassinate the whole of shoraye negahbaan. I have absolutely nothing against anyone in any place WASTING an akhound. I would kiss their hands.

but to attack Iranian cities just for the sake of attacking it is pointless and gives more strength to the invading forces of Shiya islam.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#92
KP jaan -
When UN was formed.....the world community put in place some means through which any government that committs genocide against it's own population could be dealt with though military activities approved and conducted by UN. As it turned out.....UN proved useless in acting when crimes were committed against citizens of any nations......ala the case when K8 was invaded by Sadam or in former Yoguslavia where Moslems were being masacared......As a result USA had to step outside the UN format on several occasions dealing with issues UN could not.....such as the case of Bombing Ghadafi's house or Killing Ben Laden.....hence keeping criminal dictators on their toes and somewhat at bey against killing innocent civilians......... As I said - IR did get an immunity from such US actions in the early 80's - they are now seeking another one. I will not be surprised at all to hear Obama has given them the immunity......they did not announce the last one either until years later.....
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#93
now that u brought Libya example, what exactly did France, U.S and NATO in general achieved by bombing Libya? have they weakened Gaddafi? No. have they captured him? No.
.
An opposition that was on the run and was almost non existence thanks to Gaddafi's tanks and .... is NOW in the Capital city, hunting down Gaddafi like a rat thanks to the support of NATO , US and France. Without that support, Gaddafi might have been in power for another 10-20 more years after raping, torturing and killing all the people who were involved in the recent uprising.
 
Aug 27, 2005
8,688
0
Band e 209
#94
An opposition that was on the run and was almost non existence thanks to Gaddafi's tanks and .... is NOW in the Capital city, hunting down Gaddafi like a rat thanks to the support of NATO , US and France. Without that support, Gaddafi might have been in power for another 10-20 more years after raping, torturing and killing all the people who were involved in the recent uprising.
Shahin jAn,
Do you predict that Libyans will establish a rosy looking democratic system after fall of moaa'mmar? or will they endure 30 or more years of a jihadist regime like we have in Iran?

We went through this in 1979, when we accepted a cure which was far worse than the disease we have been fighting against.
 

oghabealborz

Elite Member
Feb 18, 2005
15,124
2,602
Strawberry field
#95
No patriot Iranian should wish for a foriegn force to attack or invade Iran , if God forbid they do it won't be for you and me benefit .

all the crap and trash talk of human rights issues in Iran pre revelution were not becuase they felt sorry for our lack of democracy ,it was for their own agenda and benefit .

Iran is not Libya or Tunisia ,unless you want to start a third world war do not even think of attacking Iran .

kass nakhaarad poshteh man joz nakhoneh angoshteh man ...lets never forget that .
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#96
OA
just take a good look at Lybia.....it was not possible without the rest of the world helping....
this "Kas Nakharad Posht e man........." thing is quiet lame. A cliche with zero value.....when it comes to an unarmed peaceful population such as ours....
If it was not for outside help, France and Italy would cease to exist today.

Having said that - you missed the question -
Should the world give a military immunity to IR?
 

oghabealborz

Elite Member
Feb 18, 2005
15,124
2,602
Strawberry field
#97
call it immunity or whatever,I am against any foriegn invasion ...

A Ghazvini guy took this young boy to his garden and started to impose himself on the young lad . The young lad started screaming and shouting for help , Ghazvini man said to him : dont shout ! if anybody hear you they come to help me not you !!
conclusion:dont rely on foriegn aid ....
 
Mar 13, 2007
2,966
0
#98
no because iranians deserve what they get. Someone else will take over to abuse them!

Iranians in general are big cowards, their history is a history full of cowards and cowardly acts and events. In their long history there are very few events or periods where this has not been the case.

Greeks, Romans, Macedonians, Ayrabs, mongols, afghans, turks and later russians, anglos, other europeans and later facsists, islamists and other in much smaller numbers have rolled over iranian people fairly easily.

In fact I would say even arabs have more balls than us as evident on TV!

Even here in northamerica Iranian youths are known to be the biggest cowards there are! sorry but its true
 
Aug 27, 2005
8,688
0
Band e 209
#99
Iranians in general are big cowards, their history is a history full of cowards and cowardly acts and events. In their long history there are very few events or periods where this has not been the case.
I.D.M
Over 2500 years of continues statehood and significant amount of contribution to world civilization says you are dead wrong.


In fact I would say even arabs have more balls than us as evident on TV!
Does engulfing in sectarian and civil war requires balls now?
Yemen, sectarian war
Syria, sectarian war
Libya, tribal war
Iraq, sectarian and civil war.

Iranians are not good at civil war b/c they never had one in their history.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
no because iranians deserve what they get. Someone else will take over to abuse them!

Iranians in general are big cowards, their history is a history full of cowards and cowardly acts and events. In their long history there are very few events or periods where this has not been the case.

Greeks, Romans, Macedonians, Ayrabs, mongols, afghans, turks and later russians, anglos, other europeans and later facsists, islamists and other in much smaller numbers have rolled over iranian people fairly easily.

In fact I would say even arabs have more balls than us as evident on TV!

Even here in northamerica Iranian youths are known to be the biggest cowards there are! sorry but its true
hmm,thats sadly true..cowards may be too harsh but rather "lazy" and "great conspiracy theorists" to justify our laziness.

I mean in case of Libya, if you read Libya rebels' background info, they consist of former govt-defects and militants(kind of like Mousavi-Karoubi group with more military strength) and were well funded by Western countries in the past few months..but jeez at least Libyans were on the streets non-stop in the past 9 months, as well as rebels fighting and not backing off.

If it wasnt for Libyan ppl's protests and Gaddafi's brutal attack on them evident to all, with a strong opposition group as alternative, NATO wouldnt risk the attack.

If our ppl wouldnt back off so early, and our supposed opposition leaders(I dont think they deserve to be called "leaders" but anyways) chickening out asking ppl to "stay home and stop fighting" until they were surrendered too, we would have a whole lot progress against our own dictatorship right now, with a lot less casualty.. If we count number of unjust hangings and imprisonment of dissidents in the past 2 yrs, it'll probably be more than Libyan casualties in the past 9 months all together.

But as always, we created "leader figures", half of us were split if they are our representatives or not. And wholeheartedly followed everything they said, even though at times wouldnt make sense. and when they told us to stop, we stopped..we didnt continue to reach our target. and now some ppl are cheering for foreign invasion to overthrow the regime for us!

Its our fault we have such destiny..its our fault Libyans and Syrians are reaching their goal under harshest conditions, but we have not. bc we dont WORK HARD together to achieve our goal. Sacrifice has no value for a lot of Iranians unfortunately..and those who do sacrifice their lives, are just a minority..:(