This only happened as the US bombed them over 20 times today since they don't want either side to win fully. They are just keeping the balance for now as their next action is being prepared. Turkey is way too much on the ISIS side and is playing a very dirty game. This whole situation and all the players involved are too complex to see what the ultimate goals are. I would say its similar to Kissinger's balance of powers when it comes to the United States and having everyone at bay.
loool at all the discussions about Qoran and Islam...
Those of you who think Qoran was sent to Mohammad from god almighty please stop reading the rest of this post.
Those of you who know Mohammad tried to make humans out of Arabs with the help of Salman Parsi - please don't forget.....Osman the 3rd Khalife rounded up all copies of Qoran circulating amongst Moslems and burnt them all!! What you have today as Qoran is what Osman edited and left behind. It is basically a manual on how to make good Moslem soldiers ready to kill and die.......I said it before and say it again....Arab culture pre and post ISlam was/is so backward even Islam could not fix it - what you have today as ISlam is not all about physical and material aspects of life and very little about spiritual needs of the soul. So stop blaming the religion it is the culture that is the problem. These are backward soul-less humans who are all about material side of life.
Those of you who think Qoran was sent to Mohammad from god almighty please stop reading the rest of this post.
Those of you who know Mohammad tried to make humans out of Arabs with the help of Salman Parsi - please don't forget.....Osman the 3rd Khalife rounded up all copies of Qoran circulating amongst Moslems and burnt them all!! What you have today as Qoran is what Osman edited and left behind. It is basically a manual on how to make good Moslem soldiers ready to kill and die.......I said it before and say it again....Arab culture pre and post ISlam was/is so backward even Islam could not fix it - what you have today as ISlam is not all about physical and material aspects of life and very little about spiritual needs of the soul. So stop blaming the religion it is the culture that is the problem. These are backward soul-less humans who are all about material side of life.
What you "said before" was wrong too Mass, so you can say it again and say it tomorrow too but its still wrong. It actually is blatantly wrong and shows the lack of knowledge here.
Arab culture pre Islam was way superior to post islam. In pre-islam Arabestan jews, christians, zoroastians, pagans were living a much more civilized life than it was the case in post-islam Arabia. Islam brought "nefaagh" upon them. There is a clear example for why they were more civilized to eachother and why they kept religion mostly out of their daily lifes. Arab tribes used to have contracts and commitments to other tribes and supported eachother in case of war. The interessting thing is, they never cared about religion. The same jewish "Bani Ghorayzeh" tribe which got almost completely murdered by Mohammad and Ali, had close relationship to some other non-jewish tribes and supported them in their wars against jewish tribes. Thats important to know because that tells us people decided who to help based on tribal interessts, human commitments and stuff like that and never based on religion. Islam came and destroyed the rest of whatever cultural and human foundation people had in that peninsula. Everything turned to a big head chopping ceremony. People got massacred, whole tribes got eliminated through genocidal acts of Mohammad and his followers. Many brave arabs opposed them and got destroyed by their sheer and unseen brutality of Mohammads gang.
We have to be honest to ourselves, its a well known fact that desert people are actually brave and honest and they are commited to their words and loyal to their friends. In Iran its not any different. Some of the bravest, most righteous and honest iranian tribes are living around kavir. A lot of brave arabs stood up to the that sick guy and his terroristic movement, he had to chop many many heads, he had to betray many people, he had to eliminate many tribes to finally make people bow down to his brutal force.
Arab culture pre Islam was way superior to post islam. In pre-islam Arabestan jews, christians, zoroastians, pagans were living a much more civilized life than it was the case in post-islam Arabia. Islam brought "nefaagh" upon them. There is a clear example for why they were more civilized to eachother and why they kept religion mostly out of their daily lifes. Arab tribes used to have contracts and commitments to other tribes and supported eachother in case of war. The interessting thing is, they never cared about religion. The same jewish "Bani Ghorayzeh" tribe which got almost completely murdered by Mohammad and Ali, had close relationship to some other non-jewish tribes and supported them in their wars against jewish tribes. Thats important to know because that tells us people decided who to help based on tribal interessts, human commitments and stuff like that and never based on religion. Islam came and destroyed the rest of whatever cultural and human foundation people had in that peninsula. Everything turned to a big head chopping ceremony. People got massacred, whole tribes got eliminated through genocidal acts of Mohammad and his followers. Many brave arabs opposed them and got destroyed by their sheer and unseen brutality of Mohammads gang.
We have to be honest to ourselves, its a well known fact that desert people are actually brave and honest and they are commited to their words and loyal to their friends. In Iran its not any different. Some of the bravest, most righteous and honest iranian tribes are living around kavir. A lot of brave arabs stood up to the that sick guy and his terroristic movement, he had to chop many many heads, he had to betray many people, he had to eliminate many tribes to finally make people bow down to his brutal force.
There is nothing "we" can do. There is only something every single person can do for himself which is just stay away from religions in generell specially from islam. I for my one, dont need anyone to tell me whats wrong and whats right. I dont need Ahoora Mazda either to be honest but if an iranian really feels like he needs a god or something to grab a hold of, he should go back to his roots and start reading Avesta and specially the "Yasht" within Avesta which are probably the oldest, purest and most beautiful iranian writings which in a lot of cases even talk about iranian scholars and gods before the time of zartosht. When you read them and compare them to this insane book put together by ill minded terrorists and head choppers, we really should be ashamed of ourselves for forgetting about our own beautiful "Yasht" and accepting this piece of unhuman dirt instead.
I say there is no "we" because i am not delusional. We can not reach the masses. The majority are infected by that virus and before you can give them a medicin in any form they will kill you.
My personal approach is that i dont follow any religion because i came behind the idea of religion. There has always been one guy who tried to control other peoples minds which always leads to mullahism in one or another form because around a religion there are always hyenas who will try to get rich and powerfull through that religion. Be it a sheikh, mullah, mufti, mobede zartoshi, christian bishops, jewish raabis or bhuddist monks...they are essentially all the same. However the essence of a religion should be of interest. The man behind that religion should be of interest. When you look at such a nice and wise person such as Zartosht and compare it to Mohammad who was most certainly and without any doubt a sick guy, then you as a healthy and logical man should not even hesitate for a second to chose zartosht and listen to what he had to say. As i said, if you find time, try to find the "Yasht" of Avesta. Wonderful stories written several thousends years ago documenting the sensible aryan-iranian mind.
Man migam AGAR hatman be yek mazhab ehtiaaj daarid, bad nist be mazhab irooniye khodemoon yek shansi bedim. kheyli zibaa tar, ghashang tar va latif tar az eslaam o ghoraane. khaali az eshtebaah nist, vali be hich vajh ghaabele moghaayese baa in gofte haaye vahshatnak dar ghoraan nist.
I say there is no "we" because i am not delusional. We can not reach the masses. The majority are infected by that virus and before you can give them a medicin in any form they will kill you.
My personal approach is that i dont follow any religion because i came behind the idea of religion. There has always been one guy who tried to control other peoples minds which always leads to mullahism in one or another form because around a religion there are always hyenas who will try to get rich and powerfull through that religion. Be it a sheikh, mullah, mufti, mobede zartoshi, christian bishops, jewish raabis or bhuddist monks...they are essentially all the same. However the essence of a religion should be of interest. The man behind that religion should be of interest. When you look at such a nice and wise person such as Zartosht and compare it to Mohammad who was most certainly and without any doubt a sick guy, then you as a healthy and logical man should not even hesitate for a second to chose zartosht and listen to what he had to say. As i said, if you find time, try to find the "Yasht" of Avesta. Wonderful stories written several thousends years ago documenting the sensible aryan-iranian mind.
Man migam AGAR hatman be yek mazhab ehtiaaj daarid, bad nist be mazhab irooniye khodemoon yek shansi bedim. kheyli zibaa tar, ghashang tar va latif tar az eslaam o ghoraane. khaali az eshtebaah nist, vali be hich vajh ghaabele moghaayese baa in gofte haaye vahshatnak dar ghoraan nist.
China - cultures can not be whitewashed with a single event of religion.
Here is a couple of paragraphs fully explaining the pre Islam Arab life and culture.......it pretty much rhymes with what Iranian historians say and what we see them evolve into these days.
".........................The most remarkable feature of the political life of Arabia before Islam was the total absence of political organization in any form. With the exception of Yemen in the south-west, no part of the Arabian peninsula had any government at any time, and the Arabs never acknowledged any authority other than the authority of the chiefs of their tribes. The authority of the tribal chiefs, however, rested, in most cases, on their character and personality, and was moral rather than political.
The modern student of history finds it incredible that the Arabs lived, generation after generation, century after century, without a government of any kind. Since there was no government, there was no law and no order.
The only law of the land was lawlessness. In the event a crime was committed, the injured party took law in its own hands, and tried to administer “justice” to the offender. This system led very frequently to acts of horrendous cruelty.
If the Arab ever exercised any modicum of restraint, it was not because of any susceptibility he had to questions of right or wrong but because of the fear of provoking reprisals and vendetta. Vendetta consumed whole generations of Arabs.
Since there were no such things as police, courts or judges, the only protection a man could find from his enemies, was in his own tribe. The tribe had an obligation to protect its members even if they had committed crimes. Tribalism or ‘asabiyya (the clan spirit) took precedence over ethics. A tribe that failed to protect its members from their enemies, exposed itself to ridicule, obloquy and contempt. Ethics, of course, did not enter the picture anywhere.
Since Arabia did not have a government, and since the Arabs were anarchists by instinct, they were locked up in ceaseless warfare. War was a permanent institution of the Arabian society. The desert could support only a limited number of people, and the state of inter-tribal war maintained a rigid control over the growth of population. But the Arabs themselves did not see war in this light.
To them, war was a pastime or rather a dangerous sport, or a species of tribal drama, waged by professionals, according to old and gallant codes, while the “audience” cheered. Eternal peace held no appeal for them, and war provided an escape from drudgery and from the monotony of life in the desert.
They, therefore, courted the excitement of the clash of arms. War gave them an opportunity to display their skills at archery, fencing and horsemanship, and also, in war, they could distinguish themselves by their heroism and at the same time win glory and honor for their tribes. In many cases, the Arabs fought for the sake of fighting, whether or not there was a cause belli........"
Source: Arabia Before Islam - Al-Islam.org
Here is a couple of paragraphs fully explaining the pre Islam Arab life and culture.......it pretty much rhymes with what Iranian historians say and what we see them evolve into these days.
".........................The most remarkable feature of the political life of Arabia before Islam was the total absence of political organization in any form. With the exception of Yemen in the south-west, no part of the Arabian peninsula had any government at any time, and the Arabs never acknowledged any authority other than the authority of the chiefs of their tribes. The authority of the tribal chiefs, however, rested, in most cases, on their character and personality, and was moral rather than political.
The modern student of history finds it incredible that the Arabs lived, generation after generation, century after century, without a government of any kind. Since there was no government, there was no law and no order.
The only law of the land was lawlessness. In the event a crime was committed, the injured party took law in its own hands, and tried to administer “justice” to the offender. This system led very frequently to acts of horrendous cruelty.
If the Arab ever exercised any modicum of restraint, it was not because of any susceptibility he had to questions of right or wrong but because of the fear of provoking reprisals and vendetta. Vendetta consumed whole generations of Arabs.
Since there were no such things as police, courts or judges, the only protection a man could find from his enemies, was in his own tribe. The tribe had an obligation to protect its members even if they had committed crimes. Tribalism or ‘asabiyya (the clan spirit) took precedence over ethics. A tribe that failed to protect its members from their enemies, exposed itself to ridicule, obloquy and contempt. Ethics, of course, did not enter the picture anywhere.
Since Arabia did not have a government, and since the Arabs were anarchists by instinct, they were locked up in ceaseless warfare. War was a permanent institution of the Arabian society. The desert could support only a limited number of people, and the state of inter-tribal war maintained a rigid control over the growth of population. But the Arabs themselves did not see war in this light.
To them, war was a pastime or rather a dangerous sport, or a species of tribal drama, waged by professionals, according to old and gallant codes, while the “audience” cheered. Eternal peace held no appeal for them, and war provided an escape from drudgery and from the monotony of life in the desert.
They, therefore, courted the excitement of the clash of arms. War gave them an opportunity to display their skills at archery, fencing and horsemanship, and also, in war, they could distinguish themselves by their heroism and at the same time win glory and honor for their tribes. In many cases, the Arabs fought for the sake of fighting, whether or not there was a cause belli........"
Source: Arabia Before Islam - Al-Islam.org
quoting al-islam.org? People who lie about pre-islam history of arabestan to convince people that islam brought them civilization? hm..ok.
However i dont know what exactly you are trying to tell me Mass. you probably didnt read my previews post in this regard well enough. I didnt say arabs didnt make war. I didnt say they had a wonderful working government. I said: the pre-islam arabs were more civilized than the post-islamic arabs. All tribes and people who come from the desert do have similar characteristics Mass. They are brave, they are good warriors and they tend to be unorganized. Arabs were the same, they were good warriors. You read old islamic sources and you see how many brave and really righteous arab warriors were actually OPPOSING sepaahe eslaam. They had warriors like amr Ebn Abde Vad who in a high age of between 70 and 80 challenged the whole sepaahe eslaam including Mohammad and Ali and no one dared to face that old man sitting on his white horse yelling at moslems: Come out and face me, either you send me to that place you call hell or i send you to your own paradise! After minutes of fear among all fighters of sepaahe eslam Ali came out and faced him and even then he ridiculed ali telling him: I know your uncle kid, go back to your ranks i dont want to kill you. Ali at the end killed him based on pure neyrang o hile diverting his attention and once he looked behind his shoulder Ali cut his leg.
What i am trying to tell you is: War has always been there. Iranians made war against other iranians for thousends of years. There are loads of war stories inwhich Persians attacked or got attacked by north iranian tribes of Scythians and Sarmatians. What we should pay attention to though is the culture of war and how they conducted themselves. Islam brought neyrang o hile upon proud arabs who had warriors as big as Omar Ebn Abdevad who never feared anyone and always conducted himself like a man and only lies and tricks of Ali could bring that old man down. Arabs did not know those dirty tactics, They did not know khod'a, they did not know taghiya. During a war, people show actually what they are made of. Islam was based on brutality mixed with hile o neyrang o doroogh o tajaavoz be hagh o ghoooghe digaraan. In that regard, arabs clearly regressed. They were good, reliable soldiers. Even kourosh had an arabian Satrpie and an arab division within his army who were among the best Achemenid fighters.
So i am not sure what exactly you are trying to tell me. Yes they were not as advanced, they were not as organized, they were not as rich as we persians were, so they sometimes had to make war because of water but they had their own characteristics and some of them were very good. Their word used to be worth something. They did not base their friendship on religion. A lot of religions coexisted in arabia, many persians used to live there, zoroastrian belief was very well known and some of the yemenite or eastern tribes were following zartoshts religion and they never had any issues with jews. Islam came and everything went down, pluralism disappeard, manhood disappeared, following the principals of war disappeared so that wars became completely lawless. This is why i say islam was a disaster to the culture of the arab people.
However i dont know what exactly you are trying to tell me Mass. you probably didnt read my previews post in this regard well enough. I didnt say arabs didnt make war. I didnt say they had a wonderful working government. I said: the pre-islam arabs were more civilized than the post-islamic arabs. All tribes and people who come from the desert do have similar characteristics Mass. They are brave, they are good warriors and they tend to be unorganized. Arabs were the same, they were good warriors. You read old islamic sources and you see how many brave and really righteous arab warriors were actually OPPOSING sepaahe eslaam. They had warriors like amr Ebn Abde Vad who in a high age of between 70 and 80 challenged the whole sepaahe eslaam including Mohammad and Ali and no one dared to face that old man sitting on his white horse yelling at moslems: Come out and face me, either you send me to that place you call hell or i send you to your own paradise! After minutes of fear among all fighters of sepaahe eslam Ali came out and faced him and even then he ridiculed ali telling him: I know your uncle kid, go back to your ranks i dont want to kill you. Ali at the end killed him based on pure neyrang o hile diverting his attention and once he looked behind his shoulder Ali cut his leg.
What i am trying to tell you is: War has always been there. Iranians made war against other iranians for thousends of years. There are loads of war stories inwhich Persians attacked or got attacked by north iranian tribes of Scythians and Sarmatians. What we should pay attention to though is the culture of war and how they conducted themselves. Islam brought neyrang o hile upon proud arabs who had warriors as big as Omar Ebn Abdevad who never feared anyone and always conducted himself like a man and only lies and tricks of Ali could bring that old man down. Arabs did not know those dirty tactics, They did not know khod'a, they did not know taghiya. During a war, people show actually what they are made of. Islam was based on brutality mixed with hile o neyrang o doroogh o tajaavoz be hagh o ghoooghe digaraan. In that regard, arabs clearly regressed. They were good, reliable soldiers. Even kourosh had an arabian Satrpie and an arab division within his army who were among the best Achemenid fighters.
So i am not sure what exactly you are trying to tell me. Yes they were not as advanced, they were not as organized, they were not as rich as we persians were, so they sometimes had to make war because of water but they had their own characteristics and some of them were very good. Their word used to be worth something. They did not base their friendship on religion. A lot of religions coexisted in arabia, many persians used to live there, zoroastrian belief was very well known and some of the yemenite or eastern tribes were following zartoshts religion and they never had any issues with jews. Islam came and everything went down, pluralism disappeard, manhood disappeared, following the principals of war disappeared so that wars became completely lawless. This is why i say islam was a disaster to the culture of the arab people.
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از علی آموز اخلاص عمل
شیر حق را دان مطهر از دغل
در غزا بر پهلوانی دست یافت
زود شمشیری بر آورد و شتافت
او خدو انداخت در روی علی
افتخار هر نبی و هر ولی
آن خدو زد بر رخی که روی ماه
سجده آرد پیش او در سجده***گاه
در زمان انداخت شمشیر آن علی
کرد او اندر غزااش کاهلی
گشت حیران آن مبارز زین عمل
وز نمودن عفو و رحمت بی***محل
گفت بر من تیغ تیز افراشتی
از چه افکندی مرا بگذاشتی
آن چه دیدی بهتر از پیکار من
تا شدی تو سست در اشکار من
آن چه دیدی که چنین خشمت نشست
تا چنان برقی نمود و باز جست
آن چه دیدی که مرا زان عکس دید
در دل و جان شعله***ای آمد پدید
آن چه دیدی برتر از کون و مکان
که به از جان بود و بخشیدیم جان
In ham maast malieh Molana az kareh kasifeh Ali.
شیر حق را دان مطهر از دغل
در غزا بر پهلوانی دست یافت
زود شمشیری بر آورد و شتافت
او خدو انداخت در روی علی
افتخار هر نبی و هر ولی
آن خدو زد بر رخی که روی ماه
سجده آرد پیش او در سجده***گاه
در زمان انداخت شمشیر آن علی
کرد او اندر غزااش کاهلی
گشت حیران آن مبارز زین عمل
وز نمودن عفو و رحمت بی***محل
گفت بر من تیغ تیز افراشتی
از چه افکندی مرا بگذاشتی
آن چه دیدی بهتر از پیکار من
تا شدی تو سست در اشکار من
آن چه دیدی که چنین خشمت نشست
تا چنان برقی نمود و باز جست
آن چه دیدی که مرا زان عکس دید
در دل و جان شعله***ای آمد پدید
آن چه دیدی برتر از کون و مکان
که به از جان بود و بخشیدیم جان
In ham maast malieh Molana az kareh kasifeh Ali.
Qur'an (33:50) - "O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom allah has assigned to thee" This is one of several personal-sounding verses "from allah" narrated by "mamad zan baz" - in this case allowing himself a virtually unlimited supply of sex partners. Other muslims are restrained to four wives, but, following the example of their prophet, may also have sex with any number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:
What I am saying is simple - people who lived in the Saudi Peninsula, because of many reasons including topography, have been centuries behind the civilized world. Some historians suggest they did not develop language for hundreds of years after people in the Iranian plateau had devised writing!! I have no doubt about the backwardness Islam bestows on populations......however my point was/is what we are witnessing from ISIS is before everything else, culture driven. It is because of the Arab culture Qoran is full of orders to beat, enslave and kill.
Why are you ignoring the waves of arab opponents to Islam and Mohammad? Why dont you go and read why Mohammad had to make so many actually countless wars against his opponents within Arabia? A big number of arabs rejected mohammad, they laughted about him and his bullshit. Countless guys resisted Mohammad and his Islam and fought against it until the last breath. I am still not sure what you are trying to tell me Mass. All that resistence mohammad had to face, all those heads he had to chop to finally break the arabs will, is a clear indication for the fact that Mohammads islam was even too much for the arabs. It was so senseless that people refused to accept it. Islam got imposed on the arabs just like it got imposed on us iranians too. Thats all i say and its cristal clear. I dont know what the argument is. Arab people before islam were just people like many others around the world. We had two big world powers the Sassanids and the Romans and other the rest were living their lifes with alot of tribal wars and killings even in europe. The world in general was a primitive and violent place, we had other violent abrahamic religions, but Islam went over the top. Mohammad institutionalized and legalized criminal acts, murdering and violence and created a connection to god which made the whole thing to the biggest threat to humanity until today. When a man kills without getting his motivation from a so called godly book, its a man you can handle, its a man you can corner but when millions start killing and refer their doings to an accepted god and his book, then its a disaster.
Daash Chinaski , you asked me ehat you didn't undrestand about me , na inke bedeh bestoon baashe but may I ask something from you , why you put time to make somebody understand while you clearly know he already made up his mind in all aspect , closed ears and eyes on to anything is not fitted in his small box ?
I dont know why i am doing it. Probably because i have seen people change on this board. I have chosen my signature line on purpose. People truely are not born stupid, they are born ignorant. The education they recieve make them stupid. Now i try to change that education. Har tekooni ke be maghz bedi, khoobe afri jaan, har ghadame koochaki, har ghadami ke baaes she taraf bere andaaze sare soozan shak kone o shoroo kone be tahghigh khoobe.
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No my dear Flint - Aslan is an Islam apologist......I have no doubt about Islam backwardness, consider it more of a liability than asset, and certainly believe for the religion to survive it needs a renaissance. This upcoming renaissance however, can suceed in Iran or in Malaysia,........or just about everywhere other than Saudi Arabia, because of of one factor. Their culture which is the fundamental reason for Islam backwardness.
BTW - here is a little gift for ISPers - ISIS member having sex captured by drone cameras
[video=youtube_share;iHibEZoHSZU]http://youtu.be/iHibEZoHSZU[/video]
BTW - here is a little gift for ISPers - ISIS member having sex captured by drone cameras
[video=youtube_share;iHibEZoHSZU]http://youtu.be/iHibEZoHSZU[/video]
Geography and consequently tribalism are among the reasons of backwardness of many people. Religion itself is also making the situation worst. But you are right and this is the same point many historians, anthropologists, sociologists and political scientists try to make, which is that geography and following that the cultural ties that develop as a result of geography (in Arab's case tribalism) are among the primary reasons for the issues.