When is a Country Ready for Democracy ??

B

beystr

Bench Warmer
#41
Oct 18, 2002
942
0
iran
#41
The most interesting and keleedy question Amirza jon, believe me I've thought it and think about it all the time...... anyway here is what I think Iran needs:
EnsAf......I don't think any big process can be successful or can even start without the participents having large degree of EnsAf in their outlook toward life and if uthink about lot of the obstecles in demorucy and otherwise can be sorted out with a little bit of big "E".

Paying for it.......you know lot of third world countries get bugged down on having enough EnsAf to pay for the way of a highly skillful government.Be ready for high taxes and accept that a good system won't just grow out of your goodness alone.

Beleive in power of one.......undrestanding that u and what u do and say and think does and could make a difference.but don't get scared away from this ...... u gotto take part and don't worry or feel threatend by being wrong. remember "EnsAf"

Tolerance......I think one with EnsAf would have patience and tolerance toward others.


Power.....don't be affarid of delgating power to one or more people who happened to be lot better than you. "E"


King......I have said it before.......there may be a time and a day great governments can work without a designated King/queen........or at worst a Rahbar.......U can bet that IRI was long long gone if it didn't have Velayate Faghieh...there is no reason people with enough EnsAf can't make good use of a big guy/girl at the top who can take lot of the lowlifeness out of polotics and be a do gooder and set high standard goals for and give the sense of continuity for a country......thank god more than enough examples shine on top of some of the most well run governments in the world.......and again its my opinion that Iran will have one or the other for long time..and its actually a good thing....
 
B

beystr

Bench Warmer
#42
Oct 18, 2002
942
0
iran
#42
The most interesting and keleedy question Amirza jon, believe me I've thought it and think about it all the time...... anyway here is what I think Iran needs:
EnsAf......I don't think any big process can be successful or can even start without the participents having large degree of EnsAf in their outlook toward life and if uthink about lot of the obstecles in demorucy and otherwise can be sorted out with a little bit of big "E".

Paying for it.......you know lot of third world countries get bugged down on having enough EnsAf to pay for the way of a highly skillful government.Be ready for high taxes and accept that a good system won't just grow out of your goodness alone.

Beleive in power of one.......undrestanding that u and what u do and say and think does and could make a difference.but don't get scared away from this ...... u gotto take part and don't worry or feel threatend by being wrong. remember "EnsAf"

Tolerance......I think one with EnsAf would have patience and tolerance toward others.


Power.....don't be affarid of delgating power to one or more people who happened to be lot better than you. "E"


King......I have said it before.......there may be a time and a day great governments can work without a designated King/queen........or at worst a Rahbar.......U can bet that IRI was long long gone if it didn't have Velayate Faghieh...there is no reason people with enough EnsAf can't make good use of a big guy/girl at the top who can take lot of the lowlifeness out of polotics and be a do gooder and set high standard goals for and give the sense of continuity for a country......thank god more than enough examples shine on top of some of the most well run governments in the world.......and again its my opinion that Iran will have one or the other for long time..and its actually a good thing....
 
beystr 2.0

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
#43
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#43
The most interesting and keleedy question Amirza jon, believe me I've thought it and think about it all the time...... anyway here is what I think Iran needs:
EnsAf......I don't think any big process can be successful or can even start without the participents having large degree of EnsAf in their outlook toward life and if uthink about lot of the obstecles in demorucy and otherwise can be sorted out with a little bit of big "E".

Paying for it.......you know lot of third world countries get bugged down on having enough EnsAf to pay for the way of a highly skillful government.Be ready for high taxes and accept that a good system won't just grow out of your goodness alone.

Beleive in power of one.......undrestanding that u and what u do and say and think does and could make a difference.but don't get scared away from this ...... u gotto take part and don't worry or feel threatend by being wrong. remember "EnsAf"

Tolerance......I think one with EnsAf would have patience and tolerance toward others.


Power.....don't be affarid of delgating power to one or more people who happened to be lot better than you. "E"


King......I have said it before.......there may be a time and a day great governments can work without a designated King/queen........or at worst a Rahbar.......U can bet that IRI was long long gone if it didn't have Velayate Faghieh...there is no reason people with enough EnsAf can't make good use of a big guy/girl at the top who can take lot of the lowlifeness out of polotics and be a do gooder and set high standard goals for and give the sense of continuity for a country......thank god more than enough examples shine on top of some of the most well run governments in the world.......and again its my opinion that Iran will have one or the other for long time..and its actually a good thing....
__________________
 
D

deerouz

Captain
#44
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#44
Fole_Penalt said:
Well, well, since everyone is speaking so highly of Cyrus in light of a thread on freedom:

None of this quote actually is in Cyrus's cylinder except the first part before "he continues..."

Instead it is part of the fantastic imagination of Iranians the majority of whom treat reality with immense disdain choosing instead to passionately argue for their own fantasies in history, in poetry, in philosophy, in anything and everything but reality.
Click to expand...
Good point. We often fantasize a little bit too much about our past. Cyrus was a maginifcant king, but his Babylon statement is not a "decalaration of human rights".
 
Persian_Beauty

Persian_Beauty

Bench Warmer
#45
Jun 24, 2005
1,442
0
#45
".....This is not a direct commentary about you PersianBeauty; you may have very well not know that this is an imaginary version of What Cyrus's cylinder says. Though the author(s) do such a poor job of embelishing their fantasies that the language is so clearly identifiable as not belonging to Cyrus or his time it is laughable....."

Thank you for voicing that...I certainly like to hear everyone's opinion when they "question" history...science... and their logics behind it...

I love to know why you think the authors were bias by embelishing the truth about him? The World History recognizes Cyrus the Great as the FIRST leader in the World who introduced the laws of Freedom for his people....??( I do not look for perfections in people and I certainly don't care to judge anyone's imperfection...and that includes Cyrus the Great)

Please elaborate more on your view...I love to hear more of why you believe this was all a fiction of some authors' fantasies....Please!

Thank you....
 
R_E_Z_A

R_E_Z_A

IPL Player
#46
Jan 16, 2004
2,916
0
#46
takbetak said:
a country is ready for Democracy when it's gets bombed to rubbles & subsequently occupied by the forces of Freedom & Liberty.
Click to expand...
Thank you :)

Does'nt this answer you Amirza? actually this the most practical way that we are seeing nowadays. And is'nt you who advocate the above "method" to get Iran Democratic?
 
The_Referee

The_Referee

National Team Player
#47
Mar 26, 2005
5,534
0
Jabolqa Opposite Jabolsa
#47
deerouz said:
Good point. We often fantasize a little bit too much about our past. Cyrus was a maginifcant king, but his Babylon statement is not a "decalaration of human rights".
Click to expand...
That is quite right.

Cyrus was great but he was a King of a great empire in an anciant
time. Even if he had magic and divine powers it was next to impossible
to mind all that vast empire without any brutality, some of which
are evident from his successor, Darius's boasting about his barabaric
punishment of his oponents employing methods such as ear cutting
and eye poking in his Behistun inscriptions.

Well, what can I say, human beings being human beings always do so...
Read Turah, Shahnameh, Homer and you see what I mean...
 
Fole_Penalt

Fole_Penalt

IPL Player
#48
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
#48
Persian_Beauty said:
Please elaborate more on your view...I love to hear more of why you believe this was all a fiction of some authors' fantasies....Please!
Thank you....
Click to expand...
All right. No it is not all a fiction. The part I referred to, the majority of the passage that you had quoted as Cyrus', is a fiction because it is a fiction. It is not a part of anything that has been found as Cyrus' or for that matter anyone's from the ancient times.

Instead the translation that I posted, part of which was included in the top part of the quote you posted, is in fact that of Cyrus' cylinder. The difference is large.

However, as is, with all its short-comings and silliness by our standards, that writing is simply a breakthrough in governance, in reality not just theory of governance for humanity. It is the first instance of a declaration of peaceful consideration for a conquered people, of allowing conquered nations to keep their religion, culture, and language.

There is no need to resort to fantastic embellishment. It is the realization that humans, every single human ever are all far, far short of perfect. Every single human ever was, is, and will be full of faults, some are just better than others. It is breaking down idol worship. It is then understanding that you have to consider each in his own time. Humans are no better now than 2,500 years ago. If the ancients seem silly and backwards to us now it is only because we have the benefit of their experience and our circumstances are different. It is accepting and submitting to reality instead of wishing to substitute our own fantasy for reality.
 
General Parsaian

General Parsaian

Coach
#49
May 9, 2004
15,168
179
#49
When is a Country Ready for Democracy ??
I dont like democracy becouse its the ugleist face of dictatorship
In old dictatorship one person ruling the country and you have to obey what he saying
In new dictatorship(democracy) they are 1000s who ordering you and washing your brian
 
Persian_Beauty

Persian_Beauty

Bench Warmer
#50
Jun 24, 2005
1,442
0
#50
Fole_Penalt said:
All right. No it is not all a fiction. The part I referred to, the majority of the passage that you had quoted as Cyrus', is a fiction because it is a fiction. It is not a part of anything that has been found as Cyrus' or for that matter anyone's from the ancient times.

Instead the translation that I posted, part of which was included in the top part of the quote you posted, is in fact that of Cyrus' cylinder. The difference is large.

However, as is, with all its short-comings and silliness by our standards, that writing is simply a breakthrough in governance, in reality not just theory of governance for humanity. It is the first instance of a declaration of peaceful consideration for a conquered people, of allowing conquered nations to keep their religion, culture, and language.

There is no need to resort to fantastic embellishment. It is the realization that humans, every single human ever are all far, far short of perfect. Every single human ever was, is, and will be full of faults, some are just better than others. It is breaking down idol worship. It is then understanding that you have to consider each in his own time. Humans are no better now than 2,500 years ago. If the ancients seem silly and backwards to us now it is only because we have the benefit of their experience and our circumstances are different. It is accepting and submitting to reality instead of wishing to substitute our own fantasy for reality.
Click to expand...
Thank you dear...very interesting...This is the first time I have ever heard this (just so you know)...

could you please give me some references on this topic? love to read more on it....

Thank you :)
 
Fole_Penalt

Fole_Penalt

IPL Player
#51
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
#51
Persian_Beauty said:
could you please give me some references on this topic? love to read more on it....

Thank you :)
Click to expand...
Sure:
I prefer to read the document itself rather than people's commentary or analysis about it, every single one of them being wildly biased, including those from the British Museum itself.

Here is one:

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/History/hakhamaneshian/Cyrus-the-great/cyrus_cylinder_complete.htm

Here is two:

http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon05.html
 
Persian_Beauty

Persian_Beauty

Bench Warmer
#52
Jun 24, 2005
1,442
0
#52
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