I have a hard time believing that Iranians knew of the names and whereabouts of 180 Pilots of a foreign Military... They must have had a lot of Iraqi help.
add to that the fact that these Pilots, like many other Sadam military men, have had enough enemies in their own country who would want to kill them. Kurds, Shias and even sunni Iraqis have suffered most disgusting atrocities by Sadam's armed men for decades on end.
I am thinking that the Iranians, although probably lent a hand, they just aren't good enough to master mind, plan and carry out such operation.
add to that the fact that these Pilots, like many other Sadam military men, have had enough enemies in their own country who would want to kill them. Kurds, Shias and even sunni Iraqis have suffered most disgusting atrocities by Sadam's armed men for decades on end.
I am thinking that the Iranians, although probably lent a hand, they just aren't good enough to master mind, plan and carry out such operation.
Do a search on "Iraqi Shia Death Squad", these all shia assassins were most active during 05 till 08 assassinating and blowing up any one who was remotely connected to 100Damn's regime and Baath party. Beside killing the key personnel (former Iraqi air force pilots surely fall under that category) the "Death Squad" was also casting mayhem on their families and relatives to a point almost all fled iraq and now living in Syria and mostly in Jordan under refugee status.
No matter what Wikileak reveals IRI had/has nothing to do with Iraqi Shia Death Squad, but that does not mean Iran did not support the assassins. Bear in mind there are many extremist militant groups in Iran who take order from no one and make their own decisions with plenty of money in the bag (IRGC any one?). Ansaar Hezbella, Quds Brigade, Islamic Jehaad and many other come to mind.
No matter what Wikileak reveals IRI had/has nothing to do with Iraqi Shia Death Squad, but that does not mean Iran did not support the assassins. Bear in mind there are many extremist militant groups in Iran who take order from no one and make their own decisions with plenty of money in the bag (IRGC any one?). Ansaar Hezbella, Quds Brigade, Islamic Jehaad and many other come to mind.
I also don’t believe Islamic shit, other than financial support, had anything to do with that. Once the sag-damn government was toppled, there was a lot of old score among eye-rackies (what their army did to Kurds and/or to the shit-ies in the south) to be settled. And these pilots must have been involved in bombing not only civilians but also their own citizens (reminds me of Sepah members).
In any case, the hell with all of them. In fact, I hope in the near future, Iranians can use something similar to Israeli’s Simon Wiesenthal model in the to hunt down Sepah members and their families.
In any case, the hell with all of them. In fact, I hope in the near future, Iranians can use something similar to Israeli’s Simon Wiesenthal model in the to hunt down Sepah members and their families.
Doost e aziz did you read the rest of my post ?
you got it all wrong with me aziz, I hate wars but had the unfortunate experience of witnessing the longest war of the century and it was terrible . I do mention the bravery of our armed forces now and again as a tribute to their bravery and sacrifice for their country , whatever their political view point.
Men fight men and armies fight armies ,not civilians .
I heard so many shocking stories and seen some with my own eyes . what they did to our compatriots when they invaded in Sep 1980 , you don't want to hear it and I dont want to mention it .
Iraq's coward air force would attack cities with no strategic target in mind , they flew at high altitude and high speed drop a few bombs over a large city and then it was a lottery who was going to get it . the first one in their war of cities campaign in 1983or 84 fell within half a kilometer of my house .
I don't know if you were around those days but we fought like men and they fought like cowards and that is a fact .
Personally I doubt that if IR was directly involved in this but I could care less .
you got it all wrong with me aziz, I hate wars but had the unfortunate experience of witnessing the longest war of the century and it was terrible . I do mention the bravery of our armed forces now and again as a tribute to their bravery and sacrifice for their country , whatever their political view point.
Men fight men and armies fight armies ,not civilians .
I heard so many shocking stories and seen some with my own eyes . what they did to our compatriots when they invaded in Sep 1980 , you don't want to hear it and I dont want to mention it .
Iraq's coward air force would attack cities with no strategic target in mind , they flew at high altitude and high speed drop a few bombs over a large city and then it was a lottery who was going to get it . the first one in their war of cities campaign in 1983or 84 fell within half a kilometer of my house .
I don't know if you were around those days but we fought like men and they fought like cowards and that is a fact .
Personally I doubt that if IR was directly involved in this but I could care less .
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Until one of them starts to lose. Toward the end of the war, both Basra and Baghdad were targets of Iranian Scud missiles. In fact, if we are after war criminals, the Iraqi air force comes near the bottom. Iranian cities were mostly targeted by missiles. The greatest atrocities occurred on the ground by foot soldiers.
Not true.
The missile attacks didn't start until the very last year of the war. Before that, we had the Lottery of Death Operations performed on purely civilian targets by the Iraqi air force.
The entire conduct of the Iraqi army from 1980 to 88, when winning or losing, was one war crime after another. Every single one of those cocksuckers from the petty foot soldier to the top ranking general could die in front of their families for all I care. Anyone who has a problem with that can go hug the nearest tree.
The missile attacks didn't start until the very last year of the war. Before that, we had the Lottery of Death Operations performed on purely civilian targets by the Iraqi air force.
The entire conduct of the Iraqi army from 1980 to 88, when winning or losing, was one war crime after another. Every single one of those cocksuckers from the petty foot soldier to the top ranking general could die in front of their families for all I care. Anyone who has a problem with that can go hug the nearest tree.
That is only true in Tehran's case. Iraq didn't have missiles that could reach Tehran until about a year or so before the war ended. But many of our cities near Iraq boarder were hit by missiles from the beginning of the War. Has everyone forgotten Dezful.. Hundreds of missiles landed on that tiny city over the course of the war..
Many people in Shahrestans used to say that they wished Tehran was hit by missiles from the beginning of the war because they think that the war would have ended much sooner if that were the case... as it turned out the war ended about a year after the first missiles hit Tehran.
Many people in Shahrestans used to say that they wished Tehran was hit by missiles from the beginning of the war because they think that the war would have ended much sooner if that were the case... as it turned out the war ended about a year after the first missiles hit Tehran.
Iraqi's may be good at somethings...As a military pilot ..they just got no talent ..and thank god for that...As far as IRI executing them..if true good for them..a useless pilot can at least be a military shaheed in his own crib. .it amazing how things changed..U.S. attacked Iraq.8 yrs later Iraqi military is most flaky thing out there and in big parts pretty much IRI 's Qods bitch..
So you support the death squad and genocide of almost 100K-200k people without any sort of court or ... who used to be in the Iraqi army and are civilian now !! So in someways, you support some of Mehdi's Army's activiy in the recent years. I have Iraqi friends here in Canada whose Dad used to be in Army and Iraqi co-worker who used to be in army as well, should I be ok with their murder infront of their families for what happend 15-20 years ago?
Now, I know this is Not going to be a popular question here but how much do we really know about the activity of our own air force during the war? Did we always played by the rules and never bombed the civilian areas ?
How about the activity of our Sepah in the front lines. Lets be honest, Sepah in most part is the same Sepah as we see these days. If they were capable of Raping and torturing their own hamvatans in early 60s then how did they treated Iraqs ?
War is a dirty thing and should be avoided with all means that are possible and the first step forward is to stop the hate and move on to build a better future.
Now, I know this is Not going to be a popular question here but how much do we really know about the activity of our own air force during the war? Did we always played by the rules and never bombed the civilian areas ?
How about the activity of our Sepah in the front lines. Lets be honest, Sepah in most part is the same Sepah as we see these days. If they were capable of Raping and torturing their own hamvatans in early 60s then how did they treated Iraqs ?
War is a dirty thing and should be avoided with all means that are possible and the first step forward is to stop the hate and move on to build a better future.
Any red blooded iranian who saw Khoramshahr..Abadan..before war and after ( in my case about 4 1/2 yrs after) would want Iraq be destroyed once and for all...
That War is a terrible thing..I don't think anybody disagrees...but in this case Iraqis started and whatever we did to them is ok with me...
Bad Karma from attacking Iran finally did catch up with Iraq..and right now its in a state.that.. I...even feel sorry for them.
That War is a terrible thing..I don't think anybody disagrees...but in this case Iraqis started and whatever we did to them is ok with me...
Bad Karma from attacking Iran finally did catch up with Iraq..and right now its in a state.that.. I...even feel sorry for them.
I said I couldn't care less if they die. And I stand by it. The air raids were just ONE of their atrocities. I went to school with someone from Khorramshahr whose family fled to Tehran after the invasion. He told me Iraqi soldiers were raping girls as young as SIX.
I have as much sympathy for Saddam's animals as I do for the Basij or Taleban. If they end up dead at the hands of "Sepah e Mehdi" or other roaches like themselves, I for one won't be shedding a tear. You're welcome to feel differently.
I have as much sympathy for Saddam's animals as I do for the Basij or Taleban. If they end up dead at the hands of "Sepah e Mehdi" or other roaches like themselves, I for one won't be shedding a tear. You're welcome to feel differently.
If you are referring to me with this post, Please provide a proof that I said we should go after " Niroye Entezami's family " and not even Basij 
which in both cases I don't think I ever claimed that we should go after their family and... especially after the regime change and when these people become civilians and ....
Thank you
which in both cases I don't think I ever claimed that we should go after their family and... especially after the regime change and when these people become civilians and ....Thank you
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I guess we have to agree to disagree on this which is one of the very few times that I disagreed with you since I find your post well balanced and quite informative.
I am not denying the crimes that happened in the war and I do belive many high ranking officials who ordered these crimes should be punished and brought to justice.
Same goes with ordinery soldiers who have raped and killed civilians or POWs. They also need to be brought to justice.
However, I have a problem with Random killing of every Iraqi who was involved in the war. I do not think they all committed war crimes and some of them actually decided to defend their own country when Khomeyni passed on the peace deal on the early days and make us an aggressor too ( I know we had disscussion on what khomeyni did and what was the cost to Iranians).
I personally have problem with killling people based on the action of others. As I said earlier, We had Sepah and Basij involved during the war and we know many of these guys were brave souls who were defending Iran and Iranian honors. At the same time, we all know that some of these guys were dirty animals who cared less about human life and were even involved in Rape and torture of their own Hamvatans !!
Now, should I judge all Iranian forces based on the action of these people and condemn them to death ?
My answer is NO. The Blind support of killing and genocide of people without giving them the due process opens the flood doors for hanous crimes and can hurt some innocent people.
But at the end, you are 100% correct. I am ok with you feeling that way and I just have to disagree with it.
I am not denying the crimes that happened in the war and I do belive many high ranking officials who ordered these crimes should be punished and brought to justice.
Same goes with ordinery soldiers who have raped and killed civilians or POWs. They also need to be brought to justice.
However, I have a problem with Random killing of every Iraqi who was involved in the war. I do not think they all committed war crimes and some of them actually decided to defend their own country when Khomeyni passed on the peace deal on the early days and make us an aggressor too ( I know we had disscussion on what khomeyni did and what was the cost to Iranians).
I personally have problem with killling people based on the action of others. As I said earlier, We had Sepah and Basij involved during the war and we know many of these guys were brave souls who were defending Iran and Iranian honors. At the same time, we all know that some of these guys were dirty animals who cared less about human life and were even involved in Rape and torture of their own Hamvatans !!
Now, should I judge all Iranian forces based on the action of these people and condemn them to death ?
My answer is NO. The Blind support of killing and genocide of people without giving them the due process opens the flood doors for hanous crimes and can hurt some innocent people.
But at the end, you are 100% correct. I am ok with you feeling that way and I just have to disagree with it
.
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there is no story of Iranian forces ever doing anything nasty to any Iraqi civilians ,even their POWs were treated well , thousands of them were living yards from my house on Davoudieh hills .
It is in the Iranian nature to never kick a man when he is down , we are by nature a kind and caring nation , specially when we are standing and they are down . but we are like cats when we have our back to the wall , we can fight and we can fight well , not like cowards but like Lions .
we never used chemical weapons even if we lost grounds and had to retreat .
I never forget watching the British TV report of Iranian F4s over Baghdad ,flying low and fast twisting and turning looking for their targets , all through out the war they did their best not to harm civilians .
I have also seen the Iraqi air force over Tehran flying at 80000 feet and very fast just unloading his bombs over the city , that's how brave they were .
on the other hand the Iraqis continuously took to nasty against civilians they came across and POWs.
Their atrocities were not isolated incidents but normal practice , only animals are capable of raping a 6 year old girl , come to think of it even animals don't do that .
I think it is unfair to compare the sepahis and Basijis who fought these monsters and kicked them out with those who committed crimes against our hamvatans last year
It is in the Iranian nature to never kick a man when he is down , we are by nature a kind and caring nation , specially when we are standing and they are down . but we are like cats when we have our back to the wall , we can fight and we can fight well , not like cowards but like Lions .
we never used chemical weapons even if we lost grounds and had to retreat .
I never forget watching the British TV report of Iranian F4s over Baghdad ,flying low and fast twisting and turning looking for their targets , all through out the war they did their best not to harm civilians .
I have also seen the Iraqi air force over Tehran flying at 80000 feet and very fast just unloading his bombs over the city , that's how brave they were .
on the other hand the Iraqis continuously took to nasty against civilians they came across and POWs.
Their atrocities were not isolated incidents but normal practice , only animals are capable of raping a 6 year old girl , come to think of it even animals don't do that .
I think it is unfair to compare the sepahis and Basijis who fought these monsters and kicked them out with those who committed crimes against our hamvatans last year