This is the logic Tajrish jaan: Someone loves orange, oranges have bitter seeds, therefore that someone loves bitter seeds! And if you and I don't understand that logic (or lack thereof) we're idiots! :-ohno:
Where did you see that Esi jaan? This whole thing started because Russia would not give aid to Ukraine without abandoning the EU agreement and until 2 days ago they were telling Yanukovych to kill the protesters or they would not disburse the next tranche of the aid. The Russians also did not sign the agreement that was reached between Yanukovych and the opposition. It would be very ironic, to say the least, if they suddenly had a change of heart.
I would also love to see a source for that. Turkey was en route to become an EU state until a few months ago and until Erdogan poured some cold water on it for obvious reasons. I don't recall one of the conditions of the EU agreement being that Turkey had to become less Muslim!
Where did you see that Esi jaan? This whole thing started because Russia would not give aid to Ukraine without abandoning the EU agreement and until 2 days ago they were telling Yanukovych to kill the protesters or they would not disburse the next tranche of the aid. The Russians also did not sign the agreement that was reached between Yanukovych and the opposition. It would be very ironic, to say the least, if they suddenly had a change of heart.
I would also love to see a source for that. Turkey was en route to become an EU state until a few months ago and until Erdogan poured some cold water on it for obvious reasons. I don't recall one of the conditions of the EU agreement being that Turkey had to become less Muslim!
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Documents at Ukraine Leader's Home Detail Spending
As thousands of Ukrainians continued to tour Yanukovych's opulent estate outside of Kiev on Sunday, evidence was uncovered of lavish spending in an economy that is teetering on the verge of default.
One was a receipt for $12 million in cash. Another invoice was for a payment of $10 million. Some 80,000 euros (about $110,000) went for curtains in a room called the "knight's hall." Another 1.1 million euros (about $1.5 million) was spent on plants. Wooden decor for a handful of rooms cost $2.3 million. Notably, $115,000 was spent for a statue of a "running boar," possibly intended for Yanukovych, who is an avid hunter.
As thousands of Ukrainians continued to tour Yanukovych's opulent estate outside of Kiev on Sunday, evidence was uncovered of lavish spending in an economy that is teetering on the verge of default.
One was a receipt for $12 million in cash. Another invoice was for a payment of $10 million. Some 80,000 euros (about $110,000) went for curtains in a room called the "knight's hall." Another 1.1 million euros (about $1.5 million) was spent on plants. Wooden decor for a handful of rooms cost $2.3 million. Notably, $115,000 was spent for a statue of a "running boar," possibly intended for Yanukovych, who is an avid hunter.
I don't think that is true. The Russian may have wished protesters to be killed but they never said that.
They simply said the Aid Package won't arrive until the country is in enjoying Stability, law and order. I don't think their position was illogical since they were not gone throw 15 billion dollars simply away.
You want a Source for France and Germany repeatedly delaying Turkey's bid??
It has been well known that many in Europe are worried about Europe Skin Tone becoming a bit darker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union#2000s
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/world/11621541.asp
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/130224/majority-germans-opposed-turkey-eu-entry-poll
You should have just followed the new back then.
Of course they never said you are too Muslim.
But It is not very had to read between the lines that Germany and France did not want another large country that would disturb their domination of Europe which incidently happened to be Muslim.
It is like Texas politics where conservatives claim I will protect our borders. Or When They say I will keep American American.
You have to read between the lines and hear the dog whistles toward racist constituents.
They simply said the Aid Package won't arrive until the country is in enjoying Stability, law and order. I don't think their position was illogical since they were not gone throw 15 billion dollars simply away.
You want a Source for France and Germany repeatedly delaying Turkey's bid??
It has been well known that many in Europe are worried about Europe Skin Tone becoming a bit darker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union#2000s
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/world/11621541.asp
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/130224/majority-germans-opposed-turkey-eu-entry-poll
You should have just followed the new back then.
Of course they never said you are too Muslim.
But It is not very had to read between the lines that Germany and France did not want another large country that would disturb their domination of Europe which incidently happened to be Muslim.
It is like Texas politics where conservatives claim I will protect our borders. Or When They say I will keep American American.
You have to read between the lines and hear the dog whistles toward racist constituents.
The real danger is if Ukraine Eventually does split in two countries. the larger western part has no access to the ports. Hopefully they will see value to sticking to each other as a country.
but that far only a hundred of so people have been killed. When you put in perspective the situation did not become as bad as it could really get.
but that far only a hundred of so people have been killed. When you put in perspective the situation did not become as bad as it could really get.
You didn't answer my question Esi jaan: where did the Russians say "why should Ukraine choose? why can it not be part of both."
As far as wanting a crackdown on protesters, that was both the perception on the streets and easily deduced from comments from Russian authorities from my earlier post in this thread. You don't have to do much reading between the lines on this one: http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...at-russia-tells-cash-starved-kiev_912876.html
No, I asked for a source showing that "France, Germany and others Rejected Turkey EU bid on the basis that it was too large and too Muslim to join Europe."
You don't need to read between the lines at all on this one my friend. All you have to do is to read the actual lines in the links you provided! They clearly state that no country rejected or blocked Turkey's EU bid and they also clearly give the reasons as to why some EU members were hesitant about full membership.
The west is not out to get Muslims or Mexicans - they just don't want extremists and gangs running their countries like they run Mexico and some Muslim countries. You live in the west : do you want the US to turn into Mexico or Afghanistan and if you don't, does that make you racist?!
As far as wanting a crackdown on protesters, that was both the perception on the streets and easily deduced from comments from Russian authorities from my earlier post in this thread. You don't have to do much reading between the lines on this one: http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...at-russia-tells-cash-starved-kiev_912876.html
No, I asked for a source showing that "France, Germany and others Rejected Turkey EU bid on the basis that it was too large and too Muslim to join Europe."
You don't need to read between the lines at all on this one my friend. All you have to do is to read the actual lines in the links you provided! They clearly state that no country rejected or blocked Turkey's EU bid and they also clearly give the reasons as to why some EU members were hesitant about full membership.
The west is not out to get Muslims or Mexicans - they just don't want extremists and gangs running their countries like they run Mexico and some Muslim countries. You live in the west : do you want the US to turn into Mexico or Afghanistan and if you don't, does that make you racist?!
I am not sure they are out to get Mexicans or "Muslims" (People who look brown).
But There are significant elements who definitely prefer white immigration over Brown Folks.
In The U.S if you listen to Conservative Talk Radio. It is full of sentiments such as keep Mexcian immigration to a minimum because they are breaking the "fabric" of America. America was founded on Judeo Christian values. We do not want to be ruled by Sharia Law.
Of course in modern day you are not gone see Angela Merkel come out and say half of my Party is concerned about Predominant Muslim Country to join the EU.
What do you think Sarkozi means by They are not European?
[video=youtube;rBoBTdh9oa4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBoBTdh9oa4[/video]
But There are significant elements who definitely prefer white immigration over Brown Folks.
In The U.S if you listen to Conservative Talk Radio. It is full of sentiments such as keep Mexcian immigration to a minimum because they are breaking the "fabric" of America. America was founded on Judeo Christian values. We do not want to be ruled by Sharia Law.
Of course in modern day you are not gone see Angela Merkel come out and say half of my Party is concerned about Predominant Muslim Country to join the EU.
What do you think Sarkozi means by They are not European?
[video=youtube;rBoBTdh9oa4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBoBTdh9oa4[/video]
Esi joon, judging by the fact that you still have not provided me a source for the following:
1 - Russian meanwhile say Why should Ukraine Choose? why can it not be part of both.
2 - But back in 2004 France, Germany and others Rejected Turkey EU bid on the basis that it was too large and too Muslim to join Europe.
We're going to have to just scratch those statements from the discussion!
Now, as far as this last clip, it looks like you didn't watch the clip, the same way you didn't read the links you posted. 1st of all he doesn't say they're not Europeans at the beginning of the interview - he says they are not in Europe. Then he goes on to explain exactly what that means for people like you who read and hear things that aren't there: Turkey is NOT in Europe, it is in Asia minor and he is right. In other words he clearly makes this an issue of geography, not ethnicity. He goes on to say that he wants countries in Europe to be part of the union first (and there are many of those) and again clearly says it's NOT because they're Muslim, when forced later in the interview. It's like trying to include Columbia in NAFTA. So, I have no idea how you took out of this interview what you did.
1 - Russian meanwhile say Why should Ukraine Choose? why can it not be part of both.
2 - But back in 2004 France, Germany and others Rejected Turkey EU bid on the basis that it was too large and too Muslim to join Europe.
We're going to have to just scratch those statements from the discussion!
Now, as far as this last clip, it looks like you didn't watch the clip, the same way you didn't read the links you posted. 1st of all he doesn't say they're not Europeans at the beginning of the interview - he says they are not in Europe. Then he goes on to explain exactly what that means for people like you who read and hear things that aren't there: Turkey is NOT in Europe, it is in Asia minor and he is right. In other words he clearly makes this an issue of geography, not ethnicity. He goes on to say that he wants countries in Europe to be part of the union first (and there are many of those) and again clearly says it's NOT because they're Muslim, when forced later in the interview. It's like trying to include Columbia in NAFTA. So, I have no idea how you took out of this interview what you did.
haven't read most of the thread but a few comments made me think of this (re prefering christian immigrants):
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-h...d-conservatives-get-lost-conservative-paradis
[video]http://www.mrctv.org/videos/daily-show-tells-disgruntled-conservatives-get-lost-conservative-paradise-russia[/video]
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-h...d-conservatives-get-lost-conservative-paradis
[video]http://www.mrctv.org/videos/daily-show-tells-disgruntled-conservatives-get-lost-conservative-paradise-russia[/video]
Bi Honar jan you are an Honest man. But I am glad you never entered politics as your professional career.
if you can not hear the dog whistling from European politicians , I really can not help you.
It takes years of practice to be able to detect coded messages.
As for the russian Source. I do not have a specific one. I was listening to CNN, BBC and NPR on the subject matter Russian Spokes people basically said why can't Ukraine Enjoy membership in both unions.
That sort of Makes Sense because not EU countries have the same status and they have different trade partnerships with various countries.
but do I have Kremlin press release on the issue ? no I don't .
if you can not hear the dog whistling from European politicians , I really can not help you.
It takes years of practice to be able to detect coded messages.
As for the russian Source. I do not have a specific one. I was listening to CNN, BBC and NPR on the subject matter Russian Spokes people basically said why can't Ukraine Enjoy membership in both unions.
That sort of Makes Sense because not EU countries have the same status and they have different trade partnerships with various countries.
but do I have Kremlin press release on the issue ? no I don't .
LOL. Well, I grew up in the west and here the emphasis is on comprehension not cryptography, whether you're in politics or writing your GMAT or LSAT. In fact, the whole art of politics is to be able to express yourself in a way that can not be interpreted by the reader or listener other than how it was intended - and for the statement to be defensible if it is interpreted in a different way. That's why you can challenge 95% of my statements here on ISP and I will make you go back to the statement to see that you misunderstood it. On the other hand, you just made two statements and got caught with your pants down! 
I've seen you struggle with the difference between facts and opinions. Facts are not subjective. Germany and France did NOT reject Turkey'd bid to join the EU - they simply delayed it. And the reasons for that delay were NOT that Turkey was too big or too Muslim - that's just your opinion. The facts are that Turkey's bid had a lot of issues, including much needed reforms, the issue of Cyprus and border controls. And the FACT that Turkey was still on track for EU membership early in 2013 and that it was NOT any smaller or less Muslim than it was in 2005 or 2006, invalidates your OPINION that the original delays had anything to do with being too big or too Muslim. It's really not that complicated.
I've seen you struggle with the difference between facts and opinions. Facts are not subjective. Germany and France did NOT reject Turkey'd bid to join the EU - they simply delayed it. And the reasons for that delay were NOT that Turkey was too big or too Muslim - that's just your opinion. The facts are that Turkey's bid had a lot of issues, including much needed reforms, the issue of Cyprus and border controls. And the FACT that Turkey was still on track for EU membership early in 2013 and that it was NOT any smaller or less Muslim than it was in 2005 or 2006, invalidates your OPINION that the original delays had anything to do with being too big or too Muslim. It's really not that complicated.
Two important developments today:
1 - Pro-Russian, heavily armed men have taken over the regional parliament building in Crimea and raised the Russian flag (imagine Azaris or Kurds taking over government buildings and raising Kurdistan or Azerbaijan flags in Iran!)
2 - There are allegations from the ex finance minister that Ynukovich stole $37-75 billion USD (billion, not million) from the state treasury.
Ukraine warns Russia after gunmen seize Crimea parliament
Russians are still doing their 1920's tricks...
1 - Pro-Russian, heavily armed men have taken over the regional parliament building in Crimea and raised the Russian flag (imagine Azaris or Kurds taking over government buildings and raising Kurdistan or Azerbaijan flags in Iran!)
2 - There are allegations from the ex finance minister that Ynukovich stole $37-75 billion USD (billion, not million) from the state treasury.
Ukraine warns Russia after gunmen seize Crimea parliament
Russians are still doing their 1920's tricks...