An agreement has been reached with Iran on its nuclear program.

May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#61
رهبر جام زهر را نوشيد؟ كدام جام كدام زهر؟




What poison did Khameni drink exactly?
Iran has promised to destroy all 20% enriched Uronuim sofar. That's the poison.
بالاخره در ژنو توافق حاصل شد! امیدواریم آینده بهتری برای همگی در راه باشد. در فاز اول (به مدت ۶ ماه) این قرارداد، ایران غنی سازی بالای ۵٪ را متوقف خواهد کرد. ایران ذخیره اورانیوم غنی شده ۲۰٪ را نابود خواهد کرد. ایران دیگر سانتریفیوژ های جدید نصب نخواهد کرد. ساخت تاسیسات اتمی اراک متوقف خواهد شد. تاسیسات جدیدی برای غنی سازی احداث نخواهد شد. بازرسان آژانس، بازرسی های بیشتری خواهند کرد. تحریم های موجود نفتی، بانکی و مالی به قوه خود باقی خواهند ماند. لیست تحریم افراد و مسئولین جمهوری اسلامی همچنان ادامه خواهد داشت. در مقابل، تحریم های جدیدی وضع نخواهد شد. تسهیلات ویژه بانکی در زمینه های کشاورزی، غذایی ، دارویی، دانشجویی و کمک های انسانی که در تحریم ها نبودند، افزایش خواهند یافت. نظر شما درباره این قرارداد چیست؟ چه انتظاراتی در باره بهبود وضع مردم پس از این قرارداد دارید؟ امیدواریم آینده بهتری برای همگی در راه باشد
 
Jun 18, 2005
10,889
5
#62
• stop enriching uranium above 5%, reactor-grade, and dilute its stock of 20%-enriched uranium or convert it to oxide, which makes it harder to enrich further. The medium-enriched uranium, in its hexafluoride gas form, is relatively easy to turn into weapons-grade material, so it is a major proliferation concern.

• not to increase its stockpile of low-enrichment uranium.

• freeze its enrichment capacity by not installing any more centrifuges, leaving more than half of its existing 16,000 centrifuges inoperable.

• not to fuel or to commission the heavy-water reactor it is building in Arak or build a reprocessing plant that could produce plutonium from the spent fuel.

• accept more intrusive nuclear inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency, including daily visits to some facilities.

Bottom line is sanctions worked and Khamenei tapped out.
 

feyenoord

Bench Warmer
Aug 23, 2005
1,706
0
#63
رهبر جام زهر را نوشيد؟ كدام جام كدام زهر؟


I guess some people in order to keep themselves a little happy want to pretend that this was a defeat for Khamenei. They certainly can't say this was a defeat for Rohani and his team and they can't say this was a defeat for Rafsanjani and his team and they can't say this was a bad thing for the regime or Iranians in general so they've got to find some silver lining and pretend that this must've really hurt Khamenei (as though Khamenei is somehow separate and different from the rest of the regime and Rohani whom he personally has endorsed). LOL


به قول معروف
قمار باز اگه نگه به تخمم كه دلش ميتركه


What poison did Khameni drink exactly? He got one of the guys he trusted elected as president. He then set the limits and terms for the Iranian negotiators and got the 5+1 to accept his terms two days after he publicly called Israeli leaders "subhumans" and "rabid dogs" and American threat of war as laughable. And now some people here say he was forced to drink the cup of poison because he has agreed to downgrade half of the 20% enriched uranium stockpile which wasn't even enough for a single nuclear bomb to begin with and has agreed not do weapons grade plutonium in Arak heavy water plant which isn't even close to being complete yet. Yeh, I guess Khamenei really got fucked in this deal.

There was a time when all the focus was on the IR regime as a whole. Now some people have been forced to just talk about the Rahbar as individual and forget about the rest of the regime!
Nice tried!

We all know khamenei's preference was "enghelabigari" all alonf. He said just a while back that he is not a diplomat, he is enghelabi. This explains his weak spot for Jalili, who he probably voted for as well in the election.

However, what shows your analysis is false is the fact that he screwed the country for 8 years, brought it on the edge of war and economic sanctions. But the people's election of Rohani was a clear blow to his policies and his enghelbaigari mentality.

Ideology lost and pragmatism won in this case.

Hala be khodet delkhoshi bede wali fargh nemikone. But there was a reason why hardliners were so afraid of a deal. And that is that got a ideologically deligtimized.
 
May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#64
A a-bomb or two is not a strategic military threat to the US, to Israel definitely is. IRI might have produced something but really they signed the deal because the bowed under sancions. They probably got enough of the sanctions off, a fair option in Syria, and security garauntees. I think they will also use the opportunity now to get closer to America using their other cards in Iraq and Afghanstan.
It Hurts. Much more than Iraq did against US. Sanctions has hurt Sepah which is what I to oghab. Coming closer to US Means stronger US in ME. But Khamenei is not fool. He should have hidden some Cards.
 

ashtar

National Team Player
Aug 17, 2003
5,448
19
#65
Iran has promised to destroy all 20% enriched Uronuim sofar. That's the poison.
1st, of all Iran has not agreed to destroy anything.

2nd, Iran is only obligated to dilute half of it's 20% enriched Uranium down to 5% level and keep the other half for Tehran's reactor. Here is what the English text of the agreement says:

"The first step would be time-bound, with a duration of 6 months, and renewable by mutual consent, during which all parties will work to maintain a constructive atmosphere for negotiations in good faith.
Iran would undertake the following voluntary measures:
• From the existing uranium enriched to 20%, retain half as working stock of 20% oxide for fabrication of fuel for the TRR. Dilute the remaining 20% UF6 to no more than 5%. No reconversion line.
• Iran announces that it will not enrich uranium over 5% for the duration of the 6 months.
• Iran announces that it will not make any further advances of its activities at the Natanz Fuel Enrichment Plant , Fordow , or the Arak reactor , designated by the IAEA as IR-40.
• Beginning when the line for conversion of UF6 enriched up to 5% to UO2 is ready, Iran has decided to convert to oxide UF6 newly enriched up to 5% during the 6 month period, as provided in the operational schedule of the conversion plant declared to the IAEA.
• No new locations for the enrichment.
• Iran will continue its safeguarded R&D practices, including its current enrichment R&D practices, which are not designed for accumulation of the enriched uranium.
• No reprocessing or construction of a facility capable of reprocessing.
• Enhanced monitoring:"

3rd and lastly, who cares if Iran were to dilute all the 20% enriched Uranium down to 5%? Someone who was planning to build a bomb may care but Khamenei has repeatedly issued "Fatwa" that nuclear weapons are "haram" and Iran only produced the 20% after West refused to sell it the fuel for Tehran reactor.
 
May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#66
3rd and lastly, who cares if Iran were to dilute all the 20% enriched Uranium down to 5%? Someone who was planning to build a bomb may care but Khamenei has repeatedly issued "Fatwa" that nuclear weapons are "haram" and Iran only produced the 20% after West refused to sell it the fuel for Tehran reactor.
This could be Applied to Ghomarbaze nage be tokhmam degh mikone. Has Khamenei stopped doing haram Things?
 

feyenoord

Bench Warmer
Aug 23, 2005
1,706
0
#67
http://www.akhbar-rooz.com/news.jsp?essayId=56757

بالاخره جمهوری اسلامی پس از کشاندن ملت و کشور به مرز جنگ و ورشکستگی اقتصادی، و حد اکثر استفاده از سیاست***های تنش زای خارجی*** با هدف انحراف افکار عمومی*** از کمبودها و سرکوبهای داخلی***,... با در آوردن خرگوش اعتدال روحانی و ظریف از عمامه خویش، اولین عقبگرد رسمی*** از موضع***های گذشته خود را انجام داد. رژیم بلاخره قرار دادی را که می***توانست ۱۵ سال پیش تصویب کند ، پس از ماجرا جویی***ها و بی***کفایتی***ها از زور سقوط امضا کرد. آن*** هم در کشوری که بزرگترین ذخایر گاز جهان را دارد و آن*** هم پس از گنده گویی***هایی*** که به ملت و کشور ایران میلیاردها ضرر زد و باعث قویتر شدن باندهای قاچاق مافیایی رژیم و سپاه شد.

اما با این توافق، نه تنها رژیم ولایت فقیه خود را از سقوط اقتصادی نجات داد، بلکه توانست دولت***های غربی را از ادامه سیاستهای تغییر رژیم منصرف کند. البته آمریکا در دوران بوش و حتی قبل از آن با امید به اپوزیسیون ایران سیاست***هایی*** در جهت تغییر رژیم در نظر گرفت اما اپوزیسیون با انتظارت بیش از حد از دیگران و نه از خود، هیچ گاه نتوانست آلترناتیوی همبسته و متشکل به ملت ایران و جهانیان ارائه دهد.

در این میان ایرانیان داخل کشور که زیر بار تحریم***های اقتصادی، فساد و برنامه***های شکست خورده کمرشان خم شده بود، روزنه اقتصادی کاهش تحریم***ها را به مانند ریاست جمهوری روحانی به فال نیک*** گرفتند.

این جشن شادی رژیم+اصلاح***طلبان از یک سو و ۵+۱ از سوی دیگر، با مخالفت و عصبانیت بعضی*** دیگران مواجه بود:

۱- دولت اسرائیل که به ملایان اعتمادی ندارد و از طرفی*** هم تنش سیاسی میان رژیم و غرب بنفعش می***باشد.

۲- همسایگان ایران که منزوی بودن ایران، برایشان استفاده سیاسی و اقتصادی بسیاری داشته است.

۳- بخشی از اپوزیسیون رژیم که امیدش به سرنگونی اقتصادی رژیم از طریق تحریم***ها بوده است . اپوزیسیونی که راه چاره کم عملی***، بی*** برنامگی و تفرقه خود را در امید به دخالت مستقیم و غیر مستقیم دولت***های خارج مییابد.

البته تحریم***های اقتصادی در صورتی*** می***توانست به تغییر رژیم بیانجامد که دولت***های غربی مانند تحریم***های آفریقای جنوبی آن را به رعایت حقوق بشر نیز نسبت می***دادند, اپوزیسیون همبسته و متشکل ، همزمان رهبری اعتصابات سراسری گسترده در ایران را به عهده می***گرفت و رژیم به سیاستهای قدیم خود ادامه میداد و از مواضع اتمی*** خود عقب نشینی نمیکرد, ولی*** هیچ یک از این شرایط عملی*** نشد.
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
#68
Let's keep in mind this is not a permanent agreement.
furthermore U.S Midterm elections are coming and this guartnees that Obama Administration can show less flexibility in the future.
Suadis and Israelis will make sure this Agreement is sufficiently sabotaged.
Hardliners in Iran will do their part to weaken Roohani Administration's Hand.

so in all the future still looks rather bleak, it is just not as hopeless as it was before.
 
May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#69
Let's keep in mind this is not a permanent agreement.
furthermore U.S Midterm elections are coming and this guartnees that Obama Administration can show less flexibility in the future.
Suadis and Israelis will make sure this Agreement is sufficiently sabotaged.
Hardliners in Iran will do their part to weaken Roohani Administration's Hand.

so in all the future still looks rather bleak, it is just not as hopeless as it was before.
It could even be planned to create fight inside Iran's system. American administrations know that this will not be accepted with open chest among conservatives. It may even lead to a coup.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#71
3rd and lastly, who cares if Iran were to dilute all the 20% enriched Uranium down to 5%? Someone who was planning to build a bomb may care but Khamenei has repeatedly issued "Fatwa" that nuclear weapons are "haram" and Iran only produced the 20% after West refused to sell it the fuel for Tehran reactor.
You may have been still in diapers then but I remember the "War of Cities" when Khomeini repeatedly used to say that it is "haram" to bomb civilians. In fact it is against teaching of Islam all together, yeah, right. As soon as their missiles got the range, Basra and Baghdad became daily targets of random missile attacks.
 

IEI

Administrator
Staff member
Nov 10, 2002
14,508
3,342
#72
After money flows to Iran economy and the economy improves (sepah's economy), Iran will break all these agreement and continue its path ...
Iran's ultimate goal is to be the power in middle east and they need atomic bomb to achieve this goal ...
For few years, there will be less tension but after that everything goes back to what it supposed to be ...
Iran will use this opprotunity to make more wars and tension to reduce the foccus on itself ...
 

Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
#74
Israeli Officials Knew White House Was Holding Secret Talks With Iran

CAIRO — Israeli officials knew they were being kept in the dark as the U.S. conducted secret talks with Iran, and the knowledge that the White House was “going behind Israel’s back” was one of the key sources of tension between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and President Barack Obama, according to a senior Israeli minister and other Israeli officials.

“We did not know from the beginning, but we knew, we had intelligence that these meetings were happening,” said the Israeli minister, who spoke to BuzzFeed by phone from his Jerusalem office. He said that a “friend in the Gulf” shared intelligence with Israel that the meetings were taking place, and urged Israel to find out more. “I would like to say we knew the content of the talks, but we didn’t. What we knew was that the U.S. was choosing not to tell us about them and that was very worrying.”

That “friend,” one foreign ministry official said, was Saudi Arabia, which along with Israel has most strongly objected to the nuclear deal reached between Iran and the West over the weekend.

Al Monitor and the Associated Press reported late Saturday that a secret channel of direct talks between the White House and Iran had existed since March 2013.

Senior Israeli cabinet minister Silvan Shalom was asked about the secret talks on Israel’s national radio Sunday, and appeared to confirm that Israel had found out about the talks through its own means. When asked what Israel knew and when, Shalom answered: “It is not important whether or not we were informed. What is important is if we knew, and we did know.”

One Israeli lawmaker from Netanyahu’s party said that Israel’s leadership was “furious … we felt like we were being stabbed in the back.”

“There was never a great love or warmth between Obama and Netanyahu but after we confirmed that they were seeking to hide talks with Iran from us there was distrust and suspicion in the relationship,” said the lawmaker.
U.S. officials told AP that the discussions were kept hidden even from the U.S.’s closest friends, including its negotiating partners and Israel, until two months ago, and that may explain how the nuclear accord appeared to come together so quickly after years of stalemate and fierce hostility between Iran and the West.

Omani officials confirmed to BuzzFeed that at least one of the meetings between U.S. and Iranian officials happened in Oman. Oman’s Sultan Qaboos was also a key player in helping President Obama ferry a letter to Iranian officials earlier this year.

Obama only decided to inform Netanyahu of the talks when the two met in the White House on Sept. 30, and on that occasion only briefed him on two of the talks held.

Following that meeting, both Obama and Netanyahu made a brief statement to reporters, but refused to take questions.

Netanyahu said at the time that while he appreciated Obama’s diplomacy on Iran, he still felt that a credible military threat needed to remain on the table.

“Iran is committed to Israel’s destruction. So for Israel, the ultimate test of a future agreement with Iran is whether or not Iran dismantles its military nuclear program. We have a saying in Hebrew, we call it mivchan hatotza’a — you would say it in English, what’s the bottom line? And the bottom line, again, is that Iran fully dismantles its military nuclear program,” said Netanyahu. “I also believe that if diplomacy is to work, those pressures must be kept in place. And I think that they should not be lessened until there is verifiable success. And, in fact, it is Israel’s firm belief that if Iran continues to advance its nuclear program during negotiations, the sanctions should be strengthened. It’s the combination, I believe, that has guided your policy and our policy so far, that is good credible military threat and strong sanctions I think is still the only formula that can get a peaceful resolution of this problem.”

An aide in the prime minister’s office told BuzzFeed that Netanyahu’s comments that day sent a careful message to Obama, and that he was already concerned that a deal was in the works that Israel would object to.
 

Zob Ahan

Elite Member
Feb 4, 2005
17,481
2,233
#76
Its not what the deal really is it is how it is perceived by the people on the street. For the most part most people see this deal as a defeat but are thankful to Zarif for what he has done. This is basically the same deal that Larikani & Solana agreed to but AN & KH opposed & the rest is history. 8 years of misery.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#77
Celebrations from Agreement
That's what I heard today too. Not celebration as much but a sense of relief. You can read this every which way. Merely signing a deal with the Great Satan is a big blow to IR hierarchy regardless of its content. Their moto has always been that you can't trust America so what is the point. Now they have to simultaneously celebrate it and condemn it. I think the people will feel a bit emboldened as IR has lost a major talking point. All this is speculation of course.
 
May 9, 2004
15,168
179
#78
I'm guessing asking you for a source for all this will be a futile attempt and get the usual Googool it yourself response?! ;)
.
البته به نظر من خود جنابعالی باید اخبار را پیگیری می کردید ولی
بخاطر اینکه جنابعالی در بحث هایتان خیلی مودبانه برخورد می کنید به همین خاطر این مصدر بی بی سی را برای شما می زنم

http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/iran/2013/11/131124_em-iran-nuclear-deal-geneva.shtml
 
Feb 24, 2012
308
0
#79
I'm guessing asking you for a source for all this will be a futile attempt and get the usual Googool it yourself response?! ;)
That reminds me of something my Polish friend (with a heavy Polish accent!) once said, when we were standing in his lab: "You need Googles for this, to protect eyes"
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#80
Its not what the deal really is it is how it is perceived by the people on the street. For the most part most people see this deal as a defeat but are thankful to Zarif for what he has done. This is basically the same deal that Larikani & Solana agreed to but AN & KH opposed & the rest is history. 8 years of misery.
They were throwing Hamas and Hezbollah under the bus with the very 1st deal. I've been wondering if those discussions played into any of the negotiations. Ultimately, I don't think Obama will be able to sell this deal to congress and allies in the region without some type of a grand bargain that will keep Iran's expansionist policies at bay. This may be a great PR stunt for Obama, but marred with serious risks and backlash everywhere - the ultimate prize for him should be an Israeli-Palestinian peace accord. Otherwise, the biggest loser in all of this will be the Democrats and we are witnessing the birth of another Reagan! ;)
 
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