NO If you watch the video people on board are using stick to beat Israelis with. No one is using deadly weapon like guns ...
If they had guns they would use that against Israeli soldiers.
My impression is that people have been afraid of Israel soldiers and reacted that way out of fear. So I say Israel is to blame.
However the israeli prim minister is right to blame Iran for sending rockets that may hit tel aviv and therefore they need extra attention.
BTW Welcome back
If they had guns they would use that against Israeli soldiers.
My impression is that people have been afraid of Israel soldiers and reacted that way out of fear. So I say Israel is to blame.
However the israeli prim minister is right to blame Iran for sending rockets that may hit tel aviv and therefore they need extra attention.
BTW Welcome back
Last edited:
This is almost the answer
مخالفت اسرائیل با تحقیق بین***المللی درباره حمله به کشتی کمک***رسانی
رادیو فردا : در حالی که شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل متحد خواهان انجام تحقیقات درباره حمله ارتش اسرائیل به کشتی کمک***رسانی به غزه شده است، اسرائیل روز پنج شنبه فراخوان تحقیق بین***المللی در این باره را رد کرد.
به گزارش خبرگزاری رویترز، ایالات متحده هم که بزرگ***ترین متحد اسرائیل به شمار می***رود از فراخوان اتحادیه اروپا، ترکیه و سازمان ملل به انجام نوعی تحقیق بین***المللی درباره کشته شدن ۹ نفر در جریان حمله نیروهای اسرائیلی به کشتی ترکیه استقبال کرده است.
شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل در نشست روز چهارشنبه خود در ژنو با رای مثبت ۳۲ کشور از میان ۴۷ عضو تصمیم گرفت که کمیسیونی از سوی این شورا برای بررسی رخداد آب***های دریای مدیترانه تعیین شود.
در دو سال اخیر این دومین بار است که شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل با موضوعی مربوط به اسرائیل کمیسیون تحقیق تعیین کرده است.
پس از عملیات ۲۲ روزه سرب مذاب میان ارتش اسرائیل و نیروهای حماس در ژانویه سال ۲۰۰۹ در باریکه غزه نیز شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل کمیسیون تحقیقی را به ریاست قاضی ریچارد گلدستون مامور رسیدگی کرد، و قاضی گلدستون در گزارش نهایی خود اسرائیل و سازمان حماس را به جنایت جنگی متهم کرد.
تکاوران دریایی ارتش اسرائیل سحرگاه روز دوشنبه گذشته در آب***های دریای مدیترانه تلاش کردند مانع از رسیدن شش کشتی کاروان بین***المللی کمک***رسانی به بندر غزه شوند که در جریان این عملیات ۹ نفر از سرنشینان یک کشتی ترکیه کشته و ۴۸ تن زخمی شدند.
بنیامین نتانیاهو، نخست وزیر اسرائیل، شامگاه چهارشنبه در پایان نشست اضطراری دولت خود در بیت***المقدس از رهبران جهانی، رسانه***های بین***المللی و افکارعمومی دنیا که زبان به انتقاد از اسرائیل گشوده***اند ابراز خشم کرد.
آقای نتانیاهو با دفاع از عملکرد نیروهای دریایی ارتش اسرائیل گفت که این کشور «نمی***تواند اجازه دهد که با رسیدن جنگ***افزار به غزه، آن منطقه به بندر و پایگاه موشک***های ایران تبدیل شود، و در چند کیلومتری اورشلیم و تل***آویو، اسرائیل را بیشتر تهدید کنند».
نخست وزیر اسرائیل در حالی سخن از انتقال جنگ***افزار رانده است که به گفته «جنبش غزه را آزاد کنید»،*** این کشتی***ها (سه کشتی باری و سه کشتی مسافربری) حامل بیش از ده هزار تن کمک و حدود ۶۰۰ مسافر از بیش از ۲۰ کشور جهان بوده است.
همچنین گفته می***شود که این ۶۰۰ فعال سیاسی قصد داشته***اند نظر جهانیان را به «محاصره غیرقانونی غزه» به دست اسرائیل جلب کنند.
ارتش اسرائیل روز چهارشنبه فیلم***های تازه***ای را از این حمله دریایی منتشر کرد که حاکی از ضرب و شتم تکاوران این کشور از سوی برخی از سرنشینان کشتی ماوی مرمره،***کشتی ترک، بود. اسرائیل می***گوید پس از چهل دقیقه که تکاوران اسرائیلی جان خود را «در خطر واقعی دیدند» دست به اسلحه بردند.
بولنت ییلدریم، رئیس جمعیت خیریه اسلامی ترکیه، که کشتی ماوی مرمره متعلق به این جمعیت است، شامگاه چهارشنبه در استانبول تایید کرد که یکی از سرنشینان کشتی ترک در جریان درگیری اسلحه کمری یکی از تکاوران اسرائیلی را در اختیار گرفت، اما آن را به دریا پرت کرده است.
مخالفت اسرائیل با تحقیق بین***المللی درباره حمله به کشتی کمک***رسانی
رادیو فردا : در حالی که شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل متحد خواهان انجام تحقیقات درباره حمله ارتش اسرائیل به کشتی کمک***رسانی به غزه شده است، اسرائیل روز پنج شنبه فراخوان تحقیق بین***المللی در این باره را رد کرد.
به گزارش خبرگزاری رویترز، ایالات متحده هم که بزرگ***ترین متحد اسرائیل به شمار می***رود از فراخوان اتحادیه اروپا، ترکیه و سازمان ملل به انجام نوعی تحقیق بین***المللی درباره کشته شدن ۹ نفر در جریان حمله نیروهای اسرائیلی به کشتی ترکیه استقبال کرده است.
شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل در نشست روز چهارشنبه خود در ژنو با رای مثبت ۳۲ کشور از میان ۴۷ عضو تصمیم گرفت که کمیسیونی از سوی این شورا برای بررسی رخداد آب***های دریای مدیترانه تعیین شود.
در دو سال اخیر این دومین بار است که شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل با موضوعی مربوط به اسرائیل کمیسیون تحقیق تعیین کرده است.
پس از عملیات ۲۲ روزه سرب مذاب میان ارتش اسرائیل و نیروهای حماس در ژانویه سال ۲۰۰۹ در باریکه غزه نیز شورای حقوق بشر سازمان ملل کمیسیون تحقیقی را به ریاست قاضی ریچارد گلدستون مامور رسیدگی کرد، و قاضی گلدستون در گزارش نهایی خود اسرائیل و سازمان حماس را به جنایت جنگی متهم کرد.
تکاوران دریایی ارتش اسرائیل سحرگاه روز دوشنبه گذشته در آب***های دریای مدیترانه تلاش کردند مانع از رسیدن شش کشتی کاروان بین***المللی کمک***رسانی به بندر غزه شوند که در جریان این عملیات ۹ نفر از سرنشینان یک کشتی ترکیه کشته و ۴۸ تن زخمی شدند.
بنیامین نتانیاهو، نخست وزیر اسرائیل، شامگاه چهارشنبه در پایان نشست اضطراری دولت خود در بیت***المقدس از رهبران جهانی، رسانه***های بین***المللی و افکارعمومی دنیا که زبان به انتقاد از اسرائیل گشوده***اند ابراز خشم کرد.
آقای نتانیاهو با دفاع از عملکرد نیروهای دریایی ارتش اسرائیل گفت که این کشور «نمی***تواند اجازه دهد که با رسیدن جنگ***افزار به غزه، آن منطقه به بندر و پایگاه موشک***های ایران تبدیل شود، و در چند کیلومتری اورشلیم و تل***آویو، اسرائیل را بیشتر تهدید کنند».
نخست وزیر اسرائیل در حالی سخن از انتقال جنگ***افزار رانده است که به گفته «جنبش غزه را آزاد کنید»،*** این کشتی***ها (سه کشتی باری و سه کشتی مسافربری) حامل بیش از ده هزار تن کمک و حدود ۶۰۰ مسافر از بیش از ۲۰ کشور جهان بوده است.
همچنین گفته می***شود که این ۶۰۰ فعال سیاسی قصد داشته***اند نظر جهانیان را به «محاصره غیرقانونی غزه» به دست اسرائیل جلب کنند.
ارتش اسرائیل روز چهارشنبه فیلم***های تازه***ای را از این حمله دریایی منتشر کرد که حاکی از ضرب و شتم تکاوران این کشور از سوی برخی از سرنشینان کشتی ماوی مرمره،***کشتی ترک، بود. اسرائیل می***گوید پس از چهل دقیقه که تکاوران اسرائیلی جان خود را «در خطر واقعی دیدند» دست به اسلحه بردند.
بولنت ییلدریم، رئیس جمعیت خیریه اسلامی ترکیه، که کشتی ماوی مرمره متعلق به این جمعیت است، شامگاه چهارشنبه در استانبول تایید کرد که یکی از سرنشینان کشتی ترک در جریان درگیری اسلحه کمری یکی از تکاوران اسرائیلی را در اختیار گرفت، اما آن را به دریا پرت کرده است.
Its not just the question over this boat . Israel military has made hurrrendous mistakes since 2006 when they attacked lebenon and bombed a country to ruins over 2 freakin' soldiers..
In any case its the question of numbers and global security. there 1.5 bilion moslems, now scattered all over the world. Israel is a party to 9/11 either way u look at it...how long before U.S.A is gonna thru theae aholes to the sharks?
In any case its the question of numbers and global security. there 1.5 bilion moslems, now scattered all over the world. Israel is a party to 9/11 either way u look at it...how long before U.S.A is gonna thru theae aholes to the sharks?
Ye... China jon.so far its worked for Israel..but now by U.S.A. I's mostly referrung to world corporation mentality and eventually they'll go where the numbers dictate them to go...
Now some people here are discounting this as not our concern as Iranians..quite opposite..IRI & Israel have become lazem o malzoom hamdeege..they are the best reason for the other guys existance and I hate that.
Now some people here are discounting this as not our concern as Iranians..quite opposite..IRI & Israel have become lazem o malzoom hamdeege..they are the best reason for the other guys existance and I hate that.
Under the Shah iran and israel were very good friends.now you see the israelie being hostile is a result of Khomenies comments 30 years ago and the stupid continuense of that reckless policy by the regime. Despite that, it was the Israelies who weregiving us weapons against saddam. if it was'nt for the israelies, our F-4 would have been grounded from 1982 and onwards.
They helped us bigtime.
They helped us bigtime.
Here is the view of Daniel Pipes (A prominent pro-Israel and neoconservative strategist) on the issue:
"Free Gaza" Flotilla Defeats the Israel Defense Forces
by Daniel Pipes
May 31, 2010
Cross-posted from National Review Online
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2010/05/free-gaza-flotilla-defeats-the-israel-defense
One of the most important rules for a strategist is not to be put on the defensive. David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, developed this concept into a doctrine of forward defense that brilliantly served his state in its early years.
Eventually, however, Israel's enemies realized that they could not win a conventional war. Instead of launching planes, tanks, and ships at the Jewish state, they turned to other means – weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, and (most recently) political delegitimization. Delegitimization turns the rules of war upside down: in particular strength is weakness and public opinion has supreme importance.
Israel's command structure, having mastered the old ways of war (the ones that lasted to 1973), has shown utter strategic incompetence at the new ways of war (in place since 1982). The new rules require an agile sense of public relations, which means that a powerful state never physically harms, even inadvertently, its rag-tag political adversaries.
Rachel Corrie has been an albatross around Israel's neck since 2003; today's dead on the seas off Gaza will prove an even worse source of anti-Zionism. Thus did the "armada of hate and violence" achieve its purpose. Thus did the Israelis fall into a trap. (May 31, 2010)
June 1, 2010 update: As sometimes happens, lots of readers were not satisfied with my analysis, this time of the "Free Gaza Flotilla" episode. Some put it nicely:
* "In four short paragraphs you told the entire sad truth of what happened. I wish the solution could be written as succinctly."
* "If a powerful state can never physically harm, even inadvertently, its rag-tag political adversaries, how do you prevent lethal cargo from getting to Gaza? How do you keep a blockade in effect to protect your citizens?"
* "Weren't the Israelis damned if they did and damned if they didn't?
* "Your posting identifies Israel's difficulties, but we know them all too well. I'd like to read an essay or article detailing what Israel could have done, realistically."
Others are more incensed:
* "I am absolutely astounded at what you are saying. What would you have had the Israeli Government do with these ships?"
* "How can you criticize the Israelis without saying what they should have done differently?"
* "Good points. But what would YOU have done instead?
* "So, how should Israel be responding?"
My reply:
(1) I cannot offer a detailed alternative, for I am not on the scene, I lack the relevant knowledge and experience, plus I am a strategist, setting out the broad outlines to win, not a tactician, figuring out implementation in detail. I do know that Israeli soldiers should never have rappelled their way into the trap on the Mavi Marmara. They should have had intelligence about the ship's passengers' readiness for a clash and found some way to avert a bloody confrontation. That might have meant boarding the ship with protective gear; anchoring it at sea; or towing it to an Israeli harbor.
(2) This incident fits a larger pattern, for Palestinians and their supporters are wising up and finding creative ways to impugn Israel in world opinion. Supermarkets in Norway refuse Israeli produce, universities in the United Kingdom break relations with Israeli counterparts, and so on. Palestinians a while back organized a march from Jordan to the Israeli border. Currently, they are boycotting West Bank products made by Israelis. Will Jerusalem finally learn to take this challenge seriously? For some thoughts by specialists on the matter, see my extracts from a thoughtful article by Leslie Susser.
(3) This is not an exclusively Israeli dilemma but one that extends across the Western world. Israel just feels it first and hardest, as so often is the case.
"Free Gaza" Flotilla Defeats the Israel Defense Forces
by Daniel Pipes
May 31, 2010
Cross-posted from National Review Online
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2010/05/free-gaza-flotilla-defeats-the-israel-defense
One of the most important rules for a strategist is not to be put on the defensive. David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, developed this concept into a doctrine of forward defense that brilliantly served his state in its early years.
Eventually, however, Israel's enemies realized that they could not win a conventional war. Instead of launching planes, tanks, and ships at the Jewish state, they turned to other means – weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, and (most recently) political delegitimization. Delegitimization turns the rules of war upside down: in particular strength is weakness and public opinion has supreme importance.
Israel's command structure, having mastered the old ways of war (the ones that lasted to 1973), has shown utter strategic incompetence at the new ways of war (in place since 1982). The new rules require an agile sense of public relations, which means that a powerful state never physically harms, even inadvertently, its rag-tag political adversaries.
Rachel Corrie has been an albatross around Israel's neck since 2003; today's dead on the seas off Gaza will prove an even worse source of anti-Zionism. Thus did the "armada of hate and violence" achieve its purpose. Thus did the Israelis fall into a trap. (May 31, 2010)
June 1, 2010 update: As sometimes happens, lots of readers were not satisfied with my analysis, this time of the "Free Gaza Flotilla" episode. Some put it nicely:
* "In four short paragraphs you told the entire sad truth of what happened. I wish the solution could be written as succinctly."
* "If a powerful state can never physically harm, even inadvertently, its rag-tag political adversaries, how do you prevent lethal cargo from getting to Gaza? How do you keep a blockade in effect to protect your citizens?"
* "Weren't the Israelis damned if they did and damned if they didn't?
* "Your posting identifies Israel's difficulties, but we know them all too well. I'd like to read an essay or article detailing what Israel could have done, realistically."
Others are more incensed:
* "I am absolutely astounded at what you are saying. What would you have had the Israeli Government do with these ships?"
* "How can you criticize the Israelis without saying what they should have done differently?"
* "Good points. But what would YOU have done instead?
* "So, how should Israel be responding?"
My reply:
(1) I cannot offer a detailed alternative, for I am not on the scene, I lack the relevant knowledge and experience, plus I am a strategist, setting out the broad outlines to win, not a tactician, figuring out implementation in detail. I do know that Israeli soldiers should never have rappelled their way into the trap on the Mavi Marmara. They should have had intelligence about the ship's passengers' readiness for a clash and found some way to avert a bloody confrontation. That might have meant boarding the ship with protective gear; anchoring it at sea; or towing it to an Israeli harbor.
(2) This incident fits a larger pattern, for Palestinians and their supporters are wising up and finding creative ways to impugn Israel in world opinion. Supermarkets in Norway refuse Israeli produce, universities in the United Kingdom break relations with Israeli counterparts, and so on. Palestinians a while back organized a march from Jordan to the Israeli border. Currently, they are boycotting West Bank products made by Israelis. Will Jerusalem finally learn to take this challenge seriously? For some thoughts by specialists on the matter, see my extracts from a thoughtful article by Leslie Susser.
(3) This is not an exclusively Israeli dilemma but one that extends across the Western world. Israel just feels it first and hardest, as so often is the case.
the final result
YES
(arash_kaman, Aryo Barzan, Chinaski, Coach, InDaMoneyz, Iran-Parast, IraneMan, keyvan_pars, masoudA, moosh1, OSTAD POOYA, parham79, shahinc,^İNDİANA JONES^)
NO
(Abedzaadeh, AliMR, beystr 2.0, DireStraits, feyenoord, halftime, Iran, k-EYVON, lordofmordor, member of day, Natural, Pahlevoon Nayeb, Pirouz, Pooya, R.BAGGIO, Red Devil's Advocate, Silverton, tajrish, The_Referee, Thinkpad)
YES
(arash_kaman, Aryo Barzan, Chinaski, Coach, InDaMoneyz, Iran-Parast, IraneMan, keyvan_pars, masoudA, moosh1, OSTAD POOYA, parham79, shahinc,^İNDİANA JONES^)
NO
(Abedzaadeh, AliMR, beystr 2.0, DireStraits, feyenoord, halftime, Iran, k-EYVON, lordofmordor, member of day, Natural, Pahlevoon Nayeb, Pirouz, Pooya, R.BAGGIO, Red Devil's Advocate, Silverton, tajrish, The_Referee, Thinkpad)
اسرائیل 'اشتباه' در جریان یورش به کشتی کمک رسانی غزه را پذیرفت
http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/world/2010/07/100712_u03-israel-flotilla-raid-probe.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/world/2010/07/100712_u03-israel-flotilla-raid-probe.shtml
I don't understand why Israelis should hold back so many times. They are damned if they do they are damned if they don't.
Let me command couple of Israeli infantry and mechanized regiments along with IDF close support, and then mutual adversaries (Iran's and Israel's) will know.
Idiots in Israel are trying to fight a war just like US did in Vietnam from Knesset. It does not work that way, military tactitians know how to win a war in battle field, not politician in their manssions. They want to act (including US) politically correct and appease world opinion too much and conduct a war at the same time, thus detrement to the victory.
The world reaction will be the same, mostly in Israel's case anyway.
Let me command couple of Israeli infantry and mechanized regiments along with IDF close support, and then mutual adversaries (Iran's and Israel's) will know.
Idiots in Israel are trying to fight a war just like US did in Vietnam from Knesset. It does not work that way, military tactitians know how to win a war in battle field, not politician in their manssions. They want to act (including US) politically correct and appease world opinion too much and conduct a war at the same time, thus detrement to the victory.
The world reaction will be the same, mostly in Israel's case anyway.