BT jan,
Ballack was, is, and always will be an EXTREEEEEMMEEELLYYY overated player in my oppinion. The German media turned him into this mega star because that golden generation of german football was over, and they needed a hero!
Best thing that ever happened to Germany in this WC was him not being part of it!
I'm sure Mahdi will disagree though!
Ballack was, is, and always will be an EXTREEEEEMMEEELLYYY overated player in my oppinion. The German media turned him into this mega star because that golden generation of german football was over, and they needed a hero!
Best thing that ever happened to Germany in this WC was him not being part of it!
I'm sure Mahdi will disagree though!
Pumpido-Cuciuffo,Brown,Olarticoechea-Enrique,Batista,Ruggeri,Giusti-Maradona-Valdano,Burruchaga
3-4-1-2
was that when he missed the penalty against yugoslavia?
Alright, what attitude? Dude, he had at some point two players only behind him. If you want him to be the player to shout at players and teammates and do whatever, he ain't that type of guy. he is a softspoken guy who if it wasn't for football, would probably be a bricklayer. He isn't that type of guy at Barca either, he is the guy you give the ball to and if he is in the right state of mind, he can kill the opponent. You can't turn the guy into something he isn't. At Barca, the leaders are Valdes, Pique, Puyol and Xavi. they give the orders and tell what to do. Messi isn't. and never was. Further, Maradona's tournament at that age(ok, he was 1-2 years younger) was 82. Look up how he did there.
Jesus, this discussion again. So Argentina's players are more talented? Yes, obviously Maxi Rodriguez is more talented than Iniesta and Xavi, Demichelis is more talented than Pique, Otamendi more talented than Alves and Higuain more talented than Ibra, Bojan, Villa, Eto'o etc.
So difficult to say you are wrong?
Tevez? You mean the guy who took Messi's goal by scoring from offside? Yeah, great tournament he had.
That wasn't Messi's job however. Messi's job was to win the games. The leaders were supposed to be Veron and Mascherano, plus Samuel and Heinze. If Maradona leaves 2 of the leaders out, leaves 1 of them playing against 3 and heinze does what Heinze does, then, well. And Zidane still had Blanc, Deschamps, thuram as co leaders and in 98, he was anything but what you say and the great supernatural leader lost his head in the 2006 final too.
Besides, Messi is 23. Where were those players you talk about with 23? Just because he has been killing everybody on the field left and right, it doesn't mean that you should also forget about his age. In 4 years he will be 27 and maybe by then he will have that personality. Right now however he doesn't and he doesn't even have it at Barca. Again, you are making him something he never was and isn't but something he might grow into.
Yes, that's the point. he was all over the field except where he was supposed to be(wide right or left pressing against fullbacks).
3-4-1-2
was that when he missed the penalty against yugoslavia?
Alright, what attitude? Dude, he had at some point two players only behind him. If you want him to be the player to shout at players and teammates and do whatever, he ain't that type of guy. he is a softspoken guy who if it wasn't for football, would probably be a bricklayer. He isn't that type of guy at Barca either, he is the guy you give the ball to and if he is in the right state of mind, he can kill the opponent. You can't turn the guy into something he isn't. At Barca, the leaders are Valdes, Pique, Puyol and Xavi. they give the orders and tell what to do. Messi isn't. and never was. Further, Maradona's tournament at that age(ok, he was 1-2 years younger) was 82. Look up how he did there.
Jesus, this discussion again. So Argentina's players are more talented? Yes, obviously Maxi Rodriguez is more talented than Iniesta and Xavi, Demichelis is more talented than Pique, Otamendi more talented than Alves and Higuain more talented than Ibra, Bojan, Villa, Eto'o etc.
So difficult to say you are wrong?
Tevez? You mean the guy who took Messi's goal by scoring from offside? Yeah, great tournament he had.
That wasn't Messi's job however. Messi's job was to win the games. The leaders were supposed to be Veron and Mascherano, plus Samuel and Heinze. If Maradona leaves 2 of the leaders out, leaves 1 of them playing against 3 and heinze does what Heinze does, then, well. And Zidane still had Blanc, Deschamps, thuram as co leaders and in 98, he was anything but what you say and the great supernatural leader lost his head in the 2006 final too.
Besides, Messi is 23. Where were those players you talk about with 23? Just because he has been killing everybody on the field left and right, it doesn't mean that you should also forget about his age. In 4 years he will be 27 and maybe by then he will have that personality. Right now however he doesn't and he doesn't even have it at Barca. Again, you are making him something he never was and isn't but something he might grow into.
Yes, that's the point. he was all over the field except where he was supposed to be(wide right or left pressing against fullbacks).
Frankly, I'm baffled by this idea and obsession of having 1 superior leader who does everything. It's scary. Why? Really!
Even MJ had Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Phil Jackson etc. even the most egocentric player of our days Kobe needs Gasol, Artest, Ariza, Fisher...
Why this obsession with having 1 player who has to be a spiritual, material and everything else leader on the field?
Even Uruguay has guys like Lugano and Fucile in the team who share leadership with Forlan, who also has a great coach in Tabarez.
Even MJ had Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Phil Jackson etc. even the most egocentric player of our days Kobe needs Gasol, Artest, Ariza, Fisher...
Why this obsession with having 1 player who has to be a spiritual, material and everything else leader on the field?
Even Uruguay has guys like Lugano and Fucile in the team who share leadership with Forlan, who also has a great coach in Tabarez.
Argentina needed Zanetti, this guy was the leader of the team and the defense that stopped the most dangerous attacking team in the world(Xavi, Inestia, Messi, Pedro,Ibra) in Barca with 10 men and you leave him off the team for that useless Heinze, Demechlies and Otamendi who were shit in defense? come on! The team had a crappiest defense out of the last 8 teams and they paid for it. and it not Messi's job to get the ball from his own half and dribble 11 players and score a goal, he is great but he is not Jesus Christ and can't walk on water. Too bad Messi picked Argentina over Spain, or we would be seeing total magic now in the world cup that we will never see. Messi-Xavi-Iniesta-Alonso-Villa-Pique-Puyol-Casilias-Ramos-Sergio-Torres! WOW!!
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Good points. However Messi did fall short (in terms of being compared to the all time greats) not in Saturdays game, but in Barcelona's semi final with Inter Milan. Thats where he had a complete team around him but they got knocked out. OK had the referee done his job right over the 2 legs, Barca would have gone through despite Inter's efforts, but still Messi was least effective in those games.
First leg, yes. Second leg, he had an incredible shot saved by an incredible dive of Julio Cesar and I'm willing to bet that no other keeper would have saved that, and he also served Bojan a goal on a platter, where he failed to score with a header.
Even against Chelsea in the 2nd leg, what people seem to forget is that he was the guy who gave Iniesta the pass. Most other players(read Ronaldo) would have tried to score themselves, but he saw his teammate.
Which takes us to the next point that because of the way he grew up as a player and the school he went through, he needs more his teammates in most cases than they might even need him.
Even against Chelsea in the 2nd leg, what people seem to forget is that he was the guy who gave Iniesta the pass. Most other players(read Ronaldo) would have tried to score themselves, but he saw his teammate.
Which takes us to the next point that because of the way he grew up as a player and the school he went through, he needs more his teammates in most cases than they might even need him.
Yes and I point those 2 instances of the second leg out to those who dismiss Messi, but as one of his biggest fans, I think in order to be seen in the same class of Maradonna, he should have done more than that. However he is still very young and in terms of age/achievement comparison, he is ahead of Maradonna. But not all players get better with age; Michael Owens peak was when he was 18! and Ithink we probably have seen the best of christiano Ronaldo. we shall see with Messi.
As much as people compare Messi and Maradona, in a few ways they're actually pretty different. Maradona played deeper for Argentina/Napoli and was as much of a playmaker as he was a goal-scorer. He not only finished plays well, he was pivotal in getting play started. Messi has more of a reliance on players getting the ball to him.
It's all about attitude. This World Cup will define Messi's career. He will either go back to Barcelona, train harder, work more on free kicks and his shooting and become an even better player, or he won't.
The difference with Messi and Owen is that Messi in Argentina has way too many critics in the press, which he doesn't in Spain and also, he has a certain chip on his shoulder, because he had to get through a lot of hard times and always had to prove himself. So, he has to prove himself again and still has 4 years left to do so.
Further, there's a difference in having Gerard Houillier and Pep Guardiola as manager.
Ronaldo, I don't know. Ronaldo's major problem is his attitude...it serves him at times well too because he is confident, but his attitude and arrogance are at times his obstacle.
The difference with Messi and Owen is that Messi in Argentina has way too many critics in the press, which he doesn't in Spain and also, he has a certain chip on his shoulder, because he had to get through a lot of hard times and always had to prove himself. So, he has to prove himself again and still has 4 years left to do so.
Further, there's a difference in having Gerard Houillier and Pep Guardiola as manager.
Ronaldo, I don't know. Ronaldo's major problem is his attitude...it serves him at times well too because he is confident, but his attitude and arrogance are at times his obstacle.
His best games in this tournament were the ones he had Veron in the team, who got him the ball. Really, leaving Veron out, no matter how not fit or whatever he was, was the crucial mistake.
He left Cambiasso and Banega out, because he wanted to play Veron, which to me made sense, because Veron was the group's leader. But then he left Veron out too, which made leaving Cambiasso and Banega out even more stupid.
He left Cambiasso and Banega out, because he wanted to play Veron, which to me made sense, because Veron was the group's leader. But then he left Veron out too, which made leaving Cambiasso and Banega out even more stupid.
What joke this guy was! For years I tried to tell lajoka clowns that scoring in laliga means shit, its more worthless than scoring in IPL and not all the hollywooding in the world is gonna make it impressive.
:e now has proved that he was nothing but a star of a shit league with no real credentials in being called a superstar let alone a successor to great maradonna. As opposed to maradonna he has yet to show up for a big game in his entire life!
Don't any ISP clown here ever compare him to maradonna ever again!
:e now has proved that he was nothing but a star of a shit league with no real credentials in being called a superstar let alone a successor to great maradonna. As opposed to maradonna he has yet to show up for a big game in his entire life!
Don't any ISP clown here ever compare him to maradonna ever again!
Aabgoosht
4 Servings
500 grams lamb or beef
1 cup of chicken peas (Nokhod)
1 cup of dried white beans
1 medium onion, chopped
2 medium potatos, peeled
2 medium tomatos
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon turmeric & black pepper
Directions:
Wash the meat and put it in a medium size pot, half filled with water, add the peas and beans, the onion, salt, turmeric and pepper and let it cook for 1-2 hours on medium-low heat.
Add the potatos and the tomatos (they get too soft too soon if you add them at the beginning), and let it cook on low heat until all the ingredients are soft.
Take the pot out, separate the juice from the ingredients and pour the ingredients in a bowl and using a potato masher (goosht-koob) or something similar, finely mash the whole mixture. Taste a small portion and add more salt/pepper if needed. When the mixture has a smooth texture, it can be served.
The juice (Aab) is also served in separate bowls. The idea is to mix it with small pieces of Iranian bread (or pita bread or any kind of Middle Eastern breads).
4 Servings
500 grams lamb or beef
1 cup of chicken peas (Nokhod)
1 cup of dried white beans
1 medium onion, chopped
2 medium potatos, peeled
2 medium tomatos
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon turmeric & black pepper
Directions:
Wash the meat and put it in a medium size pot, half filled with water, add the peas and beans, the onion, salt, turmeric and pepper and let it cook for 1-2 hours on medium-low heat.
Add the potatos and the tomatos (they get too soft too soon if you add them at the beginning), and let it cook on low heat until all the ingredients are soft.
Take the pot out, separate the juice from the ingredients and pour the ingredients in a bowl and using a potato masher (goosht-koob) or something similar, finely mash the whole mixture. Taste a small portion and add more salt/pepper if needed. When the mixture has a smooth texture, it can be served.
The juice (Aab) is also served in separate bowls. The idea is to mix it with small pieces of Iranian bread (or pita bread or any kind of Middle Eastern breads).
well you can say the same thing about Rooney and Torres.
Also David Villa scored in that shit la liga and is the scoring leader in World Cup too.
But yes you can't compare him to Maradona but not because of skill level. He just doesn't have that leadership gene to carry the whole team. With Diego he would have even convinced his mom to go to bed with satan if it was needed for the victory, Messi can never be that.
Also David Villa scored in that shit la liga and is the scoring leader in World Cup too.
But yes you can't compare him to Maradona but not because of skill level. He just doesn't have that leadership gene to carry the whole team. With Diego he would have even convinced his mom to go to bed with satan if it was needed for the victory, Messi can never be that.
This is what i tried to point out earlier in this thread. I even lined up some crucial losses of all those great football players in much more important games than this one in 1/4 of a wc. Maradona was degraded to a nothing in 1990 final game against Germany by one single physicall defender that you certainly know: Guido Buchwald. Germans still call him Diego lol
Hell this little guy lost a football game at the age of 23 against a team that i doubt would have lost a football game on that day, regardless of the opponent. They were well prepared and they were hot and they responded from get go.
Let me give you another example: MJ is the best BBall player this world has ever had. As he was drafted by the Bulls, Chicago was the worst team in the league being used to losing for decades. They used to play infront of 8000 spectators in their home games, they were the NJ Nets of those times. You know what? Even with MJ the Bulls still kept losing! He made 40 points and they still lost, he made 50 and more and they still lost and that was the point the Bulls organization realized a Jordan alone was not enough. The same goes out to Messi, people have seen this kid can play no one can deny it, i wont deny it either and i am a guy who never liked the argentine because i dont like the mentality but its not the point now. The point is we all know what this guy is capable of, we only have to realize that he is just a human who can have off days just like the best of the best always had and will always have. Just like that: OFF DAYS.
I have seen Zidane play HORRIBLE matches even as an established star. Really, who cares that Messi has lost a football game? Btw, who says he lost it? Argentina lost it, there were another 10 argentine on the field who had enough to do with themselves and the germans to support Messi and Messi like any other star player needs help to be able to help. This is not Tennis nor Bowling. Its football.
Hell this little guy lost a football game at the age of 23 against a team that i doubt would have lost a football game on that day, regardless of the opponent. They were well prepared and they were hot and they responded from get go.
Let me give you another example: MJ is the best BBall player this world has ever had. As he was drafted by the Bulls, Chicago was the worst team in the league being used to losing for decades. They used to play infront of 8000 spectators in their home games, they were the NJ Nets of those times. You know what? Even with MJ the Bulls still kept losing! He made 40 points and they still lost, he made 50 and more and they still lost and that was the point the Bulls organization realized a Jordan alone was not enough. The same goes out to Messi, people have seen this kid can play no one can deny it, i wont deny it either and i am a guy who never liked the argentine because i dont like the mentality but its not the point now. The point is we all know what this guy is capable of, we only have to realize that he is just a human who can have off days just like the best of the best always had and will always have. Just like that: OFF DAYS.
I have seen Zidane play HORRIBLE matches even as an established star. Really, who cares that Messi has lost a football game? Btw, who says he lost it? Argentina lost it, there were another 10 argentine on the field who had enough to do with themselves and the germans to support Messi and Messi like any other star player needs help to be able to help. This is not Tennis nor Bowling. Its football.