"The west has picked a fight with Iran that it cannot win"

Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#21
RoozbehAzadi, you are right about what you say, except, if there is another terrorist attack, and Iran is somehow linked to it, the people will rally behind the us president and after what happend in France, Frace will certainly support it so will German and others. And if Iranian government is weekend or changed, the Iraq problems will dissapear over night.

Dr. AN is at least an honest man who states the policy of his government and the akhoonds. Perhaps it is the best thing that could have happend to iran. Only time will tell as these akhoonds might cause a disintegration of Iran.
 

mowj

National Team Player
May 14, 2005
4,739
0
#22
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif] This means strengthening every argument in the hands of those Iranians who do not want nuclear weapons or Israel eliminated, who crave a secular state and good relations with the west. No such argument embraces name-calling, sabre-rattling, sanctions or bombs. [/FONT]
I think this policy would have been good when Khatami was in charge but the neo-cons decided to make a big favour to their counterpart neo-thugs in Iran and include Iran in part of their axis of evil jumbo mumbo and that realy was a big set back to constitutionalist inside Iran. Now, they are getting their axis of evil.
This article is nice and all but fails to take the reality in Iran into an account. Thanks to IR, Iranians are neither motivated by religious nor nationality but they all have one in common, they are disgusted and despised the current regim. Now, if this says when the going get tough, people ralley around AN and militarist religious fascist, I say we are going to be surprised. This is not late 1350s and early 1360s any more.
 

AMirza

IPL Player
Mar 19, 2004
2,996
1
#23
This is a great response to the article by a great Persian - Sheda Vasseghi


Dear Editor:

The Guardian never fails to amaze me. Mr. Jenkins’ January 18, 2006, article entitled "The west has picked a fight with Iran that it cannot win," at a crucial time in world history amazes me. Either Mr. Jenkins is getting paid by the lobbyists for the Islamic Republic of Iran or he is completely ignorant of the issues in Middle East. Given the number of logical and well-informed political writers around the globe, I am dumbfounded as to why The Guardian constantly publishes such garbage.

First, the title of this article is troubling. Mr. Jenkins obviously doesn’t understand that it’s not that the west cannot win this battle, it "must" win against Islamism. For 27 years, majority of the Iranian people have been telling the world about the new ideological fascism having taken their rich country hostage and how it will be the world’s problem in the near future. The near future has arrived. Iran was "a serious country" prior to 1979, but since the Islamic Revolution and the rise of the incompetent and backwards mullacracy, the country is falling apart because of mismanagement, embezzlement, corruption, poverty, unemployment, enforcement of unrealistic and backwards Sharia law, and collapse of its industrial and technological advancements.

Mr. Jenkins actually goes on to pose the following dilemma for the West – the West should decide whether it will support those Iranians who are anti-Israel, pro-Islamism, and pro-nuclear buildup versus those who support the rights of Israel, secularism, and anti-nuclear proliferation. Is this simple and childlike statement truly considered a strategic dilemma?

As for Iran gaining access to nuclear weapons, the world is not concerned about Iran itself becoming nuclear but rather the Islamic Republic becoming nuclear. The enemy of the world in which Mr. Jenkins and I live is the Islamic Republic not the American government and its allies. There is no "hypocrisy" – we are talking about a regime that believes in Armageddon and the 12th Imam or the Messiah rising to punish all non-believers. Non-believers are those who are not Muslim. This is the Islamic Republic’s belief and culture on which it makes its policies. This is why the Islamic Republic has systematically tried for 27 years to destroy Iranian nationalism. The Iranian pre-Islamic culture and heritage is its number one enemy. That’s why such a regime "has ‘no right’ to nuclear deference."

Confrontation with Iran may not stop the lunatics in Tehran, but a regime change will and is the only solution. With a regime change in a country that is currently using its oil money to fund terrorism, anti-Semitism, Islamic fundamentalism, and abuse of basic human rights, you will see an immediate drop in global terrorism and a return to some normalcy and balance in such a volatile region.

Mr. Jenkins claims that the regime in "Tehran is not a Saddamist dictatorship or a Taliban autocracy." I don’t know what more that devil of a regime has to do for a supposed "intellect" like Mr. Jenkins to understand that the mullacracy in Tehran is a theocratic dictatorship. The power is in the hands of a small percentage of Islamists, mullahs, and Basijis. The rest of the Iranians are held hostage and soon the free, secular, and democratic world will be at their mercy too if governments and general public read and follow Mr. Jenkins’ idiotic advice.

By the way, Mr. Jenkins advises that if we cannot stop the bad guy from "buying a gun," then we should befriend him. Mr. Jenkins was obviously NOT told there is no friendship or peace with the devil. Destroying Islamic fascism and a government such as the Islamic Republic of Iran is the only way to take the gun away from the bad guy.
 

beystr

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
942
0
iran
#24
PN jon,

Hope this won't sound like roze khooni but let me try.....

I love our country enough that I decided to live and work here and not being a wealthy person its to my every benefit to have Iran stay in status quo....however I have come to watch bastardization of our country minute by minute ,its much like a bad father sleeping with its daughter every night and telling her how much he loves her...u know better how this girl is going to be....somebody with no self esteem and no confidence and totally scared to live that house....so she needs outside intervention.....and sooner the better....its no excuse to say that since there is corruption in the police force that this house should not be raided...and if this girl is desroyed anyway..at least her childern can hope for a better future...

and Pn jon....much of our hertiage is being desteroyed everyday thru poor management.....one of the world's few saltwater forrest in Gheshm is being destroyed ...not intentionally but becuz of faghr.......I can write pages of my own observation reg. this.....its in this kind of situation that not only we neeed outside help but we need a lot of it.......its gotten to a point IRI does not even remotely care or even scared of its own people...veghahat has gotten to a point that IRI shows its own house in a nightlly comedy and make its own people watch themselves in the mirror and then tells them ..so what? what u going to do about it ? knowing full well that like that molasted girl chances of revolt is very little and if she even thinks about it..she'll be beaten to hell over it...........now....kar be jaie reside that the psycho dad has gotten so confident that now hes daring the outside or other's daughters........so what or how should the neighborhood deal with this hayoola?
 
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Bijans

Legionnaire
Oct 18, 2002
6,654
3
San Diego, CA
#25
Pahlevoon Nayeb said:
Agha beyster,

I am a part of what you phrased the “peace loving crowd.” I oppose a military action by ANY foreign power because I don’t want to see Esfahan – and along with it hundreds of years of history – turned into rubble. I also don’t want to see thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of Iranians die under the guise of “war on terror.”

Just because someone is a part of the “peace loving crowd” does not mean they support AN and Co. and just because someone supports a military action on Iran does not mean they love Iran.

For example, when someone says things like “I am counting on the Gheyrat of our hamvatans to not let Iran become another Iraq” they are spewing irresponsible words they cannot possibly backup; at best, hoping for a milk and honey scenario of a quick removal of IRI.

Chances are extremely high that an attack on Iran is not only NOT going to result in a quick exit by IRI but also that it will be the regular Iranians – along with the entire Iranian heritage and sovereignty – that will go up in smoke.

Attacking Iran – prompted by AN shooting off his mouth – will very likely only result in unforeseen cataclysmic events that would deny anyone who loves Iran even a country, let alone a free one.

AN and Mesbah Yazdi exist only because Bush and Rice also do and vice versa. Remove one from thee equation and the other will naturally disappear as well.
I am totally with you on this PN!!!
 

AMirza

IPL Player
Mar 19, 2004
2,996
1
#26
I love our country enough that I decided to live and work here and not being a wealthy person its to my every benefit to have Iran stay in status quo....however I have come to watch bastardization of our country minute by minute ,its much like a bad father sleeping with its daughter every night and telling her how much he loves her...u know better how this girl is going to be....somebody with no self esteem and no confidence and totally scared to live that house....so she needs outside intervention.....and sooner the better....its no excuse to say that since there is corruption in the police force that this house should not be raided...and if this girl is desroyed anyway..at least her childern can hope for a better future...

and Pn jon....much of our hertiage is being desteroyed everyday thru poor management.....one of the world's few saltwater forrest in Gheshm is being destroyed ...not intentionally but becuz of faghr.......I can write pages of my own observation reg. this.....its in this kind of situation that not only we neeed outside help but we need a lot of it.......its gotten to a point IRI does not even remotely care or even scared of its own people...veghahat has gotten to a point that IRI shows its own house in a nightlly comedy and make its own people watch themselves in the mirror and then tells them ..so what? what u going to do about it ? knowing full well that like that molasted girl chances of revolt is very little and if she even thinks about it..she'll be beaten to hell over it...........now....kar be jaie reside that the psycho dad has gotten so confident that now hes daring the outside or other's daughters........so what or how should the neighborhood deal with this hayoola?

Great post amoo beystr
 

tajrish

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
3,037
197
57
San Diego, California
#27
beystr said:
PN jon,

Hope this won't sound like roze khooni but let me try.....

I love our country enough that I decided to live and work here and not being a wealthy person its to my every benefit to have Iran stay in status quo....however I have come to watch bastardization of our country minute by minute ,its much like a bad father sleeping with its daughter every night and telling her how much he loves her...u know better how this girl is going to be....somebody with no self esteem and no confidence and totally scared to live that house....so she needs outside intervention.....and sooner the better....its no excuse to say that since there is corruption in the police force that this house should not be raided...and if this girl is desroyed anyway..at least her childern can hope for a better future...

and Pn jon....much of our hertiage is being desteroyed everyday thru poor management.....one of the world's few saltwater forrest in Gheshm is being destroyed ...not intentionally but becuz of faghr.......I can write pages of my own observation reg. this.....its in this kind of situation that not only we neeed outside help but we need a lot of it.......its gotten to a point IRI does not even remotely care or even scared of its own people...veghahat has gotten to a point that IRI shows its own house in a nightlly comedy and make its own people watch themselves in the mirror and then tells them ..so what? what u going to do about it ? knowing full well that like that molasted girl chances of revolt is very little and if she even thinks about it..she'll be beaten to hell over it...........now....kar be jaie reside that the psycho dad has gotten so confident that now hes daring the outside or other's daughters........so what or how should the neighborhood deal with this hayoola?
Great post Beyster joon. In haroom zadeha don't even consider the voice of the Iranian people as any point of concern anymore.
 

beystr

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
942
0
iran
#28
Thanks Amirza , Tajrish jon

I tellu, last week a freind showed me a book he had just bought , I think written by a local writer titeld something like" Chera gharb pishraft kard va Iran Aghab Mand".......then he showed me the pages that the author wrote as clearly as daylight that the Arab invation "VA Peydayesh Eslam" was the main reason Iran is a 3rd world country...u beleive thats a book sold in Tehran bookstores? I mean thats how cocky the IRI has become........its kind o funny and hopefulluy gets my point across.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#29
dearest beystr,

Your great post is very touching. I hate IR more than anyone else or as much as possible, although, I gave them a chance at the begining of Khatami presidency..

I have been against invasion for so long, but I live outside of Iran. At times, talking to people in Iran, and thinking about barbarity of the regime, I have thought invasion is the way to go.

At the sametime, one has to realize that US takes advantage of every place it takes over as case of Iraq where Bush put bastard Paul Bremer in power so that he would make Iraq a privatization heaven for the world. Paul Bremer had to approve everything that Iraqi companies imported. When there were money to buy concrete or other components, he would order it from outside the country and pay 10 times for it. Why? Because he wanted to bankrupt the Iraqi factories to the point that they would sell it dirt cheap to the US and other foreign companies. On top of that in his constitution, these foreign companies could own 100% of the companies and could take their money out of Iraq at anytime they wanted. In the case of new consitution, he wanted the contracts signed in the interim period to last 100 years. Then he changed it to 40 years. The news got around to Iraqis as even the Iraqi government in charge was against it and of course the Shiits had to sign to it too.

On the day Paul Bremer had a meeting for top us investors and CEO to meet in the US the Iraqis hung 4 american civilians from the bridge and then it was the beginning of major insurgencies in Iraq. People in these factories had joined the insurgencies.

So, basically Paurl Bremer wanted to give the US private companies ownership of all the Iraqi industry at dirt cheap prices. Oil was the only thing that he could not touch. Think about that, Iraqis would never own much else if the inurgencies had not happend. US did the same to Bolivia when their economy went down and they needed to borrow money. Now, Bolivia is the poorest country in the world with most in the poverty. US companies and other foreign companies own their industry even drinking water, yes even drinking water which the country's people are dependent on.

I hate IR as much as it is possible. It is a government of terror. A government that kills and torutures its people in a way seldom seen in the world of terror and fear.

The question is

1) in the case of invasion, can we make sure Iran becomes democrcy and belong to Iranians?

2) will Iranians be better off under invasion or imprisoned under IR?

3) who will steal more from the people, the invaders or IR? Most likely IR, LOL.

It is a tough question to answer, but one that will have its path wave regardless of what most of us think, I bellieve. I dont think the world can bare IR for too many years to come, espeically under threat of nuclear bomb.
 
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a123321r

National Team Player
Oct 27, 2002
5,527
0
bradford, england
#30
lol it's always the same three camps..

the iri supporters.. ashtar, reza and chief who support whatever iri says or does (didn't really require naming)

the shahis and all the others who have been in the u.s. or europe so long that if there was a war with iran .. they would be on the u.s. side just so that they can show they hate iri.. they identify a lot more with the country they reside in or at least the west in general than iran and will not accept any argument as to the real motivation of the u.s. etc. no need for names.. this group ofcourse will always identify themselves as iranian and a group who are very proud of their heritage.. but really they don't identify with it at all!

and then there's the objective group that doesn't belong to any particular group or anything.. they just want to see a free iran.. free from iri.. free from the west.. free to practice islam if they want but also free to have any other religion or none at all.. they don't want bombs on their own people because they still think of iran as their home.. they don't submit to any one ideology but are actively seeking the best way to benefit iran and IRANIANS (not just the ones living in the west).. people like PN, bijan, iranpaak, westi.. etc..

anyways.. i haven't seen a single person from any of these groups change their mind or stance all this while.. although shahinc sometimes switches between 2nd and 3rd group although really belongs to the 3rd group.. but it certainly makes interesting reading..

thanks for all the articles! :)
 

beystr

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
942
0
iran
#31
Lord jon,

going to bed ,I'll have more to say tommoro but doesn't Liaghat of the people count for anything? howcome s.korea Japan and so many others did so well under occupation and with much less resources of say Iraq and with even greater destruction ?

And then again there are people like Abouzar who are looking for a daste a ghaib or something to help em out while they ain't got no clue whatsoever of the size of the disaster... afterall they ain't have to put up with it....
 
Oct 1, 2004
8,122
205
#33
beystr said:
Lord jon,

going to bed ,I'll have more to say tommoro but doesn't Liaghat of the people count for anything? howcome s.korea Japan and so many others did so well under occupation and with much less resources of say Iraq and with even greater destruction ?

And then again there are people like Abouzar who are looking for a daste a ghaib or something to help em out while they ain't got no clue whatsoever of the size of the disaster... afterall they ain't have to put up with it....
Probably because countries like Japan and Korea were actually quite well developed before the respective wars in their country.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#34
beystr said:
I tellu, last week a freind showed me a book he had just bought , I think written by a local writer titeld something like" Chera gharb pishraft kard va Iran Aghab Mand".......then he showed me the pages that the author wrote as clearly as daylight that the Arab invation "VA Peydayesh Eslam" was the main reason Iran is a 3rd world country...u beleive thats a book sold in Tehran bookstores? I mean thats how cocky the IRI has become........its kind o funny and hopefulluy gets my point across.
If you are talking about Dr. Kazim Alamdari's book titled "Chera Iran Aghab Mand va Gharb Pish raft" the author actually rejects the notion that Islam was the reason for Iran falling behind. The idea you mentioned is put forward by Mirfetros, which the author refutes in his book.
Next time you see your friend, get the book and read chapter 10 ; Avamel e Roshd va Ofule Andeshe Dar Iran.
 

Pahlevoon Nayeb

National Team Player
Oct 17, 2002
4,138
0
Poshteh Kooh
#35
AMirza said:
Dear PN

First of all - It's time to rethink your positions - when Ashtar starts liking your posts.

Second - Could it be that some of those who oppose actions against Iran to be in fact IRI supporters ?

You want to make us look like pro death war mongers who can't wait to see Esfahan destroyed - fine - but don't forget; you certainly look like one who enjoys the staus quo, doing it.

Dear Amirza and RoozbehAzadi,

First, anyone who ventures to debate a point either makes sure that his/her arguments stand on their own or he/she better stay away from engaging in the argument in the first place.

Whether ashtar agrees with me or not doesn’t make my point any more or less valid. We each are responsible for what we have to say and stand for.

Second, yes, we could in fact have a situation where an IRI supporter would oppose actions against IRI – not Iran, as they are IRI supporters and, by definition, don’t have Iran’s best interests at heart -- but then again an IRI supporter is, by definition, also not a part of the “peace loving crowd.” By definition, again, this is so because IRI’s whole existence relies on confrontation and war-making.

Finally, I don’t want to make you look one way or the other. It is you who identify yourself with the pro-war crowd.

Similarly, whereas my position looks to be that of one happy with the status-quo, I identify myself with point of view that sees a grave danger lying in the wake; one that could potentially bring the entire life on the PLANET to a grinding halt.

As odious as IRI is, the way to get rid of them is not through giving the most fascist elements of IRI an excuse, first for existence and then for solidifying their grip on power.

Whether you agree or not, up until AN became the President, the Mullahs had already mellowed out their repressive policies. From hearing Quran and Rozeh Khuni on a 24/7 basis of Khomeini era, we saw musical bands springing up everywhere, women venturing to new, more daring clothing, and SOME freedoms were gained.

Now, as small as these first baby steps were – pathetic if you compared the situation to that of, say, Sweden – they were indigenous Iranian steps. These steps were taken by our young generation who had basically had enough of the Mullahs’ black repression. To get to freedom, Iran NEEDS to take these steps.

But, because these were IRANIAN steps, the end result, whatever the outcome, would have at least not been as dangerous to the very existence of our nation.

Today, Iraq stands at the brink of a disastrous civil war. The Shiites, Sunnis, and the Kurds all have their own sectarian and tribal agenda and the polarization is now almost complete. What do YOU think will happen to Iran if a cataclysmic American attack simply tears apart the country at the seam? Do you think the Azarbaijani, Khuzestani, and Baluchi separatists will simply sit by and enjoy the show, or do you think that by making alliances with the invading forces they will try and solidify the American co-operation for separating from Iran?

Currently, the Mullahs enjoy, reportedly, a 500,000 strong Basiji and Sepah force. Add to that the battle tested, fresh Iranian forces. Not only Iran has already warned that ANY act of aggression would be considered an act of war, but for reasons already mentioned, the AN crowd is just itching for a confrontation to speed up the return of Imam Zaman – as well as increasing repression, all in the name of war.

Based on a Nuclear Posture study conducted by US government, the scenario would be very similar to what someone posted earlier:

- Iran is attacked
- Iran responds by overwhelming the tired, weary American army in Iraq.
- George like-AN-on-a-mission-from-god Bush, will have no choice but to attack Iranian population centers with nuclear bombs
- Mullahs – who we have already established are traitors – instead of capitulating will continue to fight, killing hundreds of thousands of Iranians as well as destroying our cultural cities in the process
- All this will happen before Iranians ready to topple IRI – IF they are ready – has even got a chance to organize, let alone topple the regime.
- No one knows what will happen next: world wide depression to make 1929 look like a blip on the radar, civil war, Iranian disintegration, blood bath in the Middle East as well as the entire world to make WWI look like a walk in the park, and even the start of the next and final world war.

The anti war, anti-Bush crowd I know don’t oppose the war because they are grass-smoking, la di da hippies; they are responsible, patriotic Iranians and Americans who realize the grave danger lying in the wake.

The situation in Iran is bad and the Americans can help by ENGAGING the mullahs rather than taking a belligerent stance towards Iran, which will ultimately hurt the WEAKEST link in Iranian politics – the people – instead of Mullah Rats.

And, engaging does not mean becoming buddy buddies or even friendly. Engagement simply means talking to the Mullahs so that, first the situation is defused and second, that the Mullahs feel Americans as well as the rest of the world breathing down their necks.

The very people who started this movement can THEN continue demanding more and more from IRI, knowing that Mullahs are now being watched and monitored.

Otherwise, this John Wayne, bring-em-on stance will only strengthens the hands of AN and the most reactionary, repressive elements in Iran as well potentially destroy Iran in the process.
 

Pahlevoon Nayeb

National Team Player
Oct 17, 2002
4,138
0
Poshteh Kooh
#36
lordofmordor said:
dear pahlavoon,

Somethings cannot be controlled. If AN continues what he is doing, and if there is another terrorist attack in America that can be blamed on Iran through their support of a group, then you will see America attacking Iran, most likely with the help of Europe.

Not too many countries are too happy with Iranian government and most have muslim population to worry about.

I am not in support of an invasion but also am not going to keep a blind eye saying that it will never happen. The world will not be able to handle another big terrorist attack in one of the western capitals.

At the sametime, I am also not stupid enough to say that Iran can fight the west, like regimes supporters do.

At the end of the day, this current regime acts as if they are the strongest in the world, and becasue they support the arab allah, they should rule the world. If they continue their way, and if Iranian people dont overthrow them in time, you might see an invasion.

Now, one can argue for and against the invasion and there are not many valid points to both.

But I dont bellieve Iran invasion will be like Iraq. Too many Iranians feel imprisoned by the IR and will not fight. It will be basijis and pasdaran fighting. But dont forget many people hate these animals and are looking for any chance to get revenge of them. So, unlike Iraq, there are not going to be able to hide in many places without being reported. And the army, they have been treated like crap for last 3 decades.

Lord jon,

Unless someone attacks you, your friends and family, or your house, controlling whether you have to pick a fight is ALWAYS a choice.

Israeli exaggerations aside, by all accounts, the earliest Iran can have ONE bomb is 3 years from now. And, even that is possible if Iran masters the know-how at break-neck speed and if there are no IEAI inspectors watching.

What you and I don’t hear in mainstream media is that, based on the additional safety protocol Iran voluntarily accepted 2 years ago, IAEI has had cameras recording every movement at every Iranian nuclear facility. Only yesterday, Iranian officials told Europeans that they are ready to approve the additional protocol if the EU would come back to the negotiation table. In this regard, the spokesman for Iran's Supreme Council on National Security, Ali Aqamohammadi, had this to say:

"We don’t intend to produce all the nuclear fuel we need, but at the same time we shall not abandon the full nuclear cycle, something that is our natural and legal rights"

As odious and horrible as IRI is, to me it sounds like they are willing to allow the additional protocol to continue. So, there’s one area that, if US goes to war, it does so out of choice, not force.

Second, whereas Iran spends a considerable sum on supporting the Hezbollah, never has an Iranian been involved in an act of terrorism. Again, there is no excuse there for W to invade Iran.

Another big terrorist attack on a Western Capital will very likely not have been initiated by Iran as the previous ones were not.

Third, not being happy with the Iranian government does not give anyone the green light to invade Iran where, Iran has no offensive posture towards any other nation and has never in modern times invaded a neighboring country.

Fourth, whereas I agree that AN should shut the hell up and get on with the job, other than fighting Israel’s war, any attack on Iran would be a war of choice and therefore an aggression under international law.

Lastly, the only good reason for many supporting this war is the hope that IRI will be toppled, as you have asserted. But, don’t discount a huge Basiji and Sepah force waiting to die to get their hands on the promised 72 virgins in heaven.

Even if as you say the PEOPLE don’t want to fight Americans, these thugs do. And, before people can do anything, even if they were organized, which they are not, the situation can get out of hand and destroy Iran rather than IRI.

By the way, what you referred to as the Arab Allah is the same as our Ahura Mazda, our Jesus, and our Yahweh.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#37
Pahlavoon Jan,

Iran does indirectly supports terrorism. For example, supporting hezbollah in Lebanon. They also support insuregencies in Iraq (right or wrong is not the point here). Afghanistan. France muslim uprising. Iran has been against the banning of religous signs in schools and is certainly supporting, promoting and perhaps directing the opponents.

And dont forget about all the trainiing hezbollah and other groups get in Iran.

Also, there are groups in Iran such as basijis and others who independently do operations outside of Iran who the Iranian government except some in the clergy will know about.

Looking at it unbiasely, Iran is the number problem country in the world.
 

a123321r

National Team Player
Oct 27, 2002
5,527
0
bradford, england
#38
lordofmorodor iran is the number one problem from u.s. or isreal's point of view....

say for example from germany's point of view.. iran is not a threat..

so iran being a problem is not looking at the subject "unbiasely" as you put it!
 
Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#39
A-mirza jan,welcome back ,i wouldn't bother to answer gaurdian anyhow ,they have losen the credibilities , no-one really take them seroiusly .
 

AMirza

IPL Player
Mar 19, 2004
2,996
1
#40
Thanx Payan Jaan -
I will do what I can - when I can -
Guardian is a business - but it can be influenced both ways !!
Isn't this guy the same idiot who wrote the "Devil Empire" a couple of months ago.

Dear PN -
I can't tell you enough how much I dsiagree with your assessment of baby step progress, considering cosmetics such as concerts and movies as progress. I am just not going to get into another book long debate with you - and the only reason I have done it in the past was for the benefit of many other members. Well - thank god I do not see that need anymore.

As for you - I am sure you love Iran as much as any of us and will do what you can to help - when you can.